It's more than the alleged snaprings problem. Avalon, Lexus, Camry have reports of problems with shift hesitation, flares, and so on.
>all but one of them had rotor issues
Strange. You must be hard on brakes. I've had nothing but maintenance on my LeSabres, Centurys before them...
>One mechanic told me they might as well just schedule the first appointment for a rotor resurface when you buy the car. I've had 5 GM cars since 1997, all but one of them had rotor issues. (And
First hint you may have a mechanic who likes to charge for brake work. For a long time replacement has been the brake maintenance step especially if you have rotors that have runout. Resurfacing doesn't cure it. You mechanic may just be behind the times a decade of fifteen years. Good luck. EOD .
I felt the same way when I was 19 as I do now (I'm 30), looks are VERY important in my car, even if I'm looking at a mid-size "family sedan".
That's one of the (many) reasons why I picked my Mazda6 over everything else, along with great handling, brakes, steering, and sporty character of the car. Interior space may be lacking compared to everyone else, but I don't live in the back seat, and I have passengers in the back quite often (notably co-workers, clients, and friends) and NOBODY has complained about any lack of room, even behind my seat, which is as far back as possible.
Reliability? Face it, buying ANY car is a risk, even a Honda or Toyota. Having said that, after 2 years and 36K miles, I've only had a faulty gas cap (replaced under warranty). It hasn't left me stranded or late for anything.
Resale? Please... A car is a terrible investment, no matter how you look at it. Buying a Toyota or Honda isn't worth the price premium to get a few extra $$$ back at trade-in.
AFAIC, there are excellent choices, both foreign and (gasp!) domestic, that fit the needs of all mid-size sedan buyers. That's the best part.
When I was 19 (I'm now 19.5 ) I wanted a lot of things. But the things I wanted I couldn't acquire.
I agree 100% with thegraduate. Good job, I applaude your rational thinking. As a postscript, looks are important, but I wouldn't not buy a car because I didn't like the looks. (Aztec excepted)
Cheap headliners = thin cardboard covered by thin cloth (or perhaps vinyl, I guess)...you know the ones that sound hollow and feel like you could poke right through it without much effort. Cloth starts looking like it is not attached all that well before too long.
High quality headliner...see VW, for example.
I'm not sure what you are doing in your car that you get the headliner dirty in the first place, but whatever...
Gas Mileage vs. Power compromise (A hot rod that guzzles or a slowpoke that sips fuel was not something I'd consider) -Fusion out; 4-cyl doesn't match economy of the other models (24/34 vs something like 24/31...I drive hwy a lot)
On the power side, I'd not give too much weight to peak HP numbers. I would drive to see if the power is adequate for me and also look at acceleration numbers.
On gas mileage, assuming EPA numbers are accurate, even if real gas mileage is 3 mpg difference...this amounts to about $80 per 10,000 miles. Not enough to be a factor for myself.
I think almost all cars are reasonably safe and reasonably reliable. Because of this other factors, such as looks) become more significant in choosing a car, just because the differences are greater, IMO.
If all cars are reasonably safe and reliable, but only a few cars look good to me...then the looks are going to be the thing that matters.
Wanting to buy a car that looks nice (in addition to meeting other criteria) is not about my image, it just about wanting to like the appearance of something I am going to spend $20,000 on and see every day for the next 10 years+.
When I was 19 (I'm now 19.5 ) I wanted a lot of things. But the things I wanted I couldn't acquire.
I agree 100% with thegraduate. Good job, I applaude your rational thinking. As a postscript, looks are important, but I wouldn't not buy a car because I didn't like the looks. (Aztec excepted)
Haha, thanks... I'm a pretty rational person (I save as much as I spend here lately; gotta have $ to move out of the house!), so economy was important for the finance aspect of it. I currently have the car I got when I was 15 (grandmother's old 1996 - now has 165,000mi)...so I hope to keep my new car as long. The longer I keep a car, the more time I have to be saving for the next one (meaning less financed!).
