Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

jimmy81

Exactly.

The fact that the Sonata costs less than a CamCord is really the only thing everybody in the Hyundaifest here touts as the greatest thing about the car.

Not a bad car if you can get around the slide off driver's seat, the weak gas mileage, the Tribeca class front end, the Hyundai reputation......etc.......

backy

It should also be noted that CR ranked the similarly-priced Accord ($23,515) and Sonata ($22,995) within two points of each other. Both were ranked "Very Good." The two Camrys that ranked significantly higher than the Sonata cost about $7000 more than the Sonata. The Sonata was one point from the lower-priced Camry LE.

Note too that the $30k Camry hybrid and the $30k Azera were ranked one point apart.

It appears to me that based on reviews like Edmunds' and CR's, when the list prices are similar, Hyundai's mid-sized cars have no trouble competing with the Camcords.

backy

The power seat on the Sonata doesn't have the slide-off problem.

If you think the front end of a Sonata looks like a Tribeca, there is an easy solution: get (better) glasses.

autoboy16

Maxima MAY have a 4.5 V8 for its next generation.

I think using the avalon and camry was a bad example....

Maybe the volvo s40 and s60 or the infiniti m35 and g35 would be better examples of what i ment..

btw i like the orange on the check spelling and cancel tabs. And the lite bule smileys ( :P :surprise: :sick:) are ok but i think it is time for some new smileys altogether...

Kirstie_H

A reporter aims to talk to some empowered consumers who pay no attention to ads and instead seek out their own information through community forums before making purchases.
Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Monday, July 10, 2006 and be sure to provide your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.

thegraduate

:confuse: --> "why am i light blue?"

m1miata

Oh dear me, for Edmund's sake, I hope people pay attention to ads. That is websites bread & butter! Ya know, my observation of TV, as an example, is that the advertisors seem to have the most talented people doing the writing, producing, and filming. Just wonderful, some of these quality ads. In-between we suffer with poor programming, though I must say, My Name Is Earl, is pretty funny

I do listen to what is said on the boards and take it into consideration as much as I would an ad. First, they may indeed have something to say which was overlooked, or unknown before or after I did research the car. Second, it is another argument for or against buying this car. An ad gets the word out, and gives one a good look at the product. The rest is digging to find out what it is really like. I do listen to ads. I do come to post and listen in on forums. There can be bull in both ads and forums.

Car reviews and reliability surveys are important. The test drive, the surveys, the reviews may indeed come before the concept of buying by what someone else says in a forum. And the ad, while good at presentation and being entertaining, is only the good side, as it should be. :shades: It sometimes gives us a good idea as to how a company sees the image of the car, and where the target is being set at.

Mid-sized sedans fall into different classes. Interestling enough, most of the chat here is not on the high end products. The low end has some style, like the Fusion, but not much in the way of say RWD performance, like the CTS and BMW line--Or the Acura FWD performance lines, for that matter. Seems like value is key on this board, and thus a lot of talk about the new Sonata. I may be wrong on this, but I am guessing more buyers of under $25K cars may be swayed by or even care to chat about, a car buying decission, than those in the above $25K range. Just a thought.
-Loren

goodegg

The power seat on the Sonata doesn't have the slide-off problem.

I think there is a big slide off problem with the Sonata LX driver's seat. There's no support under the knees. Definitely needs more 'tilt up'. An easy fix it seems.

m1miata

quote: "why am i light blue?" :confuse:

Not parked in garage, poor paint quality, or no waxing?
Could just be age?


-Loren

backy

"No support under the knees" seems to be more a cushion-length problem than a tilt-up problem. At max tilt up forward and max down in the back the cushions angle seems good to me, but I'm only 5'10".

booyahcramer

I think the average car buyer (age what? 45?) realizes that all cars nowadays are good - some just 'gooder' than others. I think the ads have a minimal affect. I think car buyers are more swayed by others at the office or their friends. Their crowd drives a certain kind of car, and that's what they want too.

There will always be the data crunching, pipesmoking, mega test driving buyers that never make an impulse buy. Only buy from the data, not their emotions. Ads etc. may work on them more. Means more information for their comparo.

They're probably not a whole lot of fun at parties tho.

maxamillion1

I've been driving around in a Pontiac G6 all day today since some lady hit my 05 Altima (the Altima may be totaled) and I have got to say that I'm somewhat impressed with the car.

My accident occured on July 4th, some lady wasn't paying attention, claims she was looking at some boats that were across the street, came out into the road and hit me smack in the front...took my front end off, and cause major damage to the sides of the car. The impact was so bad that my front grille ended up behind the back of my front passenger's tire. She took the whole front end of the car off with her...there is major damage to the front end, the engine and transmission and both airbags deployed. I was actually hit by one of the airbags..but I'm fine. My Altima unfortunately didn't have ABS or SAB/SAC..but my next vehicle WILL have these features.

