Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

1103104106108109235

Comments

  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    I would if there was a big difference in gas mileage. According to Consumer Reports "real world" tests GLS V6 did 14 city and 30 highway. The 4 cyl tests produced 15 city and 33 highway.

    Also with current incentives, $2,500 for 6 cyls and $1,500 for 4cyls, not a big difference between the two. If you bought both at Invoice and subtracted rebates, a GLS V6 would cost $17,331 and a GLS 4cyl would cost $16,996, a difference of $335! These figures are with no options added. :shades:
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    All slushboxes grad. See the specs here.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Actually the specs from Chrysler state the Sebring's 3.5L V6 only produces 235 HP and 232 ft-lbs. See post 5513 for the official spec sheet as it stands now.

    Not a huge difference from what you stated but it's a difference in the wrong direction according to many around here. Not me though. ;)
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    You could also buy a GL Automatic or Manual trany.

    A GL Auto. at Invoice is $17,957 minus $1,500 rebate is $16,457, $874 less than GLS V6.

    A GL Man. at Invoice is $17,111 minus $1,500 rebate is $15,611, $1,720 less than GLS V6. You'd probably save more gas with manual. Don't know the "real world" figures.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    Chrysler state the Sebring's 3.5L V6 only produces 235 HP and 232 ft-lbs.

    another question about the new sebring. Will the 3.5L V6 be the same version serving duty in the 300 touring sedan, only downgraded in power, or is this a new generation 3.5L V6 ?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Will the 3.5L V6 be the same version serving duty in the 300 touring sedan, only downgraded in power, or is this a new generation 3.5L V6 ?

    The only difference I see between the two besides the power numbers is that they call the 3.5 in the 300 a "High output" engine. The Sebring's version has no such moniker and does not say anywhere that it is a "new" motor.

    Looks like the 300 pushes out 250 HP at 6400 RPM which is the same RPM the Sebring pushes out 235 HP. They have different peak torque RPMs though. 250@3,800 for the 300 and 232@4,000 for the Sebring. So some other minor differences seem to be present.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    thanks for the good info, chrysler would have been wise to drop in the the 3.5L as is from the 300, especially with the powerhouse V6's from the others in the class. Maybe there will be an SRT version in the works soon.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    take note on the above reviews on the vehicles?? Ford Fusion second highest amount of reviews (124) by actual owners, and holding strong at a 9.2!
    17" tires for Mazda.. , shop and shop. Find a couple of tire brands in your size/ratings. Then shop the net, shop the tire stores. Prices can vary widely by store. Make them bid against each other if you want. I have, they do, they will if they want your business. :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Thanks for the link. It's a shame they are still going with 4-speed autos in all but the limited model. Seems like they could ante-up a little extra for 5 or 6 speed autos in the name of economy. Ford has a 6-speed, Toyota has a 5-speed on its base engine, a 6-speed in the V-6. For the sake of economy, a tall 5th or 6th gear would do wonders for the economy of the Sebring.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Look, I'm sorry, but those numbers are so worthless and non scientific---the difference between a 9.2 and 8.8 or something is a couple disgruntled people who own the base version. It just doesn't give you much of an idea what is accurate.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Look, I'm sorry, but those numbers are so worthless and non scientific---the difference between a 9.2 and 8.8 or something is a couple disgruntled people who own the base version. It just doesn't give you much of an idea what is accurate.

    Maybe not worthless, but certainly trivial & anecdotal. What's accurate anyway? I know that sitting behind the wheel of an Accord EXV6 feels good. Is that being accurate? Or is that worthless?
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The sebring has the same four cylinder as the Sonata but has slightly more power and the Sebring is likely heavier as well. The engine is the same as the 300, but I have a feeling that rating is the new SAE certified number. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the 300/Charger get revised hp numbers for 2007. I dont think Chrysler has switched to SAE ratings for any of their vehicles. I always thought the 3.5 V6 was overrated in terms of power.
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Member Posts: 170
    I know that sitting behind the wheel of an Accord EXV6 feels good. Is that being accurate?

    Yes - that is accurate.
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    Toyota promises to raise vehicle quality. Automaker plagued with rise in vehicle recalls and legal probe

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13953387/

    Ford: Quality is Job #1 (4 or 5 years ago).
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Frankly, your personal impressions are just as important as some silly number up there. My point is that all the cars are bunched together very closely, to the point that just a few bad ratings coudl skew the results. Nobody should base absolutely ANYTHING on that. If you were to explain to somebody here exactly what your impressions of a particular car are, that's far more valuable then "hey, this car has a 9.1 and that car has a 8.9 so you should buy the car with a 9.1"
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    I agree.

