The Future Of The Manual Transmission

boaz47

When shopping for a certified used car most often when you do find a manual it has fewer features than one equipped with an automatic. At least this has proven true in my search for a replacement for my 2500. Friday I test drove a Dodge club cab that was pretty nice except for having rubber floor mats. I also had a chance to drive a Ford Crew cab but the shifter left a lot to be desired and it had a lot more miles on it than most of the trucks I have been looking at.

The second problem is all of my wife's friends have SUVs. Expeditions, Yukons, Tahoes, Sequoias. They all have all the bells and whistles and none of the manuals I have seen so far have had half of those things. Well Monday is another day.

ateixeira

Makes sense to me. The basic utility models would come with a manual because they're cheaper to buy and use less fuel, yet still get the job done.

The loaded ones are all automatics because that's another "convenience" that sort of shopper usually wants.

ny540i6

I agree that this is true with most vehicles... until you get to the high performance segment, where someone might want all of the other "bells and whistles" along with the manual tranny.

ateixeira

Yep. I meant in the context of HD work trucks.

ny540i6

Oh, OK. Funny think is that it is just about the same in the rentl car world... I remember renting a car in Mexico, and specifically asking for a manual. The only one they had came with no A/C. The agent said they kept it for the person who wanted to rent the cheapest thing possible!

ateixeira

elias

it's also true with VW TDIs that many of them do not have many options - many dealers order them that way because many diesel customers prefer that.
recently i happened to snag a VW TDI 5-spd that had been ordered with the maxxed option "package 2", but the original-buyer /ordering-dude had wimped out. dealer mentioned that they do not get many TDIs loaded with options. previously this decade i had bought three TDIs off their lot - all 3 with almost no options.

as for the sport-segment, yes to what you said !

boaz47

Three weeks of looking at used trucks taught me one truth. Yes there are manuals out there but few of them have many options. I took my wife with me to look at three more trucks and the lot happened to have a clean use Sequoia and a clean Tahoe sitting on the lot. The Sequoia had a few more miles but it was pretty nice. However neither comes with a manual option. After driving both we got the Z71 Tahoe. It was pretty much loaded with everything but Navigation and a moon roof. The Tahoe also had a bigger engine and if you remember I wanted to tow a trailer. I knew once my wife sat in the leather seats and listened to the sound system that we would be getting a SUV. The seats in the Tahoe are almost as comfortable as my living room sofa.

nippononly

Boaz! You gave up? Say it aint so! 4WD or 2? I assume 4WD?

xwesx

This was probably out-dated by the time I even had driver's ed, but my teacher in that class was sure to let us farming-community kids know that you could "roll" a manual-transmission vehicle out of danger just by running the starter with the clutch out and in low gear. It was a great tip with all the railroad tracks and narrow roads we had around our area but, with the interlocks, that is no longer a possibility.

boaz47

4wd of course. I found plenty of nice 2wd trucks even in diesel crew cabs. Not many with a manual but a few. However like I said most of them didn't have many options. As someone pointed out I guess people that want a manual truck aren't as interested in plush leather seats and many of the other options. It seems as if most of the manuals were work trucks and while they were nice they weren't very impressive.

We got snow about the time I lost my Truck and I was concerned about getting around in the snow and ice over the next few weeks or even three months. I like the option of a transfer case and this one comes with a setting for 2wd, 4wd hi and 4wd low. Plus automatic 4wd that detects slipping if you are just on wet pavement and aren't sure you need 4wd. But this one has the tow package with the hitch installed so we are ready for a trailer. If we sell the house and move to our place in the desert we will either keep the little 4 banger Pontiac or get one of those electric Gems for running errands around town. The Pontiac gets 22 to 26MPG and is fine for around town but who knows where fuel will go over the next few years. But since the car is paid for we have a head start on fuel prices because we don't have a car payment.

nippononly

Wait, I have somehow missed this along the way: what Pontiac four-banger is that? I am guessing it doesn't have a stick?

upstatedoc

"This was probably out-dated by the time I even had driver's ed, but my teacher in that class was sure to let us farming-community kids know that you could "roll" a manual-transmission vehicle out of danger just by running the starter with the clutch out and in low gear."

:confuse: Please explain this to a non-farming-community kid. Was that with a dead battery?

ateixeira

Congrats.