The Pontiac though, is a nice car. Is it a car I'd like to own...I'm not sure, but I do think its a nice car for what it is. The styling is nice, but I can't get over how the high rear end styling intrudes with the rear visability.

Interior materials aren't Camcord levels, but they aren't bad either. Not quite as good as the Sonata's, not quite as bad as the Malibus.

I might consider one of these (GTP esp.) in the next month or so, seeing as I may no longer have my Altima.

I'm waiting to find out if it's been totaled or not.

If it's totalled, I'm checkin out the new Camry, Sonata and possibly waiting on the 07 Altima. I don't think i'd want another 05 or 06 Altima. Can't see me starting over on the same car.

I stopped by a local Honda dealer tonight and so several rare birds. THREE EX-L 5spd manuals and ONE EXV6 6spd manual with Navigation. Never thought I'd see that on one lot..and this is a SMALL dealer.

I guess I'm in the market for a new car again :mad: :confuse: :sick:

baggs32

Glad to hear you're OK max. Accidents suck.

I've always felt Altima owners and Mazda6 owners are cut from a similar mold so have you checked out an '06 Mazda6? All the safety stuff is standard, unlike the G6, so you may want to give it another shot.

Although you do drive an Accord so maybe I am misjudging you a bit.

ctalk

Isn't this the second time the Altima got hit?
If I remember correctly. The first time your Altima got sandwiched.
:sick:

Glad to hear your fine.

Keep us posted on what's going to happen.

Hope everything works out ok!

autoboy16

:sick: head cold?

ok a :lemon: joke

maxamillion1

Yep, this makes the SECOND time this car has been involved in an accident. The first accident was bad..but no mechanical damage was done..this accident has destroyed the engine,transmission, and the whole entire front end..along with a busted winshield and two deployed airbags. Since I'm only 20 most folks in my family assummed the accident was my fault. But it wasn't. The lady was kind enough to admit to her wrong doing on the scene and if she hadn't, there were witnesses everywhere.

As far as the Altima, even if its not totaled, I have pretty much decided to rid myself of it. I've been wanting a new car anyway...so what better time than now. I'm in between the new Camry SE or waiting on the next Altima. I'd really like to wait on the next Accord, but I fear that will take too long. The current Accord is super nice...but the styling is getting dated..and I can't see me making payments on a car that's about to be replaced so soon. I want something with EVERY safety feature available. I've got two young nephews and a young niece who ride with me all the time...I need the latest and greatest in safety.

I'll just be glad when everything is settled...the poor car has been through enough. Sad thing is I'd just washed the car...and filled its tank ($54!!!)

I love the car, but it's been in two wrecks...it's time for me to rid myself of it I think.

I'm not buying ANYTHING until the new Altima hits the lots. I drive stick so that excludes the Camry XLE, Aura Lineup and many of GM's cars...

I did check out the Mazda6 and while the car has super impressive handling, I don't find the interior to be as attractive as my Altimas and its a bit too cramped for me. The Accord feels similar and even the G6 doesn't feel as roomy as my Altima does. If I had to go with a Mazda today, it would be the Mazda3 S Grand Touring. I find the 3 to be a more upscale car than the 6 for some reason.

Either way, within the next couple of months I'll be driving my ole 91 Accord. If the Altima is totaled, I'm saving the money and getting something around tax time next year, if it's not I'm getting rid of the car and buying something around tax time. At least then I'll know a little more about the next Accord and next Mazda6 by that time.

Hopefully Honda and Mazda will show these cars off in Detroit, NYC, LA or Chicago. But we all know if Honda shows the next Accord off, it will be a coupe "concept"

Only time will tell what I'll end up getting. The 07 Sonata GLS with 5spd is a formidable choice as well..and would put me in a car for around the same payments as the Altima. The 07 Passat has my eye too...since 6spd manuals are available across the 2.0t range now.

I have to remember that I have college to deal with, so car payments have to be as cheap as possible.

Thanks for the words of kindness guys.

bhmr59

Sorry about the accident. Good thing is that you're OK.

From your description the car definately is totaled. No doubt about it.

jrock65

Since a manual transmission is a requirement for you, if you went with the Sonata GLS or the Camry SE, you would have to get a 4 cylinder.

