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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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i don't understand what this statement has to do with anything i wrote or with the price of tea in china for that matter. or what your argument is with me.
in the poster’s opinion, the sonata was more satisfying than the malibu. it follows that the poster was weighing whether the extra cost of the sonata was worth it. hence, what the malibu had in its favor was the lower price.
This is from James Healey of USA Today on his May 12 chat:
"...If the Japanese brands are putting something in the water of all CR readers and survey-responders, maybe you could have a case. But I know those folks and their methods and only use them as a reference point because I do know those things. In fact, I think many at CR's auto-test unit drive American cars, showing no personal animosity toward Detroit (but also perhaps making one wonder why they don't take their own advice)."
For every perfect 10 by an owner who loves the Sonata a troll only has to give it a 5.0...... average 7.5. It's hardly a scientific evaluation.
Now throw out the top 10% and the bottom 10% of all the reviews like I did here once and the number is more likely to be accurate with public opinion.
Just for kicks.. taking out the top 10 ( all 10's ) and the bottom 10 ( mostly 5's ) the middle 80% is at 9.2 rating.
I also said the Malibu may serve the poster's need and desired features at a lower price than other cars (including the Sonata). I was not putting down any of the cars under discussion.
Maybe Elroy loves CR. I don't and said that this is because of what I felt was a bias 30 or so years ago, before Honda & Toyota became players. There's no anti-Camcord implication in that statement. Maybe a certain "consumer advocate's" association at the time helped develop my dislike for CR.
Example: When I was shopping around for a new car in 91. I test drove a Grand Prix (based on looks and sportyness). Then I decided to buy a Consumer Reports mag. to see what they considered to be a good car. The 92 Accord was called "A class act" by CR, the Grand Prix was rated below average. Since I had already herd good things about the Accord from a friend who owned an older Accord, I decided to try one out. I was very pleasantly surprised. The Accord looked like a smaller car than the Grand Prix (from the outside) but when you sat inside each car, the Accord was more comfortable. I bought the Accord, and never regretted it, for 12 wonderful years. The few 92 Grand Prix that are still left on the road, look and sound like they are on their last leg (almost extinct). I'm sure glad Consumer Reports, and a helpful friend, suggested the Accord to me. In my opinion, they helped me make the right decision.
Maybe they (CR) keep picking the Accord, because it keeps proving them right, time after time.
I think if a wide variety of sources come up with the same conclusions, you can pretty much rely on it. Most of the time, that's what happened---rare is the situation where Car and Driver hates a car that CR loves.
Good luck betting against a car not having the defects or problem areas listed in the survey. You can beat the odds, but that is a tougher row to hoe.
There is nothing fine about the interior, BTW.
Agree that the Impala has a decent interior. Exterior looks like a pregnant Accord = not bad, smooth - nothing that stands out as American in looks though.
-Loren
:mad:
:shades: Loren
:P Actually, this is hondas 30th anniversary so honda was around 30 years ago. Toyota, err....
-Cj
thanks.
Enjoy your Jeep!
-Cj :shades:
Ok! In my mind, its official. The Sonata is a good sedan. I decided to be amongst the few who accept it. Its price isn't what grabbed my attention. It was its surprising good looks(exterior). Unfortunatly, the interior needs some work...
The Bad News
Since Geely is coming I foind out that they plan on bringing over a camry size sedan (its a link. click it please) and how Geely doesn't like toyota. All of that is said in the paragraph before "What this means to you"
If the sonata had a hard time fitting in, imagine how we'll feel about a whole new company with dirt cheap cars
What this means to you: Alpha Romeo is coming back but they aren't the only company to come. Smart, Chery, Geely, and plenty more will be here soon!!
btw i haven't heard anything about the new Optima except for its v6 being a waste of gas and money by only making around 10-35 more hp than its 4cyl...
-Cj :P
Wow. Good looks for the Sonata? I can accept that the car is mechically a good vehicle, and the pricing is awesome.
But good looks? The Sonata reminds me of a girl with a nice body..... but with paper bag looks.
Ive driven the 4cyl verison, which is actually a pleasant surprise. Highs Tight build quality, refined and powerful 4cyl, smooth and transparent 5pd auto, pleasant interior design w/excellent material usage.
Lows Rough suspension tuning on LX 4 cyl,cheap tires on LX 4cyl, seats could use add'l bolstering.
Although this vehicle was a rental that i was using, i was very impressed, i did some add'l research and found out you can get an EX model with dual powered front seats w/multi level heaters, auto climate control, rear sunshade, electrochromatic rearview mirror w/compass and homelink, electro gauges, and all of the audio controls on the sterring wheel. A 4cyl EX can be had for around 23k, but with incentives i was given a quote for $19k. A screaming value, and if i were ready to buy today, i would proably choose the optima or a Sonata V6.
Never buy a beautiful car. It will never be happy with 1 owner, and will run around on you.