I'm 6'4", so I wanted the room of a midsize. I like to drive, so when double-dating and road-tripping, we take my car, meaning I wanted 4-doors.
Do I think the coupes look a lot better than the 4-door models? Heck yes; but it wasn't worth giving up the utility of a 4-door to me.
The only thing I'd change about my car now that i have it? Make Stability Control available on 4-cyl Accords!
(You mention the Aztec; I don't think I'd take an Element either, although it is pretty practical!)
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Nothing wrong with that. I'm pretty analytical (a natural "numbers" guy) so I tend to look at other things (most efficiency per hp for example) over things like character lines in a car.
Driving any one of these sedans isn't going to make much of a "statement" so style didn't matter that much.
If I was shopping for a convertible it would be an entirely different story though!
Man, what trouble you've had with your GM cars! Sorry to hear that. You definitely have my sympathy. I would never look at another GM car either if I were you.
I do remember that I discovred our then new 02 malibu (your Alero is essentially the same car) had unevenly worn rotor on one side. It didn't shake or anything when braking but I could feel the grooves on the rotor with my fingers. Had them surfaced but could still feel the grooves. Fortunately the brakes never gave us any trouble the entire time we owned it althought they had been fairly weak from day one in the sense that it required some force to apply them.
Other than that it was overall a very reliable and comfortable car in the 3+ years and 30K+ miles.
I see that you had a 96' Accord. That's a pretty decent car, is it an EX or LX? I recently just handed down my 97' Accord LX to my sister, it has 110,000 miles on it. Although now I am driving a better car I still missed my old ride sometimes. I think even though the 94-97 Accord is smaller than the later models, the fit and finish and interior material quality are far superior.
>It didn't shake or anything when braking but I could feel the grooves on the rotor with my fingers.
If you had a problem rotor you would feel it when braking. The concentric grooves are from normal brake wear. If you had them resurfaced and the grooves were still there they didn't do the job right. I'm glad you say the brakes never gave you any trouble: "the brakes never gave us any trouble the "
It is an LX I-4 model. It is a great car, although it now has a rattle in the front passenger seat that I can't find (although it goes away when someone rides in it!), it also has a bad rear-passenger side door-lock actuator. No biggies for the age of the car though.
The build quality is excellent, even inside after years of use, although I wouldn't call it abused.
I understand actuator (power lock) problem isn't as bad as an alternator or fuel-injector problem - you can keep driving and you can still operate the lock manually. But I have noticed this in my Mazda Protege 02 as well. Japanese made vehicles tend to have more actuator problems - do they all get it from the same stupid supplier? I wonder why people who get powertrains right can't get this little actuator right.
Yes, I paid $200! This is not a repair that you need... but it's just one of those things that your friends keep pointing out till you become mad :mad:
Bye the way, 02 Protege has been very nice. It has now 38000 miles on it. Still on original tires and battery. It needed 3 repairs in 4 and 1/2 years: one engine emission valve repair, one power door lock (actuator) repair, front brake repair (just the shoes, not rotor). Almost nothing compared to the terrible 99 Blazer that I traded in for a CR-V. I will feel very guilty trading this Protege in next year for an Accord/ Altima/ Mazda6 :P
Nothing was wrong with our Malibu. Except it was totaled in a rear end accident at a stop light. After the insurance pay off and everything in the end we ended up paying ~$3K for the 3 years and 36K something miles of usage. Not bad at all for ANY car. We were quite sad to see it go. The car was like a beloved faithful servant to us.
On a 2002 car, I'd fix it too, but on a car with 5x the miles of yours, and 6 years it's senior, I'm not gonna do it.
I don't blame you for fixing it on your Protege...
