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They are right now, but do remember that the M5 was originally SMG-only, as was the M6. It took nearly a year for a traditional manual to appear on those cars, and every reviewer that tested a 3 pedal M5 complained of how sloppy the shifter was.
The new M3 was initially rumored to debut with BMW's dual clutch transmission, with a 6-speed following suit months or even a year later. Development delays reversed that, apparently.
Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW, VW, Nissan, and soon Porsche, Ford, and GM will be pushing computer-controlled manuals on all of their performance models. It is latest in technological "enhancements" and therefor, an important addition to their cars and their images. Americans overall prefer cars with two pedals, plus fewer engine/transmission combinations mean less money they need to certify everything.
Europeans are used to manuals, so they don't mind it when some neat, whiz-bang technology from Formula 1 and WRC makes it into their cars. We Americans, driving in a sea of slushboxes and a market that seems to hate our choice of three pedals, go against that grain and do whatever we can to preserve our joy.
Sad, but true.
But hey, three pedals still exist today, and the new Corvette ZR-1 has an upgraded Tremec 6060 to play with. Six speeds and three pedals, baby, yeah!
Yep, this is exactly what happened to me. It was frustrating to NOT see the RL with a manual and I walked away concluding it was their luxury entry but at the same time thinking it didn't "ride" with the other super-luxos... the engine seemed odd..... We drove a TL off the lot and have enjoyed it, but, will probably be returning to a Saab sedan with a manual, a family trait now for years. Yes, I'm one of those weird "Saab people", even our extended family is.... My brother was horrified when he found out we bought an Acura and said "you'll be back", in his best Darth Vader voice.
The Japanese seem to do really well with small and sport type cars with manual and start getting "drifty" with larger sedans. The European makers have always had the better manuals (my opinion), especially when you start going towards sedans..... Next manual throw is definitely going to be European. The TL was an interesting departure for awhile.....
OK, they were FWD, but imagine a flagship like that today, with SH-AWD. :shades:
BMW E36 M3...almost 15 years after its introduction it still defines benchmarks in certain areas. I think there are a number of vehicles that can approach it in a given area, but none with the overall package, and those vehicles are 10-12 years newer.
Lexus LS400...the original one, redefined what a luxury car should be, what it should drive like, and how it should embrace the occupants.
I would rather have an S2000 than a Z3/Z4.
I haven't found this to be true. My mileage on the Legacy and they Accord is typically much higher than what I see people whining about in the "real world mpg" forums. Driving is also more than a 0-60 thing for me. As thrilling as it is watching trained monkeys floor a car in a straight line, that really doesn't do it for me (nor does it on a bike...especially a 500cc). Driving is about the experience for me, and part of that experience is interacting with the vehicle (other than messing with the audio doo-dads that keep you occupied since the slushbox is so boring to drive).
Especially holding a gear at too high an rpm while cruising down side streets just so you can wake everyone up.
Oh yeah, because it no fun at all to hold 3rd gear on in car while merging on the highway as the revs come up and it hits its powerband...
Line of the week. Congratulations.
As I have said numerous times (as you know but recent posters may not), a manual transmission allows you to shift only if you want, exactly when you want & precisely how you want. Skip gears, change your mind in mid-shift (traffic changes), leave it in neutral for an extended period. . .whatever.
Oh, and they cost a fraction of what an automatic does in terms of maintenance & (especially) major repair or replacement. Of course, none of that matters if you only rent (lease) cars & always depend on the warranty instead of inherent reliability & maintainability.
YMMV.
I am sorry, I certainly didn't mean that as an insult to monkeys.
Sure do - and the Legend GS 6-speed ran $42,800 back in 1995! I bought a Maxima SE 5-speed for $20,800 back then. A BMW 525i was around $41,000.
Anyone that thinks a $50-55k RWD RL couldn't compete with a $60-70k 535i/550i may not remember how relatively well they did before the Legnend became the RL.