Maybe when it's time to replace it there will be some manuals offered on diesel pickups/SUVs or something.

boaz47

"Wait, I have somehow missed this along the way: what Pontiac four-banger is that? I am guessing it doesn't have a stick? "

This has been a hard year on us. Last August my Wife's mother passed away and I think I once mentioned we had bought her a 92 Pontiac in 92. When we got is all she wanted was 4 doors, a radio and air. We got ABS and one or two other things but it was a pretty basic Sunbird. No it isn't a manual but it has the 2.0 and gets reasonable mileage so we kept it. It only had 29,000 miles on it and we put many of those miles on it when we would drive her some place. I had thought about selling it and getting a new small economy car but there isn't enough mileage difference to make up for the cost of a new car. So we can drive the Tahoe on trips like the one we plan to the grand canyon and the Pontiac on local errands. It even has manual windows.

boaz47

I think the only hope I have for another manual is if they indeed allow them to put diesels in smaller cars and trucks and keep making manuals for those vehicles. For us a Diesel Rav4 or CR-V sized vehicle would be real nice. But once I am fully retired price will be a major consideration. That is why I paid cash for the Tahoe, I don't need to make payments at this point.

xwesx

No, the battery works, of course, but the engine fails to start. So, you essentially use the battery to power the starter, which turns the engine, transmission, and, finally, wheels. The vehicle lugs forward slowly until you are out of harm's way, or until the battery dies!

upstatedoc

My bad, that works if the engine fails, not the battery.

xwesx

No, I was not very clear in my original post. I made the assumption that most/all readers were familiar with the concept. Chalk it up to my rural roots.

stever

I knew what you were talking about - the only times I've used that trick was when I was missing a flywheel or starter gear tooth or something and I'd bump the car in gear to help the starter engage on the next crank.

xwesx

Hehe.... I just remembered this time about 11 years ago, not long after I picked up my '69 C20. I drove it into town that morning and, on the way home, started smelling fuel very strong. I stopped, opened the hood, and saw fuel squirting out of the fuel pump! So, when I made it home, I came inside and asked my grandpa if he would give me a ride to the auto-parts store to get a new fuel pump. Of course, he had his doubts about that being the problem, so we went out to take a look. I popped the hood and told him, "Okay, look right down there. When I go to start it, it will spray out."

He does, and I run around to the driver's side, lean in, and hit the key. Well, silly me, I forgot to pop it out of gear first (it was in 2nd). So, my grandpa has his head in the engine bay, standing to one side and I have my head in the cab, feet on the ground on the other side. I briefly touch the key and the truck jumps forward. Of course, I immediately release the key, but wouldn't you know that darn thing actually started up, in gear, and off it went!

My grandpa jumps back, swearing up a storm, and I grabbed on to the steering wheel as it drags me along for a moment before I could jump in to stop it.

I was laughing so hard I nearly cried; he was so mad at me I thought he was going to take a swing at me. After a couple minutes of yelling profanities at me and telling me that I was incompetent, I said, "You know, you are right. I really don't need your help." I went over to my van, which I had torn apart to replace an axle seal and rebuild the carburetor, spend about two hours fixing it, then drove it into town and picked up the part for the truck. Another hour of work and it was back in business; no grumpy old man needed.

Needless to say, I have yet to make that mistake again. :P

habitat1

Needless to say, I have yet to make that mistake again.

And I hope you and Gramps made up. Mine was my best friend as a kid. If anyone ever called him a "grumpy old man", they'd have gotten my Louisville Slugger in the knee caps. Good thing we aren't brothers.

xwesx

Well, my grandfather was a real [non-permissible content removed] to me when I was a kid, so I never had too much respect for him. That, of course, aggravated his tendency to be an [non-permissible content removed]. I appreciate what he has to offer, but I also know to keep him at arm's length. I am glad he is still around; he is a much better person now than he was 20 years ago. He just has a hair-trigger temper that he never has learned how to tame.

Haha, were we brothers, one of us would have either had a much better grandfather, or a much worse one. In that case, I am certain our opinions would mesh. I would love a best-friend grandparent as a child. Heck, for a while there, any adult that could pass for a role model would suffice....

stickguy

well, now you know why cars today come with a clutch interlock!

xwesx

boaz47

After all the years of hearing about the Skyline and and the pretend Skylines like the G-35 they sent over a few years ago we are supposed to get the real deal with the new GT-R. A sports car that will make us forget the Z06? Yet what transmission are they offering? It just seems as if Nissan under Renaults influence is moving away from the manual every time you turn around. That is unless they have a option to buy a manual and people jump on it.