    One person may rate "x" mpg very high while another person may rate it very low for example.
  • rhduke00rhduke00 Member Posts: 129
    I've owned a 2006 GLS I4 and now own the 2006 GLS V6. I enjoyed my I4 which was smooth and had all the power I ever needed. However, I traded it in after 8,000 miles for a V6 with very nice after market perforated leather. The I4 that I traded in was in excellent condition and the dealer re sold it within a week. With the I4, I averaged 25.5 MPG. With the V6, I get 24.4 MPG. I probably could have done better with the I4 MPG had I been as careful with my foot as I am now with the V6. With the I4 I would cruise the interstate at 80 with the V6 I cruise at 65 to save a little gas.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    With the I4 I would cruise the interstate at 80 with the V6 I cruise at 65 to save a little gas

    I don't get the logic here. Why did you get a V6? So you could drive slower, and get worse gas mileage??? There is something wrong with this picture.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Why did you get a V6? So you could drive slower, and get worse gas mileage??? There is something wrong with this picture.

    Let me guess: For the same reason millions of others prefer a V6?

    As much as I like good fuel economy, a V6 is much more desirable. Especially when the MPG penalty is only 1-2mpg.
  • bryan200kbryan200k Member Posts: 64
    For about 20 years now, I have been buying nothing but V6's because anything less didn't satisfy me. However, since I've been looking, shopping, comparing, test-driving, I've given in to considering a 4 cylinder. I've driven a couple I4's that did seem to have sufficient power, but I still do notice the different between the I4 and V6. I've driven an Accord I4 and Accord V6 back-to-back, and a Sonata I4 and Sonata V6 back-to-back. Both's I4's have good power and probably would be plenty for me, since I mostly drive highway and 90% of the time it is just me in the car. Having said that, I am planning on using my near-future purchase to be used as the primary family hauler (2 adults and 2 teenagers and 2 dogs), so that makes me think I had better go with a V6 for the extra boost in power, and "eat the cost" of the 1 or 2 or 3 lessor MPG's. Currently when we go somewhere as a family, we use the wife's 15 MPG SUV. Ugh... What's a fella to do. Told the wife that I've got to "weigh" all the factors and costs and decide whats best FOR US. If it was just me in the car, I would most likely go with the I4 trim. I feel the decision of I4 vs V6 is a personal matter, depending on each person's own situation, and likes, and willingness to "trade-this-for-that". I'm still on the fence. My purchase time is about 6 to 12 months out. My son starts driving in 11 months, and I'll need a third vehicle. I get the new car. He gets my 2000 Malibu.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I know that sitting behind the wheel of an Accord EXV6 feels good. Is that being accurate? Or is that worthless?


    Worthless? No way. To me, that's all you should ever need to buy a car. But I'm a big fan of automobiles and have kind of made learning about them, and driving them, one of my hobbies. Others may only want a vehicle to fill a need but could care less what it looks like or how it drives. Those folks need to gather all the info they can and use it as best then can IMO.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    It's a shame they are still going with 4-speed autos in all but the limited model.

    I thought that was pretty weak myself. They better hope former Sebring lovers flock to this thing (I won't even offend other cars in this class by calling it a car! :P ) or give it a low price because I don't see it doing very well with the educated consumer crowd. They certainly aren't going to get very many conquest buyers like the Fusion/Milan, and Sonata are either.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    The looks of the car is my first priority these days. All cars seem to be put together well anyway. I want to smile when I look at my ride. I'm stuck with it for a while. I can't imagine buying just 'transportation' at this stage of my life. I need the flair.

    Gotta have the nice V6. They get good gas mileage these days, and all the giddyup you'll ever need.

    And need the electronics too. Bluetooth Hands Free Link. Navi. XM. I like the LoPros too.

    Honda captures the high end of this comparo very well. Can't wait to see the 08 Accord.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    I am 99.9% certain that the accord will be at an autoshow thats between September 20- October 10. The dates are because i haven't memorized all the autoshows yet.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    I get the new car. He gets my 2000 Malibu.


