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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Maybe I need to lead some sort of charge to the Fusion, very little chance that car will change very much in the forseeable future and it is the most 'challenged' vehicle in this group?
The pictures of it are HOT. But it is slghtly smaller than the Fusion and the Milan which is most likely would replace. Also in looking at the Ford Europe UK site and the engine specs the largest engine is a 226 hp 3.0L gasser plus 3 variations of the diesel Ford offers.
Milan ===> Mondeo ? I actually think they should keep the name Milan. 'Mondeo' just doesn't grab my attention or connect anywhere. Ive been to Milan and I liked it.
Ford is not a "marginal" car company. The media has been beating this into your head for so long you now believe it. Go to MSN.com and look at the reliability ratings of Ford vehicles and trucks, you will be surprised I'm sure it will make you think. Fusion/Milan are great vehicles with high value/quality/fit/finish.
I couldn't disagree more with your post. If the Fusion/Milan are the best of Ford, they are smack in the middle of the pack at least IMO. I would buy a Camry before a Fusion and I don't like Camrys. If you want to tow the line for Ford go right ahead, but Honda and Toyota have shown Ford what they need to do.
There is an old saying perception is reality.
But I'd give the Accord an A, even with its 5 year old design. When the 08 Accord hits the Fusion will be less attractive. So yea, Ford does an OK car in the Fusion, but OK doesn't cut it when the competition is so much better.
I kicked Ford to the curb years ago when their cars I owned were disappointments, not because the 'media' told me to.
http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4021986
:P
So I've been looking around and last night I ended up at the local Mercedes dealer. Attrocious prices for their used stuff, but I can tell you that there's nothing Ford makes that's as nice as even a basic 5 year old E-Class.
GM and Ford are hard-pressed to even match a C-class with 90% of their offerings. For $20K used, a 4 year old C320 just pummels most anything Ford or GM make that's new.
You just have to get beyond the interior bling and trickery. Look under the hood, check the tolerances, and drive it agressively/give it a good work-out in traffic. Body flex and how it handles quick throttle and input - whether it's tight or mushy and vague are the two easiest to tell.
Of course, the imports aren't immune, either. Far too much plastic as well. Though they have good mechanicals and fit/finish as a rule - 2 out of 3 isn't bad. (the luxury lines are 3 out of 3, though, as expected). And the E-Class isn't really special, either - just average. The big 3 have some serious problems if they can't match the "average" offerings of the imports.
Wow - you think so? Pummels?
For the next 4 years, get ready for the Mercedes to pummel you with maintenance costs. So you add that cluster funk to the equation and instead buy a loaded Aura XR with a 100,000 mile warranty, multiple safety features, better performance, better eye candy, better fuel economy, nicer electronics and so on.
C'mon Plek
But what a beautiful interior with the Moroccan Brown leather. 18" wheels standard. 252hp V6 with 21/30 mpgs. Way to go GM. If it holds up like an Accord they've got a winner there.
I did happen to think that the Aura was the best vehicle GM has put out into the mainstream market in who-knows-how-long.
I'll give it a solid B until I get more time in one.
600 or so posts later you're still on this media brain washing nonsense. Like it or not you drive a Japanese designed, Mexican built car so please give me a break from your buy American tirade.
600 or so posts later you're still on this media brain washing nonsense. Like it or not you drive a Japanese designed, Mexican built car so please give me a break from your buy American tirade.
Post Number 3,862
I think he's trying to brainwash us about being brainwashed. 6,000 posts later, and nothing has changed. Whos beating stuff into our heads NOW? If the words "media bias" were two-by-fours, we'd all have concussions.
For a Mexican car, it has, at least temporarily proven to be assembled well.
It'll be another few years two before I buy another car in this class and there is less chance of me sending my money to Mexico, then there is of a snowstorm hitting Ford's plant down there. Buying a Fusion HURTS this country, allowing Fotd to buy out more employees, close more plants, and inject some more money down south (or up north).
Ford really needs to get out of the car business pretty much altogether, produce the things they know how to do like trucks, SUVs and maybe the Mustang - that would be the 'intelligent' way to stop the 'bleeding', instead of trying to convince folks that they still make cars. A really sad, sad, situation for all us 'brainwashed' sheep (less viable choices) and those poor employess being paid not to work (listless 40 year olds living on some sort of fixed income does not do us any good at all!)
I don't understand why Ford didn't do what the 'Japanese' did, establish non-union plants in the American South, unless, of course, the UAW wouldn't allow it?
The Fusion is a solid car but it's obscene to say one should get one because it's the "American" thing to do. Truth be told, the Mexicans probably do a better job of assembling a car than the UAW.
for me, the 3.0 in a fusion is more than enough power.
the 2.3 I4 duratec in my focus is very smooth, quiet and powerful. it is a more recent design than the 3.0 v6.
i'm pretty sure our reps and senators voted FOR nafta. I vote and encourage everyone to do the same, even if we don't agree on the selections.
You answered your own question. The UAW became more powerful that the "Big 3" and eventually drove the big business "Big 3" into a noncompetitive situation. Remember the old wisdom to not buy a car built on Monday or Friday? That was because the car manufacturers could not enforce discipline on their employees.
IIRC, some UAW contract called for full pay even when the employees were on strike. (Maybe I'm wrong.) Wasn't there a time back in the 1980's when UAW went on strike in the winter and many of the Michigan based employees escaped the cold by driving to Florida while receiving full pay and benefits?
For the next 4 years, get ready for the Mercedes to pummel you with maintenance costs. So you add that cluster funk to the equation and instead buy a loaded Aura XR with a 100,000 mile warranty, multiple safety features, better performance, better eye candy, better fuel economy, nicer electronics and so on.