I've had a few other repairs on my 96 Accord in 10.5 years, including:
1.)Speedometer failure 111,500 miles- Honda didn't charge labor b/c its such a freaky thing (I don't know the cost, my grandmother had the car at the time)
2.)Brake Master Cylinder leak 155,000 miles- $310
3.)Main Cooling (radiator) fan motor ~130,000 miles- $300
4.)Pass. Rear Pwr Door Lock Actuator- ~$200 (Chose not to repair)
All of this plus regular maintenance, and a few bulbs replaced here and there. Not perfect, but I'd say its well below the average cost of repairs on a ten year old car with such high mileage.
You are joking right? doesn't compare favorably to what else is out there? Have you been out there? You think today's Pontiac's are styled cool? You can't even tell one model from another by the cookie cutter approach to styling. You think the Malibu is cool? Looks like a camel, a creature designed by a committee. A very anal committee. Honda can't decide if they want their cars to look like oversize insects or a jelly beans. You like Ford? I guess that cool styling of the Ford Focus makes you drool. Then there is the whole Nissan "let's make the weirdest looking cars on the planet" philosophy. Mazda seems like one of the few car companies making really racy looking cars that don't put you into foreclosure to buy it. One final thought, Cadillac. Ugh! I rest my case... :sick:
I prefer the sportier looks of the Sonata. The Azera doesn't seem to offer much of anything more in luxury features you would expect from "upgrading" from a top of the line Sonata. Really just more size and a bigger engine.
Sounds like Mazda is behind Honda/ Toyota in quality... In fact, JD Powers thinks the same. But resale values are quite close. My 02 Protege has great resale value.
Good that the Malibu turned out to be reliable. My Blazer was unreliable and I had hard time getting rid of it due to poor resale value (got $3000 for my 99 Blazer LS 4WD having 71300 miles after spending $2200 in the same month for fixing the front axle, bearings, other suspension components - so, net was like $800). I guess the quality and resale value issues are closely linked (at least in my mind). If GM can improve the resale value, I may start feeling positive about GM's quality.
If you've been following the vue, for 2007, the vue hybrid has a 4speed auto, not a CVT. The aura may use a 5speed auto but still, not a CVT. The aura green-line -hybrid- has a 2.4l I4 and the rest is similar to the hybrid VUE. While we're on the topic of saturn vehicles, i guess its good to know that the ion will be dropped for the Astra in a few years.
Well, I'm glad it worked out for you, but I would like to point out that on my 2002 Intrigue, aside from the ISS problem which never was sold (but I did get 3 of them...yippee), I really didn't have SERIOUS trouble until outside the 3/36 window. My car was right around there when I had the power windows fail, and then that was followed by it dying.
But anywy, I think the short term reliability is ok on these things, its the mid-to long term I question. Our other car is an '04 Malibu Maxx...so far, I wouldn't say anything MAJOR has happened except for the brakes. It has had three sets of rotors and on top of that they have been resurfaced 4 times in 21k. I didn't pay a dime for any of that at least and this last replacement seems to have worked a little better. Basically I was told by the Chevrolet Service Advisor that we drive in an extreme environment in terms of traffic (metro DC) and that they brakes simply weren't decided to handle that and get too hot day in and day out. My wife and I moved a few months ago and now carpool in the Camry and so the Maxx no longer has the commute, and presto, the brakes seem ok. (Of course its driven a lot less). The interior quality is getting shoddy (pieces are just breaking here and there) but mechnically it seems fine.
My '01 Alero brakes were a mess. A couple of months after I got it, the rear window came loose. It went into a dealer for almost two weeks for a replacement, and fitting and all of that. They had a hard time because the sealants were messed up. It was never the same after that and prompted me to trade it for the Intrigue--the deal was really favorable.
Hi, Lahiri. I have Mazda Protege 2000. So far, I visited dealer at the very beggining of my purchase of this car for some suspension problem. After that I have now 97,000 miles without any problem. I only change oil and filter every 3,000 miles. I changed coolant once and transmition liquid (automatic). Nothing else. No tune ups, nothing. Never done any of those regular services that are required. In the same time I have to admit that I am careful driver and I take a good care of cleaning my car. My car looks and drives like the first day I purchased it.
