Mystery car pix

ab348

So the E_type that is part of the car collection is part of the "Elkhart Collection" being auctioned off by Sotheby's this October. Here is what they say about the Jag:


Please note that this vehicle is being offered on a bill of sale.

THE LIGHTWEIGHT E-TYPE

In 2014, Jaguar picked up where they left off in the 1960s and produced an additional six examples of the revered Lightweight E-Types. However, that number did not include this E-Type, “Car 0,” the first such Lightweight built for promotional use by Jaguar Classic. Not “replicas,” these were brand-new cars built as the originals had been, using the original engineering blueprints and designs as well as much of the original materials and methods. Further, the cars were given chassis numbers not utilized in the original production—thus “completing” the Lightweight E-Type model run. Needless to say, the project drew a great deal of attention, and the Jaguars were eagerly snapped up by private collectors.

The new Lightweight E-Type (LWE) was based on a unibody built by JLR of Whitley, England, and fully wrapped in aluminum panels, which reduces its weight by 250 pounds over the production steel bodies; the shell was reproduced using detailed scans of an original lightweight body. The grade of aluminum and the forming methods were both the same used in the 1960s. It is important to note that while techniques such as high-strength aluminum alloys and bonded structures are now available and could have been used, they intentionally were not, as they would have invalidated the cars for historic racing events. To that end, a roll cage was mounted as standard equipment. The only components uprated have been for safety and durability, such as later oil and water temperature gauges and Willans safety harnesses.

The engine is a Crosthwaite & Gardiner–built 3.8-liter inline-six with an aluminum block with steel liners, significantly reducing weight over the front wheels, and featuring a “wide-angle” aluminum head, dry-sump lubrication system, and either fuel injection or three Weber 45DCOE carburetors. Jaguar quoted over 300 horsepower and 280 foot-pounds of torque at 4,500 rpm, delivered to the rear axle via a close-ratio, fully synchronized four-speed transmission and single-plate clutch. Additional lightweight mechanical components included the radiator, oil cooler, and expansion tank for the coolant. The suspension was fitted with upgraded shock absorbers, controlling the front torsion bars and rear coil springs, while steering is handled by a stock E-Type rack-and-pinion system. Larger 12.25 in. brake discs were mounted at the front, while the perforated 15-inch-diameter wheels were correctly cast of magnesium.

CHASSIS NUMBER S 851001

The LWE offered here, chassis number S 851001, was equipped with a 3.8-liter, six-cylinder engine with triple Weber carburetors and “wide-angle” cylinder head. This car, dubbed “Car 0,” was utilized by Jaguar Classic as a North American press car, widely seen in promotional materials and magazines as well as at the Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion on the Jaguar Special Vehicle Operations stand. Afterward, it was returned to the factory and rebuilt to “new” condition prior to delivery to the current owner. Today, offered from the Elkhart Collection, it has been only gently and occasionally used and now has only 717 miles recorded. Offered with the car is the original presentation, a booklet featuring this very car, a Bremont Jaguar Lightweight E-Type presentation case with watch, and a highly detailed 1:8 scale Amalgam model of this very car.

This is believed to be only the second of the seven new Lightweight E-Types to be offered on the open market, and the opportunity to acquire it from its original collection, with limited mileage and its original accoutrements, is a priceless one. It will place its new owner in a very small club indeed, one of only seven persons who can enjoy the reborn Lightweight’s unbelievable, evocative performance, worthy of the legend.