Nippon my friend, MB may not be the first manufacturer to drop manuals, Nissan may beat them to it.

andys120

It just seems as if Nissan under Renaults influence is moving away from the manual every time you turn around.

I'm not sure that Renault's influence would have much to do with it. AFAIK almost everything they make is available with three pedals.

plekto

No, the rest of the world gets a manual.

Evidently they think that we are all yuppies and idiots who can't or won't be bothered to shift for ourselves.

nippononly

Over at Nissan they have fallen in love with that motorboat-in-a-teacup, the CVT.

And it has served them well - the new Altima gets only a CVT or manual shift, and sales have shot up since the redesign. I called that one wrong. :sick:

They will be making a big mistake if they go with some F1-derived auto-shifter as the ONLY available transmission in the 350Z. At least, I think so. Just imagine Mini Coopers, WRXs, or Miatas without manuals. All three are models in which the automatic option substantially reduces resale appeal down the line.

cdnpinhead

". . .they think that we are all yuppies and idiots who can't or won't be bothered to shift for ourselves."

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

Sadly, it's true, as Boaz is only too happy to point out.

Manuals are still available, but it takes more effort to find them and/or more compromises regarding what else you're willing to do without to have those three pedals. Some brands don't demand too much compromise (other than price). Others do. But first, you gotta wanna.

Most in North America don't.

razorasdf

Idiot that I am, I sealed the deal on a new 2008 Volkswagen GTI. Managed to get a great price several hundred dollars under invoice, and a decent trade-in value, which should lessen the financial blow a bit.

It's a 6 speed manual. Though DSGs may be more popular, there's still a loyal few (like myself) that stuck with it. Almost landed a slightly better deal on a limited edition Fahrenheit GTI, which only comes with DSG, but the transmission was one of the primary reasons I turned elsewhere.

The (Getrag, I think) 6 speed on the GTI shifts really nicely. Nice, short throws and an even lighter clutch than my tC. In fact, the clutch and shifter on the tC feel like a Ford Ranger's in comparison... I love it! Can't wait to pick her up tomorrow.

kyfdx

What's idiotic about that? The GTI is very cool..

2-door or 4-door? What color?

razorasdf

The idiotic part is that I'm taking a hit from having bought a new Scion tC last year. But I got a really good deal, I think, so it makes up for it.

It's a Tornado Red 2-door, with 18" Hufeisen wheels and all-season rubber, premium audio, sunroof, and an iPod adapter. I'll probably be getting a Revo upgrade as soon as I get the car, just in time for my snowboarding trip up to Pennsylvania this Saturday.

I originally wanted black, then white, but the red one they had on the lot was too gorgeous to pass up. Didn't help that I saw this pic, either. Hopefully I won't get too much attention from cops.

bristol2

Hey, if you can keep it 5 years you won't feel like an idiot when it's paid off!

Congratulations on a great new car!

andys120

Nice car but you shoulda got the awesome DSG. :P

razorasdf

Haha, sadly enough, I almost did! I was being offered a pretty good deal on a Fahrenheit (only 2 left in the whole area!), which only comes with DSG. I probably could have brought the price down to about the same as the car I'm getting now, or maybe even a little lower since it's a 2007 with 135 miles on it, but I would be stuck with the DSG. As amazing and tempting as it was, my previous posts should explain why I went with the dog leg instead.

I'm just hoping I won't accidentally shift into second instead of fourth like I did on the test drive. Thankfully it was at low speeds, but the effortless shifter, lack of notchiness, and closer-spaced gears compared to my tC kinda threw me off. I'm going to be extra paranoid with my shifting for a few days, at least. :P

upstatedoc

Yeah, you gotta watch those missed shifts. I went from 5th to 2nd a couple of times already. And I keep forgetting there's a sixth gear! Took 'er out yesterday in the almost 70 degree weather, what a blast. I never drove the DSG, it was never a consideration. Have fun!

bumpy

My guess is that Nissan assumes (probably correctly) that just about everyone in North America who really wants a manual GT-R also wants the lightened carbon-fiber-everything V-spec model.

ateixeira

CVT is OK to replace the auto, but I'm bummed they keep dropping manuals, especially given their sporty past.

p0926

I'm going to be extra paranoid with my shifting for a few days, at least.

