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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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It's not a big deal, but none of these cars have major obvious flaws, so its only the little things that we have to discern between them.
I for one have sat in a running car when waiting to pick up my grandmother outside of the eye-surgeon with my mom. Trust me, sitting there, you want to be able to crank the A/C up or down.
The poor sole who didn't get "Auto climate control". If the button on the bottom passenger side is never going to be needed, Why is it there?
If you do not have auto climate control (I'm sure all Fusions do not), don't you want to adjust the A/C before you drive off (while the car is in Park)? Seems like the best time for adjustments to me.
Otherwise, the Fusion would be my pick of the current crop of domestic entries (including Saturn Aura and new Chrysler Sebring. And FWIW, the Sebring has the most awkward/bizarre rear head restraints I've ever seen or been subjected to).
~alpha
my main point being on this board many times i see posters who are so incrediously defending a particular make/model over others as if they had designed the car from scratch themselves through 10 years of hard work in their basement. it gets to the point people start making statements that would be considered lunacy at best just in attempt to believe their own BS, or to make themselves feel justified about what they paid.
the car does not feel that same way about you, and the auto maker most certiantly does not feel that way about, in fact they will take the first opportunity to fleece you when presented w/ it. i find it amusing.
Who is making such statements around here?
any differences between them are generally aesthetic opinions more often than not....let's face it, at some point you are just paying for a name.
Sounds to me like the pot calling the kettle black here, justifying your purchase because it was cheaper than the alternatives. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's practice what we preach.
I beg to differ that people buy a car strictly on a name. Who would be so stupid? Do I think brand loyalty exists? Heck yes. Do I think there are many people who buy a Fusion just because it is a Ford or buy a Camry just because it is a Toyota? No. Introduce a sub-par vehicle, and it won't sell, whether it says "KIA" on the front, or has a three-point star on the hood.
I buy jeans that fit me, not ones that have the "Diesel" brand name on them. I can tell no differences in $200 jeans and $20 jeans most of the time, so I get the $20 ones. I can tell decision-changing differences in the vehicles in this comparison. If you cannot, you should buy the least expensive one possible, because things like a modern-looking gauge cluster, smoother/refined engine, and fuel economy won't be obvious pluses to you, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people are more nit-picky and anal retentitive about their vehicles (I tend to be one of them) and wouldn't be happy in a car like a Sonata or Fusion (I simply dislike their interior designs). I like the new Elantra's though, a HECK of a lot better than the Sonata's interior
2k-4k more for essentially the same car. any differences between them are generally aesthetic opinions more often than not....
Last I checked, Sonatas are a lot cheaper than Fusions. Shouldn't you be getting one soon? I mean, they are essentially the same car and all
Sounds to me like the pot calling the kettle black here, justifying your purchase because it was cheaper than the alternatives. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's practice what we preach.
I beg to differ that people buy a car strictly on a name. Who would be so stupid? Do I think brand loyalty exists? Heck yes. Do I think there are many people who buy a Fusion just because it is a Ford or buy a Camry just because it is a Toyota? No. Introduce a sub-par vehicle, and it won't sell, whether it says "KIA" on the front, or has a three-point star on the hood.
I buy jeans that fit me, not ones that have the "Diesel" brand name on them. I can tell no differences in $200 jeans and $20 jeans most of the time, so I get the $20 ones. I can tell decision-changing differences in the vehicles in this comparison. If you cannot, you should buy the least expensive one possible, because things like a modern-looking gauge cluster, smoother/refined engine, and fuel economy won't be obvious pluses to you, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people are more nit-picky and anal retentitive about their vehicles (I tend to be one of them) and wouldn't be happy in a car like a Sonata or Fusion (I simply dislike their interior designs). I like the new Elantra's though, a HECK of a lot better than the Sonata's interior
the problem here is, i never stated what car i own.....and i intentially said in my original post i by no means intended to defend ford or any other brand. i infact DO NOT own a fusion, although i have owned several ford vehicles in the past. despite their problems, i would say they served me well. but i had enough problems i would most likely never buy one again. by contrast my entire family buys fords.
i bought my car because i liked that one the best, it also so happened to be lower on the price scale that some comparison models. it would be an interesting experiment to be able to have people choose between similar cars without knowing what the price was. i know it's not practical but..
while i applaud you for having a brain of your own to think with, and do not buy a particular car because of it's make, or a pair of jeans because they say 'diesel' on them. i think it would be naive to think that there are not thousands of people who do the exact opposite....
i know that, just as myself, you may find that hard to fathom, the fact of the matter is that brands like diesel are around and soembody is paying for all of there marketing, and all of their factory works making their products. i know of plenty people who will not buy jeans UNLESS they say lucky or diesel on them. there are still plenty of people who will not consider of hyundai of any model simply based off what they heard 5 years ago. and if i had a nickel for everytime someone said buy a toyota because they make the most reliable cars, w/ no mention whatsoever of a model.....well i wouldn't be sitting at work right now
in the end i did not buy the camry because of all of the transmission issues on the early production models, and my general rule of thumb to stay away from a first year re-design. and i thought the size of the logo on the front of the car was downright hideous..it looks like it got stung by a bee. not to mention no local dealerships had one w/ the specs i wanted coming in in the foreseeable future, infact they had no idea when they would.
