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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I think the only way we will see the Accord at an autoshow is in the form of a "Concept" Honda loves to do this.

    I think it will prolly be at NAIAS and be the Accord Coupe "Concept" similar to the Civic.

    I really wish they would release the next Accord early though (Maybe March or June of 07) but I don't see that happening.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    Isn't the Sonata a midsize sedan? I know how the Maxima, Passat and Avalon are similar externally and much bigger than the sonata. In fact, Edmunds rates the Avalon, Passat, Maxima, Azera, Sonata, and all as midsize sedans. Tsx (Rl, & Tl) too!! Jetta not quite so i see i did make a mistake.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    The accord i was referring to was the Euro accord aka our Acura Tsx. Thats likely to be shown in either the Tokyo, Paris or Geneva autoshow. Our accord is likely to be at the LA, NY, or Detroit autoshow. And released by spring of 2007.

    Sorry for that confusion :)

    ________________________________________________________________________________- - - _

    The jetta was brought up because someone was considering a camry hybrid or accord hybrid. I was saying the jetta TDI because of its nice interior, big trunk and good gas mileage. Its more of a highway car than city. Basically, diesels are for majority highway miles and hybrids are for city. Its trunk and MPG is good for long road trips as it has space for almost everything except for rear passengers. Its not a useless area like a 2+2 vehicle like say, a TT or SC430. Its a good car for a family of 2 to 4 to go traveling for a week and have room for luggage. Can't quite do that in an accord or camry hybrid...

    my point, need a good MPG vehicle with space, don't overlook the jetta TDI. IMO, Its about the biggest current compact, or smallest midsize vehicle. ;)

    -Cj :shades:
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    This is a very nicely done vehicle. But price vs value.. depends on your view of "value". Jetta comes with a 5cyl 150 HP engine. Size wise it fits well for a family of four. Did I mention I almost bought one? In fact, I had a Jetta pkg 1 all lined up on the internet with a Volkswagon dealership. I was going to pretty much buy it that weekend. Then I got a letter in the mail from Ford for 0% financing on any Ford vehicle. Punched numbers and figured I could get a loaded SEL V6 Fusion for the same payment as a Jetta Pkg 1. I still like the Jetta and would have one in my drive way right now, but the savings of almost $3K in interset alone, pushed me to the Ford... :shades: Cheers..
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    I got to drive a 4cylinder Altima rental for
    a day, and while I was very impressed with
    the pick-up that the car had, it was pretty
    noisy doing it and just not as silky smooth
    and as quiet as my '02 Maxima. Plus I really
    like that nice "growl" that the VQ-6cylinder
    engine makes when I punch the accelerator on
    the Max.
    I must say though that the Altima handled
    better than my Max. Started making me
    reconsider a V6 Altima. I can't wait to see
    the 2007 Altima in person! Uhmmmm.....
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    "Isn't the Sonata a midsize sedan? I know how the Maxima, Passat and Avalon are similar externally and much bigger than the sonata."

    sonata is bigger than both maxima and passat. sonata is a midsize sedan with a large sedan volume.
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    I looked at exterior and interior numbers of a number of cars. Is it the length that determines size? Mazda3, Civic, and Focus are all under 180 inches in length. The Accord is 191.1 inches long. The Altima is 192.3. The Sonata 188.9. So this means that under 180 inches is Compact and 180 and over is mid size.

    How about large sedans? The Ford Five Hundred, Dodge Charger, Buick Lucerne, and Chevy Impala are all over 200 inches in length. The Kia Amanti, Chrysler 300, and Toyota Avalon are above 195 inches. So is a large car considered 195 and over? What about the Maxima (193.5 in.) and the Azera (192.7 in.)? Aren't they comparable with large sedans? Why does Edmunds have the Maxima, Azera, and Avalon listed under mid size cars?

    But now the Government considers the Sonata a "large size" because of interior size, which is 105 cubic feet. Why hasn't Edmunds listed the Sonata under large? It's still under mid size. So are all the large cars listed above interiors over 105 cubic feet, including the Maxima and Azera? How about the Chevy Malibu Maxx which has an interior of 106 cubic ft. and a length of 187.8 inches, but Edmunds has it listed under mid size? :confuse: :confuse: :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I guess you can go by whatever you want :) .

    The government (EPA) goes by passenger compartment volume.