All seriousness aside, your bias is showing. I've gotten far more compliments on my 06 Sonata than any other vehicles I have owned. So you are in the minority. Beautiful? No! Butt-ugly? Not by a long shot!
It actually grabbed my attention. An then on the Sonata 2006+ forum, they had a picture of the interior with an on-board computer system on page, I post her link to the pictures here
Hyundai has been here 20 years?? I guess since the vehicles had little eye candy, they didn't stand out to me. The 2007 santa fe also looks good. I just hope the 3rd row isn't like the one on the Highlander(top)
or 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander(shown bottom)
If that was going to be the case, :mad: they should have left the Montero... Toyota's are acceptable but the 07 outlanders are beyond poor. A 3rd row should be available in the Endeavor not outlander. If given a choice and had to pick, which one would you put a child in? Hopefully highlander.
-Cj :shades:
Bias?
I don't like the looks of the front of the Sonata. The rear's OK. That ad for the Sonata - the Hyundai challenge one - really makes the car look awkward.
Many others have expressed the same thing. Cars need to look good IMO. They present an image. And yes - you are what you drive. Go ahead and drive a Hyundai. Noone will confuse you with someone with an eye for style. Just for someone with an eye on their wallet (not always a bad thing bro). To each his own.
The Accord, on the other hand, while receiving universal praise for the overall car itself, hasn't received much praise for its styling. Quite a few have commented on its "awkwardness".
The Camry styling has been polarizing. Some really like it, some really don't.
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"Noone will confuse you with someone with an eye for style."
Speak for yourself. You don't like the Sonata and that is fine. You don't speak for everyone else. Many people find the Sonata stylish, including myself, an Accord owner.
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"Just for someone with an eye on their wallet."
Yet another immature dig at Sonata owners. Have you ever considered that Sonata owners actually buy it because they like the car itself, regardless of the value proposition?
I got some news for you. No one gives "props" to anyone for driving a Sonata, but no one gives "props" to anyone for driving a Camry or Accord either. To the general public, all of these cars lemmings -- they are vehicles that they see in droves every day. The general public couldn't care less whether it's a Camry, Sonata, or Accord.
And the price of the car is it's major selling point. Priced like an Accord, they'd sell half as many.
Everyone here doesn't have to like the Sonata.
Note their idea of "world class fuel economy". 31 MPG highway with the 2.4L I4? That's it? Don't most, if not all, of the other cars compared in this thread beat that handily? :confuse: Some of the V6s even beat it IIRC! Not good for this day and age Dr. Z.
"As a Chrysler insider you know that for us, inspiration comes standard. That's why we want you to be among the first to learn about the all-new 2007 Chrysler Sebring. Sign up for updates now and you'll receive exclusive details and special offers for the sedan that is poised to inspire.
Strikingly beautiful design, cutting-edge technology, world-class fuel economy,* and exhilarating performance combine to make Sebring a rewarding driving experience every time you get behind the wheel.
From the sculpted hood to the 18-inch available chrome wheels, Sebring's exterior evokes excitement. Inside, innovative technology like the MyGIG™ Multimedia Infotainment System with SIRIUS® Satellite Radio and a 20GB hard-drive makes it easy to enjoy your favorite music and photos on the road.
Sebring's 2.4-liter World Engine with dual variable valve timing (VVT) was designed for exceptional power, durability, and efficiency. A 2.7-liter V6 (available on Touring) offers flex fuel (E85) capability,† while a 3.5L (available on Limited) V6 delivers thrilling performance.
And that's just the beginning. The Sebring is poised to revive your passion for driving. Sign up now, and get ready to change your perceptions.
* EPA est. 23 city/31 highway mpg with the 2.4-Liter, DOHC, 16-Valve, VVT, SMPI I4 Engine.
† When properly equipped. Not available in CA, NY, ME, MA and VT.
SIRIUS is a registered trademark of SIRIUS Satellite Radio, Inc. "
And does the average consumer know how much 18" tires are to replace?
You mean folks won't think I look like a sophisticated international playboy driving my midsize family sedan? Aargh... I'm crushed.
Kinda sad that Chrysler of 2007 is just now catching up to Honda's economy of 1994. My 1996 Accord Automatic gets the same 23/31MPG that Chrysler's "world-class-economy" Chrysler gets.
World-class must mean to Chrysler that it's better than something in the world, and not much else.
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I saw the sebring thing too. Its 2.4l I4 offers a "stunning :surprise: " 172hp and 165 lb ft of torque. Its finally in the game. A 2.7l v6 is available for the touring and a 3.5l v6 is available for the limited. My v6 accord has a 2.7l v6 with 170hp and 165lb ft of torque. The engine size is similar to the sebrings and the hp figure is comparable to the 4 cylinder. Seems like the 4cyls have caught up with the old v6s... Is that good or bad? :confuse:
ps the 3.5l v6 has 250 hp and 250 lb ft of torque. Hope fully the rear head rests that were MIA are finally in action
-Cj :confuse:
Fine, you like a stylish car. So do I. But neither you, I nor ontop speak for the "people" when it comes to style. Personally, I find the 06 Accord generic, but less generic than the 02. In the end, I think all of these cars are more or less generic. Generic sells in this segment.
