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If her electric power company uses nuclear, then she was correct. I have some neighbors that use a leaf blower "and" also own a rider mower. A rider with a side shoot will blow the leaves quicker and less of a task than a blower. A blower is redundant.
But, back to manual transmissions. My JD rider has auto trans, cruise, power steering, tilt steering wheel, hydraulic lift for the deck, cup holders, etc. When looking for a rider years ago, I did see and try out a "manual trans". What an extra chore it would be to have a manual on a rider. Wonder how many folks that enjoy using a manual trans in their cars and slogging through rush hour traffic, city streets, etc also have a manual trans rider.
As far as the Denali I was just commenting on there being no place for a manual shifter unless it was on the wheel like a paddle. And if you have just stopped by starbucks you wouldn't have a free hand to shift anyway.
I have never said that there aren't people that prefer to shift for themselves. All I have ever said is there are fewer and fewer percentages of people interested in them. I know this isn't scientific in any way but this weekend my wife and I decided to go off and hide for the weekend. We checked into a Hotel called the Mission Inn in Riverside. Great place to go during the Christmas season by the way. Anyway I decided it was a whole lot easier to let the Valet park my car and get it for me when we checked out. I called down to have the car pulled out and ready for us and then had our bags taken down to the claim area. It must have been checkout time for several other guests because we still had to wait for quite a while. Do you have any idea how many sticks I saw the valets pull up in? Sure there were a lot of Denalis, Excursions and Slades, with quite a few MB, Lexus and Acuras. As well as quite a few Sedans but not one stick in 20 minutes of watching cars be pulled up.
I still say people are more interested in cup holders than they are shifting. Like I told one of the other posters here last week. I am planning on looking for a replacement truck for the one that it looks like someone may have set on fire two weeks ago. But to get a 3/4 ton quad or extended 4x4 with a diesel and a stick I have to drive to Orange county or Long Beach. I simply don't expect the future of the manual to get any better than it is today. In fact I can't help but believe it will get worse.
C&D has a comparo test this month on 38K sports sedans, all sticks. Caddy CTS, MB C, BMW 325 and Infiniti G.
Well, as expected, the BMW was sweet (although they did say slightly rubbery), with postive shifts and nice clutch.
The other 3 all got panned for the quality (or lack of) on the shirter and/or clutch. The CTS they said was lousy, and a much, much better package with the AT. The Infiniti has grunchy syncrhos and weird vibrations, and something wasn't goo about the BEnz (heavy clutch? I think there was something).
And sadly, in all 3 cases, they have very good ATs in those cars (as good as you are going to get in an AT at least!), and have some sort of manumatic function.
So if they keep improving the performance and efficiency of the AT, and making unsatisfactory manuals, how is that going to help?
I did drive a a G35 stick when they first came out, and it wasn't all that satisfying a driving experience. From the sounds of it, the Caddy wouldn't be either.
Probably, if I was to get one of those cars (wishful thinking!) the BMW is the only one that I would definitely get with a stick. Also might be because it is lighter with less power, so IMO more suited. The G is more of a brute force hot rod if anything, and works real well with the AT.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I dunno, they could always go 3 on the tree. j/k
Every truck i have driven had pretty long throws and the shifter was pretty long itself. I am not a real big guy so I had to sit bch in the middle in front of the shifter. I typically took care of shifting duties at that point, but I had enough room to shift even with me sitting there. I don't think space would be a huge issue.
I still have a few of them kicking around, but for everyday use, the rotary isn't handy.
However, I loved it when a niece said "what's that?" and didn't know how to work it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I hope Honda/Acura are listening, because I happen to agree with you.
The "gearbox" on my Honda S2000 was the best of any car I've owned or driven. The clutch was a little weak, and occassionally slipped when shifting at high rpms under hard acceleration, so the best overall manual transmission package award (gearbox and clutch) would go to my 911S. But the flick of the wrist, short throw shifter on the S2000 was superior to the Porsche.
