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The best part about the class, aside from the fuel economy, is that a manual transmission is generally available throughout the model's trims rather than being relegated only to the bare bones.
Well, if we can hang onto both classes for widespread manual selection, I will be perfectly happy.
Alas, I think we are going to lose the compacts before too much longer....if only I could get an ironclad promise from Honda and Mazda (and perhaps Ford) to keep the manuals rolling out of the factories, I could maybe forego the rest of the automakers......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Why? My Integra has about the same power and weight and would be fine cruising at 2,000 rpm at 60. I had a 74 hp VW Quantum (1982) that was geared for 2100 rpm at 60. It had no problems. I had to down shift to 4th very rarely on very steep hills
I don't mind shifting out of 6th, though. 6th should be a tall cruising gear.
So for example, on a TDI diesel (5 speed) 3,000 rpm in 5th gear/6th gear, you'd be looking @ 95 + mph. MPG would diminish to something like 48 mpg and probably less.
For a titch over $16,000 for the stick shift model (for that green apple color we see plastered all over da net, too?) this car may just bop the new Ford Fiesta and Focus off of my futures list in a few years.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Now this is a real car...WINNING!!
There's more design integrity in just this one Peter Schreyer penning than Honda's entire automotive portfolio put together.
Period. Just the truth, man. And men. And even women, if we could get some of them interested in cars, that is.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
My take on the "design integrity" of the vehicle pictured above is that from the side it is fair-to-good, but the front is a mess. :sick:
Just my opinion.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But really, how it drives is the key. Current Rio is a penalty box compared to almost every (non-Korean) car, how will this new Rio fare?
But they're just not. Never will be. Ever.
Never.
Did you like the 70's automobile designs over the glorious 60's too, guys? Yuk-who on here just cut some serious cheese? The boxy 70's designs?
Hon-Duh and Thai-o-ta designers are drunk on boring 70's designs. You'll never, ever see Peter Schreyer of Kia asleep at the wheel like they are.
Never. Ever. Notta. Outta business! Fire-sale!
70% off! Going out of business! You'll never see prices like these again!
And yes, my wish is for both the Spurs and the Lakers to lose in the first round, too. Rock on!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2012 Ford Focus fronts in action...non-offronting, too, might and may I add for free
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
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I wonder why?
Schreyer *is* German, FWIW.
So they are now German designs, in a way.
I guess there's nobody from the homeland coming up with any leading designs...we've all seen the Equus.
Not a bad idea to hire in good talent.
Civic HF, Sedan, Coupe and Natural Gas Specifications
* 140 horsepower, 1.8-liter i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder engine
* 5-speed automatic transmission
* ECO Assist technology
* EPA-estimated Civic HF highway fuel economy: 41 mpg
* EPA-estimated Civic Sedan and Civic Coupe highway fuel economy: 39 mpg
Civic Hybrid Specifications
* 110 horsepower, 1.5-liter i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder engine (combined gasoline + electric)
* Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT)
* Lithium-ion battery
* ECO Assist technology
* EPA-estimated Civic Hybrid city/highway combined fuel economy: 45 mpg
Civic Si Specifications
* 200 horsepower and 170 lb-ft, 2.4-liter i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder engine
* 6-speed manual transmission
* EPA-estimated Civic Si highway fuel economy: 31 mpg
All the regular Civics are listed with a standard 5-speed auto! Oh perish the thought - surely they will continue to offer a stick in other Civic trims besides the SI?
If not, this is a dark day indeed for the future of the manual transmission.... :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Still manuals in the 2011's... except for leather.
Manuals might be a dying breed in the U.S., but they won't ever go away due to their massive demand in the rest of the world, mostly because they are so much cheaper to buy and repair.
But they probably won't be offerd in the US due to the cost of certifying the drivetrain. The sales do not justify the expense on basic models.
As for cheaper to buy and repair, I wouldn't be suprised that today's automatics acutally cost less to to manuafacuture due to the volumes.
Unless it's a 2013 Mazda 2 in that candy apple green color for only $16,400 outfitted to the hilt. :shades:
2010 Mazda 2 in that green
BTW-are the Red Sox gonna stamp out those pesky Yankees this mlb year?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Hands down. 6-speed tranny that notches like a champ.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I hope so.
But in reality how often to transmissions break down? I could see having to replace clutches and flywheels long before most autos require replacement.
Don't get me wrong - I love driving stick and will do so for as long as I can.
However one should put a bit of this in context. The oem can charge a normal + 1,000 and beyond premium and upfront for an A/T. The AVERAGE age of the passenger vehicle fleet is 9.5 years. The average US driver does 12,000 to a high of 15,000 miles per year. So we are talking about 143,000 miles when someone (with an 04 Civic for example) will probably look to replace his "old" car. So in that example, we are talking app 107,000 miles.
Now I have been witness to easily 1/2 a dozen R/R clutch jobs (03 TDI as that is an obvious interest and concern) Almost all were "due" to power upgrades. A very common in TDI circles "V6 Sachs clutch " upgrade. So I have seen most with 200 to 230k miles that could have just as easily run another 200 to 250,000 miles (total of 400 to 500,000 miles) EASILY. But even if you wanted to put the old components back in, you are still paying for labor, so you might as well just suck it up and put the new parts in instead of the old.