Saturn should drop Relay as well. Ion, Relay, CVT VUE were some of the worst products that GM launched - and that's all Saturn launched lately besides a nicer Honda-powered VUE. So, I don't feel very good about Saturn nameplate at this point and I'll stay away from Aura.
I'm a careful driver too. But I can't say the same about many others in the area - I've been rear-ended several times and once the entire trunk had to be rebuilt at a collision shop. Besides I try revving the engine above 5000+ RPM for fun and that probably damaged the emission valve. I'm in the snow belt (Rochester-NY) and I can't really blame Mazda for rust on brake shoes. Overall, 02 Protege is very reliable and that's why I've Mazda6 in my mind.
I see that you had a 96' Accord. That's a pretty decent car, is it an EX or LX? I recently just handed down my 97' Accord LX to my sister, it has 110,000 miles on it. Although now I am driving a better car I still missed my old ride sometimes. I think even though the 94-97 Accord is smaller than the later models, the fit and finish and interior material quality are far superior.
The fifth generation Honda Accord(1994-1997) is my personal favorite. They weren't too big, yet they weren't too small. These cars had excellent inital build quality, and the ergonomics of the interior components made good, basic sense. During my daily commute, I see more of these cars on the road than any other make/model of vehicle; barr none. There's not even a close second in this area. Having a very common car really, really bothers some folks, but what it tells me is that Honda obviously did a whole lot right with the design and manufacturing of this generation of Accords. I'd like to be able to purchase a brand new Accord today just like a 1997 LX/EX either one. As long as it had the options that I desire, I'd just as soon have it as any other new mid-size sedan that is available today. I have a 1998 Accord EX that I use to commute back and forth to work in, but I'd really rather have the previous generation. When I purchased my 1998 Accord, it was pretty tough to find a previous generation one around here. People were hanging on to them for obvious reasons. My '98 Accord has proven to be a really good car thus far. It has only required routine maintenance; including the replacement of wear items such as brake pads, wiper blades, etc. The interior has held up exceptionally well for a vehicle in its price range.
Regarding some recent headliner-related comments in this forum, I will say that my wife's 2001 Civic LX headliner has to be one of the worst that I have ever seen. Cheap mousehair-like fabric over some type of material that feels like a combination of cardboard and styrofoam. It's peeling away at the area near the top edge of the rear window. Other than this issue, her car's interior has also held up really well for having a 130,000 miles on it. Still looks really nice and clean.
I don't think he ever said everybody has to like Hyundai styling. If you don't like Hyundai styling that's fine but you don't have to be sacarstic. When you make a comment regarding design you should say "IMHO".
If you don't care about the looks of a car when buying it, you're in the very small minority. I'd venture to say looks is one of the top reasons people buy any car.
Did I say I don't care about looks?
My car doesn't have to be drop-dead gorgeous, but it must not be ugly or offensive either. If a car is perfect in every way except it was butt-ugly, I probably wouldn't buy it... unless it was dirt cheap. Maybe not even then. I am simply saying that I do not let a car inside my head. I've driven some very cool and expensive cars, but never felt any different while driving them. Same with ugly cars. I feel no different driving them. I just wouldn't like to walk out in my garage and see an ugly vehicle. There are too many handsome ones available to ever do that.
"If you don't care about the looks of a car when buying it, you're in the very small minority. I'd venture to say looks is one of the top reasons people buy any car."
Cars that the general populace considers ugly (as opposed to retro) generally have undesirable form and function anyway. There are very few really ugly cars out there although the Aztec comes to mind. But for the most part, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder holds with car styling. The only thing two people every agree on when discussing car styling is to agree to disagree.
When you make a comment regarding design you should say "IMHO".
That's a given. 95% of these posts are opinions, even when some car rag says car A 'beats' car B. I think there's a very fine line separating most cars anyway, which is why I think styling plays a big part of one's buying decision. And I just don't think Hyundais are good looking vehicles.
On that note, I can't wait to see the 08 Accord. I'm sure it'll be a lot more pleasing to the eye than the current, tired version.
