Mystery car pix

stickguy

suicide bird. I will guess it is a 69

bhill2

I almost perversely wanted to own one of those. It's just such a monstrous perversion of what TBird originally was.

andys120

stickguy said:

suicide bird. I will guess it is a 69

Good guess, it's a '69 Ford Thunderbird.

Mr_Shiftright

I call these mutant 'birds.

andys120

kyfdx

900 Turbo.. I'll guess '89?

Mr_Shiftright

SCENE: A dark garage. A shadowy shape with its hood open. Three mechanics hover over it.

(they chant)

Double, double toil and trouble;
Transmission burn, and head gasket bubble.

lostwrench1

Transmission burn - my sister's Chevy Citation
Head gasket bubble - my '51 Nash
But the chant is A shadowy shape.......
One car with both problems. Hmmm.

tmart

Mr_Shiftright said:

I call these mutant 'birds.

Agreed. Definitely no Thunder!

andys120

kyfdx said:

900 Turbo.. I'll guess '89?

Not your run of the mill 900 Turbo. It's a 1985 Saab 900 Turbo SPG (SPG=Special Performance Group), sold in most markets as the 900 Aero but not in the US because of trade mark problems.

Believe it or not 160bhp from a 2 liter,TC turbo motor was considered a big deal in the mid 80s

The best way to tell if it's an SPG, the 3-spoker wheels.

omarman

andys120 said:

kyfdx said:

900 Turbo.. I'll guess '89?

Not your run of the mill 900 Turbo. It's a 1985 Saab 900 Turbo SPG (SPG=Special Performance Group), sold in most markets as the 900 Aero but not in the US because of trade mark problems.

Believe it or not 160bhp from a 2 liter,TC turbo motor was considered a big deal in the mid 80s

The best way to tell if it's an SPG, the 3-spoker wheels.

January 1985 C&D praised the Porsche 944, "For the third year in a row, we were unanimous in our choice of the Porsche 944 as one of the Ten Best Cars available to American buyers."

With a base price of $21,440 (1985) and its 2.5 non-turbo 4 cylinder putting out 143hp C&D stated, "It is the car that every major manufacturer hopes he’s building when he sets his mind to a new sports car."

Mr_Shiftright

Well in a sense that's correct--the 944, in the right configuration and driven by the right driver, is still a hell of a sports car, with excellent handling and braking. By 1985 standards, it was a great buy for the money.

Reliability, not so much. But a damn sight better than a Saab Turbo. The 900 was fun to drive in its own way, though, but a 944 could dance around it.

The one you might want is the 944 Turbo.

kyfdx

My aunt had an ‘85 Mark VII LSC with 5.0 V-8.

Pretty sure it was rated at 160-165 HP. Seemed pretty quick, at the time.

omarman

RE: 1985 Porsche 944
"By 1985 standards, it was a great buy for the money." No I don't think I'd go that far.

Even in 1985 terms a base 944 at $21K really wasn't that much bang for the buck. Japan was building a lot of fun stuff back then for a lot less money than that.

VW GTI was a great buy for the money, yes. But Japan Inc created brand loyalty deep in that category even as America and Europe struggled to compete. To me that is the story of the 80s.

A Honda dealer was advertising new CRX Si for $9,995 in the Columbus Dispatch in 1985. Over 30 years later people still love them. Remember the 80's when a Porsche 944 was a great buy for the money? No.

andys120

Omar, Omar! The CRX Is was a terrific little car but then and now enough people would gladly pay the freight for a thoroughbred RWD sports car. You're comparing apples to oranges, It's true that the Japanese makers really established themselves in the 80s but the "brand loyalty" you speak of manifests itself now the for of mass sales of mainstream sedans not sports cars where the Germans more than hold their own.

Porsche did pretty well by the 944/968 which kept them in the game and they now command the highest profits per unit in the industry. A Porsche is never going to compare to a Honda in bang for the buck, unless you really love to drive!

kyfdx

Plus, it's a Porsche.. Value is relative. I don't think anyone means to say that it's the best bang for the buck.

You could look at a $75K Corvette, and say that a 911 is grossly overpriced, but that doesn't make the Vette a better car. (It might be, but just because it's cheaper and faster doesn't make it so)

omarman

Oh I know what you're saying. I still recall the European brands recoiling at the upstart Japanese competition back then. It's really not a thing against Porsche.

Was Jaguar the best luxury car in the world of 1982? No.

omarman

kyfdx said:

Plus, it's a Porsche.. Value is relative. I don't think anyone means to say that it's the best bang for the buck.