In 2004, when I tested the G35, 330i ZHP, Audi A4, C320, - the best gearbox again went to the Acura TL. Not quite as short throw as the S2000, obviously, but still relatively short, with a very positive shifter feel and engagement. The G35 and C320 weren't even close. The A4 was also pretty far back. But the real surprise was that the Acura gearbox felt better than the 330i ZHP and even, for that matter the M3 and 545i 6-speed. Unfortunately, mated to a FWD car, the clutch letup is trickier and wheel hop under hard acceleration was a detriment, compared to the 330i, but the gearbox itself was/is excellent.
Now you know why I've lobbied a bit in the past for a RWD Acura RL Sport. Get those S2000 engineers to design the 6-speed manual gearbox (with a stonger clutch) and have them drop in a 4.4 liter V8 with about 400 hp and a 7,500+ rpm redline all attached to a 50/50 balanced, sport suspensioned RWD platform and you would have a serious competitor to the BMW 550i Sport and E550 Sport. And rather than give away the current RL at $45k or less, they could easily charge $50-$55k, be a full $15k less than their closest comptetiton and, by trading off the obese, complex and expensive SH-AWD system for RWD, make a boatload more money than the miniscule sales the current RL generates.
Boaz might suggest that the market for manual transmissions is too limited. I would respectfully suggest that I'd rather be a serious competitor in a field of two competing for discretionary enthusiast dollars than just put out another uninspired model to fight it out in the mass slushbox market. The current RL sales are dismal. I am confident that the RL sport I describe would do considerably better, both in unit sales and especially profitability. Hell, I'd buy two just to put my money where my mouth is.
CLutch is light but not too light, and very progressive ANd the shifter is precise, and even makes a nice snick going from 2-3! Solid feel, and you always know what is going on (never a question about what gear you are hitting).
From what I remember of driving a G35 6 speed (when they first came out), the clutch was tricky to modulate (and maybe a bit stiff), and the gearbox had short throws but was too high effort. It seemed like too much "work" to shift the car (and more like an on/off switch where I was jerking forward). Maybe it was just a matter of getting used to it, but it certainly wasn't smooth or intuitive.
That also might go back to my theory that lighter cares with smaller, higher revving engines (Hondas, the 911) were better with sticks, and bigger/heavier/more powerful sleds (like the CTS or G35 or BMW 545i) were not as satisfying (good?) with the stick, and in many cases, better suited to the AT option.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I found the TL I testdrove to be a bit better in feel and precision.
My 350z clutch engagement was also imprecise (i heard tell that this could be fixed with stiffer motor mounts??), but no other complaints. My Alfa's clutch is wonderful. If I could combine that clutch with the Z's gearbox, it would be the ultimate setup.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I would be curious to know if you felt the same way about my car's clutch. I think it is fine, and no jumping problems.
I wonder if the problem is with the 6 speed you have? For some reason, it seems that when they jam in that extra gear, the boxes become sloppy? I can shift from 2->3 pretty much with one finger, and I don't think I could miss it if I tried.
Clutches are a personal preference item. I remember testing some VWs, and felt like a newbie. Kept waiting for it to engage, and it didn't do it until the very top of the travel. Stange.
Now my Miata, that had a nice shifter and clutch!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I've gotten to the point that i really dislike this car.
And I kind of think that might be a part of the reason I'm not so upset about getting an automatic next time. The fun of manual driving has been sapped by this Accord.
I also tried a VW. It was a Jetta VR6. I couldn't believe how antiquated the clutch and shifter felt. At the time, it was, I believe 6 years old (a '99 model I drove in '05), and it felt 20 years old. Very very long throws and very very long pedal travel. It reminded me of my '79 CJ7, except much lighter.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yes! Yes! Yes! Literally my fantasy car! I've always thought Acura REALLY missed the boat by not making a sport type RL and a wicked engine upgrade with a six speed manual. I have enjoyed a manual TL but have always thought I "settled for less".... I think Acura is too far into a mindset that the RL is suppose to be a luxury car.... Too bad.
My feeling is that manuals simply are not promoted in this country and so manufacturers have little real reason to improve or even support them. Most driving schools in my area are not set up to teach high school kids how to drive a stick. Most parents aren't involved in their kids schools let alone thinking about their driving future to teach them to drive a manual. So it is left to the few, like the earlier poster that had to have his brother drive his car home to learn how to drive a stick "after" he bought it. In other words it is a limited market that saturates itself quickly leaving very little room for new manuals.