Ha you think you got problems. Try alternating between two cars, one with reverse to the lower right and the other with it to the upper left. Then add to the mix that one has a 6th gear where the 5-speed's reverse is! Talk about dangerous possibilities :surprise:

-Frank

p0926

I passed by a Subaru dealer yesterday and saw a new Tribeca which got me to thinking about the dearth of mid-size SUVs with manual transmissions. Even the MT-friendly Subaru doesn’t offer it in their Tribeca. In fact, of all the mid-size SUVs currently on the market, I can think of only one that is offered with a manual and that’s the base model Porsche Cayenne. You use to be able to get a manual equipped Pathfinder or 4Runner but no longer. So wouldn’t it be smart for Subaru or some other manufacturer to offer a MT-equipped mid-size SUV and fill that niche or is the demand really that low that it’s not worth the cost?

-Frank

habitat1

A sports car that will make us forget the Z06?

I'm not a big fan of the Z06, but on the other hand, I don't think Nissan will make us forget anything other than the dangers of obesity.

That GT-R "sports car" weighs 850 lbs more than my 5 passenger 4 door 1995 Maxima SE. And only about 400 lbs less than our old Isuzu Trooper. It might post a respectable time at the Nurburgring, but for driving my daily routes, I think it will be about as far apart in feel from my old Honda S2000 as Rosie O'Donnel would from Gwyneth Paltrow.

xrunner2

Hopefully I won't get too much attention from cops.

Regarding "red" - Many years ago I had a red Firebird. I was stopped a number of times by cops once for a supposed turn signal infraction, the others for going over the speed limit. Talked my way out of everything except for one ticket for going 36 in a 30 (radar). Went to court once with a lawyer to beat another speeding ticket, Previous car to red Firebird was a dark blue Mustang and was never stopped and succeeding car was a blue Firebird and was never stopped. I swore I would never, and never did, buy another red car.

Good luck with your GTI. I had a 77 Scirrocco (77-86) with 4-speed, and except for rust problems, it was a fun car.

boaz47

Now that was funny.

nippononly

I would think that even if they offered a manual in a midsize SUV, dealers would assume there was so little public interest that they would never stock any. And we all know how well car configurations do that have to be ordered rather than just bought off the lot (among volume brands)...

qbrozen

I was about to type almost the same thing.

I drive my 6-speed Accord about 700 miles a week right now, so for those few times I jump in my pickup, I really gotta keep my mind on the fact that I have no 6th gear. I have gone into autopilot maybe twice or 3 times ... luckily I shift slowly in high gears and a gentle grind reminds me where I am.

For some reason, I have never done this in my Alfa, though. I never forget what car I'm in when I'm driving that. (why i can forget while in a 14-year-old pickup compared to my '06 Accord might be a story in and of itself, huh?)

hudsonthedog

I passed by a Subaru dealer yesterday and saw a new Tribeca which got me to thinking about the dearth of mid-size SUVs with manual transmissions. Even the MT-friendly Subaru doesn’t offer it in their Tribeca. In fact, of all the mid-size SUVs currently on the market, I can think of only one that is offered with a manual and that’s the base model Porsche Cayenne. You use to be able to get a manual equipped Pathfinder or 4Runner but no longer. So wouldn’t it be smart for Subaru or some other manufacturer to offer a MT-equipped mid-size SUV and fill that niche or is the demand really that low that it’s not worth the cost?

Have you noticed that Subaru doesn't offer a manual with ANY six-cylinder model? You can get stick-shift Legacy four-cylinder models but opt for a six and you are required to get the automatic as well. For the HANDFUL of stick-shift Tribecas that they'd sell, it would cost them a fortune to get the car certified for sale in the US.

I'm more impressed when some manufacturer actually offers a stick. In the US where over 90% of light vehicles are sold with automatics, it must be expensive to just certify a stick.

I'm among the 10% who drive stick-shift cars (I have four of them), so I can appreciate the desire. But we are the minority by a longshot. In most cases, it doesn't make business sense to even certify the vehicles with a second transmission. I'm glad that Jaguar was stupid enough to offer the X-Type with a stick...but if I were on the other end, it would have never happened.

xwesx

I like to think I have a 4th (er, 5th) gear in my '69 C20 after not driving it for weeks or months. I hop in, shift from 2 to 3 to 4, then pop it out of 4, hesitate for a moment, and sheepishly slip it right back in.

It sure could use a 5th gear.

michaellno

I had the same problem when we had our '99 New Beetle.

I'd be cruising along in 5th gear and look to upshift to the (nonexistent) 6th gear.

Oops!

bumpy

Muncie 465? You can get an auxiliary overdrive unit that bolts onto the back of the transmission case in place of the tailshaft. I really need one for the GMC, but no one makes anything to match the wacky bolt pattern on the back of its 4-speed.