Still manuals in the 2011's... except for leather.
Yes, I was talking about the 2012. I sure hope I am wrong. But it is truly a dark day if HONDA, of all companies, drops manuals from all but the sport trim of its compact car. Guess my Honda days are numbered. Mazda and Subaru continue to make manuals widely available, so I guess that is where I will shop....
As for manual shift 2011 Civics, they exist in theory, but were they being built this year? It has been 10-12 months since stick shift Civics were easy to find on dealer lots. My dealer has had ONE, the very cheap DX/VP trim that no-one buys, for a while now, but I have looked a number of times for stick shift LX's and EX's in the last year and found none.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The stick will be around a lot longer.
10 years ago people were saying the stick was dead. and it isn't yet. What hurts it the most is when they only offer it on low end models so people who don't want a basic car cave and turn to the dark side. If they take the trouble to certify it they should offer it on all models.
Darn straight.
I wonder who the yuppie is in charge of Honda this last half decade?
Sam
You know I agree with you here, Dud. It is frustrating to me that I can't replace my current Accord (EX-L w/Navi) because Honda doesn't offer a stick with leather any longer.
The kids will be gone when I'm ready for a new one so maybe the coupe will still have a manual like it does today.
The sadness compounds when you know that Honda makes such smooth-shifting manuals. :sick:
A $6000 bill for an automatic repair for an E Class or similar is usually the wake-up call that something's dreadfully wrong. That's 5 clutch jobs (though it's more reasonably $1200 for one as you'll put a racing clutch in that'll last 200K or more once the OEM one dies - if it does, that is)
Lastly, while dealers night have a hard time reselling manuals, they fly out of your driveway when you put them up for sale. Nobody wants a classic 1960s or 1970s Mercedes with automatic, but if you have one with manual, people ask you to buy it just coming out of the grocery store. (had this happen over a dozen times with mine I owned)
Manual won't be going anywhere, though it will be harder and harder to find. Note - the upcoming Buick Verano/Cadillac ATS will have a manual option, as does the base Cruze. Add a turbocharger or similar and I'll be seriously interested.
When the lease was up on my 2002 530i 5-Speed (with Sport Package, Premium Package, high end audio and Xenon headlights) my lease agreement said that I was supposed to return the car to the dealership I leased it from; unfortunately I'd since moved four states away from said dealership.
I called the local dealership up here in New Hampshire and told them I had a 530i coming off lease; the manager responsible for accepting off-lease cars was very non-plussed at being asked to take in yet another 530i. In fact, he was so non-plussed he told me he didn't want my car at all. "I suggest you take it back to New Jersey," he said after I pressed him a bit, "Do you have any idea how many 530is I have on the lot and how many more are coming off lease in just the next week?"
I protested a bit more claiming my inability to free my schedule up enough to get the car back to the original dealership, and the manager finally said in a somewhat defeated voice, "Well, make an appointment to bring it in and we'll take a look at it."
The appointed day came and I drove up in the lot, and not a second after this same manager cast a single glance at my car he said, "Oh yeah, we're keeping that one."
"What changed?" I asked, "Last week you wanted nothing to do with my car."
"Yeah," he laughed, "but last week I didn't know it was a stick. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a 530i with a stick that isn't bare bones?"
In the end my car showed up on the BMW CPE search facility two days after I turned it in, and at a price that was $2,000 higher than an otherwise identical 530i automatic; it sold in less than two weeks. Yeah, used cars with sticks don't sell well at all. :shades:
Personally, I prefer my fintail with the automatic. 4 on the tree - no fun. But something like a 240D, you NEED a manual just to move it along.
i'm having my GTO's non-worn clutch replaced now at 90k miles and 6 years due to a variety of worrisome symptoms. the clutch was supposed to be a "mere" $2k job. pilot bearings like to disintegrate, apparently causing a chain reaction of other damage adding to about $4k. So far.
I always knew the car didn't like city/stop&go traffic!
Also my son's mitsu lancer pushing 200k needed a clutch for $1400 this year.
And my VW TDI has 120k and hopefully doesn't need a clutch but has a noisy/grindy shift to 3rd when cold. I'm on my way to a clutch replacement 3-fer.
So for me, now would be a good time to stop thinking manual transmissions are cheaper to repair or that used cars are less expensive to maintain.
I've discovered that manual transmissions seem less expensive mostly for people who trade their cars before replacing the clutch/etc !
FWIW, my wife and I have accumulated about 1.7 million miles of driving between the two of us; 1.4 million in manual transmission equipped cars, and the remaining 330,000 in cars which were the correct vehicle for our needs (at the time) but not available with a stick. The transmission expense tally? One automatic transmission to the tune of three-thousand dollars, and (with the exception of my 1970 Challenger which used to eat clutches when I was racing it) zero clutch jobs.
100,000 miles cycles really makes things more manageable. One can then ask the questions: how many cycles can I reasonable EXPECT and what are the things most likely to fail. What normally fails after that 100,000 miles is what I focus on.
So for example clutch R/R can be treated as an UNscheduled item or realistically it can be considered a SCHEDULED repair item based on how one drives.