"By 1985 standards, it was a great buy for the money." That's not bang for the buck speak?

Seriously I was not trying to quote anybody out of context.

omarman

Maybe not mystery car, but since we have no mystery SUV topic.

andys120

Was Jaguar the best luxury car in the world of 1982? No.

Jaguar has never been the best luxury car in the world at any time but what's the point, that the Japanese were killing the Euros in the 80s? Sure they were but the Japanese were killing everybody back then, gobbling up market share left and right. Eventually they would drive two of the Big Three into bankruptcy but the Euros managed to come back in the luxo market thanks mostly to Mercedes and BMW. Perhaps they did a better job of countering the Japanese threat but now must face the Koreans and Chinese.

It's a rough business.

Mr_Shiftright

omarman said:

RE: 1985 Porsche 944
"By 1985 standards, it was a great buy for the money." No I don't think I'd go that far.

Even in 1985 terms a base 944 at $21K really wasn't that much bang for the buck. Japan was building a lot of fun stuff back then for a lot less money than that.

VW GTI was a great buy for the money, yes. But Japan Inc created brand loyalty deep in that category even as America and Europe struggled to compete. To me that is the story of the 80s.

A Honda dealer was advertising new CRX Si for $9,995 in the Columbus Dispatch in 1985. Over 30 years later people still love them. Remember the 80's when a Porsche 944 was a great buy for the money? No.

Well I meant a "great buy" if you wanted a really good handling, good braking sports car. I can't think of anything Japanese that wouldn't end up with smoking brakes and squishy shocks after a hot lap. You could MAKE a Japanese car handle and brake, but you couldn't buy one like that. You also have to consider build quality. People bought Japanese cars back then for reliability in the 1980s and that's how they won the car wars.

kyfdx

omarman said:

Maybe not mystery car, but since we have no mystery SUV topic.

Suzuki X90

Mr_Shiftright

You could even buy it with AWD. They didn't sell very many, for some odd reason

omarman

kyfdx said:

omarman said:

Maybe not mystery car, but since we have no mystery SUV topic.

Suzuki X90

That's the one. About 10 years ago somebody in my neighborhood drove a black X90 which didn't stick around long. Either the owner moved or moved on to something other than Suzuki.

kyfdx

omarman said:

kyfdx said:

omarman said:

Maybe not mystery car, but since we have no mystery SUV topic.

Suzuki X90

That's the one. About 10 years ago somebody in my neighborhood drove a black X90 which didn't stick around long. Either the owner moved or moved on to something other than Suzuki.

About 6-10 years ago, I used to see one parked at an office building on my way to work. I moved locations after that, but it was a daily driver for a solid 4 years, evidently.

texases

omarman said:

kyfdx said:

Plus, it's a Porsche.. Value is relative. I don't think anyone means to say that it's the best bang for the buck.

"By 1985 standards, it was a great buy for the money." That's not bang for the buck speak?

Seriously I was not trying to quote anybody out of context.

What car was better than the 944 for less money?

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe the Audi GT coupe? The BMW 635CSi was way more expensive. The Alfa GTV-6 was a fun, fast, good handling coupe, but of course problematic. The Porsche 911 considerably more expensive and probably not as capable as the 944. The Datsun 300ZX Turbo was in the same price range, but really more of a GT car than a sports coupe.

omarman

texases said:

omarman said:

kyfdx said:

Plus, it's a Porsche.. Value is relative. I don't think anyone means to say that it's the best bang for the buck.

"By 1985 standards, it was a great buy for the money." That's not bang for the buck speak?

Seriously I was not trying to quote anybody out of context.

What car was better than the 944 for less money?

Car buyers already answered that question back in the 80's but...

If I had to spend my own money on the best-bang-for-buck import from anywhere in 1985, it's a CRX Si.

German brand for 1985? GTI.

I mean that the market speaks its own truth and as posted before that answer can be "rough." But as far as the individual buyer who is just voting his wallet for preference, then it's just anyone's opinion.

For me, an import 2+2 with a 4 pot soul and no turbo, well price and future dealer repairs are going to weigh huge in the balance. A $21k purchase in 1985 would be around $49k now.

edit to add: I can't keep the Datsun/Nissan change straight. Was the 280ZX turbo called Datsun? And then Nissan with the 300ZX turbo?

texases

I had the GTI. Great car, but not a 944. The Si was fun, but also not a 944 in terms of overall handling. Look, I ended up in the GTI after getting close to getting the 944. But ignoring price I would have gotten the 944.

That's my yardstick: ignoring price, which was the better car? 944 wins for me. No cheaper car was a superior sports car.