I think there's a very fine line separating most cars anyway, which is why I think styling plays a big part of one's buying decision.
I think the line is much thicker, when comparing certain cars. Styling plays a very small part in my buying decision now. Once I decided on a certain car over another, because I thought it looked much better. The car didn't seem to look as good standing on the side of the road stranded though. Buy a car based on looks, if you plan on doing more looking, than driving.
I wouldn't get my hopes up, that the 08 Accord will be very stylish. Honda seems to save most of it's stylish designs for the Acura line. I think the current Accord looks appealing, in darker colors. The subtle lines show more on dark colors. This is all "my own opinion", as we say.
"I wouldn't get my hopes up, that the 08 Accord will be very stylish. Honda seems to save most of it's stylish designs for the Acura line."
It's always good to hope. The new Civic is a vast improvement over the last one in the styling department (IMO of course), so why not have some hope for the new Accord.
It's not that the Acura line had some lookers before the new TL came out. It seems like Honda is going in a new, less conservative direction lately. We won't talk about the Ridgeline though.
I thought I remembered you too, but I couldn't quite remember from where. Now I know. Weren't we discussing whether there really was a $6k difference in price?
Yea, It's a no brainer to get a $16K Accord over a Civic. With the Accord approaching lame duck status and the Civic still a fresh design, you'll see some strange transaction prices between these cars.
"...just mentioning why "german" engineering doesn't impress me with "Quality..."
Well, when you're talking about German quality you're obviously not talking about quality in terms of reliability.
But in addition to the driving experience, the built quality is excellent. And as you probably know from the Audis you driven, the interior design, fit/finish and attention to detail are awesome.
"I'm torn between the GLI and Passat 2.0T right now since they cost about the same, equally equipped. The biggest difference for me the the lack of DSG on the Passat. Even though the GLI is slightly smaller, I can't see shelling out 30k for a VW without DSG."
Then look into a Jetta 2.0t w/DSG. Take it easy on the options any you'll be well under $30k. I think the Jetta 2.0t has a broader appeal then a GLI anyway.
"I think even though the 94-97 Accord is smaller than the later models, the fit and finish and interior material quality are far superior."
Having owned Accords from that generation (actually 2 of them) and the current generation I would have to say just the opposite is true. Perhaps pleasant memories are overtaking any kind of rational thought. The fit and finish and material quality of the current Accord is well beyond ANY Honda/Acura product of that era.
ACV may be $13,000, but typical trade-in value normally quoted by a dealer, and certainly the private sale value, are higher. When I sold cars, the only time you quoted ACV was on a vehicle with over 100K.
I would recommend that the owner of the G6 either sell his vehicle himself or visit another dealer - he's being taken to the cleaners!
I beg to differ. ACV = actual cash value, i.e what the car is worth. Of course there are several pricing guides to a used car's worth. GALVS usually has the lowest value (to favor a dealer taking a car in trade.) Dealers usually use GALVS and willingly show the "book value" when trying to low ball your trade-in value.
That's a good point. Our Malibu's short to mid term reliability was great but that doesn't mean it was going to be reliable in the long run. Good thing we didn't have the chance to find out. Unfortunately, in all the long term tests (Edmunds.com or any other journal) they only keep the cars for one year, which is not that meaningful.
Comments
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0c6927/1568
It's more than the alleged snaprings problem. Avalon, Lexus, Camry have reports of problems with shift hesitation, flares, and so on.
>all but one of them had rotor issues
Strange. You must be hard on brakes. I've had nothing but maintenance on my LeSabres, Centurys before them...
>One mechanic told me they might as well just schedule the first appointment for a rotor resurface when you buy the car. I've had 5 GM cars since 1997, all but one of them had rotor issues. (And
First hint you may have a mechanic who likes to charge for brake work. For a long time replacement has been the brake maintenance step especially if you have rotors that have runout. Resurfacing doesn't cure it. You mechanic may just be behind the times a decade of fifteen years. Good luck. EOD
.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Good question.