The 2007 Altima you could get a manual with both the 4 cyl. and the V6. A 6-speed manual 265+ hp/ 255+ lb.ft Altima (and apparently with minimal torque steer) will be a blast to drive.

ontop

A 6-speed manual 265+ hp/ 255+ lb.ft Altima (and apparently with minimal torque steer) will be a blast to drive

Minimal torque steer eh? Or as Clinton says 'it depends on the meaning of minimal'. Torque steer will always be there, especially adding a 6sp to the mix.

Is Nissan on life support? What do they have to offer on their lots? The Altimas have fire issues, the Maximas are sitting, Pathfinders and Armadas are dying a slow death, Titans are huge gas guzzlers, the appeal of a Sentra is what? The Quest is getting it's clock cleaned. Maybe Exterras are doing OK. The Nissan dealer near me used to use the WalMart next door for overflow parking of inventory. Those days are gone. The Nissan lot is wide open now.

backy

That situation will change very soon. The new Versas are already starting to arrive. Then the all-new Altimas and Sentras will come. The Maxima has been reworked for 2007 also. So there will be lots of new sheet metal to draw people to Nissan dealers. I myself will stop in today to see if my closest dealer has any Versas yet.

kdhspyder

I am certain that your statement is correct. However the basic tenet of a free market system is that a transaction will be made when perceived value meets or exceeds the cost.

I am certain that both Toyota and Honda have done huge amounts of research to determine what makes buyers 'pull the trigger' and at what price point that occurs. If they didn't believe that the buyers would be willing to pay $22-27K for a midsized vehicle then they wouldn't. Results seem to bear out the research, wouldn't you say?

maxamillion1

I'm already aware that I'll have to get a I4 to get a manual tranny in the Sonata GLS or Camry SE.

Since I'll be looking primarily at 07 models, the GLS will ONLY be available as an I4 anyway, and the Camry SE will probably not cut it seeing as they are hard to find with stickshifts in the SE region.

I'll probably opt for an 07 Altima 2.5S or 3.5SE or the Accord EXV6. I don't think I could stand to look at the body kit on the Camry for five years. It looks good now, but I'm doubting I'll be able to stand it in three years or so.

I went out today and looked some...I really want to hold out on the new Altima before I buy anything, seeing as I had one before.

I'll make my decision soon enough.

backy

A few other options you might want to check out are the Fusion and/or Milan 5-speed, the Passat 2.0T, and if you don't need a lot of interior room, the Jetta. I haven't driven the Passat yet but I thought the Fusion 5-speed was pretty nice (if you like the styling) and the Jetta 5-speed is fun to drive also. And since you are considering the Sonata I4 and Altima I4, why not look at the Accord I4 too? The EX is nicely equipped and has a great stick.

Glad you were not injured, but it doesn't look good for your car based on what you said. I learned a few weeks ago when my son was in an accident with his 626 that cars are totalled when the damages reach 70% of the car's value. We barely staved off having the 626 totalled, and only because the insurance adjuster was able to find a few parts in a junkyard to bring the repair costs down. And it was a fairly minor accident. Not much damage to the car, but both front airbags went off--that was about 50% of the cost of repair.

maxamillion1

Already considering the Passat 2.0t (especially with the Sport pkg. and manual tranny available for 07) but the Fusion and Milan really aren't on my list of cars to consider. I can't stand the interior design and craftmanship of those cars. They are very nice cars, just not my cup of tea.

The Accord is being considered as well (I mentioned seeing about 5 Accord 5spds with leather in a previous post) but I can't care for the Accord's styling...it's long in the tooth.

Best thing for me to do is just wait until sometime next year and get something else, even if the car isn't totaled, I'm ridding myself of it ASAP.

lightfootfl

My 2 cents. I am presently driving a 2006 Altima 250 rental unit with 24K miles. Everything about it seems nice enough, but I think the engine noise at anything above 40 mph is just too much for me to ever consider it as a personal car. I know I am particular about that, but it just bugs me. I haven't even gone on any trips with it, as I figured it would bother me too much, so I don't know about the highway speeds above say 50 mph.. most of my usage has been around town. I will certainly be glad to get my (pardon the expression) Sable Wagon back out of the shop.. It got smacked in the front passenger side, been in the shop for 2 weeks now. For the most part, I prefer my new Hyundai Sonata LX. It is quiet, and I haven't found anything yet about it that I don't like, except the mileage. I am only getting a shade under 19mpg so mostly urban driving. (city-type) Hwy was only 25mpg.

scape2

My fusion v6 sel is now averaging 24.2 mpg, down from 25.8. probably because i am using the a/c a bit more. Someone had posted the interior noise levels of the Fusion. I took a look closer and noticed some serious sound insulation in the doors and front panrls/fenders of the vehicle. This car is quiet on the road and when driving normal. Put your foot into it and the engine will growl

m1miata

Oh no, the insulation is exposed in the Fusion !!! :surprise:
................................
................................. just kidding. Style is back at Ford.