    My dad got me an accord early. I'll be driving alone in approximately 3 months, 14days, 2 hours, 34 minutes and 36,35,34 secs. :P :shades: :):D

    -Cj :)
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    I get the new car. He gets my 2000 Malibu

    Did you try a jetta TDI? its trunk is HUGE (bigger than the Camcordtimanata6 at 16cu ft) and it can get about 700miles on a tank of gas highway. ;)

    -Cj :shades:
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    This is topical for me now- as I am looking to get out of my Volvo S-70 (non turbo, I-5). Am looking seriously at the Mazda 6, but debating I-4 vs V6 there. But the EPA ratings for that car are 24mpg for the I-4 vs 19mpg for the V6. If it was one mpg difference, that wouldn't matter, but 5mpg does. 90% of my driving is city/suburban and mostly it's just me in the car. Plus I really like the hatchback feature of the Mazda 6 Five door. Very versatile but still doesn't look like a station wagon.

    Advice/comments solicited.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    The whole point is to point out the Fusion is winning hearts with the public. I also at one point linked MSN auto into showing the Fusion as being the most appealing family sedan..
    Worthless to whom? These people bought a car, still like the car, chose the car over how many other choices out on the market? Owners opinions, reviews matter very much.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    What do you mean by "Ford Quality is Job #1"?? This is an article about Toyota lacking quality..???? Not Ford....??

    I also notice noone made comment to this issue. Toyota has issueshttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13953387/....

    This is one of only 2 articles I have read on the internet about Toyota stumbling. I have read nothing in my local paper, heard nothing on the news on TV or radio. When Ford was having issues.. it was plastered all over the internet, heard it on the radio multiple times and even made national news.. why isn't this issue with Toyota??
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I had a 2005 4 cylinder w/4 speed automatic Mazda6 as a loaner for about a week and power seemed adequate to me. Could have used a little more low end torque...but I can live without that. For 2006 this is upgraded to a 5 speed which made a big improvement, in that the rpms are much lower when cruising on the freeway. The 2006 is also much quieter.

    I have test driven the 2006 Mazda6 as well as Fusion and Milan with the same 4 cyl engine. To me there is plenty of power. The last test drive had me and my wife plus a fairly heavy salesman in the back seat of a Milan and the 4 cyl automatic still seemed fine. I have not driven a 6 cylinder for comparison, since the 4 seems acceptable to me.

    In the past I have only considered 4 cylinders adequate with manual transmissions. But the 4 cyliders these days seem to have plenty of power and with some cars you can get a 5 speed automatic...that was another reason I had gone for the manuals in the past, I liked having that 5th gear. Automatics now get about the same mpg as manuals. Because of all this I am planning to get a 4 cylinder automatic...but it has to be at least a 5 speed automatic.

    Having a more powerful car would just be more frustrating to me anyway, because of all the slow accelerating drivers around here. I think their cars never see over about 2500 rpm. Even when I drive my sons 91 nissan with a 1.6 L engine and automatic, I am usually the fastest one when the light turns green.

    My top choice is the Mazda6 also and I am considering going for the hatch as well.
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    That's what I thought. Back in December, my family (5 including 3 grown kids) rented a Toyota Camry in Florida- drove it for about 5 days and it performed adequately with all 5 of us plus luggage- and I was surprised when I popped the hood and saw it was the I-4. My 5 cylinder Volvo is rated 0-60 at 9.4 seconds and is more than enough (and I have the speeding tickets to prove it!), so if the Mazda 6 I-4 can match that, I'm sold on it. 160-170 HP for a mid-size sedan with a decent automatic transmission is fine for me. No manuals, too much stop and go driving around here.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    You should really consider the Toyota Camry Hybrid. It has a 2.4L I-4 augmented with a battery that produces 199 lbs/of torque. Total horsepower of the combined system is 189.

    The transition between the battery and engine is seamless, but the overall effect is to produce a car significantly faster than the "normal" 4 cyl. In testing, the 2007 Camry Hybrid is actually faster than the 2006 Camry V6.

    So, you get V6-equivalent power, but with the fuel economy of a small compact. EPA 40/38, in aggressive real world driving I'm at 34.8, though I'm near the very bottom of all the "real world" numbers at greenhybrid.com (but then they all probably don't floor it to 80 out of toll boths either).

    Really, you should at least take it for a drive. It comes standard with virtually everything, including bluetooth, a sophisticated stability control system, etc. Tough to tell pricing 6-12 months out...right now you are paying at or close to MSRP, $26k base), but there is a $2600 tax credit. The tax credit goes to $1300 in Sept. However, in 6 months, you'll probably do better pricing wise.