i did not buy the accord or civic because i thought they were ugly enough i knew i would not be happy in them as you would not be in a sonata or fusion. coming from larger full-size sedans of years past, i also wanted something w/ more room in the trunk and back seats that are actually useful for people taller than 5'5". plus everyone and their mom and grandmother already own one, and i wanted something different. i find joy in finding the diamonds in the rough so to speak.
and the mazda i did not buy because it was entirely overpriced, lacked room in the rear seats etc., and is associated with ford. although i will say it looks sharp.
in the end i ended up getting a sonata limited, that i have been extremely pleased with. 5 years ago, i would have, and did, laugh at anyone who considered buying a hyundai of any kind..but i did some thorough research and found they have changed their ways drastically in th past 5 years and took a shot. i have not at any time thought or said , 'well if i had more money i would've gotten that car instead because i really like it more' the only car i would say that about is possible those new lexus ls460's
If the Fusion (or any car) is the car you want, I have absolutely no problem with that. But when you say anyone who bought an Accord or Camry "wasted their money" I have a problem with it. There are many things that IMO make the Accord worth more than a Fusion. All the little things add up (engine power and smoothness, interior ergonomics, fuel economy, crash test ratings, and IMO overall quality make the Accord worth more). If you do not agree, you are free to buy any car you like. But when you say I "wasted my money". I take that personally.
i agree with you entirely, as i am not the poster who said you wasted your money. anyone who bought a vehicle they are happy with did not waste their money, unless they didn't research and get the best price THEY could ofcourse. all of this is subjective to ones opinion, and we could go own for years and years. if you are happy w/ what you bought, mission accomplished...but don't go blasting another guy for what they bought if it makes THEM happy.
it was just my opinion that they fact of a gear shifter blocking the HVAC controls was not on par w/ fuel economy or a refined engine examples you just used...
In 2002 I needed a car and didn't search the internet for answers. I just went and bought an Accord cause I knew its reputation. I kept it almost 4 years and could not have made a better buying decision.
Nowadays I think 90% of car buyers today still don't research a car on the internet first, so buying a CamCord may be a knee-jerk decision vs. checking out a FusionataTima, but the CamCord still is an excellent choice (even if someone researched them first).
Fusion or Sonata hasn't earned that default choice. Most don't think they're as great as the CamCords. Damn good - yea. The gap has narrowed some. But most people would rather just pay what the CamCord costs and then never have to worry about their decision until the next car buying time arises. And that's worth the 'premium' you pay for one over the FusionataTima.
I doubt most people even feel they're paying a premium when they get the car they are VERY comfortable with.
i like fords and would consider buying a fusion.
since the front brakes do most of the braking, they are the most important. most brands only offer their best braking systems on the highest line models, only. the most sold 4cyl versions still usually have rear drum brakes.
everyone is freaking out about the buttons low on the dash of the fusion. does anyone know what they are for? :confuse:
Yup. They're there so you can scrape your knuckles on the shifter as you're trying to push them.
The only flaw is there may be taxes due on the interest earned...unless, say, you are funding a Roth IRA that you would not otherwise fund. While most people do find a way to spend whatever they earn, this is not true of everyone. In particular, it is not likely true of someone who had the discipline to save enough to pay cash for the car.
Anyway, if you do not like that financial analysis, the alternative would be to assume the money is borrowed...which means you are paying maybe 8% interest on the extra $5000 borrowed. This would mean paying $2000 in extra interest over 5 years.
Of course it is. That's why both sell in such volumes. You keep bringing this back to your personal value scale. It is only not worth it to you and to those who choose other vehicles. It is worth it to those actually buying the CamCords.
Why do you keep trying to impose your values on others? That's really screaming at the wind to stop.
It is not about image. As everyone knows both vehicles are bland and boring looking and they are in fact middle market appliances. Who wakes up in the morning and says let's reinforce our image as vanilla ice cream and go out and buy a CamCord appliance.
It's not image.. it's past experience. For most people driving is between visiting the relatives on the Holidays and root canal. In addition to this painful experience the method of imposing this ennui is a depreciating asset that few people really like to acquire. And they certainly don't want to have to spend time and money fixing it. 'As long then as the appliance turns on every day for 10 years and never ever puts me out I'll stick with it.'
Once in a while something exciting comes along. But do I want to give up my security blanket?
Depreciation is actually the price paid minus the price (value) at the time of disposal.
BTW, is it just my fear that the "panoramic" roof will turn into a nightmare in a few years? Between the chance of vandalism, leaks, and with colder climates (freeze/thaw, snow/ice load)... That's a risk I wouldn't take.
You're kidding, right?
There are a lot of people that buy Toyota strictly on name, period. Of course, they've heard about Toyota quality for years, but it gets so bad that they won't consider anything else when buying a vehicle, whether or not they've had a Toyota previously. That's just sad.
Look at the Corolla, a dated design that's been long since passed by superior products, such as the Mazda3 and Civic. Yet it sells well. Why? Well, a person I know that has one is on her second, and REFUSED to look at anything else when buying it.