Here is the entire list of stuff, not just cars:

https://rmsothebys.com/en/home/lots/el20#?SortBy=Default&SearchTerm=jaguar&Category=All Categories&IncludeWithdrawnLots&Auction=EL20&OfferStatus=All availability&AuctionYear=&Model=Model&Make=Make&FeaturedOnly=false&StillForSaleOnly=false&Collection=All Lots&WithoutReserveOnly=false&Day=All Days&CategoryTag=All Categories&TimedOnly=false&OneHubLinkOnly=false&page=1&pageSize=40

stickguy

Thought won’t be cheap. Though might not be the time to bring a collection like that to auction!

ab348

I find the circumstances of that Jag pretty odd. It seems as though Jag identified the extremely rich car collector types as their target market and produced them as an ego exercise for both sides. I don't understand why you would build a new 1963 car and sidestep all the advances in manufacturing and engineering since then. That approach is the opposite of what the makers of the Eagle car did. Of course it would never be actually raced so I suppose that doesn't matter. But I just don't get the appeal.

magnette

Yes, that Mayflower looks about the same age as the one he sold to the pilgrims...

And the Traction Avant is more exotic than some of the others I suppose. They assembled these in Slough - about twenty miles west of London - from the late thirties to 1957 and then also the DS / ID range and some 2Cv's until about 1963.

magnette

It looks like a WW2 ambulance in the background on the left - the sort we see in old war films. They built quite a lot on Austin truck chassis. Again a Dinky toy or similar I think.
I haven't a clue what the ancient light car in the back to the left of the shack / caravan is either - it must be from the early thirties or even earlier. Best guess would be an Austin Seven because there were lots of those, but it could be anything. The government introduced roadworthiness testing for cars from about 1960 - our MOT test - and initially that was a scheme for ten year old cars but they made it three year old cars by the mid sixties. Loads of pre war cars disappeared from then on.

fintail

Fun used car lot there. In the rear right next to a Beetle there's a microcar/bubble car, perhaps a Heinkel? Another slightly larger prewar car behind the "office" trailer.

Car with the "Please walk around" sign appears to be a Vauxhall Cresta PA, then still a current car.

There are a number of Youtube videos on the British car scrappage movement of the 60s, trying to get the old stuff off the road. Also the era when a lot of RHD cars, especially Rolls-Royce, came stateside, not a coincidence.

Here an old Jag meets its end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_lR7yoMpSw

A bunch of old stuff here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOiUWaNicws

That McLaughlin Buick is especially painful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcAFsP8vL4A

magnette

I remember seeing the McLaughlin Buick clip before.

Will look at these others too although it is always sad looking back - but if we hadn't scrapped them we would still have them rotting in gardens etc I suppose.

When I was about twelve I spent the school holidays in Wales playing in an abandoned quarry about a couple of miles from home, where old cars had been dumped - I suppose most of them were from the forties or early fifties - things like Ford Populars, Austin Devons etc.

We played on them all summer and took off various badges etc - even tried to tip them over the edge ( no Health & Safey in those days).

The quarry was filled in by the following year...

magnette

I have been looking at that bubblecar - I believe it is Nobel 200 - a British licence built version of the Fuldamobile


Here is one from about the same angle.

Also a photo of a similar WW2 Austin ambulance - as featured in every film from The Dam Busters to 633 Squadron...

magnette

The car to the left of the shack appears to be a Vauxhall H type Ten-Four - they could have sold that name to the American police although they would never have caught any robbers..

And I only just noticed the Hillman Minx look alike behind the chap in the trilby hat isn't a Hillman - it's one of the first Singer Gazelles - another car I had as a Dinky toy.

stickguy

some odd ball cars in Europe post-war for sure.

fintail

Scrapping those old cars in the 60s is like scrapping 90s-early 00s cars today. It happens all day every day, nobody cares. Plenty of 30s and 40s cars still around that will never be reclaimed, even if given away for free.
Like magnette says, rotting in gardens. Hurts to watch, especially that rare sidemount Buick that appeared to be solid, but at the end of the day, that's how it goes.

Omaha, 1979:

stickguy

Datsun B210 hatch in front row, next to a 4 door FIAT. must have been rare in Omaha.

