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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Apparently it was.
BTW - all my ownership experiences with Ford but one (a Mustang GT) were disappointing. Any domestic model in my family will be a Chevy.
last night. It looks like the car may be
totalled. A young college kid ran through a
stop sign and T-boned me on the right front
quarter-panel and pushed me into the oncoming
lane and causing me to veer off the road. I
ended up running into three four-foot cement
poles that were in front of a building causing
the front grill to basically wrap around the pole in like a V-shape; the hood buckled up and the windshield was all cracked. The engine cut out and I could only get the gear in neutral, couldn't even get the keys out of the ignition.
I've got a huge bruise on my left thigh, my
stomach and my fingers on my right hand were
cut up. The left hand is swollen in the knuckles and my forearm is swollen up too.
At first I didn't even know I was bleeding
until I saw some blood splatter on the seats.
Anyway, to make a long story short, I had hoped
to be able to start shopping for the 2007
Altima when it comes out this fall and it
was going to be near the end of my lease.
I probably won't be able to do that now if my
car ends up totalled.
I'm getting more sore as the day passes and I
got a prescription for a stronger form of Motrin. I hope it helps! I'm going to have
to take it easy and probably won't be able to
work the rest of the week. I miss my Max
so much. I'm renting a Hyundai Elantra under
my rental reimbursement agreement with my
insurance company. Oy!!! I don't think I'm
going to be motivated to drive very much with
this thing! (Sorry, Hyundai, don't mean to be
dissing!)
It looks like I will be stepping up my research
on the new cars that I'm interested in.
i would prefer to have a troublesome, but not too troublesome, accord over a reliable taurus. some cars are not desirable even when functioning properly.
my mother owns a 93 Escort with over 170,000 miles
this car wasn't even competitive when it was brand new.
car stories? more like horror stories.
Maybe, if money is the issue, should test drive a Sonata V6! It has 235 hp, only 20 ponies less! A GLS V6, with current incentives, out-the-door under $20,000. Or if you want a little more car, test drive an Azera that sports 263 hp, 8 more horses than 2007 Maxima! With current incentive, if your a good negotiator, can get an SE fully loaded for under $25,000.
Another cheaper option would be a 2006 Chevy Impala. Maybe the 3.5L engine with 211 hp might not be enough power for you. The 3.9L has 242 hp, only 13 ponies less than Maxima. With current incentives, I'm sure you could get a fully loaded LT with the 3.9L for an out-the-door price under $25,000.
Or if you want to stick with Nissan, an Altima with one or two options, with current incentives, you could purchase with an out-the-door under $25,000.
One positive note about all sedans above is they all run on regular gas, so you'll save alot that way!
Current rebates are 2006 Sonata GLS V6 and LX: $2,500.
2006 Azera: $1,000
2006 Impala: $2,000
2006 Maxima: $1,500
2006 Altima $1,750
Just try and get a jump on left over inventories and current incentives. My advice is buy between now and the 31st of July or last week in August. Dealer will be more desperate to get a last sale in for the month and more willing to negotiate. Good luck finding an alternative. Hope you feel better soon! Let me know what you decide.
My father was curious and went online looking for an Azera price quote. Try $22,800 for an SE (no options). Not bad, eh? What options are there?
When Hyundai decides to restate their HPs to SAE (like Honda does) then the horses will be more like 220.
No options is correct. Doubtful you'd find one stripped. The base model has no sunroof, has cloth interior....
Check the long list of standard features and you'll see many features that are optional on other cars (if available).
I have no interest in a Sonata, but if I did I'd drive the car...that will tell you more than these numbers on paper.
Composite Cargo Tray: MSRP-$90 Invoice-$62
Carpet Cargo Mat: MSRP-$90 Invoice-$69
Floor Mats: MSRP-$85 Invoice-$63
Sunroof Wind Deflector: MSRP-$85 Invoice-$54
Wheel Locks: MSRP-$40 Invoice-$33
One thing I like about Hyundai is that their options lists don't fall all the way to the floor like Toyota or Nissan. That way makes the price of the car very deceptive. They announce the vehicle starts at a certain price but add all options and the price comes out VERY different! :surprise:
Wrong. The right answer is 234.
____________________________________________________________________
That picture of the jetta's trunk, it was the GLI.
-Cj :shades:
The front of the Sonata reminds me of an old Soviet official's car.
Hyundai should redesign the car to make it look like something from this millenium.
Styling is a very subjective thing, and beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.