I felt the same way when I was 19 as I do now (I'm 30), looks are VERY important in my car, even if I'm looking at a mid-size "family sedan".
That's one of the (many) reasons why I picked my Mazda6 over everything else, along with great handling, brakes, steering, and sporty character of the car. Interior space may be lacking compared to everyone else, but I don't live in the back seat, and I have passengers in the back quite often (notably co-workers, clients, and friends) and NOBODY has complained about any lack of room, even behind my seat, which is as far back as possible.
Reliability? Face it, buying ANY car is a risk, even a Honda or Toyota. Having said that, after 2 years and 36K miles, I've only had a faulty gas cap (replaced under warranty). It hasn't left me stranded or late for anything.
Resale? Please... A car is a terrible investment, no matter how you look at it. Buying a Toyota or Honda isn't worth the price premium to get a few extra $$$ back at trade-in.
AFAIC, there are excellent choices, both foreign and (gasp!) domestic, that fit the needs of all mid-size sedan buyers. That's the best part.
I agree 100% with thegraduate. Good job, I applaude your rational thinking. As a postscript, looks are important, but I wouldn't not buy a car because I didn't like the looks. (Aztec excepted)
High quality headliner...see VW, for example.
I'm not sure what you are doing in your car that you get the headliner dirty in the first place, but whatever...
-Fusion out; 4-cyl doesn't match economy of the other models (24/34 vs something like 24/31...I drive hwy a lot)
On the power side, I'd not give too much weight to peak HP numbers. I would drive to see if the power is adequate for me and also look at acceleration numbers.
On gas mileage, assuming EPA numbers are accurate, even if real gas mileage is 3 mpg difference...this amounts to about $80 per 10,000 miles. Not enough to be a factor for myself.
I think almost all cars are reasonably safe and reasonably reliable. Because of this other factors, such as looks) become more significant in choosing a car, just because the differences are greater, IMO.
If all cars are reasonably safe and reliable, but only a few cars look good to me...then the looks are going to be the thing that matters.
Wanting to buy a car that looks nice (in addition to meeting other criteria) is not about my image, it just about wanting to like the appearance of something I am going to spend $20,000 on and see every day for the next 10 years+.
I agree 100% with thegraduate. Good job, I applaude your rational thinking. As a postscript, looks are important, but I wouldn't not buy a car because I didn't like the looks. (Aztec excepted)
Haha, thanks... I'm a pretty rational person (I save as much as I spend here lately; gotta have $ to move out of the house!), so economy was important for the finance aspect of it. I currently have the car I got when I was 15 (grandmother's old 1996 - now has 165,000mi)...so I hope to keep my new car as long. The longer I keep a car, the more time I have to be saving for the next one (meaning less financed!).
I'm 6'4", so I wanted the room of a midsize. I like to drive, so when double-dating and road-tripping, we take my car, meaning I wanted 4-doors.
Do I think the coupes look a lot better than the 4-door models? Heck yes; but it wasn't worth giving up the utility of a 4-door to me.
The only thing I'd change about my car now that i have it? Make Stability Control available on 4-cyl Accords!
(You mention the Aztec; I don't think I'd take an Element either, although it is pretty practical!)
Driving any one of these sedans isn't going to make much of a "statement" so style didn't matter that much.
If I was shopping for a convertible it would be an entirely different story though!
I do remember that I discovred our then new 02 malibu (your Alero is essentially the same car) had unevenly worn rotor on one side. It didn't shake or anything when braking but I could feel the grooves on the rotor with my fingers. Had them surfaced but could still feel the grooves. Fortunately the brakes never gave us any trouble the entire time we owned it althought they had been fairly weak from day one in the sense that it required some force to apply them.
Other than that it was overall a very reliable and comfortable car in the 3+ years and 30K+ miles.
