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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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My Malibu Maxx has a 3.5L 200 HP V6. Its 1.1L bigger than the Accord engine. The Accord is at least as quick, if not quicker. So's my Camry.
Looking at the numbers (test results), it looks to me like an Accord 4 cyl can run with a Fusion V6. That's really all that matters in that particular debate.
By the way, just to follow my point, if I were to take the bowtie off my Malibu Maxx and replace it with a Cadillac badge, something would feel very, very wrong.
Now that you mention it, some cars such as the Honda Fit Sport with AT do have transmission controls on the steering wheel. From reports I've read they work pretty slick. So that feature may come sooner than you think to mid-sized sedans.
0-30 Fusion 2.9 sec, Accord 3.1
0-45 Fusion 5.0 sec, Accord 5.1
0-60 Fusion 7.7 sec, Accord 7.6
0-75 Fusion 11.2 sec, Accord 10.9
1/4 mile Fusion 15.7 sec at 90 mph
1/4 mile Accord 15.6 sec at 91.4 mph
Basically I call that a wash. Fusion slightly better off the line, Accord slightly better at higher speed.
In any event, no way will the 4 banger Accord hang with the V-6 Fusion. If it does, then no one should be buying a V-6 Accord as they are getting nothing for their money!
ABS comes standard for Five Hundred. Crash test scores are perfect for Five Hundred.
Bothe are getting the $1,000 cash back. I think you could buy a Five Hundred for $1,000 or less more than the Fusion.
Want to muddy the waters even more? We just bought a new Grand Caravan SE with Stow and Go option and with another $2k preferred equipment package for only $19555. Over $7k off MSRP. EPA mileage 19 city 26 highway. It won't blow your socks off acceleration wise, but with the seats folded down you could nearly stick one of these midsizers inside it!
I hang around this discussion some though, as the minivan is primarily my wife's car. The next purchase will likely be a midsize sedan, though a few years down the road.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2006&make=Honda&model=Ac- cord&trimid=-1
Honda Accord sedan - I4 2.4L (166 hp) 5A + ABS 7.91 16.22 90.80
Honda Accord sedan EX - V6 3.0L (244 hp) 5A + ABS 7.80 15.88 93.70
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2006&make=Ford&model=Fus- ion&trimid=-1
Ford Fusion SEL V6 - 3.0L DOHC (221 hp) 6A + ABS 7.47 15.78 92.30
Ford Fusion SEL - I4 2.3L (160 hp) 5A + ABS 9.36 17.27 82.50
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2007&make=Toyota&model=C- amry&trimid=-1
Toyota Camry XLE - V6 3.5L (268 hp) 6A + ABS 6.70 15.05 98.80 140
So you see they had the Accord 4 cyl just about a half second slower than the Fusion. Which to ME, means that the Accord 4 cyl will run with the Fusion.
You are correct--pure 0-60 acceleration is not a reason to buy Accord V6. That's how good the Accord 4 cyl. is. Once you get up to higher speed, or talk about passing power, the Accord V6 shows itself to be quicker, but its not a huge difference 0-60.
So make sure you are paying attention when you drag race your Fusion against an Accord 4 cyl--a half second isn't much time for the Accord to make up on you!
I believe the MSN information is overoptimistic for the 4 cylinder Accord automatic. Typos can and do creep into some of this data.
I've found major discrepancies between Edmunds and others. There's no chance their Camry Hybrid numbers are correct, I think most of us who own that car would agree. R&T and C&D have it much quicker than Edmunds (over a 2 second differential).
BMW 330: 255HP6600 rpm, 220 ft-lbs2750 rpm, average torque= 0.080 ft-lbs/rpm (5.7s)
Sonata :235 HP6000rpm, 226 ft-lbs3500 rpm, average torque=0.065 ft-lbs/rpm (7.3s)
Camry: 268 HP6200 rpm, 248 ft-lbs4700 rpm, average torque = 0.053 ft-lbs/rpm (6.7s)
Ford Fusion 221HP6250 205 ft-lbs4800rpm, average torque = 0.043 ft-lbs/rpm (7.5s)
Accord: 244HP6224rpm, 211 ft-lbs5000 rpm, average torque = 0.041 ft-lbs/rpm (7.8s)
Accord: 166HP5800rpm, 166 ft-lbs4000rpm, average torque = 0.040 ft-lbs/rpm (7.9s)
Accord V6 is not really much better than Accord I4 unless you get the engine to very high rpm over 5000 rpm, which most people never do.
