Mystery car pix

grahampeters

G'day

Not sure what it is called in the USA, but clearly the daddy (or mum) of the Australian Fairlane of about a year later.

Cheers

Graham

stickguy

'67 Ford country squire?

wgrafer

Pretty rare. It's a '69 Ford Torino Squire! Don't think the wheels are stock...

berri

Oh no Mr. Bill, a downsized family truckster!

explorerx4

If that is supposed to compete with a Mini, it's a fail. Not cool/cute enough. GM obviously things it is.

magnette

Hello Fin
This one was really a one-off... I'd never heard of it until I saw it, but it was called Alart. I think it had about a 1200cc Renault engine, and although I assume it was intended for production I couldn't find any evidence that it went ahead. About 1958, I think.

magnette

The name makes sense as an Opel - the company was founded by Adam Opel. As a Vauxhall, which is how we get it, it makes no sense at all.

andys120

Pretty rare. It's a '69 Ford Torino Squire! Don't think the wheels are stock...

Yup, I recall those wheels from that era but I don't know if they were on that car.

fintail

Thanks, I actually forgot what it was. Weird proportions, the roof is too high, and look at the odd angle of the steering wheel. Ergonomics alone might have killed it.

andys120

berri

64 Pontiac Grand Prix. Seems to me it was the first year the GP really stood out as an entirely separate model. Otherwise, I think 64 in general was a year of disagreement about the big car line up looks at Pontiac. I thought the GP was best looking by a long shot compared to a Bonnie or Catalina that year. But there are some big fans of the 64 line up. Neat pick.

andys120

64 Pontiac Grand Prix. Seems to me it was the first year the GP really stood out as an entirely separate model

It is indeed a '64 GP but '63 was the first year they really styled the Grand Prix to look different from the Catalina it was based on>



The '63 Ponchos were all great looking and IMO the Prix was the best looking GP they ever made.

berri

Forgot about that. Beautiful car, but as you indicated so was the entire full sized line up. 1962 though, I'd go with an Olds Starfire I think. Why can't we get exciting styling today? Too much of the new stuff is too over the top IMO.

andys120

Why can't we get exciting styling today

One word: aerodynamics (there's only so many ways you can shape a vehicle to get good airflow for fuel economy; can you imagine the drag coefficient on a 1960s full-sizer?))

andys120

berri

Well that does look rather aerodynamic A Mercury Cougar - maybe early 90's? Aerodynamics be damned, I'll take an original 67 - just kidding or maybe not! Thanks for taking the time to make all these picture posts. I think everyone really enjoys them.

andre1969

Aerodynamics is part of it, but for the most part a red herring, I think. It was a bigger deal in the late 70's, 80's, and maybe part of the 90's, when it allowed the auto makers to start putting in weaker, smaller engines that got better economy. But today, most engines are pretty economical, and I think a low coefficient of drag is nothing more than bragging rights, unless it's something like a hybrid, that has to squeeze the max mpg out of every single aspect.

But, those 60's full-sized Pontiacs, if you got a Catalina with a low-output engine, could still break 20 mpg on the highway if you were gentle, yet if you needed the power, were good for 0-60 in about 10 seconds. That might sound pathetic today, but remember back then, many base V-8's were taking more like 12-13 seconds, some compact 6-cyls were as bad as 18-20, and the much-vaunted VW Bug was good for about 26-30!

I think the biggest factors in design these days are space efficiency and crash protection/pedestrian safety. That '63 Grand Prix is probably about 210-215" long, yet for practicality, is no more comfortable for four passengers than your typical midsized car of today. It would make a better six-passenger car than any car built today, thanks to the shoulder room. But 3-across seating loses its charm really fast for any significant distance. And, that GP would have a much bigger trunk than most cars of today.

But, most people today don't want something that big. Also, being a low-slung coupe, it's going to be hard to get into and out of. Most cars today are probably about 4-5" taller, and with bigger door openings. That's going to make the proportions less sexy, but does make them more practical. And as for crash protection/pedestrian safety, I'm sure that tones down a lot of styling choices.

I wonder if another reason cars lost a lot of that style of the old days is simply cost? All those complex shapes, angles, creases, etc are probably harder and more expensive to stamp than the simpler designs of today. And even details like grilles, bumpers, trim, badges, etc, were much more intricate back then, and no doubt more expensive.

It may not seem like it today, but when you factor in all the technology, safety, performance, features, etc, today's cars are dirt-cheap in price. A 1963 Grand Prix base-priced at $3,489. In today's dollars, that's $26,250. However, by the time you equipped one nicely to roughly correspond with today's cars...power windows, locks, seat, air conditioning, and so on (I wonder if power steering and brakes were still optional on a GP?), you'd probably have that car up to $5,000. Which would be around $37,600. For a car that doesn't have air bags, ABS, traction control, etc. So, to keep prices somewhat affordable, over the years, manufacturers had to cut costs somewhere.