Same with NASCAR. People like to see other people biting it and breaking stuff. Its not racing or skill, its shock value entertainment. Its the same reason everyone has to look at a car accident.
Not to mention that I read that a typical NASCAR designed car would suffer suspension and tire damage if one attempted to drive it around the banked oval clockwise, instead of counterclockwise. Hell even the old demolition derby cars could at least manage a figure 8. Pretty embrassing that this is what the world sees as the intelligence level of the typical Bubba American.
Oh come on now, don't be so gullible! I'm no fan of NASCAR but I do know that they occasionally race on road courses
-Frank
If you are going to race on an oval going counterclockwise, you setup the car for racing that way, not so it car turn equally well both ways when they don't need to for that race. And yes, Nascar does run road courses, Watkins Glen is probably the most famous.
I would like to see some take a CART/Formula car that has been setup for the INDY 500 and drive it on a road course
However that doesn't have much to do with Transmissions. :P
Can the average Bubba drive a stick?
In WRC, the courses are so spread out it is actually the hope of the team that there are people watching it so they can help right vehicles, etc. At the professional level, crashes are still far and few between. At the amateur level, look out lol. People are watching for big air, etc. I would say F1 crashes are far fewer than NASCAR.
As far as fast in a straight line, the Eclipse, the supercharged M3 and the Camaro were all pretty fast, and still sticks. I guess I am not seeing where you are going with that one.
I have no intention in starting a class warfare forum here in Edmunds, but I hate to tell you, it wasn't the "Bubba's" that went to MIT, Duke, Stanford etc. that made all those achievements possible. They might be driving the tanks smoking a Camel, but they aren't drinking Miller Genuine Draft behind the flight console at NASA.
If you think NASCAR is something to be admired that's fine, but just don't complain about GM going bankrupt while BMW and Porsche roll in profits, catering to a different demographic.
My replacement heavy duty Marlin Crawler transmission(much more overbuilt that stock, even) for my 4Runner cost me $1200.(whole thing including the clutch, brand new condition) Not rebuilt, more like remanufactured. You can't get an automatic for twice that price anymore.
And like I said BMW and Porsche may be making money and GM may be in trouble but GM is still worth more and Toyota still has more cash. And Toyota got in the game way after BMW and Porsche.
That will not address the future of manuals however. And I may agree they will be relegated to the niche market in this country.
But if our economy tanks the niche market could be the hardest hit when people have to decide how to spend their discretionary income.
Does anyone know how much DSGs costs to manufacture versus automatics and traditional manuals? I'm guessing it's a bit less than 6-speed DSG that's out right now, but I expect VW to replace the automatics on the Golf with this sometime late next year. Which would leave that and 3 pedals as the only transmission options.
I know that a new Jetta with a DSG was priced about $1K more than a 5-speed manual back when I bought my 06 TDI back in April of this year. Just for conversation, if you assume a profit margin of 25% built into that $1K price bump, you're looking at a $ 750 increase in costs vs the manual tranny.
I'm not quite sure what you base your comments or conclusions upon, but as of yesterday's stock market close:
GM: $26.64; DOWN about 50% over the past 4 years. Total value: $15.1 billion.
Ford: $6.79; DOWN about 65% over the past 4 years. Total value: $14.3 billion.
Toyota: $107.40; UP about 60% over the past 4 years. Total value: $171.0 billion
BMW: $42.90; UP about 35% over the past 4 years. Value = Private
Porsche $1,405.01; UP 300%+ over the past 4 years. Value = Private
And just for the fun of it:
Dell: $24.48; DOWN about 35% over the past 4 years. Total value: $55.7 billion
Microsoft: $36.06; UP about 30% over the past 4 years. Total value: $337.4 billion.
Apple: $193.91; UP about 1,900% over the past 4 years. Total value $169.5 billion.