I see that you had a 96' Accord. That's a pretty decent car, is it an EX or LX? I recently just handed down my 97' Accord LX to my sister, it has 110,000 miles on it. Although now I am driving a better car I still missed my old ride sometimes. I think even though the 94-97 Accord is smaller than the later models, the fit and finish and interior material quality are far superior.
If you had a problem rotor you would feel it when braking. The concentric grooves are from normal brake wear. If you had them resurfaced and the grooves were still there they didn't do the job right. I'm glad you say the brakes never gave you any trouble: "the brakes never gave us any trouble the "
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The build quality is excellent, even inside after years of use, although I wouldn't call it abused.
You can check it out at my carspace page http://www.carspace.com/thegraduate
">link title
Bye the way, 02 Protege has been very nice. It has now 38000 miles on it. Still on original tires and battery. It needed 3 repairs in 4 and 1/2 years: one engine emission valve repair, one power door lock (actuator) repair, front brake repair (just the shoes, not rotor). Almost nothing compared to the terrible 99 Blazer that I traded in for a CR-V. I will feel very guilty trading this Protege in next year for an Accord/ Altima/ Mazda6 :P
I don't blame you for fixing it on your Protege...
I've had a few other repairs on my 96 Accord in 10.5 years, including:
1.)Speedometer failure 111,500 miles- Honda didn't charge labor b/c its such a freaky thing (I don't know the cost, my grandmother had the car at the time)
2.)Brake Master Cylinder leak 155,000 miles- $310
3.)Main Cooling (radiator) fan motor ~130,000 miles- $300
4.)Pass. Rear Pwr Door Lock Actuator- ~$200 (Chose not to repair)
All of this plus regular maintenance, and a few bulbs replaced here and there. Not perfect, but I'd say its well below the average cost of repairs on a ten year old car with such high mileage.
I am not disagreeing with you but just for the record, I never said Jetta is a midsize...
As for the Azera, photos (like below) do not do justice. I just saw one today, and it looked great!!
-Cj
But anywy, I think the short term reliability is ok on these things, its the mid-to long term I question. Our other car is an '04 Malibu Maxx...so far, I wouldn't say anything MAJOR has happened except for the brakes. It has had three sets of rotors and on top of that they have been resurfaced 4 times in 21k. I didn't pay a dime for any of that at least and this last replacement seems to have worked a little better. Basically I was told by the Chevrolet Service Advisor that we drive in an extreme environment in terms of traffic (metro DC) and that they brakes simply weren't decided to handle that and get too hot day in and day out. My wife and I moved a few months ago and now carpool in the Camry and so the Maxx no longer has the commute, and presto, the brakes seem ok. (Of course its driven a lot less). The interior quality is getting shoddy (pieces are just breaking here and there) but mechnically it seems fine.
My '01 Alero brakes were a mess. A couple of months after I got it, the rear window came loose. It went into a dealer for almost two weeks for a replacement, and fitting and all of that. They had a hard time because the sealants were messed up. It was never the same after that and prompted me to trade it for the Intrigue--the deal was really favorable.
I finally broke the GM cycle...
Your rambling rant said nothing about Hyundai's weakness in the style (or lack of) department.
But maybe the Azera's unibrow tailights appeal to you.
The fifth generation Honda Accord(1994-1997) is my personal favorite. They weren't too big, yet they weren't too small. These cars had excellent inital build quality, and the ergonomics of the interior components made good, basic sense. During my daily commute, I see more of these cars on the road than any other make/model of vehicle; barr none. There's not even a close second in this area. Having a very common car really, really bothers some folks, but what it tells me is that Honda obviously did a whole lot right with the design and manufacturing of this generation of Accords. I'd like to be able to purchase a brand new Accord today just like a 1997 LX/EX either one. As long as it had the options that I desire, I'd just as soon have it as any other new mid-size sedan that is available today. I have a 1998 Accord EX that I use to commute back and forth to work in, but I'd really rather have the previous generation. When I purchased my 1998 Accord, it was pretty tough to find a previous generation one around here. People were hanging on to them for obvious reasons. My '98 Accord has proven to be a really good car thus far. It has only required routine maintenance; including the replacement of wear items such as brake pads, wiper blades, etc. The interior has held up exceptionally well for a vehicle in its price range.