I'd prefer to think of myself as moderate (well, on this issue, anyway): I think the Sonata is a good overall package that represents a spectactular value. It is not class leading in anything other than value, but it is competitive in every area.
How's that?
I think the Sonata owners will still quibble with me, but perhaps so would the "haters."
The one other thing I'll cherry pick from the past couple days is advice to pursue an Impala as a cheaper option. As a big time GM owner, Impala was the very first car I shopped. I like the styling, thought the interior was a marked improvement over the past. Then I looked at an Accord. It beat the Impala in literally everything and didn't have any less real world room in it than the Impala. I had assume a substantial price advantage for the Impala. I was wrong. The Accord EX V6 was significantly cheaper than the Impala with leather, 3.9 engine, sunroof, dual climate, etc (LT3 or LTZ). I'm talking actual transaction price, not MSRP. For the money, I would have bought an Accord.
Of course, instead I changed direction, paid even less, and bought my Camry Hybrid.
Well apparently you do not value safety. What other car in this class offers as much safety equipment as standard equipment as the Sonata. None. Exactly. So not only is the Sonata class leading in value, but also in safety. It seems the Sonata is such a great car, the only thing people here seem to complain about is the styling. So to that i will say well done Hyundai.
I'm sorry, I was under the impression that stability control, the full complement of airbags, and abs were all standard on the Accord.
But if you really want class leading standard safety, my Camry Hybrid has everything in this class beat by adding a 7th knee/leg airbag, and most importantly, the most sophisticatedd stability control system in the midsize class called Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM). This is NOT the same system as on the rest of the Camry's and is only available on Lexus vehicles in the US. Brief description:
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/safety_presen/tech/33.html
Former ABS, TRC, VSC and electric power steering systems each functioned independently. The newly developed VDIM is unique in two ways: first, each system is integrated and seamlessly managed; second, control is actuated before the vehicle exceeds its movement threshold.
This assures a high degree of preventive safety and significantly improves upon ordinary driving performance in terms of “travelling, turning and stopping.”
Well stated. I'm moderate too, or as I like to say, a realist. The Sonata lacks a few bells and whistles the high-end Accord and Camry owners demand, but others don't.
I agree the Sonata isn't class-leading in any category in the mid-size segment. However, to re-state your observation just a bit, the Sonata is class-leading in almost every category in its price range of $16K-19K. And it's always about them money, isn't it? Trying to find a $17K car that's close to it in size, comfort, quiet, V6, warranty, roadside assistance, wishbone suspension, and safety is impossible. Usually, about all you can get for that price is a cramped little car with hubcaps, McPherson struts, and a 4cyl engine. Sonata makes mom cars affordable to nearly everyone.
Actually, Honda says that the 2006 model Accord engines were both bumped up by approx 10 hp based on the old standard (which would've put the I-4 at 170 hp and the V-6 at 250 hp), so technically, the old standard still made all their numbers drop, although by tiny amounts. Engine performance enhancements and the new test procedures ended up with 166 and 244 hp, while the old models would've been closer to 156 and 234 hp.
That is important, IMO, for most if not all purchases. People need to understand the definition of "value."
No - I don't think so. Its about the total perception of getting what you want and feeling good about it. If that costs you $20K, fine. If it costs you $24K, fine too.
Not everybody has to pinch pennies, even for a mid-size sedan.
I've owned both. My '84 Accord was a very reliable and pleasant appliance. My '90 Taurus SHO was also reliable, but it was a joy to drive, not a boring appliance like the Accord.
From my POV, the Accord is an excellent, but undesirable automobile. Different strokes...
I don't put these things as values , but luxurious features.
Yes it is not the fastest car though it has one heck of an engine, and it is not a sharp handler though it can handle suprisingly.
This car will keep on selling, especially now that the new santa fe has come out(literally destroys its competition) and with i don't know how many awards they have won already, hyundais perception of the public is definitely changing, helping with sales and especially image
I would think the current manual transmission Accord V6 would remind you of your beloved Taurus SHO.
Regardless of our opinions, consumers buy Accords mostly because of the car and when the Taurus sans the SHO was around it was predominately because of price.