Note that I did say that the luxury imports(Japan) are 3/3 as well - top notch examples used that also pummel the domestics. As for preference, it's a matter of choice and such.
My point was that even a fairly non-special/average C class whomps on the domestics. Then you get into a high-end Accura or Infinity or simmilar and it's not even a fair fight. Like comparing a mule to a thoroughbred. Yes, they both have some horse in them, but it's almost impossible to compare them side-by-side anymore.
My point was that even a fairly non-special/average C class whomps on the domestics. Then you get into a high-end Accura or Infinity or simmilar and it's not even a fair fight. Like comparing a mule to a thoroughbred. Yes, they both have some horse in them, but it's almost impossible to compare them side-by-side anymore.
Huh? Totally incomprehensible.
No fire, no soul - just not capable of running with the real horses as it were.
If big 3 cannot enforce discipline why I have to care as a customer? I will not buy their product and that’s all about it. Let Mexico develop middle class – they deserve it more than Michigan. Only fittest survive. America is not Europe – if you cannot compete you die and another business takes your place and nobody feels sorry for you – you are a loser, you deserved it. If you don’t like it – go to Europe, yeah move your headquaters to Europe – the government will take care of you. CEOs get such a huge compensation and they cannot figure out how to establish the discipline in the company? New companies do not have this kind of problems and if old ones cannot do it then let’em go.
I would say they're people who like Fords.
I guess a certain percentage of that group would be anti-foreign and pro UAW. I would say for that subset group the Fusion would be a dilemma since this car is based upon the Mazda 6, has a Japanese built transmission and is assembled in Mexico.
You can't say with a straight face to someone to buy a Fusion over an Accord or Camry because it's an American car. A car such as an Impala would be a better choice for those who want USA designed, USA made, and USA high content.
I personally like Honda and Audi/Volkswagen vehicles. I guess in some people's eyes that makes me a bad American.
Interesting choice since these 2 companies will lead the way (in this segment) in the next couple of years with the introduction of clean, new generation diesel vehicles that have excellent torque, good mileage, much quieter than older gen. diesels, for about the same $ as their gas counterparts.
Diesels will allow the US to get away from its insane dependence on the Arabs in the Middle East for the bulk of our energy needs, moreso than hybrids. 50% of the new vehicles sold in Europe are diesels. They've already moved in that direction for many years.
The US needs to too. Honda knows that. The 08 Accord will surely adopt diesel. And everybody else will scramble to do the same.
Yup. The shape of things to come. Diesel has so many advantages over hybrid technology, especially this new generation of diesels.
Anything to wean us off Arab oil is a big plus. Honda and VW will be so far ahead of everybody in diesel cars. I'll seriously consider a diesel Accord in 09.
Why doesn't Ford go down this road? What an opportuntiy.
Question for the audience..
How far out of the way would you go to fill up on biodiesel?
How much would you be willing to pay/Gal to use biodiesel?
Anything to wean us off Arab oil is a big plus. Honda and VW will be so far ahead of everybody in diesel cars. I'll seriously consider a diesel Accord in 09.
While Honda has great engines and bleeding edge technology it hasn't translated yet into being a significant presence in the world's diesel market place. It's only in the US that Honda is considered to ba a 'premium' mid-maket brand. In Europe both they and Toyota are relatively small players but Toyota's diesel technology there is far more advanced than Honda's in terms of market acceptance. GM/F/VW/Renault all are much bigger players than either T/H. In Asia it's T/N/F who dominate the diesel truck market. [ Aside: The new Ford Ranger (diesel) has been out now for over a year in Thailand. Ford has not updated the old Ranger here. The Ranger plant here being considered for closure in these new round of cuts which would allow the new more modern diesel's to come in from Thailand prolly in 2008. ]
In 2008-09 we should see a flood of more efficient offerings here. The first will be from Honda !! in the Ody, MDX, Ridgeline and possibly the Accord/Pilot.
Now here is a question I've asked several relatives, mostly women, who are not very aware of new automotive trends. Try it.
Without any preface..
"Would you trade your Odyssey for a diesel Odyssey?"
Huh?
You mean like a schoolbus?
Never.
How far out of the way would you go to fill up on biodiesel?
How much would you be willing to pay/Gal to use biodiesel?
The real question on biodiesel is if the diesel engine you are buying is compatible with biodiesel. Many are not because biodiesel eats the seals, and will void the warranty. If the car can actually run biodiesel or regular diesel, that would be a plus also.
US content percentages on the window stickers of all Ford/GM/DMC products as well as Toyota/Honda/Nissan.
The only part that can be misleading about the content percentages is, they count Canada as US content. :confuse:
And as an Alabama resident, I can tell you our economy couldn't be happier to have Mercedes, Honda, and Hyundai! Our state's economy is really booming relative to how it was a decade or two ago. The extra employment is great too.
Be prepared to be disappointed with the new Honda diesel engine then. The big news isn't that Honda is coming out with a diesel in our market but with a clean burning diesel. One that will meet the emission standards in all 50 states. One that will use clean diesel fuel.
Agreed. My knock on diesels has been with emissions but it looks like some manufacturers have cleared that hurdle.
One manufacturer (Honda) will be putting their exhaust scrubbing technology in Accords very soon. I think VW does it different (urea additives), but diesel is still proven technology that will outdo hybrids in the Mid Size sedan sector very soon. Toyota seems to favor hybrids in the US.
Maybe you could elaborate if you disagree!
You're not going to be able burn it in the upcoming Honda diesel engine. And it stinks!
Besides biodiesel does not have to be b100.