I have a feeling that if they tried to put the detail and intricacy into a modern car that they did into a '63 Grand Prix, the price would be so high that few people would bite.

andys120

A Mercury Cougar - maybe early 90's?

Yep, it's a '90s Mercury Cougar which was basically a rebodied Ford Probe/ MazdaMX-6.

uplanderguy

I love mid-sixties big Pontiacs. Not crazy about the '64 Grand Prix from the rear though, as the 'boomerangs' designed for the taillights were filled in on the Grand Prix. I would very much enjoy a '64 Catalina 2+2 in that salmon color with a white painted top.

I love the '65 big Pontiacs best of all, but the Grand Prix lost some distinction with the addition of fender skirts, and the Bonnevilles of that entire '60's era are a little too long in the caboose IMHO, with the few extra inches of wheelbase although they have beautiful interiors I think.

I was glad they did away with that enormous Bonneville emblem they used to put on the side of the cars...it looked like a big spaceship. It was most weird I think on the '64 car, when it was placed ahead of the front wheel openings.

I've mentioned this before, but in '67--Andre's year--the choice in full-size Pontiacs was truly amazing. Catalina, Ventura option on Catalina (removed all Catalina nameplates), 2+2, Executive (identical trim level as Ventura but on the longer wheelbase), Bonneville, Bonneville Brougham, and Grand Prix. Grand Prix, Catalina, 2+2, Bonneville, and Bonneville Brougham convertibles available! Even a two-door sedan in the Catalina series. Ahhhhhh, what choice.

tjc78

Ahhhhhh, what choice.

Yeah and that was just one division of GM. How many other divisions had the same cars as well? How the executives at the time could think having so many different models/colors/options/etc was a good thing I'll never know. I guess the fact that they were selling boatloads of cars and were the "king" of the industry clouded their judgement!

uplanderguy

It sure was great to have that level of choice, though....unlike now.

Add in probably eighteen paint colors, and the chance of you never seeing a duplicate of your car was the norm. Now, I see two identical cars, and I mean identical even per the window sticker, sitting next to each other on a dealer's new-car lot. Sigh.

fintail

As you know, It was such a different world, platform sharing wasn't such a huge issue when the products were so well-differentiated, usually nicely styled, and there was still a large and prosperous middle class to eat up these products. GM suits still "got it" then.

It got bad in the 70s and especially 80s. There was a Ciera in my family - not much differentiated it from its platform clones. An uncle had a Firenza - even worse. Although the cars could still be individually specified to a good degree, the consumer got wise. The suits didn't get it, so much.

andre1969

I don't think I've ever seen an exact duplicate of my '67 Catalina. Usually at the GM show in Carlisle, 3 or 4 other 67's will show up, but they're almost always Bonnevilles. I guess the Bonneville in general had a better survival rate, as old-car buyers tend to seek out the higher-spec models.

Back in 2010, I went out to a classic car show in Macungie, PA. I parked my '67 Catalina, and a moment later a '67 Impala convertible parked next to me, and then a '67 Olds 88 (can't remember if it was a Delta or Delmont?) parked next to it. What are the odds of seeing three '67 GM convertibles of different brands parked side by side, I wonder?

It also seems that the pale creamy yellow on my Catalina is fairly rare. There was a similar color, that I think Chevy called Butternut and Pontiac called Mayfair Maize, but it's a bit more, well, buttery, and less washed out. That Butternut/Mayfair Maize seems like it was the more common of the two.

And, as for options, I guess my Catalina would be a bit rare for having air conditioning and a tilt steering wheel.

If I still had my '68 Dart and took it to the Mopar show in Carlisle, I'm sure I'd see at least a few twins to it. Going to that show, you'd think that every single '67-69 Dart hardtop and convertible survived. But then again, most of them are GTs or GTS'es with 340's. Mine was just a 270 with a 318 V-8.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen a '57 DeSoto that's a twin to mine, but there used to be one that was close that lived about 40 miles away. It was a Firedome hardtop coupe, like mine, but was a salmon/white, whereas mine is red/white. And it had the single headlight setup, whereas mine has the quads.

But, nowadays, choices are so limited that I see twins all the time. Even with my 2000 Park Ave Ultra, I see clones of it on a regular basis. Its sandstone/driftwood color must have been very common. One of my friends, who's not really into cars, even commented jokingly, was that the only color Buick offered?!

stever

People are always popping in or putting their car on craigslist saying it's one of 1,000 made, thinking the rareness makes it worth more.

But even though you may have the only purple eggplant '94 Voyager with a 4 banger and manual transmission, gold badging and factory leather, that doesn't mean it's worth any more than a more common one.

It's a mystery (and don't worry, I'll spare y'all a car pic of a Voyager in that color. :shades: )

andre1969

Actually, I remember that eggplant color. As I recall, it was somewhat popular at the time.

And yeah, often if something is only one of 1000 made or whatever? Well, often the reason it's so rare is because nobody wanted it when it was new! :P

fintail

Eggplant with gold trim, that just screams 1994. My dad had a kind of dark blue-green Grand Voyager, I think a 1993. It had gold trim. It was replaced in 1998 by a T&C that was pearl white with gold trim. Classy!