But getting back to the economy and mindset of our country. When ever we get into any kind of economic stress we always neglect disposable expenditures. Weekend home sales suffer. Sail boat sales suffer more than powerboat sales. Sports car sales suffer more than family cars. A RWD RL may indeed be a better vehicle than the current one but even if you bought two it is unlikely sales would improve in this market. You might have a smile on your face but Honda Stock holders more than likely would squirm a bit.
I should temper my previous remarks by adding that the only brand offering a manual whose cars I did NOT sit in is Porsche. Most of their cars were locked, and the ones that were open had lines of people waiting to get seat time, so I walked on by. I would pin my hopes on Porsche also, except that for me personally Porsche will probably never be an option, just because of price and limited utility. :sick:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A dark horse might be the upcoming Hyundai (Genesis?) RWD sedan, although I don't know if that will have a V8.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
At this point, my next car might be an AT, depending on what and when I decide to get. I will, of course, take that as excuse to buy another toy of some kid, of course with a stick.
I really, really like the new G35 sedan in dark gray with gray leather. That is a nice looking car.
If I go luxury instead of chearper/ecomomy minded (IMO< my Accord is a nice mid point between the 2) it could be an AT. Anything ecomomy based (Astra, Matrix, etc.) would be a stick.
Ah, who am I kidding. I will have the Accord for years to come (college time coming soon!). If anything gets replaced, it will be the family truckster.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And I'd like to kick Acura in the [non-permissible content removed] and remind them that luxury and sport don't need to be mutually exclusive. If there is any doubt (Boaz??) that a RWD RL Sport could not possibly do any worse than the current AWD slushbox only V6 is doing, take a look at this: Acura Sales
RL Sales (2007 YTD): 5,676
Honda S2000 (2006 YTD): 5,944
So the barely 3 year old "mass market" flagship Acura RL has sold nearly 300 fewer units than a virtually unadvertised hand built Honda Formula One inspired "halo car" did in its 7th year of (intentionally limited) production.
And the RL has been discounted to below invoice for at least the past 18 months. When I bought the 3rd model year 2002 S2000 in November 2001, the Edmunds TMV was $4,000 OVER MSRP. I happened to get a whopping $600 off MSRP in DC as snow was falling the Friday after Thanksgiving.
So the bimmer problem makes a manual trans SO much more attractive. I mean, $2500 to get an auto?? WOW!!
yeah, yeah, ok, so i could go without the paddle shifters and only spend $1200, but then its not as nice of an alternative to a manual.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Read my previous post. RL sales are about 6,000 per year. I believe BMW 5 series sales are approximately 240,000 worldwide, with about 50% in the US. Of those, about 20% are manual transmissions, or roughly 24,000 in the US.
Put a $55k 400hp RL Sport up against a $55k 528i, a $63k 535i or a $70k+ 550i and you don't think it would manage better than 6,000 units. And I never said that Acura couldn't offer a paddle shifting SMG or DSG version for the clutch challenged.
If I could afford to buy the RL brand from Acura, I would be able to generate $500 million+ sales in the first full year of production. I guarantee it. And the development costs would be no more than the current RL, probably a lot less. Acura already has the engineering talent in house. Management just lacks the balls, passion or both.
My 1993 Accord EX had a terrible clutch. It was incredibly hard to launch, felt like it chattered, and required some attention when getting underway. It was the same at 300 miles as 153000 miles. My MIL had a '92 and then a '95 that were fine, no issues.
My 2007 has one of the easiest clutches I've used, and its so light I occasionally kill the Subaru when jumping from one car to the other. Production variance?
It would truly be an interesting experiment to see. I know when Nissan first brought the G35 to our shores we were told it was going to be the American version of the Skyline. It came with an automatic and of course was no skyline. They did come a year later with the manual option but today three of the 4 models offered in the G35 are automatics and only the sport comes with a manual. I wonder if they generated the kind of sales you mention with one manual model? I now have to wait for the second invasion of the Skyline, but I am not holding my breath.
Americans are a strange breed when it comes to cars. Corvette has been "the" American sports car for more years than I can count and from what I have read most of them are automatics.