Its posts like these that make me even dislike Honda products more than I already do. I don't find any Honda product desireable as you may put it. I find Honda's over priced, overrated, overdone, old news... I have owned one by the way. Didn't see what the perceived greatness was all about. The car was bland, had no character, no soul, no driving feel.. Heck! My wife even made the comment she wanted her old Ford Contour SE V6 5spd back!! because she like the way it drove and felt. This coming from a woman who knows nothing about cars... :surprise:
Fact is there is choice now on the market in the segment. Everyday I see people driving new cars other than Hondda's. So, are they all wrong? Nope, they chose what they felt most comfortable with and with what they liked.. Choice is nice... different is nice..
What? is this another asian HP scandal in the works?? where did you hear this?? :confuse:
No, many times that's not the case. The only way for many domestic mid-size sedans to move off the lot is for them to sell with heavy incentives. That's a good indication to me that price is a major selling point of the car.
Wouldn't you be driving a Jetta today if you didn't get such a great deal on your Fusion?
"It's posts like these that make me even dislike Honda products more than I already do."
I pretty much judge a car line on its merits. I'm not one to dislike a car line because someone disses a manufacturer of the car I drive. The last couple generations of the Ford Taurus weren't competitive with the Accord. Is that such a revelation?
"Fact is there is choice now on the market in the segment. Everyday I see people driving new cars other than Honda's. So, are they all wrong?"
There has always been choice and believe or not, people have always been driving new cars that are not Hondas.
But it seems all the consumer and enthusiast magazines that rate these overpriced, overrated Hondas so highly infuriates you to no end.
$25,118; Edmunds TMV: $25,289; current incentive: $750
Invoice fully loaded for a 2006 Chevy Impala LT 3.9L:
$25,817; Edmunds TMV: $26,606; current rebate: $2,000
Invoice fully loaded for a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid w/out Nav.:
$26,172; Edmunds TMV: $30,948; no current rebates or incentives
Could you tell me what options the Camry had? What were the exact purchase prices for the Accord, Impala, and Camry? Because even if you bought all 3 at invoice, with current incentives Camry would be $26,172, Accord would be $24,368, and Impala would be $23,817.
So what your basically saying is that you bought your Camry WAY under invoice, right? Are you including the tax incentive? If so, how much? I heard not everybody is eligible for the tax incentive, true or not?
EPA rates interior/luggage for Camry 101 cu ft/11 cu ft; Accord 103 cu ft/14 cu ft; Impala 105 cu ft/19 cu ft
I'll say this, you'll save a lot more on gas with the hybrid and would of saved a little more with the Accord over the Impala.
Hmm, I get it now. You don't like Hondas because someone else dislikes Fords. Now it all makes sense...wait...no, it really doesn't. HUH? Someone's opinion about Ford makes you dislike a product that's NOT a Ford?
It also infuriates most Honda enthusiasts or owners when you tell them their cars are overrated and overpriced.
Personally I don't like Honda's. I think they are bland, blah and boring. I too think they carry a high price tag for the things you get.
Hey, people have their own groove when it comes to cars. If people want to pay more for the Honda's let them. If someone can work a low price deal on a domestic, or they offer more incentives to buy.. who cares!!!!! There are many domestic cars that are reliable.
I disagree. Everone settles for less than perfect. You can always spend a few thousand more and get a better car than you have. Even Accord owners could spend $5K more and get an Accura, or $10K more and get... well, you know what I mean. The question is, where does it stop? In my case, it stopped where a lot more money would get me very little in return... $16,600. I'm happy with my car, feel good about my purchase, but I'm not ecstatic. There's always a better car for a "few more thousand". My point is that Accord or no other car is immune to this rule.
I had a purchase order for an Accord EX-V6 for $23900. Cheapest price I had found on an Impala LTZ was $24600, at the time anyway. I figured they were both about the same price if I had truly tried to hardball negotiate.
Edmunds TMV is ridiculous on the Camry. And the invoice is flat out wrong. The base MSRP of a Camry Hybrid is $26709 with an invoice of $24529. If you don't believe me, below is a link to Fitzmall in Maryland which is actually selling the car:
http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsa.asp?Search=NEW&Page=6&max=6&order=
2007 Toyota Camry
GAITHERSBURG
1-888-921-0300
Body: 4R LE Hybrid Color: Magnetic Gray Interior: Ash Gray Cloth Order #: 73015189*O
Delivered Internet Price: $26,029 Factory Invoice: $24,529
Delivered Value Price: $26,398 MSRP: $26,709
That's where I bought my car from. It had a sunroof package added to it. As I said, it does not have leather, unlike the Impala and the Accord. However, it does have standard features that those don't. For instance, its fully bluetooth enabled (even without nav) which works great. The JBL 440 watt 6 disc/mp3 system is superior to both of them, as is the stablity control system. The dual automatic climate control system has a steering wheel mounted control.