    With the tax credit and a sunroof package (optional), I paid $24...considering the level of content, performance and fuel economy, its actually a good value with Lexus-like quality and quietness.
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    I think you also consider the VW Jetta, Subaru Legacy 2.5i sedan, and the Hyundai Sonata GLS (4 cyl).
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    The VW Jetta, Subaru, and Hyundai Sonata were considered but I have read horror stories about the Jetta's maintenance issues, the Subaru for some reason looks a odd to me, and the Hyundai looks decent, but no hatchback and the nearest dealer is 15 miles away. The Mazda/Nissan dealer is about 1 mile from where I work. And if I have repair/maintenance issues during the warranty period, the "less hassle to get it fixed" is important to me.
  • bryan200kbryan200k Member Posts: 64
    Down to the second! I'm sure you are excited about driving. My son, Dustin, will be 16 next June, and then he'll get his permit, but then another 6 months before he's eligable to take his test to get his junior license so he can drive by himself. He is already looking ahead and excited. I like taking him along on my test drives. He is good at 'seeing things' that I don't. Also, he is probably thinking that he'll get a shot a driving whatever 'dear old dad' buys. He's already dictated to me that this next car needs a sunroof and needs some type of AUX port for his Ipod. Most of the time it is just me in the car (for my commutes to work), but he hangs with me a lot of the weekends. I'll most likely give him my 2000 Malibu to start with, but I plan on trading the BU in when it hits over 200,000, so he just might get this first car in a few years. So I guess he has a vested interest in 'making sure' that it a 'cool car'. He does like my BU because one of his older friends has one. "Shawn is cool, so it must be cool to drive a Malibu". "Ok son... if you say so."
  • bryan200kbryan200k Member Posts: 64
    I hadn't even considered the Jetta. I'll have to check that out. I'm trying to be open minded. I've got plenty of time to check out all options.
  • bryan200kbryan200k Member Posts: 64
    I did already consider the Camry Hybrid. I had driven the XLE a couple times, but couldn't drive (or even look at the hybrid) because everytime I stopped by the dealership, they didn't have any. They are selling them before they even get them in. However... last week I did happen to stop in and they had just gotten one delivered. There is a LOT that I like about the new Camry. Lots of content. Roomy. Good gas mileage. Last weekend I was thinking that the 07 Camry Hybrid was a strong contender on my list. UNTIL ... I saw the trunk of the Hybrid. The battery takes up valuable trunk space, IMO. Definitely a 'deal breaker' for me. I was actually disheartened. I had gotten myself excited about 'going Camry'. The salesman did say "they've got to put the technology somewhere" meaning that darned battery eating up the trunk space. Because of this factor, if I do 'go Camry', it will probably be the XLE V6. I usually take my teenage son (Dustin, age 15) with me when I look at cars. He provides a good sounding board and sometimes 'sees things' that I hadn't noticed. A few weeks ago, we drove in the same day, 06 Accord I4, 06 Accord V6 and 07 Camry XLE V6. Dustin really like the interior of the Camry of all the cars that we've looked at. Each car has it's merits. It's all in what is important to the buyer.

    Maybe I'll go back and take a drive of the Camry's I4. Guess one doesn't know the score until you actually drive it. Since I'm probably not going to buy for 6 to 12 months, I've got plenty of time to look and re-look.
    I may also wait awhile to see what Honda does with their new 08 Accord. Just trying to have an open mind and give them all a 'fair shake'.

    Hey... I might decide after all to go with the Camry Hybrid, when it's all said-n-done. We were planning on using this next car for taking family trips... and we pile LOTS of stuff in our trunk. We could always stick with using the wife's large SUV for trips. Decisions, decisions.

    Thanks for the suggestion. Hope you are enjoying your Camry.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    My 5 cylinder Volvo is rated 0-60 at 9.4 seconds and is more than enough

    I think the 4 cyl Mazda 6 has about the same 0-60 time as your Volvo. In march CR tested a Milan with the 2.3L I-4 engine and 5 speed ATX, it was at 9.5 sec.

    My acceleration criteria is about that also, based on other cars we have. I agree that is plenty fast enough, that is about what my wife's Jetta can do. My old Contour with 4 cylinder about matched that time or it might theoretically have been a little quicker, but only with the manual trasmission. Too much power in front drive cars can cause torque steer problems, anyway.

    I am only considering cars with at least a 5 speed automatic and, since I want a 4 cylinder, this really narrows down the list of moderately priced cars in a hurry.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    i'll be 16 and getting my actual license!! :shades: I've had my restricts(permits) for a year and will be 16 9-30 but have to wait to october 5 to take the test.

    My dad parents hate taking me on test drives. I once out witted a salesman. He offered me a job at the dealership. Turns out he was the manager!! i was just too young :cry::cry:. O well. My dad tells the salesman that i know all the facts (i kinda did but man that is kinda flattering). I once negotiated a nissan armada from $32k to $26k. I didn't even tell about the trade. I should work for edmunds... hint hint :P .