Mr_Shiftright

You got what you paid for in both cars. Neither buyer should have any complaints. 1985 wasn't exactly an embarrassment of riches for sports sedan lovers.

fintail

If it was 1985 and I had the money, I'd get a grey market W126 AMG. That was back when such things were possible, before MBUSA bribed its way into the most repressive and regressive private import rules in the developed world (USA! USA!).

omarman

texases said:

I had the GTI. Great car, but not a 944. The Si was fun, but also not a 944 in terms of overall handling. Look, I ended up in the GTI after getting close to getting the 944. But ignoring price I would have gotten the 944.

That's my yardstick: ignoring price, which was the better car? 944 wins for me. No cheaper car was a superior sports car.

You voted with your wallet and got the GTI. So the 944 wins for you only if you could ignore the price?
But who shopped the 944 without $ticker price on their mind? You didn't.

Friends I would have gone big on a car shopping spree in 1985 if the money was no object. And I would not have driven home in either a CRX Si or a base 944. Fintail makes a good point about the grey market possibilities at that time if we are ignoring the price.

But that's not the market history of the car biz in the 1980s.

Mr_Shiftright

Buyers didn't cross shop a CRX and a 944. Not on each other's radar. The car mags liked both cars a lot.

Neither one particularly appeals to me either, even though the CRX is in the tradition of the original Mini. But so is the GTI, which appealed to me more at the time.

andys120

stickguy

what about the new (that was 85, right?) style Toyota Supra?

stickguy

red Barracuda. I think it is a 1964. No clue what the Mopar barge in front of it is.

fintail

I see relatively recent WA plates on the Barracuda, and not exactly period correct wheels on the 61 Plymouth/modern Lexus predecessor in front of it.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

what about the new (that was 85, right?) style Toyota Supra?

I think that came out in ‘84. A friend of mine had one. He told me his wife’s 900 Turbo with a slushbox was faster.

fintail

Supra generations: 80-81 (fancy trim package, new front clip, big engine in a Celica), 82-85 (wedge), 86-92 (aero wedge, turbo option), 93-98 (the one everyone wants).

qbrozen

omarman said:

Plus, it's a Porsche.. Value is relative. I don't think anyone means to say that it's the best bang for the buck.

"By 1985 standards, it was a great buy for the money." That's not bang for the buck speak? Seriously I was not trying to quote anybody out of context.

What car was better than the 944 for less money?

Car buyers already answered that question back in the 80's but... If I had to spend my own money on the best-bang-for-buck import from anywhere in 1985, it's a CRX Si. German brand for 1985? GTI. I mean that the market speaks its own truth and as posted before that answer can be "rough." But as far as the individual buyer who is just voting his wallet for preference, then it's just anyone's opinion. For me, an import 2+2 with a 4 pot soul and no turbo, well price and future dealer repairs are going to weigh huge in the balance. A $21k purchase in 1985 would be around $49k now. edit to add: I can't keep the Datsun/Nissan change straight. Was the 280ZX turbo called Datsun? And then Nissan with the 300ZX turbo?

Yes, 1984 was the end of the road for the Datsun 280z, followed in 1985 by the Nissan 300z. My '85 had many Datsun branded parts on it.

qbrozen

andys120 said:

900 Turbo.. I'll guess '89?

Not your run of the mill 900 Turbo. It's a 1985 Saab 900 Turbo SPG (SPG=Special Performance Group), sold in most markets as the 900 Aero but not in the US because of trade mark problems. Believe it or not 160bhp from a 2 liter,TC turbo motor was considered a big deal in the mid 80s The best way to tell if it's an SPG, the 3-spoker wheels.

Volvo was right there at that time, too. 155hp in the 2.0 found in the 740 Turbo. No special initials needed.

andys120

fintail

The very pretty and collectible Peugeot 504 coupe, Pininfarina.

andys120

fintail said:

The very pretty and collectible Peugeot 504 coupe, Pininfarina.

Keerect, 1975MY, a huge improvement over the lumpy 504 Sedan

fintail

I like the 504 sedan too. I don't mind the 504 wagon either:



As a piece of industrial design ca, 1969, these cars aren't hard on the eyes. The diesels have a cult following, too.

Mr_Shiftright

A very comfy, roomy car. I owned a 504 and I must say, these cars are seductive. It's one I regret selling.

andys120

stickguy

A Gilbern. Which I only learned of by going down the BaT rabbit hole last week! And part of my family history is Welsh.

andys120

Yup, a 1965 Gilbern GT, essentially built by hand in Wales over a tube frame with MG-B mechanicals

andys120