3rd row right, 1st gen 200sx. and next to the orange Westphalia is an orange Datsun 510. I miss orange cars! also another red Opel GT off to the right.

tmart

I’ll grab the Gremlin and Pacer, and Ford Country Squire.

fintail

I'll pick off the Mitsu Dodge Challenger next to the Pacer, and an 18 window VW Microbus at upper center left, end of the row.

omarman

That 21 window VW Samba looks familiar.

magnette

That red Country Squire - is that a 68?
Cream coloured Dodge Dart mid way along nearest row- about a 67/8 I think as it doesn't have round lights
Red Chevy Nova with black roof along five left of Pacer, and another Dodge - possibly a 70/71 Coronet with that chrome bow tie type grille next to it
Is that a black Volvo Duett wagon in the middle rear block - half way up the right hand side of the left aisle
There's also a gold 164 five cars right of the Pacer

ab348

From the angle I can't really tell the year of the red Country Squire. Could be a '68 but hard to tell. There is a '68 Ford fullsize fastback near the bottom of the pic though. This part of the country was transitioning faster than Texas was according to the earlier pic - aside from the ubiquitous Beetles and variants thereof including a Karmann Ghia, there is a variety of small import cars here including a first-gen Civic, what appears to be an Audi sandwiched between a mastodon Buick and a Beetle, various small Japanese cars, and for those not ready to make the full leap, a number of Pintos, Vegas and even a Gremlin. Easy to see how Chrysler's lack of a small car until 1978 must have hurt their market share (though they were selling Mitsu models under their name and I presume making a little bit of cash doing so)..

stickguy

Audi sedan, I guess a 100, front row next to red beetle

ab348

I suspect this will be easy for at least one of our regulars...

magnette

Very nice indeed to see that one. Never common here either.

fintail

I see the Duett, definitely one of those. A quite rare car even then.

Audi next to the Beetle in the 2nd row was sold here as the Fox.

Funny about the 70s Show VW, as the pic is from roughly when the show takes place.

magnette said:

That red Country Squire - is that a 68?
Cream coloured Dodge Dart mid way along nearest row- about a 67/8 I think as it doesn't have round lights
Red Chevy Nova with black roof along five left of Pacer, and another Dodge - possibly a 70/71 Coronet with that chrome bow tie type grille next to it
Is that a black Volvo Duett wagon in the middle rear block - half way up the right hand side of the left aisle
There's also a gold 164 five cars right of the Pacer

fintail

Alvis TD21 of some variety?

ab348 said:

I suspect this will be easy for at least one of our regulars...

ab348

Yes, it looks very good in the ad. $52K.

ab348

I like this picture as much for the character of the area as the cars. Delancey St., NYC, 1961.

stickguy

Checker cab! Usually assortment of bat wings, and must be a 1960 Ford in there someplace.

magnette

The two cars in the left foreground look like they've had a collision and been pulled over
in particular the smaller car looks like the trunk has been mangled. Not sure about the front right wing on the Cadillac in front but it could be what hit it.
Might just be the angle of the shot and foreshortening of the picture by the lens.
I think the blue or green car crossing from the right is one of those odd Plymouths from 1960 or so.

Lostwrench3

Pop Quiz.
What is the name of the movie?

fintail

What a world, I don't see a single 60 Ford. I will pick off the 58 Ford wagon parked on the street nearest the camera at right.

The small car (Dauphine?) at foreground left does appear to have been in a smash, and the car in front of it (I think maybe a Pontiac or smaller Olds from around 1950) is missing the passenger side front fender.

andys120

The newest car I can ID by model year is the white '61 Chevy starting a left turn near mid -pic.
The oldest might be the black unit in the apparent collision, A GM from the 49-52 era.
I don't see any '60 Ford and I can't think of what movie it might be.

texases

That could be a '61 Valiant, too.

kyfdx

Lostwrench3 said:

Pop Quiz.
What is the name of the movie?

Crossing Delancey?

tmart

58 Ford going away.

bhill2

andys120 said:

The newest car I can ID by model year is the white '61 Chevy starting a left turn near mid -pic.
The oldest might be the black unit in the apparent collision, A GM from the 49-52 era.
I don't see any '60 Ford and I can't think of what movie it might be.