While RL sales might not drop if it were a RWD with a quality manual I very much doubt if sales would increase to the point you suggest. The economy is tanking to the point were they are not predicting a recovery for all of 2008. With new car sales falling introducing a 400HP RL would take quite a bold move from any board of investors. With the new fuel standards it would be like shaking a fist in the face of the economy. what you are talking about would take some brass examples of what you say they lack.
Maybe.
But that would prove honda manufacturing standards to be far less than perfect. Is such a theory allowed to exist? ;b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Actually, the car we got as the G35 was almost identical to the V35 Skyline 350GT except for the steering wheel location and the analog clock. The problem was that Nissan turned the Skyline into what the Leopard had been.
http://www.autozine.org/html/Nissan/Skyline.html
"If the world wanted automatics ... every car would say Toyota on the back!"
Jeremy Barnes, Product and Corporate Communications Director, Mazda NA Operations
I happen to like this idea and if habitat could cut a deal with Acura, I could probably get some venture capital / private equity money to back him.
The ONLY Japanese company that I am really impressed with from an engineering standpoint is Honda. The fact that my company is providing consulting services to their HondaJet group puts me in a position to see first hand their passion for precision and engineering innovation.
As a long time BMW loyalist, it would take a "bold" move to get me to consider any Japanese car as an alternative to a 5-series, let alone the $75k M5 I bought in 2003. There are plenty of "nice" luxury sedans, but none that appeal to the driving enthusiast the way the BMW 5-series does. And virtually none with a manual transmission. If Acura had a $55,000 "RL sport" on the market today, I may not be ready to trade in the keys to my M5, but I could fill a charter bus with friends and business associates that would give it a serious test drive and consideration. It would be head and shoulders above anything by Infiniti, Lexus, Audi or even Mercedes on my shopping list.
As for the "economy tanking", I don't mean to sound insensitive, but for the upper middle and upper demographic, it either isn't or it doesn't seem to matter. Honda has a 5 year backlog on orders for a $6 million microjet that isn't even available yet. My Porsche dealer isn't selling as many cars this year as he did in 2005, but he sells three to five times as many 911's at $80-150k+ than the Acura dealership sells $45-50k RL's 2 miles down the road. In Pittsburgh, no less.
Finding the right market niche and exploiting it is where the real money is made in business. And an RL Sport with the specs suggested would be a winner, IMO.
They would need a V8 engine, and basically have to completely redesign the platform to change from FWD-based to RWD-based.
So basically they would have to invest a ton of money, only to end up with an even bigger obstacle - meeting the new CAFE rules that were just signed into effect for 2020.
At 6000 units per year, they're better off just dropping it and offering an AWD TL, which would pick up the slack.
At that sales level the RL serves no point, and should be dropped.
I doubt they will, however.
Thankfully, that mentality wasn't in the board room or conference room when the subject of an S2000 came up. Or else I never would have had a $32k alternative to the $55k Boxster S in 2002.
Any way you look at it, the current RL is a miserable marketplace failure. It might be a nice enough car, but by following the "mass market" mentality of conservative styling, a ho-hum V6, a slushbox transmission, etc. etc. Acura has produced just another also-ran in the highly competitive luxury sedan market with literally dozens of alternatives to choose from. IMO, and perhaps that of spiritinthesky, there is only one competitior for true enthusiasts in the luxury sport sedan niche of that luxury sedan market. The BMW 5-series.
When Acura's "flagship" undersells Honda's limited production niche "halo" car, just maybe, gentlemen, it's time for Honda/Acura (and you) to change your thinking. Absolutely no disrespect or boasting intended, but I'm driving a 911 because I succeeded in my profession by going against the grain.
Even ignoring the enthusiast's perspective, I think the real problem with the current RL is that it fails to compete even with its younger sibling, the TL.
Let's compare the two:
The RL is 7 inches longer, but nearly identical in height, width, interior room, and cargo capacity. The new Honda Accord is even bigger than it is! There are 30 extra horses and AWD, which is still fairly front-biased. Ride quality isn't significantly better. And most of the technology and luxury offered on the RL is also available for the TL.