    IIHS goes by weight, because they are only looking at safety.

    Comparing dimensions such as length or wheelbase would be another thing that could be used

    I would tend to think usable passenger compartment space would be the most meaningful...volume is not always the best measure of that, but I don't know what is.

    I don't really care what classification a car is in. If I can set the front seat so that it is comfortable for me and then get in the back seat and have adequate space, it is a big enough car.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "Its a good car for a family of 2 to 4 to go traveling for a week and have room for luggage. Can't quite do that in an accord or camry hybrid..."

    I'm sure that 3rd or 4th person in the Jetta's cramped backseat will be real happy that there's room for their luggage.

    I would rather pack more lightly and sit in a roomier backseat for a week long trip myself.

    I know the new jetta is roomier than the previous model, but it's still not all that roomy for 6 footers in the back seat.

    Great road car for two adults and their two children though. Oh, maybe that's what you meant by a family of 2 to 4.
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    DEAR HOST,

    How does Edmunds.com determine the "size" of a car?
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Each person has to look at the numbers that are most important to them. If you are a tall guy, more leg room may be the big factor for you. If you are wide in the rear, hip room could be the big thing. And if you are short, you could actually want less leg room. This is why I would like to see these cars have adjustable pedals.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    But price vs value.. depends on your view of "value".

    Truer words couldn't have been written.

    What would the price difference be with a jetta 2.0t pkg 1 compared to your fusion then?

    For me, i would still prefer the jetta 2.0t over a fusion. Not knocking your car so much as i really dig the workmanship and driving feel of the jetta 2.0t.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,277
    Which Jetta is that a photo of? In (about March of) 2005, I drove a fully loaded new-model Jetta 2.5 (TDI and 2.0T weren't available). The chrome trim around the trunk sill wasn't chrome, it was black plastic--it reeked of cost-cutting, as the previous model had chrome there.

    Is this a 2.0T feature, or was it a mid-model correction for all Jettas?
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    i don't know the answer to your very good question but i noticed the same thing. other cost-cutting items i noticed on the new jetta was that the trunk itself was no longer lined with carpeting, the automatic shift gate panel is no longer chrome plated and there are no longer any side panel guards. but VW/Audi still sets the standard for interior materials.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I don't know, and I don't really think it's all that important, frankly - what's important is that you and everyone compare the cars you find interesting for whatever reason.

    I think you did a good job of creating a "class" of vehicles to be compared when you set up the Large Sedans for Under $30,000 Comparison discussion.

    If you want to pursue how the Edmunds editors classify cars, click on the "Help" link at the very bottom of the page and use the "Contact Us" form to ask. Let us know what you find out!
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    Go up in price range to that of an Accord EX, V6 with leather and you can get an Azera which offers adjustable pedals as an option.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    A Hyundai, I don't want them (adjustable pedals) that bad.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    can you make one for compact sedans like the cobalt, corolla, civic, jetta, sentra, mazda 3, focus, ect?

    -Cj :)
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    If a Hyundai doesn't meet your standards I guess you'll just have to wait until Honda gets around to offering the features you want.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    It wasn't so much the price difference, it was the not having to pay any interest on a depreciating item. I saved thousands over the life of the loan. The lowest VW had was %3.9. I was looking at a Jetta Pkg 1 in an automatic with splash guards. Lowest price I could get on the internet through dealers was about 22K. As far as workmanship goes, you may want to take another look at the Fusions interior.. its pretty well put together, tight and neat and clean...
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    That is the Jetta GLI which also has the
    2.0T engine. Only the GLI series gets the
    blacked-out front grill and also some
    interior differences from the Jetta 2.0, 2.5
    and TDI.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    lets face it, VW doesn't exactly have a stellar record for reliability..
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    A Hyundai, I don't want them (adjustable pedals) that bad.

    Well that remark will certainly be helpful to new car shoppers! ;)
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    you may want to take another look at the Fusions interior.. its pretty well put together, tight and neat and clean...

    And full of shiny plastic....ew.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    Well that remark will certainly be helpful to new car shoppers!