    -Cj :shades:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    It's been in every national journal I've read, NYT, WSJ, here, MSN, etc. I haven't heard any broadcast news in a while so I can't comment there. Otherwise it's been everywhere else I read.

    They are having issues, it's being noted. A lot will depend on how these are handled and what the result is. I have a Prius with the steering recall notice. On the next oil change I'll have it tended to and I expect that that will be the last I will hear of it.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Interesting...I think I remember reading your story now (who remembers usernames! Ha!)

    I am enjoying it so far. It "feels" so much quicker than my '04 Malibu Maxx, even though I would never have thought that was the case. Driving dynamics are great.

    Yes, the trunk stuff is essentially the only detriment to the Hybrid. Having shopped the Accord Hybrid, I can tell you that's got the same problem. Unlike the Accord, though, at least there is a 60/40 folding rear seat in the Camry--a bit of a surprise given the battery location. I haven't loaded up the Camry with suitcases and the like yet...when I do I'll let you know. For what I've used it (boxes and groceries), I actually like the way its contoured because stuff doesn't slide around.

    But I can understand that concern. I was fortunate because I was able to buy one off the lot for almost $1000 under MSRP that happened to be the color I wanted and optioned how I wanted it. So far, people haven't had those choices yet.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    I was going to reply to Scape2 with the very same observations you did.

    There seems to be a mentality out there among domestic car enthusiasts that the press is out to get the domestic industry.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    Ok edmunds specs are back. The jetta can get around 609 mpg highway and 522mpg city on a tank of gas (14.5 gallons). Thats more than the accord hybrid but less than the camry. The trunk is almost twice as big as the accords with 16 cu. ft without folding down the rear seats. :). With ULSD, very little diesel fumes emit. :)

    image

    -Cj :)
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Why are we talking about the Jetta here? Isn't the Jetta a small car? (Civic, Corolla size) The Passat is the mid-size car from VW. Hardly matters how big the trunk is, if the interior is too small.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    Actually the jetta is in a class of its own. Its bigger than a corolla and civic but smaller than the accord and camry and closer to the accord and camry. The passat moved up market and is with things like the maxima, 300, 500, ect.

    The inside of the jetta isn't all that small. Its dimensions are very close inside to the Acura Tsx. Edmunds did a road test comparing the two. The 2005.5 redesign is what made it bigger. Imo honda probably is introducing the civic SI sedan to get with the jetta GLI and Corolla XRS.

    to sum it up, vw moved the passat out of range of the accord and move the jetta in. So jetta and passat are both equally against the accord, camry, and sonata.

    image

    -Cj :shades:
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Well, that Jetta's trunk looks high, but not very wide and deep. To utilize all the volume, it looks like you would have to stack things 2 or 3 high.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    I can attest to the Jetta's trunk width not being very wide. your golf clubs will fit much easier in the accord or camry.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Look at the numbers on MSN Autos. The Jetta is much closer to the Civic than the Accord (interior space). The TSX is also smaller than the Accord.

    All 2006 models

    Examples: Accord Civic Jetta

    Fr. Head r 40.4 39.4 38.5

    Rear H R 38.5 37.4 37.2

    Fr. L R 42.6 42.2 41.2

    Rear L R 36.8 34.6 35.4

    Fr. Sh R 56.9 53.7 54.8

    Rear Sh R 56.1 52.4 53.1

    The Civic and Jetta are basicly the same size. The Accord has much more room (going by the numbers). The Civic actually has more head room, and leg room than the Jetta. The Jetta has more shoulder room and rear leg room. Basicly a wash. The Accord is much larger in every category (except maybe trunk space). The Jetta is not a mid-size car.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Actually, Jetta is not in a class of its own :)

    Size-wise (per EPA)

    Compact: Civic, Corolla, Jetta, Sentra, etc
    Midsize: Accord, Altima, Camry, Elantra, Passat, etc
    Large: Avalon, Azera, Maxima, Sonata, etc
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    "I am 99.9% certain that the accord will be at an autoshow thats between September 20- October 10. The dates are because i haven't memorized all the autoshows yet."

    I'd be very surprised to see the new Accord shown at Paris. Given how important the US market is to Honda, I'd estimate the earliest we could see the car is in LA (Nov.). And even if that's true, being unveiled in LA, automakers cannot start selling 08MY until after Jan 1, 2007 (and rarely automakers sell them so far in advance (e.g. Tahoe). I'd say 07 NAIAS, 07 NYIAS, or even thereafter are more realistic dates.
This discussion has been closed.