On top of it all, though this may be purely anecdotal, I've seen more RLs with quality issues than any other Acura product, and not just with transmissions either (which've usually been Acura's weak point) The several owners I know have all had their cars in the shops more than any other Honda or Acura I've seen - actually approaching Mercedes levels. However, this does not seem to be the case with the latest 2007 and 2008 models, so maybe all those issues have been ironed out by now...
I've spent a lot of time both riding in and driving the last generation TL and CL Type-S (those are the cars I learned to drive on), I've spent a fair amount of time in the current generation TL and RL, and I fail to see any reason to spend a $5-10K premium over the current TL, which, when fully loaded, is already priced close to a base 5-series. Even worse, as Acura's flagship, the RL is often compared to the Lexus LS, BMW 7-series, and Mercedes's S-class, which're out of its league.
I think the RL is having an identity crisis. Basically, if you want a large, sporty car for a great value, you get the TL. If you want a premium car, you go for one of the aforementioned three brands. Without RWD and a V8 (features of "real" premium cars), RL isn't that sporty, and it's not so luxurious, so where's its position in the market?
Acura has always coupled Honda's legendary reliability and engineering skills to make a great car at a great price. When you start talking numbers north of $50K, as you said, the competition gets fierce. Even if the next generation RL is a smash hit with enthusiasts and luxury car lovers alike, Acura would have to put in a lot of effort to compete with the benchmark 5-series in the generation after that. I have no doubt that you could turn the whole brand around, habitat, but I don't think that Acura has what it takes to compete with the likes of Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes, not in that price range, at least.
But we are very different in this I know. I have one house paid for and the one I owe on I am selling. When I sell the one I will take off and travel for a year or two and see our country. I thought about getting a Z06, I like them better than Porsche but the route 66 has been done. So I will be getting a big truck and travel trailer or a class A motor home and taking off. Maybe I am going with the grain but I like it.
Not sure if this represents "legendary reliability and engineering..." :-P
The RL really does need to find its way, that's for sure. Not sure a manual and a V-10 would do it though. It's still a pork-mobile and not very big on the inside, and not very sporting by design. It was clear it was in trouble the moment they debuted it crowing about the NAV system with live traffic updates. If THAT is all you have to boast about on your brand new luxury sedan, there is a problem...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm not looking to turn the whole brand around. As you indicated, the TL is a pretty successful competitor in the "entry level luxury performance sedan" (ELLPS) segment, the FWD handicap notwithstanding. And the redesigned MDX is a pretty successful competitor in the SUV segment. But the RL leaves a lot on the table.
As far as Acura "not having what it takes" to compete with Lexus, BMW and Mercedes? I strongly disagree. The S2000 is an exhibition of extraordianry ground up sports car technology, even a full 8 years after it was introduced. Give me a BMW, MB or Lexus example of that. And for a price that's $20k less than a more luxurious, but no more competent base Boxster. My current Porsche ownership doesn't keep me from heartily recommending the S2000 as a very attractive alternative to the Boxster. By comparison, the 350Z is an obese exercise in the use of spare parts and Lexus doesn't even have a sports car - everything they build still appears to have Buick genes in it's "driving" DNA. So IMO, if Honda can take on Porsche, then Acura should have no engineering limitation whatsoever relative to taking on the BMW 5 series with the RL. And doing very well if they can offer even half of the relative "value" Honda did with the S2000 pricing.
Lexus has finally readied the IS-F for the road, on sale shortly. The only available transmission? An 8-speed automatic.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Don't get me wrong, I fully understand and appreciate Honda's engineering and value, especially with a car such as the S2000. But I made my statement in context to the current, $50K RL compared to its competitors.
The RL has never been sporty. Its previous generation was an awfully heavy and vastly underpowered car. Some snippets from the Edmunds follow up of the 2002 3.5RL:
Compared to an '01 RL, the '02 is certainly firmer. But in the spectrum from luxury to sport, the RL falls toward the former. The suspension is still relatively soft, and the front-drive layout will likely have spirited operators wanting a more entertaining drive.