    Not sure why the Hyundaiers can't take someone else not liking their master. Or do you want anybody who ever comes across these forums to think that we all agree with the Hyundaiclub that pours it on here?
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    Don't forget about the Accordians! Don't say any thing about the Accord or you'll REALLY hurt someone's feelings! :cry::cry::cry::cry:
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Let's talk about the cars and not each other. Thanks.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Accordians! :D

    I was looking at the fueleconomy.gov classifications. Some cars that I would think of as midsize, they call compact based on their definition (which is based on passenger plus cargo volume). The Pontiac G6, Subaru Legacy, Jaguar X-type, and TSX are compact by EPA definition.

    Meanwhile Hyudai Elantra and Kia Spectra, which I would consider compacts, are midsize according to EPA classification.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Anything semi-derogatory that gets posted here gets removed anyway.....

    But I think there are SO many more Accordians out there that the number of potential posters that want to defend the Accord is high. And its hard to disparage an Accord.
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Member Posts: 116
    Don't know if this has been posted yet, but Toyota had the most recalls of any automaker for 2006 models.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/weekend/mostrecall_1.html
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "And its hard to disparage an Accord" Ya think? Hate to burst your bubble but go to Google and type Honda Accord problems or Honda problems... Yeeouch.... there are plenty of peeved of Accord owners out on the internet... ;)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    http://biz.yahoo.com/weekend/mostrecall_1.html

    This will just get swept under the carpet like most news about Toyota or Honda does.... thanks for the link though... I'll be happy to spread the word around the net in other car chat rooms.... Boy, if this were GM or Ford it would make headlines.. :shades:
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I am a proud Accordian. Since I bought my first Accord in 91 (92 Accord for 12 years, and an 03 Accord for 3 years). And I will continue to be an Accordian, until I get one that proves me wrong. Of course I don't see that happening. Reliability is a wonderful thing.

    I don't doubt that some people do have problems with their Accords. Many more (like myself) don't have many problems.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I'll be happy to spread the word around the net in other car chat rooms....

    Whatever floats your boat...I mean Fusion. I think I'll tell of my never-been-stranded 163,000 mile 11 year old Accord, or my granddad's 255,000 mile Civic wagon that he sold for $1,000 miles after 16 years of driving.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    Might as well post this link of GM recall:
    http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/10/Autos/gm_recall/index.htm
    http://gm-trucks.com/home/content/view/272/49/
    Do the math.
    How about Ford?
    http://www.automotive.com/new-cars/recalls/01/ford/
    Well last year GM I think had to recall 3 million vehicles for various reasons. Ford who doesnt want to be left behind, recalled 4 million vehicles about a defect on the cruise control that causes the vehicles to burst into flame.
    http://www.yourlawyer.com/articles/read/10872
    Ford fans should'nt worry. They still have 5 more months. Youll still be number one.
  • thesniperthesniper Member Posts: 44
    "Might as well post this link of GM recall:
    http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/10/Autos/gm_recall/index.htm
    http://gm-trucks.com/home/content/view/272/49/
    Do the math.
    How about Ford?
    http://www.automotive.com/new-cars/recalls/01/ford/
    Well last year GM I think had to recall 3 million vehicles for various reasons. Ford who doesnt want to be left behind, recalled 4 million vehicles about a defect on the cruise control that causes the vehicles to burst into flame.
    http://www.yourlawyer.com/articles/read/10872
    Ford fans should'nt worry. They still have 5 more months. Youll still be number one."

    Oh boy, you ruin his party too soon!
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    And its hard to disparage an Accord" Ya think? Hate to burst your bubble but go to Google and type Honda Accord problems or Honda problems... Yeeouch.... there are plenty of peeved of Accord owners out on the internet...

    The enormous volume of Accord owners would definitely play a role in having some owners post problems. Duh.

    I think its pretty well determined that the Accord has an impeccable and envious position in total overall satisfaction across the board with the millions of owners it has.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    I think its pretty well determined that the Accord has an impeccable and envious position in total overall satisfaction across the board with the millions of owners it has.

    True, but Accord doesn't have the market cornered on customer satisfaction. Every car in this segment has very good customer satisfaction. There is not much separation among all the midsized cars. Toyota will not let the recent spate of problems stand. They will be back better than ever in a year or 2.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    Never said Honda has cornered the customer satisfaction market, just that their reputation is strong.

    I agree that all cars these days seem to be built pretty darn good, and should last a long time if properly maintained.