"And the price of the car is it's major selling point. Priced like an Accord, they'd sell half as many."
Price a GS300 like a E350, and Lexus would sell half as many. Does that mean that the price of the GS is its major selling point? Nope. Pricing is important for all cars.
"Everyone here doesn't have to like the Sonata."
Nope. And thank goodness. This forum (and the streets) would be a boring place if that were true. :surprise:
Accord is bland, yes, but still sleek with great details. I think Ford did a great job styling wise with Fusion and Milan--to my eyes, they are two of the most distinctive vehicles in this segment.
Camry is a bit polarizing, I guess...but the thing is, at least in Barcelona Red, people really NOTICE it. I'm not used to it. I didn't care for the front end but its growing on me. It does, however, have a great [non-permissible content removed]! The overall look is just very aggressive looking compared to a Sonata. I can totally see where that would turn some people off which is why I'm never really going to argue about styling.
Out of all three, my favorite was the Sonata. I thought the ride was the best. The seats were the most comfortable. Definitely had most power. I had wife and 2 kids in back seat (one kid in car seat). The 500 had most room, then Sonata, then the Maxx wife said she felt a little cramped. She's about 5'2" and 110 lbs. Neither Chevy or Ford (even with new warranty) can't beat Hyundai's. Wouldn't need extension for Sonata but the others...more cash out of my pocket and into theirs. Another thing I like about Sonata I like all safety features being standard. The other 2 I'd have to search for combo of desired options (like side curtain airbags) and desirable color. Why doesn't all manufacturers make curtain side airbags standard! Is their anyone who wouldn't want them?
Personally I like Sonata's styling. Has anyone seen the 2006 Sonata with body kit? Go to www.factorywings.com/Detail.bok?no=2496. Sorry don't know how to do that link thing.
My personal favorite part of the message. Music I can understand but enjoying my favorite photos on the road??? :P
So it really depends on you negotiate skill.
I didn't even catch that one. Must have been so off the wall that I wasn't expecting it and ignored the photo part. Unreal!
I was shocked to see how much OEM replacement 17" tires are for my Mazda6 (Michelin Pilot MXM4). After tax and all of the other labor fees I'm looking at $200+ each (unless I get them from tirerack.com and find someone to mount them cheap). They are pretty worn down at only 13,300 miles and will most likely need replaced before the lease is up next March. Fortunately the lease states that I can replace them with other brands as long as the rating and sizes are identical.
Just a question, isnt this new 4cyl that Chrysler is using, the same engine that was co-developed with hyundai, and mitsu. If so, how is it that hyundai can squeeze 34 highway mpg out of the engine, while chrysler only manages 31mpg. Is it tuned differently? a heavier vehicle? Very dissapointing for an 07 4cyl vehicle.
Responding and quoting to specific areas in someone's post is nothing new and happens in forums. There's nothing antagonistic about it. Helps the original poster see what exactly the other person is responding to. Reduces the likelihood of people attributing things to that person that that person did not really say.
When did I say your opinion doesn't count? I just don't agree with some of it. Doesn't mean that it doesn't count. Others may agree with you, and that's all good.
I'm not really "concerned" about any particular thing. I talk about the Camry, the Accord, the Sonata, the Altima and the Fusion. I say my piece, I stick to cars, I stick to the forum rules.
Just chill. These are cars we're talking about. No need to get all riled up and get personal about it. Let's get back to cars, whether it's in agreement or disagreement
Agreed on side airbags...I found one with them on our Maxx without much problem when I was buying, but if I couldn't I wouldn't have bought it.
Source is consumer reports on interior room.
2006 Malibu Maxx
LT SS LTZ
Standard Seating 5 5 5
Optional Seating No data No data No data
Front Headroom (in.) 39.40 39.40 39.40
Rear Headroom (in.) 39.40 39.40 39.40
Front Legroom (in.) 41.90 41.90 41.90
Rear Legroom (in.) 41.00 41.00 41.00
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 56.70 56.70 56.70
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 55.50 55.50 55.50
Front Hip Room (in.) 53.50 53.50 53.50
Rear Hip Room (in.) 52.40 52.40 52.40
2006 Sonata
Interior Dimensions
GL GLS LX
Standard Seating 5 5 5
Optional Seating No data No data No data
Front Headroom (in.) 40.10 40.10 40.10
Rear Headroom (in.) 38.20 38.20 38.20
Front Legroom (in.) 43.70 43.70 43.70
Rear Legroom (in.) 37.40 37.40 37.40
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 57.40 57.40 57.40
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 56.90 56.90 56.90
Front Hip Room (in.) 55.50 55.50 55.50
Rear Hip Room (in.) 55.30 55.30 55.30
(Note: I am talking to people who have had a post disappear this morning, not the poster just before me.