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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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I think the camry and avalon have there territory better defined. I sure some buyers will go to buy a camry and walk away with a avalon or vice versa, but im sure most consumers for those vehicles either want one or the other. I just dont see that happenening with the altima & Max. The Max dosent really offer anything over the Altima, except a few inches, and in my opinion less style. The camry and Avalon look nothing alike either inside or out, they have different driving characteristics, and ultimately appeal to 2 different groups of consumers.
The sales to individual Toyota stores for their TRAC programs however are part of the fleet sales and as noted above there is a contract in place for these deliveries.
Wrong.
The Sonata V6 gets 3-5 less mpg than the Accord's. The Accord is one of the few vehicles out there that gets MPGs at or higher than that asserted on the sticker. The TL's another one - gets 32mpg highway.
Truth be told, the new Altima for 07 will be more powerful than the current Maxima, but no one complained when the Camry used to make more power than the Avalon.
Maxima is a bit redundant and needs to be completely revamped and redone IMO. The car was lackluster since it was redesigned and even though the new interior and other features for 07 are nice, I don't expect the Maxima will gain anymore sales this year.
Since Nissan is making the Altima the family sedan now, I think the Maxima should acutally be the smaller car, while still wearing the flagship name. Make the car about the size of an Acura TL this next time around and focus on styling, handling and sportiness, leave the family jargon to the Altima.
Shure mister... if you insist.
FYI, my wife's Accord gets 30 mpg on the freeway, and about 15 mpg in the city, moderate driving. Average mpg, 50/50 hwy/city driving is about 22.5 mpg. This is about what CR got in its real world testing.
Over in the Sonata real world mpg forum, this is around what most posters are getting. Some better, some less.
In C/D's comparo of the Accord EX V6, Camry XLE V6 (2006 Camry), Fusion SEL V6, and Sonata LX, all but the Fusion got 20 mpg in C/D's 300-mile trip. The Fusion got 21. Note that all those figures are below the overall EPA ratings.
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Maybe that's what you did, but others don't always look at the price as being the main factor when making their buying decision. The lower price of the Sonata is the only reason it seems most people (here) are buying the car, but most people have the money to pay for what they want, so they don't have to settle for a Hyundai. The CamCord prices are right where they need to be.
Actually, it's more like the prices are right where Toyota and Honda want them to be, not where the customer really needs them to be.
The really low prices on the Sonata may actually hinder people who have this perception of the linkage between price and quality from even looking at the car. They may think that it can't possibly be competitive with a Camcord, since it costs thousands less. Can a car be priced too low? Hmmm...
They don't make a $30,000 Accord. And who says the Aveo isn't as good as a Camry? They both get you from A to B.
Price isn't the only, or main, factor when people buy a car. Sure they want to be within ranges, but how many people walk into a dealership wanting to spend $25K, and walk out spending $35K? Lots.
The pipe smokers with the newspaper under their arm walking into the dealership are shunned by the salespeople.
Understood!
Most people are natural skeptics, and that's a good thing. That's why it's so important for prospective car buyers to drive the Sonata. Personally, I'm a skeptic among skeptics. When I did my test drives, I expected the Sonata to be a nice car for the money based on my research. However, after driving the cars, the Sonata's value hit me like a ton of bricks. Sure, I liked A, C, and M6 a little better, but the Sonata's value was simply overwhelming. Unlike what some are implying, value is not strictly about money. It's what you get for your money. That can be said about $10K cars or $500K cars. Where do you stop? My wallet stopped at $16600, my car went far beyond that!
I totally agree here with "perceived status". Visit other chat rooms, consumers are getting smarter by the day. They are realizing you don't have to pay the extra $$ for an Accord or Camry to get a great midsize sedan. Time, it is only a matter of time that this perception that everything Honda or Toyota is perfect will fade away. Toyota did have problems with the Camry, yet the media did not let the public know... The only place I heard of this was on the internet, in other chat rooms around the net. You have to kind of wonder why?
Huh??? Reinformcement they purchased a higher quality car??? How about you just spent extra money for nothing, and could have used that extra money towards a nice vacation...?? Higher quality in your PERCEPTION. The Fusion is of no less "qualiity" than your Accord or Toyota. Its all in your "perception" It has been so beat into your head that nothing, nothing can touch an Accord/Camry in any way shape or form.. Sad, very sad.. Choice is nice.. I won't pay extra for a perceived quality advantage. I stopped paying extra about 10 years ago and havent' looked back. All my non Honda/Toyota products have performed fine.
Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. As I explained, there are people who link price to quality. Others, like you, can look past that.
I am currently shopping for a new camera for my vacation. I asked for suggestions from my friends. Many of them suggested to buy the "high end" Sony camera which would cost me $150 more than the Canon camera that I was looking at. I asked them why? They told me, "The price is more expensive, they're in different classes. The Sony camera has more features and better image quality." But if you look closely at what features they have. They're very close . They just simply assumed that the higher price equaled more features and better quality. I started to look for reviews. The Canon happened to have better ones. They paid $150 more for an inferior camera.
Like you said, paying a higher price gives some people a feeling of buying a quality product. When they start paying for a car that's low in price, in comparison to other products. They start to wonder why its lower priced.