Is it the 220/2750 giving 0.080?
What's really needed is the graph of the torque across the rpm as the horizontal axis. You'll see the difference. It's available for GM motors. I don't see one listed, however.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What a ridiculous statement! Must be Elbonian engineering!
Vehicle weight (HP/weight ratio), transmission and final gear ratios, tires and traction are as important or more important than pure engine torque.
160 horsepower is plenty sufficient to move in today's 80MPH world. If I can do it in my old 1996 130 hp Accord, and I haven't been squashed or burned up my automatic tranny yet, I think 160 hp is just icing on the cake.
I rarely use the steering wheel controls on my car either. You have to take your eyes off the road to use those as well, so that argument is kinda lame. Definitely a gimmick. So are paddle shifters.
0 to 60 (Fastest published time):
Camry V6 auto: 6.1s (R&T)
Accord V6 auto: 6.6s (C&D)
Sonata V6 auto: 6.6s (C&D)
Fusion V6 auto: 7.4s (C&D)
Accord I4 manual: 7.5s (R&T)
Accord I4 auto: 7.9s (MSN/CR)
Please update if you have a faster published result for any of the above.
I'd have to disagree, at least with the controls in my Accord. I've had the car for less than 9,000 miles, and I know exactly which rocker switch/button my finger is on just by feeling. It is nice to me FOR THAT REASON that you don't have to take eyes off the road OR hands off of the wheel. If you look closely, you will see the ridges on the buttons/switches. Each has a different pattern (one has a single ridge=volume/cruise while other has several raised dots, like braille="cancel" and "CHannel"), one that is easy to discern, making quick learning of the wheel controls.
It would make me feel better to see commuters using such buttons, because it means they don't have to drive with their knee because a cell phone is in the other and the volume is too loud to hear the phone conversation! They can use the one good hand and keep it on the wheel while turning the volume down.
It's easy to me. Outside (farthest from hub) buttons are most commonly used...Volume (left) and Accelerate/Decelerate (right). Inwards is channel changing rocker (left) and "cancel" for the cruise.
I don't have NAV, so I don't have the voice-activation buttons shown in the picture, so I can't comment on those realistically.
Ready for that Fusion yet m1miata?
New Ford warranty for 2007 and beyond.
You took the words right outta my mouth.
VERY similar designs. It works, though, so there's nothing wrong with that.
That's why you need a Hands Free Link for a bluetooth phone found in a TL, and soon to be found in probably every car in this comparo.
Now that's a great feature. The steering wheel controls for audio and HVAC are gimmicky to me. The audio controls are 6" from my right hand when I drive. Yea I gotta take my eyes off the road for 1 sec. sometimes, but I guess I'm a wild man or something, living on the edge.
Climate control I don't need on the wheel (rarely adjusted by me), but I've seen some bad things happen in 1 sec looks off the road. I once hit an 18-wheeler tire on I-59 as I looked over my shoulder to change lanes. It ended up doing some damage to my car, and it was technically my fault for looking away from the road. Luckily, that was in my old 96...that poor thing has seen a lot over the years!
What on earth do people have to talk about so much these days. I see people in car, in restaurants, bathrooms, on the street, heck maybe in their showers (don't personally know), all using cell phones. I take it they are slaves to this little device. If radiation from phones is harmful, hospital should be full in around tens years time.
I would personally like to see people driving their cars and not chatting so much on phones. Turning down the radio while in town so they can hear what is going on around them is important, yet rarely done. I take it cars are now rolling homes, as I see people brushing their teeth, eating, and drinking. I will leave the back seat action out of this conversation. Actually, you see about everything going on, but driving.
As for radio controls on the steering wheel, I guess it is interesting, and it may be of value to those in need of changing channels and CDs a lot. I don't have a CD player, but did get a MP3 player, so I got continuous music, when needed on longer trips.