-loren

94hawkskin

I went home on vacation from Baton Rouge to Iowa last week and the entire family that drives mostly Honda's and Toyota's were really impressed.

My brother in law rode in the car when we went golfing and was complimenting me on the looks and feel of the car. He then asked if he could drive it home so that my sister could look at it as they are in the market for there next car. They currently drive a 2001 Honda Accord and have been Accord owners for a long time (at least 3).

He then said what does one of these go for and he said probably at least 20K right? And I said nope, about 17K. He then said his decision was made for their next car.

I know I'm bragging, but once people ride in these Sonata's they realize how great these cars are.

jimmy81

Wow! How about that! No kiddin? Really? Wow!

luvmbooty

Why is it when someone says something good about the Sonata, there is always some derogatory comment to come after. I priced all V6s in my zip code (NYC area) that come under $20,000.

2006 TMVs are Sonata GLS V6 with no options: $17,694 (rebate 2,500), Chevy Malibu LT with airbags and traction control: $19,494(rebate 750), Pontiac G6 base with side airbags, 4 anti-lock brakes and traction, and convenience package: $19,514 (rebate 750), Kia Optima LX V6 with no options: $15,824 (rebate 2,500), Suzuki Verona with no options: $17,391 (rebate 1,000). I was surprised to see the Ford Fusion didn't make it under 20,000. TMV for Fusion with anti-lock brakes, safety and security package, and traction assist: $20,603 (rebate 1,000).

Now I know a lot of Camry and Accord fans will say it doesn't compare, but I wouldn't compare because I compare by price and my price range is under 20,000. If you can afford over then GOD BLESS YOU!

Out of these 6 cars, the Sonata is the car for me. To all Camry and Accord fans which would you chose?

m1miata

Is that the i4 engine Sonata, I assume. What gas mileage are you getting? Do they take regular oil filters? If not, how much is your local dealer charging for a change?

Glad you like your car. I think the Sonata looks better than the Azera and did better in crash tests too. I like the idea of telescopic steering column, which I am thinking may be on the top line Sonata -- or was that only the Azera. Anyway, I sat in a few, some time back, and they seemed well made. Good enough that I would at the very least test drive one, and compare it in every way to the rest, to see how it stacks up. Everyone sees life, and cars a little different than the next. And I go through cycles too, where I buy conservative, then more sporty.

From Accord to VW, I say research and drive them all. What is comfortable to one, stylish, or feel or ride, may be totally the opposite for another person. To each his or her own, you may say. And I am glad people are happy, and proud of their Hyundai choice as much as another person liking their Honda, or heck some BMW or Lexus, for that matter. If they have something to offer the group here in the way of information, good or bad, on any price range of car, it helps someone for sure. Someone for every car.
-Loren

ctalk

June 2006
Camry- 41,427 ($750 incentive on 2006)
Accord- 32,587
Impala- 30,716 ($500 incentive)
G6- 17,074 ($750 G6 V6)
Malibu- 15,443 ($750 incentive, maxx and V6)
Altima- 14,127 ($1,750 incentive)
Fusion- 13,691 ($500 incentive)
Sonata- 11,739 ($1,000 incentive on 2007 Models, $2,500 incentive on 2006 V6, $1,500 on 2006 I4)
Mazda6- 5,323 ($2,500 incentive)
Passat- 4,794 (special financing)
Milan- 3,194 ($500 incentive)
Galant- 2,574 ($1,500 on 2006, $2,500 on 2005)

Incentive Spending (in highest order)
1. Sonata
2. Mazd6
3. Altima
4. Galant
5. Malibu (tie)
6. Camry (tie)
7. G6 (tie)
8. Fusion
9. Impala
10.Milan
11.Passat
12.Accord

All information is sourced from Automotive News, an independent automobile news company, autoweek is also owned by Automotive News.

luvmbooty

Isn't the Impala considered a large sedan?

m1miata

Does look like dollar wise the Sonata remains the lowest price. You may try Ford on the Fusion V6, as no price really sticks at Ford and GM. You never pay close to retail on those cars. That said, Sonatas are never at retail. Nice warranty though on Sonata compared to wimpy ones by other makes.
For style I am kinda liking the Fusion, in the FWD sedan field on cars in the lowest $20Ks. Give Honda and Toyota a try and see how much they budge on price. If within a couple thousand, it may be worth it come trade in time. Price in and out, and loss of a couple grand for a few years. Now when it gets into $5k difference, then ouch! Pontiac G6, if you like its electric assist steering, it not too expensive come close out time. Remember, panic will set in at GM soon, as the 2007 models start to arrive. Or better yet and one year old car used, for say $7K off ain't too bad. As for the Kia and Suzuki, I would not go there, but that's just me maybe. Seems like even lower resale values than Hyundai. I think Hyundai comes out of the bad reputation category, with increasing resale value, faster than the others. IMHO.
-Loren

m1miata

Well so is the Sonata. -- large car that is!
The newely refreshed Impala reminds me on a pregnant Accord.