MSRP on my car was $27500, I paid about $26600 before the tax incentive. The tax incentive is $2600. In that regard its about like a rebate--not everybody qualifies. Your AMT status does come into play. I do qualify (most people do). So, I was looking at $24000 on the Camry Hybrid.
And yes, I'm saving a lot on gas. I drive 70 miles roundtrip every day and I drive aggresively. I'm averaging 34.5 mpg. On the same route with my Malibu Maxx, I averaged 21 mpg, and on my Intrigue (which I traded) 20. I have no reason to believe the Impala's gas mileage would have been any better than my Intrigue, and it might even have been worse. Same with the Accord.
In terms of space, all I can say is that I did not fit comfortably behind the wheel of the Accord, and I do with the Camry. That's entirely personal and subjective. With teh Accord, my knees were uncomfortably close to the steering wheel, unless I telescoped it very high, in which case I couldn't rest my arms on the armrest and still reach the wheel. On the Camry, I have no problem. The Impala was comfortable also.
Did your battery have the same charge level before and after the trip?
Most of the time I never pay attention to it. There is also an "Eco Drive Level" display that gives you your mpg average for the trip...when you turn the car off and your trip was above 35, it will flash "excellent!" on the display.
Basically what you are implying is no way can any domestic made vehicle ever sell based upon style or handling or content??? This is pure garbage
"Wouldn't you be driving a Jetta today if you didn't get such a great deal on your Fusion?" I have owned my Fusion for just over 2 months now. And a resounding YES !!. I am very glad I chose the Fusion over the Jetta. More power, more options, more room, more, more.. for the same $$ as a Jetta..
"But it seems all the consumer and enthusiast magazines that rate these overpriced, overrated Hondas so highly infuriates you to no end." It urks me yes, because they choose the easy choice. They want readers, they want buyers to buy what they write. Just pick the sedan that sells the most.. easy money....
Its all perception. Honda used to have the reliability end in the bag.. or they say they did anyway. But now with the internet and free information flies around.. Like I said. Honda's are not as perfect as these writers claim. The evidence is right out here on the good old internet.. :shades:
Let's try something different.
It's clear that everyone posting here has deep seated beliefs about vehicle preferences. Just as posters who have different views and priorities than you have are not going to convince you to change allegiances, you are not going to convince anyone else to do that, either. Doesn't that make sense?
So let's leave aside the beating each other about the head and try to help others decide what they want to purchase. After all, that IS what this website is about.
Tell us your most favorite thing about your vehicle of choice ... and in that same post also tell us one thing that you would like to be different.
Let's give up jumping on each other and give it a try. What do we have to lose?
Hey, sounds like a plan I once integrated on the CR-V forum.
I'll start...I wish that my Accord EX came with Vehicle Stability Control and that it wasn't only available on V6s. I LOVE the fact that I can roll down my windows from 75 feet away!
Like to be Different: Larger interior space.
Not to the same extent as the top Asian mid-size sedans. They command higher prices and higher resale value.
"It urks me yes, because they choose the easy choice. They want readers, they want buyers to buy what they write. Just pick the sedan that sells the most.. easy money...."
I don't have the mental skills to rebuttal that.
It comes down to this, you're really ticked that the Accord is highly regarded by those who follow and write about the auto industry. Take comfort that you're in the "know". Just repeat your true and tried mantra: they are overrated, overpriced, overhyped, and overdone. It's ALL perception with Honda.
I used to drive an 04 EX Accord V6.
Likes: engine, transmission, steering feel, seat comfort, ergonomics, tactile feel of the controls, how the gauges are illuminated, resale value, the suspension under most road conditions.
Dislikes: tail lights, paint chips away too easy from the front hood, everyone else has one, the middle panel on the top of the dash, a high end stereo isn't available, the suspension under certain road conditions.
Likes: Power, fit and finish, smoothness, handling, fuel economy, auto climate control, surrounded by airbags.
Dislikes: Road noise (on coarse pavement), Black color (very hard to maintain), could look more like the Acura TL (wasn't willing to pay $5,000 more for stylish TL look)
from Carspyshots.net
I like the new grille but those new alloys are killin my eyes!
I can't wait to see the new interior.
Not really. Why would we be infuriated by someone's personal opinion?
That's different then having consumer and enthusiast based auto magazines countering your viewpoint.