Regarding some recent headliner-related comments in this forum, I will say that my wife's 2001 Civic LX headliner has to be one of the worst that I have ever seen. Cheap mousehair-like fabric over some type of material that feels like a combination of cardboard and styrofoam.
It's peeling away at the area near the top edge of the rear window. Other than this issue, her car's interior has also held up really well for having a 130,000 miles on it. Still looks really nice and clean.
Ron M.
Did I say I don't care about looks?
My car doesn't have to be drop-dead gorgeous, but it must not be ugly or offensive either. If a car is perfect in every way except it was butt-ugly, I probably wouldn't buy it... unless it was dirt cheap. Maybe not even then. I am simply saying that I do not let a car inside my head. I've driven some very cool and expensive cars, but never felt any different while driving them. Same with ugly cars. I feel no different driving them. I just wouldn't like to walk out in my garage and see an ugly vehicle. There are too many handsome ones available to ever do that.
Cars that the general populace considers ugly (as opposed to retro) generally have undesirable form and function anyway. There are very few really ugly cars out there although the Aztec comes to mind. But for the most part, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder holds with car styling. The only thing two people every agree on when discussing car styling is to agree to disagree.
Very well said!!
That's a given. 95% of these posts are opinions, even when some car rag says car A 'beats' car B. I think there's a very fine line separating most cars anyway, which is why I think styling plays a big part of one's buying decision. And I just don't think Hyundais are good looking vehicles.
On that note, I can't wait to see the 08 Accord. I'm sure it'll be a lot more pleasing to the eye than the current, tired version.
I think the line is much thicker, when comparing certain cars. Styling plays a very small part in my buying decision now. Once I decided on a certain car over another, because I thought it looked much better. The car didn't seem to look as good standing on the side of the road stranded though. Buy a car based on looks, if you plan on doing more looking, than driving.
I wouldn't get my hopes up, that the 08 Accord will be very stylish. Honda seems to save most of it's stylish designs for the Acura line. I think the current Accord looks appealing, in darker colors. The subtle lines show more on dark colors. This is all "my own opinion", as we say.
It's always good to hope. The new Civic is a vast improvement over the last one in the styling department (IMO of course), so why not have some hope for the new Accord.
It's not that the Acura line had some lookers before the new TL came out. It seems like Honda is going in a new, less conservative direction lately. We won't talk about the Ridgeline though.
Yea, It's a no brainer to get a $16K Accord over a Civic. With the Accord approaching lame duck status and the Civic still a fresh design, you'll see some strange transaction prices between these cars.
Well, when you're talking about German quality you're obviously not talking about quality in terms of reliability.
But in addition to the driving experience, the built quality is excellent. And as you probably know from the Audis you driven, the interior design, fit/finish and attention to detail are awesome.
Then look into a Jetta 2.0t w/DSG. Take it easy on the options any you'll be well under $30k. I think the Jetta 2.0t has a broader appeal then a GLI anyway.
Having owned Accords from that generation (actually 2 of them) and the current generation I would have to say just the opposite is true. Perhaps pleasant memories are overtaking any kind of rational thought. The fit and finish and material quality of the current Accord is well beyond ANY Honda/Acura product of that era.
Original loan : $27,000
Payoff : $24,000
ACV : $13,000
2006 G6 V6, w/8700 mi, S/R, 6 Disc, prolly $1000 or so of rebatables in the P/O Amt.
Current TMV on a new 2006 model is just under $24000 plus Taxes, etc so $26-27K sounds right including GAP and Road Hazard Protection.
'Clean' condition is $13000 - $14000 on trade in, average is about $13000.
Love your G6, you'll have it for a while.
I would recommend that the owner of the G6 either sell his vehicle himself or visit another dealer - he's being taken to the cleaners!