At any rate, the Impala is pretty good competition to the other mid-sized cars. The Malibu, technically is the competition, yet it really is in never-never land where it is not always seen as good competition to Accord, and perhaps not to be compared to the Corolla or Civic. It is just out there - all alone. Please adopt one soon.
-Loren

luvmbooty

I just wanted to show the comparision of closely priced V6 mid-size sedans. Fusion IIHS.org gave lowest crash test scores in its class. I had a Pontiac Grand Am. NEVER AGAIN, PONTIAC! :lemon: Kia and Suzuki, I wuoldn't go there either! Resale values don't concern me since I keep my cars over 5 years.

luvmbooty

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

backy

What this doesn't show is the factory-to-dealer incentives. Honda commonly offers those on the Accord, for example, permitting dealers to offer near-or-below invoice pricing and still make a profit.

thegraduate

Perhaps Malibu owners should have their's spayed or neutered, per - Bob Barker's pitch to America at the end of the price is right, and help control the cheaply-made popul...I mean pet population?

thegraduate

Exactly. Currently, a factory-to-dealer incentive is in place in the amount of $750 on sedans, $1,000 on coupes (I'm positive about the sedan's incentives, the coupe may be a different amount however).

elroy5

Out of these 6 cars, the Sonata is the car for me. To all Camry and Accord fans which would you chose?

Sorry, don't want any of those cars. I would save up a couple more thousand, and get what I want. An Accord EX V6. You pick what's right for you.

bhmr59

Your responce ignored the question of what new mid-size car to buy for under $20,000.

ykang

What did you expect from elroy5?
Haven't you read his/her previous posts? :sick:

goodegg

Why does it have to be under $20,000? Why not under $15000 or under $12000.

elroy5

Sorry, but your 6 cars would not cut it (low quality, bad reputations). If it had to be under $20k, I would have to go with the Civic. I would rather have a loaded Civic, than a bare bones Accord. That's just me.

kdhspyder

Under $20K I'd say the Sonata has this locked up. This is a good thing for all concerned; consumers, Hyundai and all the other competitors as well.

When at some time in the future the market changes this equilibrium will have to be adjusted in some manner.

kdhspyder

This is also the view of more than 600,000 new owners annually as well.

luvmbooty

Because there is no V6 mid-size sedans under $15,000 or $12,000! :mad:

luvmbooty

Didn't your Mama teach you,'If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all!' :P

mfletou1

At this point, just can the TMV's. Never has there been a more useless piece of informaton.

I just bought a car for three THOUSAND under the Edmunds TMV. And the sad thing is that among the last three cars purchased in my family, that's not even abnormal, they were all thousands under TMV.

Now, I fancy myself quite the negotiator, but c'mon...the last car I bought from a no-haggle dealer. The point is that Edmunds TMV is not going to be the actual transaction price if you have a pulse. I know that these forums are owned by Edmunds so maybe we all are polite and pretend, but out in the real world, forget it.

So with that in mind, you're being awfully rigid in your under $20k. I never understood people's hang ups---you are spending at least 20 large on a car, and you're going to walk away over another $600 that when you finance out comes out to next to nothing? Really? A better way would just be to simple give a range, since I'm literally positive most people can get that particular Fusion under $20, if they have a pulse.

The argument for the Accord/Camry (and particularly Accord) in that price range is that the 4 cylinders perform better than the V6 versions of many of the cars you listed. I know Consumer Reports have found that in the past. And, as I've been arguing, you get what you pay for in terms of resale. Very, very very few people actually run their cars into death. At some point, you WILL dispose of your car, and if you are a Camry or Accord owner, you will get back what you put in. Fact of life. If you are a current Sonata owner, you are getting a great deal, but you are going to be dealing with an absolutely flooded used car market thanks to the high percentage of fleet sales that are going to end up as 1-2 year old rental cars. There will be great deals out there for people on a budget who will be able to afford to get into a nice, safe car like a Sonata thanks to that, but its bad news for resale. As a GM owner, I know all about this. Trust me.