    The recent Toyota issues will be a blip on the screen for them.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I'll be glad when it gets here...

    image
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "Boy, if this were GM or Ford it would make headlines"

    Toyota's recalls are making headlines. C'mon, stop it already with the selective memory. Nothing is being swept under the carpet.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Go figure. I saw it on the nightly news... I don't guess the news counts as a headline.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Whatever floats your boat...I mean Fusion. I think I'll tell of my never-been-stranded 163,000 mile 11 year old Accord, or my granddad's 255,000 mile Civic wagon that he sold for $1,000 miles after 16 years of driving. "

    Ah... the never ending stories of my Honda went a gazillion miles on 1 oil change stories... Tell these to my mother and father in law who are now on their third Taurus. Present one has 80,000, the other 2 went over 150,000 with no issues.. they sold them because they wanted to.. and they were running fine at sale... Also, my mother owns a 93 Escort with over 170,000 miles... Gee... I thought Fords weren't supposed to last.. :P Or how about my first truck, a 1969 Ford pickup with over 175,000 miles.. bought it for $500 and drove it to 225,000... sold it for $500... stories.. we all got'em..
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Thank you for stating what some of us are thinking at times. Some folks think only certain cars collect lots of good service miles.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Looks like a soft spot was hit here...

    Fact is Toyota constantly touts its reputation and relibality record in ever commercial. Now its in question.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "The enormous volume of Accord owners would definitely play a role in having some owners post problems. Duh."

    Wait a minute, I thought all Honda products, everyone of them were perfect down to the radio knob.. By this response I would guess you went to Google and typed in "Honda problems" or "Accord problems".... Sorry to have burst your bubble... :cry:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Wait a minute, I thought all Honda products, everyone of them were perfect down to the radio knob.

    Funny thing..out of all the posts I've ever read, yours are always the one talking about Hondas being perfect. Same was true in the CR-V forum. I've never hesitated to tell of a worn out master-cylinder in my 96, or about having the oil-filter problem in my dad's CR-V. I drive Honda, and like it. It doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to think they don't have problems. I wish people would quit insinuating that all owners feel their cars are "perfect", and i also wish people would quit telling lies of "no Honda dealers will deal on a car." You can only say that after dealing with EVERY dealer...and judging by the random sampling in the Prices Paid Accord forum, EVERY dealer is dealing on cars.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I think, judging by the number of Accords sold over the years, that most Accord owner's are like me. They have had very few problems, and are on their second, or third Accord. All it took for Honda to hook me, was 12 years of reliable service. It's the kind of car you get attached to. Only people who enjoy driving, would understand.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Gee... I thought Fords weren't supposed to last..

    And the sarcasm never ends...I never claimed Ford had bad reliability...my mom and dad had an 84 LTD for 6 years...it had two power locks go bad and an oil leak that never could get fixed...but for 1984, it wasn't a bad car. From the pics i've seen, it was a beautiful car too (Black with lots of chrome and wire wheels). Instead of knocking other cars, tell more of your own success stories (like you finally did in the post before this one)...it makes you sound much more credible and less like a mudslinging politician. Me posting a success story isn't a threat to you, nor was it intended as such! :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    They have had very few problems, and are on their second, or third Accord.

    We have had Accords as follows...1990, 92, 93, 96, 00, 01, 03, 05, 06. Needless to say, we have had few problems. Of the cars that did have a problem, they went as follows (I can't remember the 90 or 92, so will refer to the later ones)

    The 93 EX had a "pop" noise that came from the sunroof occasionally in its later years. We sold it in 2000 having never had a mechanical repair done to it. It got $6000 trade with 105,000 miles and two wrecks (minor damage in both).

    The 96 LX currently has 163,500 miles, and has cost $600-$650 in mechanical repairs (Brake Master Cylinder developed a slow leak, and the electric cooling fan motor died...both after 140,000 miles).

    The 00 LX and 01 LX were both flawless (The 01 replaced the totaled 00)

    The 03 EX got rear-ended and after, never got all the rattles worked out. It was traded on the 05 EX, which has only a creaky sunroof when going over curbs and speedbumps. Not flawless, but not drastic either.

    My 06 has had a rear-view mirror replacement based on an anomoly with the mirror (the mirror glass was never manufactured right, so it vibrated in the housing...replaced under warranty).

    Needless to say, we like Accords! (By the way, we've had numerous Civics, an Odyssey, and a CR-V)
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Grad. No worries. No need to try to refute the critic. Honda will be just fine.
This discussion has been closed.