This is preciesely what I was saying about the CamCord in the prior post. The Corolla is a 5 y.o. design but it of all the vehicles in the line is the one that is nearly perfect in terms of reliability. Literally I've never had anyone register a 'comeback' complaint in the 5 yrs it's been out. Your friend's comment is indicative of the fact that for many many buyers the reliability factor trumps everything else, price, design, performance.
This isn't the case for everyone certainly but it is the case for a huge segment of the population.
A car is just an appliance to them, and if you tell them it costs less (in whatever scheme anyone wants to use to make the case), they will go for it.
I think this is why GM has been doing more adjustments to get MSRP and transaction price closer together, too. People comparison shop by MSRP and invoice and are shocked by the discrepancy brands don't take into account the transaction price.
All Camrys, Sonatas, Altimas, 6s, Legacys, etc. are discs at all corners.
~alpha
1) scape is allowed to have any perception he likes
2) the only perception the rest of us can have is that there is a vast media conspiracy against the big 2.5
I asked scape long ago what the motivation of the media is regarding this alleged conspiracy. After all, advertising dollars are green no matter where they come from. He responded to my question with another question and never looked back!
BTW - I've owned a Mazda6 for three trouble-free years.
It also depends on what perceived value someone is getting for their money. Some people may feel that for peace of mind (which may or may not be real), buying a vehicle with a more established reputation is worth it to them.
I have yet to have a car that I felt was a poor value, and I have enjoyed the vehicles I've had. Price, for me, is a big part of that equation (I really couldn't afford the BMW and MBZ you mentioned), but my criteria for value is different than most.
When I'm out buying a car, a few grand difference here or there makes no difference, something like I'll spend $50 more a month for something that is better quality, more comfortable, and more fun to drive and then justify it (to myself) with the generally higher resale values a few years later - to me is all worth it. And although perceived reliability certainly has an impact on those resale values, I don't think there is a whole lot of difference anymore brand-to-brand given that that any of these cars should easily (and cheaply) get past 150k or so properly maintained. It is not 1980 anymore.
$20 grand is a lot of money to spend on anything, and I'm not going to be miserable (rough engines and underpowered cars have a tendency to do that to me) for what amounts to a few dollars every month the bulk of which I'll get back anyway. I guess my point is if something like $50/month bothers me, I shouldn't be buying new $20-30k cars to begin with.
I too won't buy something "painful" but I also won't buy an automatic transmission so I'm that much more of a nitche market.
I won't buy a red car, so I guess I'm in a niche market too.
I think you are right, the psuedo-stick automatics are going to be a big hit with the baby-boomers who want to feel like they are driving something sporty but too lazy to actually drive something sporty (2 baby-boomers in my life have a 330ci/6spd and a G35/6spd so its not always the case).
As cars become even more homogenized, there will be even less to differentiate between them, and that will get back to my point where people are just going to buy the cheapest thing available.
How silly
all i have figured out so far, is the the outboard buttons are for the heated seats.
i wish the fusion has heated seats with cloth like my focus.
Due to a 23% local property tax increase the escrow on my mortgage just increased $130 a month. Due to the interest rate bumps made by the Fed, my home equity payment has gone up over $100 a month since February 2006 (and my rate is 1.25% below prime). Sanitary sewers have recently been brought into my street. My sewer assessment will be in the $20,000 range (which the Town will offer 20 year financing @ about 5%) whether I connect to the sewers or not.
$50 a month "ain't nothin', unless ya don't got it" because of other escalating obligations.
Boy, look who is calling the kettle black here!?? Just like you try to impose your values on others too?? Saying the Accord/Camry are $2,000 - $4,000 better than a Fusion/Sonta/Milan or whichever? Who ever doesn't buy an Accord or Camry is getting a far inferior vehicle.. Anything but an Accord or Camry and your going to break down after 25,000 miles.. If your car isn't an Accord or Camry your reliability is terrible.. I can go on and on with this one...
If you say you bought your Fusion because it's the car you wanted, that's fine with me. But when you say I wasted my money, you are giving your opinion, which means nothing to me. In my opinion, you cheaped out.
I guess you don't worry about the clumsiness of the controls behind the shifter then?
You never cease to amaze me, scape. Geez; trust me, the song and dance of "you wasted your money" is getting old. If I had paid $20k for a car I wasn't happy with, or $22k for a car I am happy with, which would be more wasteful?
Answer me this please.
Camcords are accessable. There are a lot of dealers, the dealers all have a bunch of them on their lots, and they are all the same so you don't have people wanting one with or without the power package. As other vehicles become more accessable and widely known I think the barriers to entry will drop again. This isn't tomorrow, this is a trend. If there is nothing special to diffentiate you in the market, then it becomes based on price.
I think its different if you want a specialized technology. If I was looking for a hybrid I would go to Toyota, but I'm not so I won't :P
Why do people think this? Have they not seen the latest reliabil reports on Fusion?Milan?MKZ? And what i fin dodd, Ive had the resverse problem. My Japanese cars are breaking down alot while all my ameicans just keep on goin. People are just not openminded these days.