Cruise control on the steering wheel makes perfect sense. Haven't had cruise for a number on years though. Traffic is pretty tight most of the time anyway. Right foot is my only cruise at this time.
-Loren
2005 Buick Lesabre
Acura RL
Looking over the shoulder is what they say to always do. I am not so sure, as in your case, it is always best. If the mirrors are properly adjusted for the blind spots, and the center mirror is giving you the read to the back, it should cover all bases. When going on to a freeway however, the angle of approach is such that a couple of looks over shoulder makes perfect sense, along with the mirrors. I look to the right as well, for an out if needed.
-Loren
Yeah, I think if within a couple thousand of the Sonata, the Fusion may sell well. Sonata will still have longer warranty and stability control ( I keep hands on steering wheel for control + foot on gas
Side note: Chrysler is down to 3 yr. warranty. GM starts at 3 yr, but they have 4yr, and well (your warranty may vary depending on car chosen)
-Loren
Looks like the tach, while not really needed, on the LeSabre, may be easier to read than on the New Stangs. Retro instruments - yuk. I think they take some things from the past, make them look racier, while becoming impossible to use. And this fake aluminum is out of hand - please, end the madness!
-Loren
I was in a very upscale restaurant (read quite expensive!) about 6 months ago. We had a glorious dinner and all in all it was just an over-the-top evening. As we were leaving, I spotted a couple whose dinner was plated in front of them. They both had those ear-wrap-around phone things and they BOTH were talking to others on the danged phone!!
Wow. Why even come to the restaurant with each other. Better yet, if you're going to jab at your very delicious and expensive dinner while you are distracting yourself with some unseen person in your ear, why not go to McDonalds??
I thought you were going to say the phones rang during dinner. That's my pet peeve. I glare and stare when that happens other than Wendy's type places.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well of course! Otherwise, one caller couldn't hear over the other one!
But it's an improvement. Maybe it will force GM and DC to improve their warranties.
Surely you must take your eyes off the road to check your gauges (including speedometer) and mirrors. It doesn't take me any longer to glance at the radio or climate controll up/down buttons than it takes to check my mirors or gauges.
The steering wheel controls are a minor convenience. If someone knows which button is which, that same person probably knows the layout of the buttons on the dashboard. In fact, people may have to take their eyes off the road in order to push the desired button on the steering wheel.
But if the traffic/driving conditions are so severe, maybe the driver shouldn't be too concerned about the radio station or a couple degrees difference on the climate control.
i put my favorite station on '1' and the kids on '4'. tap it 3 times and you can get to either.
audio volume can be changed without anyone knowing.
i like that i can change the temperature and fan speed without looking.
the cruise is nice. tap up or down to change speed by 1 mph.
i like all those buttons.
The steering wheel controls are a minor convenience (more valuable to some that others) but not a safety feature.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
VW Passat 3.6 overall mpg:22* 0-60: 6.8 sec.
Honda Accord EX V6 overall mpg:23, 0-60: 7.4 sec.
Hyundai Sonata GLS V6 overall mpg:21, 0-60: 7.5 sec.
VW Passat 2.0T overall mpg:24* 0-60: 7.7 sec.
Ford Fusion SEL V6 overall mpg:20, 0-60: 8.0 sec.
Honda Accord EX 4-cyl overall mpg:24, 0-60: 9.0 sec.
Toyota Prius overall mpg:44, 0-60: 10.5 sec.
Honda Civic EX (manual trany) overall mpg:31, 0-60: 8.6 sec.
*Uses Premium gasoline!
Heck, I have the voice-activated controls on my Accord so I don't have to press any buttons at all... fan speed, AC, radio, CD, Navi, etc. but I still find it easier to use the controls on the dash.
Toyota Camry Hybrid cvt: 7.3s (R/T)
VW Paasat 3.6: $35,696
VW Passat 2.0T: $28,597
Honda Accord EX V6: $26,935
Toyota Prius: $26,206
Honda Accord EX 4cyl: $24,803
Ford Fusion SEL V6: $24,161
Hyundai Sonata LX: $23,065
Honda Civic EX: $19,532