When one considers that the 2002 3.5RL hasn't had a major redesign since 1996, the car shows well. It's competent, and its price is less than that of cars like the Lexus LS 430 and Infiniti Q45. But the Q and LS have more features, more performance and more prestige. If price weren't a primary concern, those cars would likely serve you better, as would our favorite midsize luxury sedan, the BMW 5 Series.
As I mentioned before, the RL is suffering an identity crisis. Its previous generations were anything but sporty, and Acura has done a half-assed job trying to infuse a primarily luxury car with sporting DNA. Even if you go to the RL's website, Acura has a lot more to say about the car's luxury, safety, and technology than its performance. The current car came out for the 2005 model year and it was already lagging behind its competitors in some key areas, which is how I justify my statement of Acura not having what it takes.
Besides, if the RL were to truly compete, Honda would need to re-engineer it for RWD and develop a V8, which, as far as I know, they do not have and are not developing - the NSX is getting a V10 last I checked. They already have excellent manual transmissions, so there's no issue there. All of this, however, will come at the cost of weight, which it already needs to lose a lot of - 4014lbs curb weight compared to the 5-series's 3505lbs! - and price, which will push it towards the $60K mark.
My entire family has been loyal to Honda and Acura for decades now. Both brands make great cars, and both have had fantastic sports cars in the forms of the S2000 and NSX. Unfortunately, the RL is a disappointment, in its previous generations and its current one, as well. They're overall good cars, for the money. If price is the only thing you have going for your car, competing at the $50K level probably isn't the best of ideas.
If Acura put in the effort, they could certainly make BMW sweat. There is absolutely no question that they have the ability to do so, but their will to make it happen is sadly lacking more than anything else.
I used to like Lexus. Until I learned to drive stick, that is, and started learning what "sporty" really means. Now I have different priorities when it comes to driving compared to Lexus owners.
Also, I keep hearing that the auto on the IS-F locks up the torque converter almost all of the time, simulating a true manual, and that it shifts in 100ms (!), which compares to Ferrari's F1-Superfast on the 599. Any idea if this is true, that this is the current peak of the automatic transmission, or is it all just hype and marketing BS?
Those parameters still fall within Honda's philosophy. It's back to basics, light, relatively simple, and comes with a small displacement engine that'll rev the daylights out of you.
Small and efficient, basically.
That strategy would not translate well in to the RL's class, where it's all about substance. The RL's engine could rev to 9,000 rpm and it would do nothing to help its sales.
I wonder if they will eventually bring a manual for this model. BMW is clearly doing everything it can think of to get out of offering manuals in future M-cars.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They have the baggage of Camry re-badges, even the ES250. Remember those? Few people do.
Plus they cater to quiet, isolated rides. That's their niche. BMW never really did that.
So car mags are naturally biased towards the Ultimate Driving Machine. They're afraid of being ridiculed if they don't pick the BMW as the comparo winner. There is just huge pressure on them.
Even if Lexus does come out with a silky-smooth 8 speed manual, they'll find something to complain about. Not enough feedback. Too many ratios. Some other lame complaint.
It will never be enough.
Please explain? I thought BMW was a manual good guy?
Those parameters still fall within Honda's philosophy. It's back to basics, light, relatively simple, and comes with a small displacement engine that'll rev the daylights out of you.
Small and efficient, basically.
That strategy would not translate well in to the RL's class, where it's all about substance. The RL's engine could rev to 9,000 rpm and it would do nothing to help its sales.
Not to mention that in the RL's class, the engines better be quiet and almost lazily dish out gobs of low-end torque - a trait that Honda's engines have never had.
Your reference to Honda's philosophy got me thinking. Honda actively pursues sportiness in most of its cars. The new Accord, though being larger than even the current RL, is praised primarily for how sporty it is, especially in the face of its competition from the much more boring Toyota and the American makes. Acura takes this formula and ups it a notch - the brand adds entry-level luxury but more importantly, more sport.
So in stark contrast with what Acura has previously done by taking a sporty formula and adding luxury to it, they tried to developed the RL for luxury, and sport was added almost an an afterthought. Problem is, the Germans can do luxury far, far better, and they are much more adept at adding sport to a luxury car. Toyota is the same way, and Lexus was created with this philosophy in mind.
You can't succeed with a product that goes against your most basic of competencies.