But, we can't assume all Camcord owner's buy their cars for this reason. I bought my car based on its merits. It had a great interior design, great seats, etc.
Gee, where have I heard this before? It sounds so familiar. Good thing I know better than to think status comes from a four-door grocery getter, or my college friends would eat me alive. I got my Accord because of the room, economy, the fact that nobody pays close to sticker (try $23,000 for V-6 models with Stability control, moonroof, 6-disc CD-Changer, 17" Alloys, etc...that price is straight from the prices paid forum...check it out)and most importantly to me, the interior quality and design. It's interior appealed to me most, and since that's the majority of what I'll look at over the life of the car, it's what I valued heavily.
Not status. If I wanted status, I wouldn't have been shopping 4-door family-haulers.
Not quite. It's about what you believe you get for the money. Your subjectivity about value is different than mine.
So! Your measurements of interior volume, noise DB, braking distance, HP, safety features, etc. are different than mine? Maybe you're from France?
Bad forumla. The real formula is "Sonata=98% of Accord-$6K +V6"
I ask myself questions such as: How do I like the leather, how do I feel in the seats, what do I think of the fit and finish of the car and much more. In other words, the Accord to me has the best fit and finish in this segment that would be worth paying more for, even if it loses to some other competitor metrics.
We're in agreement on that point, as I have already indicated. The sticking point is how much more I would pay. I would pay $1K or $2K more tops, but not $6-$7K for sure.
So! Your measurements of interior volume, noise DB, braking distance, HP, safety features, etc. are different than mine? Maybe you're from France?
I don't think that's quite fair...All that was trying to be said was that, for example, while the Sonata may have the most interior room, I don't value interior room nearly as much as I do interior quality and design, so in essence, the Sonata is not as valuable to me. If you desire interior room as a main purchase point, and find the interior of the Sonata acceptable, or even beautiful, or you don't care what the interior looks like as long as its functional, then the Sonata will hold more value to you.
THAT'S how it is subjective.
If my budget is $27K, I would pick up the Honda v6 with leather for $25K (according to edmunds tmv). I believe I'm getting $3K worth of a better car in the absolute sense.
They're not. My GLS V6 doesn't have a 6 CD changer or sun roof. I wouldn't pay a penny for a 6 CD changer or sun roof. In fact, a car without such fragile accessories is more valuable to me. I wanted leather, but had to forego it because the leather package had auto climate control that was only warranted for 5 years. I intend to keep the car for 10.
Based on everything I know, I would go $2K more on a good day. But I can certainly understand the Accord being worth a $3K premium to others.
It's a moot point anyway. For a reasonably similarly equipped Accord, the dealer wanted $6K more.
Again, even value is variable. Factoring in my tax credit, I paid $24k for a Camry Hybrid with a sunroof, bluetooth, a 440 watt sound system, and various other niceties. My car gets 34 mpg. More importantly, with my car, I'm going to be zooming along in the HOV lane while everybody else in their Sonatas and Malibus are stuck in traffic. To ME, that's extremely valuable. I have a 75 mile roundtrip commute to work. The gas savings WILL pay for the extra hybrid costs very quickly thanks for the big tax credit.
So, in my life, the Camry Hybrid is a great value. If you don't have a long commute, if you don't want some of the features it has, it might not be for you.
But look, if we were to equalize the price of all cars in the market--say every single one cost the same--what we find? I suspect the Accord and Camry would be the two best vehicles.
2007 Camry XLE V6 (heated seats, smart key, VSC): MSRP: $29,640, Street price: $27,500
2006 Accord EX V6 auto: MSRP: $27,850, Street price: $24,000
2007 Sonata V6 Limited (sunroof, Infinity stereo): MSRP: $25,345, Street price: $22,500
The street price of the 2007 Sonata is a bit misleading because it just came out. I would expect its street price to drop by an additional $2000 in the coming months.
Imagine what Hyundai, for example, could do with the Sonata if they were to charge $27k for a V6 with leather, like Honda does. Do you suppose that extra cash could pay for a better interior, fit and finish, more power etc.? Actually, we don't have to wonder. They have a car like that called the Azera that starts just under $25k. It outscored the Accord and Camry in CR's tests in acceleration, braking, rear-seat comfort, and interior fit and finish.
The Azera did well...but did it really outshine Camry/Accord with CR overall? No.
Isn't the Impala considered a "large" car as opposed to the others being discussed here though?
If an Excel meets your needs, you must have very minimal requirements in a car. It's a very small and, by today's standards, very crude car. I'm surprised you didn't buy something like a '95 Civic EX instead of a brand-new mid-sized car.
You must have missed the part in my post where I added, I choose not drive it.
Yes, I did read the report that included the Azera. I recall it being favorably reviewed, but not more so than Accord and Camry. Similarly, it should be noted that CR rated the Sonata significantly lower than Accord and Camry, that was based not so much on features but on ride and handling. As I said, for many people its a small price ot pay. But its not neccesarily smarter than paying compartively a little bit more for something that is a higher quality.
Any current mid-sized car is at least 5 times better than the ol' Excel.