You are welcome to your opinions, but almost every time I've taken the time to do facual research, I have come to the conclusion that good upper demographic niche markets and the companies that successfully cater to their preferences, fare far better than their mass market counterparts.
Steve Jobs could afford to buy either GM or Ford and pay for them in i-Phones. NASCAR may sell more Miller Genuine Draft beer; but Formula One sells more Brietling watches. Quantity/mass market is NOT the holy grail.
Regardless, have a happy holidays.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Mind you, I am not sure I could point to a sport who's following is not primarily beer-drinking males. Maybe triathlons or marathons?
What about that one where they all dance together underwater or the ice skating one?
Although I'm sure they would be both be improved with generous drinking.
The automatic upshifts, random rev hanging at redline, clunky and confused behavior when driving aggressively, and overall "boringness" to operate were quite apparent to the both of us. The one thing these automanuals are great for, though, is the "BRAAP!" noise that barks out of the exhaust as a result of the lightning-fast shifts.
I've considered getting a GTI, and it's the only car (within my price range) that I had an honest hesitation to get the manual because of the DSG's availability. Now I no longer have to worry about that decision. I guess these new transmissions aren't as big of a threat to manuals as I initially thought, for enthusiasts at least. :shades:
I hope everyone has a merry Christmas and happy holidays!
Best Regards,
Shipo
My "rat" car is a seventeen-year-old Miata that has not lived a jaded life like some Miatas. It is normal for me to climb into it well after midnight after getting done with a "trip". Sometimes I'll give a ride to a "crashpader" and they're invariably grateful but you could tell they didn't really care for the car.
When we arrived at the lot one brutally cold evening a couple of years ago, we said farewell as we ambled towards our cars. A co-worker in laughed and called out "Is that piece of #$#@ car of yours going to start tonight?" A good-natured ribbing as I heckled back remarks about his "luxo-mobile" and all its quirky requirements for gas and money. Now the crashpader was a little alarmed however and I told him not to worry, it'll start. It didn't and he became more alarmed.
He was confused when I told him to go ahead and get in anyway, "I need your weight, it'll make it easier" and then laughed when he saw the shifter.
Of course you know the usual story by now. The Miata was, of course, a manual and I was ALWAYS in the habit of parking its back end towards the fence in a dead part of the lot that was on an incline - we didn't even have to push it to roll and pop the clutch.
The good part of the story is that "Mr. Luxo-mobile" was dead in the water! A late-model wonder car with a bum battery. He was already outside the car, signalling distress by holding jumper cables - at least he had the presence of mind to carry them. We connected and rev-ed the Miata for a few minutes to accumulate and the Luxo sprung to life. The crashpader tried to make him feel better and told him we didn't start either, but were able to pop the clutch.
By the way, you still owe me that beer "Mr. Luxo-mobile"! Never under-estimate simple physics and simpler machinery.
Unless Ford did something wild and wacky, it would start. The clutch being depressed is kinda the same as the brake pedal interlock on a modern automatic.
I've roll started my car several times, usually to demonstrate that it can be done, and also to show my kids yet another cool thing about manuals. The process is the same as it ever was.... roll, in gear, clutch out... done.
A nice feature of manuals, in general...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am still not having much luck finding a manual in a diesel 3/4 ton. It looks like I might have to expand my search to 1/2 tons. It doesn't look like the Tundra comes with a manual so Ford, Dodge and GM are my only options. But after almost 4 weeks I am not holding my breath.
I have to admit after test driving the brand new Tundra Toyota finally has a full sized truck.
That's weird, all the manual-shift Toyota 4WDs have a switch on the dash to cancel the clutch interlock. Don't Jeeps have that too? I would have assumed they did.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-Frank
So my advice would be to push start it only once, then replace the battery, if that's the problem.
If you leave the lights on, that's a different story.
But...Subarus turn off the lights automatically when you remove the key, so that's not likely to happen. There are seperate parking lamps (low voltage) if you need some light.