My E55 is a very rare color, definitely less than 100 units in the country in this color over the 4 model year span of the model on the platform. Doesn't add any real value.

ateixeira

There was a busy Cougar thread back then, and I remember peeking in and reading about someone who was going to "wax their [non-permissible content removed]".

I kid you not.

andys120

ateixeira

Guessing...Ford Ranchero? 79 was the year before I moved to Brazil.

fintail

I think it's around a 1970 model.

andre1969

Yeah, it's either a '70 or '71 Ranchero, but with the missing grille, I can't ID it. Maybe the hubcaps would give away the year?

tjc78

Eggplant with gold trim, that just screams 1994

For some reason IIRC Chrysler products seemed to be the most popular in the Eggplant/Gold and the Hunter green/Gold configurations. GM and Ford not so much.

Lots of hunter green 92+ Camrys as well.

uplanderguy

Definitely a '70 or '71. Seems that I rarely ever saw a Ranchero of that era back then.

This, for some reason, reminded me that the domestics used to, generally, be on a two-year styling cycle. As a kid from a Chevy family, I loved hanging around the local dealer when I knew they'd be getting the new models in and sticking them inside, or way out back.

Every year (early to mid'70's), I'd be thinking, "Time for a new Impala and Caprice". Year in, year out, I'm like "It's still basically the '71!". Those are the first GM's I can remember having a six-year styling cycle. Of course, the '77 was huge automotive news and it's hard to imagine if you weren't around, or aware, then.

andys120

Yea, you're looking at a 1970 Ford Ranchero 500.

lemko

The hubcaps are from a 1966 Mustang. Funny thing is, back in the day, my Dad had a gold 1970 Ford Torino two-door hardtop with a black vinyl roof and his friend had a silver 1971 Ford Torino two-door hardtop with a black vinyl roof.

odie6l

And here is the newer version (which I still wish we could get here) that is sold in AU.


Odie

stever

Just like a Brazilian to post that. :P

andre1969

My Dad had a goldish colored 1971 Torino 4-door sedan that he inherited when my Great-Granddad passed away in 1977. I can't remember if it had a vinyl roof or not. It had a 302 V-8. Dad took it when he moved to Florida after the divorce, but I think it threw a rod around the 100,000 mile mark, and he junked it.

ateixeira

Just call it a "getting a Brazilian" and be done with it.

kyfdx

"How much is a brazilian?"

ateixeira

No idea never got one!

kyfdx

It's an SNL reference... Will Ferrell doing George Bush...

"how much is a brazillion?"

Get it?

grahampeters

G'day

The Ford Falcon Utility is a distinctly Australian invention. It arose from a letter from a Victorian farmer's wife to Ford Australia asking for “a vehicle to go to church in on a Sunday and which can carry our pigs to market on Mondays”. The 1934 Ford Coupe Utility was the result.

Holde and Valiant, also produced Utilities (or Utes as they are usually known)
They remain very popular, although far less utilitarian today, often tricked up like the current model above. They have usually had leaf springs and live rear axle, often mated to large straight six cylinder or V8 engines. The light rear end and powerful engines make for tricky handling, but fun for burn outs, if you are a young country boy (sometimes girls) and ideally well fuelled up on over-proof rum or too much beer.

A culturally important event is the "Deni Ute Muster", held each year at Deniliquin, in Southern New South Wales. Last year, 2,939 utes turned up. http://www.deniutemuster.com.au/events/?EventGroupID=2

As a general rule, I give utes a wide berth, especialy if they loook too shiny. There is a fair chance the driver is inexperienced and dangerous.

Cheers

Graham

andys120

The Ford Falcon Utility is a distinctly Australian invention

I don't think so Graham, car-based Utes were running around the USA long before 1934, many of them were Model Ts like this 1927 Ford>



I've long thought it curious that the El Camino/Ranchero style "Utes" are so popular in Oz with it's huge Outback areas and many unimproved roads. You'd think real pickups would be more suitable.

Meanwhile here in the US with it's unmatched highway network we use big pickups to drive to the mall or go to work. Hardly any of them ever see dirt.

Go figure? :confuse:

andys120

explorerx4

Here are the same hub caps without the trim rings

berri

I actually just saw something like this the other day. It was a BMW 1 coupe. Kind of a British touch to its style I guess. The one I saw was the same color driven by a blue hair lady in a similar manner to a school bus! Personally, the 1 series is just too small for my tastes. I'm not fond of the tiny Mercedes either.

stickguy

BMW M Coupe. I like it. Just need one with a moonroof.

andys120

Yup that is the Z3-based BMW M Coupe (E36/4- 1991-2002) affectionately known among Propeller Heads as "The Shoe" (note side view>)



There was a non-M version known as the Z3 Coupe.

The blue car parked behind is an E39 Five Series identical to my 2000 528i.

andys120