There is also a '61 Plymouth right behind the '58 Ford wagon. Take normal precautions with your eyes before you look for it. Some Pepto-Bismol may be useful once you find it.

magnette

I think the guys who styled Plymouths at that time were taking something a little stronger.

magnette

Five Estates
Sorry the pictures are a bit variable but they are all of post war manufacture despite appearances

Lostwrench3

No movie sleuths out there.
Ok. Although the front of the theater's marquee has blurred lettering, the side lettering is clear with clues.
ROBT wagner
ERNIE kovacs
SAil a crooked ship

A few days after this movie was released, Ernie Kovacs died in an auto accident. Sad. I thought he was a very funny guy.

fintail

As prewar European styling usually lagged American designs by at least a few years, the postwar cars can be expected to have prewar themes. Funny how things change, as Europe has been the styling leader for the past ~40 years or more.

First wagon - British, no idea. Second - IFA something, East German. Third - Fiat (1100?). Fourth - Renault Juvaquatre. Fifth - maybe British?

magnette said:

Five Estates
Sorry the pictures are a bit variable but they are all of post war manufacture despite appearances

andys120

First wagon, English Ford (Popular?)
Second wagon-Borgward something
Third wagon-Fiat 500 Giardinera

Dunno fourth or Fifth.

fintail

Seattle dealer, not a ton to name here, but I thought the building was cool, exactly the kind of place where'd one would buy a new Toronado:

ab348

The mid-'50s Buick (?) parked under the overhang to the left sure looks dated amongst all those '66 Oldsmobiles here.

I'll take a '66 4-4-2 convertible, please.

sda

fintail said:

Seattle dealer, not a ton to name here, but I thought the building was cool, exactly the kind of place where'd one would buy a new Toronado:

That is a cool dealership building, I’m thinking pretty classy at that time. I’m also partial to Olds. You can see a Toro in the showroom. I imagine that building no longer exists.

fintail

Yep, long gone, I have no memory of ever seeing it anyway. Cool style, kind of a mid century lodge, similar to some contemporary residential architecture here. Built in 1964, from what I can find. The dealer still exists, now selling Chevy and Kia.

sda said:

That is a cool dealership building, I’m thinking pretty classy at that time. I’m also partial to Olds. You can see a Toro in the showroom. I imagine that building no longer exists.

stickguy

Looks like a Howard Johnson’s or something like that.

imidazol97

I like the red Olds by the driveway. I'm not sure what it was called then.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

I like the red Olds by the driveway. I'm not sure what it was called then.

Appears to be a F-85 sport coupe.

magnette

Hi Fin, Hi Andy

Well, the five less than sleek estate wagons were as follows

1 Jowett Bradford - they actually sold Bradford as a separate make here in those days (a bit like Bedford with Vauxhall). It was made in Bradford with a flat twin engine developed in the twenties and was made in this form from 1945 to about 1954

2 IFA F9 Kombi - East German refugee from DKW.

3 Fiat 500 Giardiniere Belvedere - this woody version was about 1946 to 50 and then they went for an all metal one.

4 Renault Juvaquattre Dauphinoise -

5 Hillman Minx Mk II station wagon - this was quite rare and is surely now extinct but they made it to about 1950 although it was based on a Commer van and in some markets it would have been sold as a Commer.

magnette

I like the building for that Oldsmobile showroom. Really stylish and reminds me of the places in the US like visitors centres for National Parks or State parks Everywhere we've ever been in the US we always thought those places were great.

I remember in Oregon in 2000 we went to the High Plains Desert Visitor centre at Bend, Or. and it was great, I only saw a picture of it last week in something and it brought back good memories

fintail

Bend is a nice place, I've always liked visiting there.

Something for everyone at this Seattle used car lot:

stickguy

nice mix. white Sunbeam ( I assume Alpine) next to the Rambler. and nose of a MB SL at front.

can't quite tell what the other red roadster in the back is. First blush was another SL, but does not quite look right for that.

andys120

I think the red roadster is another 190SL 9in addition to the one on the extreme left. The roadsters next to the Alpine are both Tiumph TR-3s