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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Probably an Accord LX-SE for about $19,000...the going rate.
If we bought only on past reputation image, no one would ever discover the next good buy. E.g., you would never buy that Civic, because it doesn't have a good reputation--it just came out as a 2007. And only the 2006 model had a reputation; the new model has NO reputation. Think about it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
To the original poster:
Actually, the Impala has a cleaner shape. The 2003 Accord has the pregnant look and copying the Impala's rear (laCrosse actually, IMHO) leaves the sides still looking bloated. The Camry also has the too large for my wheels look and the Avalon is obviously a Camry with more bloat.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just keep in mind that those scores were for a copy not equipped with side air bags and curtains which are an option for MY06. Ford is making them standard in the Fusion/Milan for MY07 and you can bet the crash scores will be a whole lot better with them.
The Mazda6 had similar scores for the side and they too are making all of the side bags and curtains standard for MY07. We have yet to see one of those tested with them too.
Me too, but it's just too small and rides too rough. What good is "quality" when you can hardly fit in the doggoned thing? Oh look at me! I'm riding in a quality car! Hey, someone help me out of this shoebox!
All kidding aside, the Civic is a great car if it fits you and your needs.
Congrats on the new car! What car did you buy and what was the negotiated price?
So say I bought a Sonata for the TMV: $17,694. Your saying I could buy a 2006 Honda Accord V6 for $600 more?
Yes I know that Consumer Reports has named the Accord 'Best All Around Family Sedan.' The trim that they give most points to is the hybrid. But they also wrote in the 'New Car Buying Guide' that your not really saving money on fuel because ,"hybrids are priced thousands of dollars higher than similar all-gas models." CR's, "calculations show that the Prius and Honda Civic are the only ones that will save you money by the end of five years and 75,000 miles of ownership."
My point is, why buy a hybrid if it's not going to save me money? I'm not doubting your knowledge on cars but CR has an Overall road-test that includes more than 50 different tests and evaluations that are performed on each vehicle. The Accord EX V6 scored 84/100, Accord EX 4 cyl scored 78/100, Ford Fusion SEL V6 and Mercury Milan Premier V6 both scored 77/100, Sonata GLS V6 scored 76/100.
What I get out of this info is the Accord is an excellent car but if I want a less expensive alternative it would be the Sonata. I choose the Sonata over Fusion/Milan because of better crash test scores from Gov. and IIHS. The Gov. tests Sonata scored perfectly and with IIHS rated Good-frontal, Acceptable-side, Good-rear. Accord Gov. scored only 4 stars with side front and rear. IIHS scored Accord Good-frontal, Good-side, Poor-rear.
J.D.Power ratings for both Accord and Sonata were very similar. Surprizing to me the Fusion was an Awardee, Accord and Sonata were not.
What I'm saying, if I wanted to buy a good 4 door sedan with a V6 engine and wanted to save a little money (don't believe I could get Accord V6 for $600 more), after looking at the experts opinions, the Sonata would be my choice. I might add the only opinion above that accepts advertising is JDPower, which might sway an opinion to hold back a little.
Lastly, I agree on what you said about these cars holding values but like I've said before I hold my cars for over 5 years so it's not important to me.
I think the current issue of CR now has the Accord EX V6 as the top trim level.
My point is, why buy a hybrid if it's not going to save me money? I'm not doubting your knowledge on cars but CR has an Overall road-test that includes more than 50 different tests and evaluations that are performed on each vehicle. The Accord EX V6 scored 84/100, Accord EX 4 cyl scored 78/100, Ford Fusion SEL V6 and Mercury Milan Premier V6 both scored 77/100, Sonata GLS V6 scored 76/100.
A couple of key points:
The Camry hybrid wasn't even out yet when CR published it's annual review, thus it wasn't included.
One should never buy a hybrid in order to save money. It is much better to buy a Certified Used vehicle in the same class. Both will last the same 10-15 yrs of driving and the Certified vehicle will cost thousands less. One should buy a new hybrid if the features, driving, comfort, etc. appeal to you.
The Camry hybrid is about the same price ( or even lower ) than a comparable gas-only version; e.g. a loaded V6 Camry with Navi is $31500 while the loaded TCH is $30600.
What if...... in the next generations of some vehicles the hybrid versions were the base model and the gas only versions were the more expensive upscale model? Now there's an interesting concept.
I'm referring to the overall road test scores too. The Accord EX V6 was among a group of sedans tested in the CURRENT issue of CR. The Accord EX V6 is now the highest rated mid-size sedan according to them.
Now that Accord V6 models have stability control standard is perhaps why it moved up in their scoring. I was sure the new Camry (2 models were also part of the group) would take the top spot.
#1--Consumer Reports, among others, has reported that the in their opinion, an Accord or Camry 4 cyl are superior to many model's V6. This is not neccesarily the case for the Sonata, but it is for the Malibu, G6, etc. The Accord 4 cyl can be had for anywhere from $16500-$22500 depending on the features, and the sweet spot for a well equipped sedan has dipped into the 18s so its certainly competiting with V6's.
#2--You are using old scores from the annual CR review. Those are out the window now that they've tested and retested a slew of these sedans.
#3--Hybrids depend on the situation. I would argue strongly that the Camry Hybrid, at least until September, WILL save you money. Its equipped just short of the XLE trim level, with tons of upgrades over the LE. There is a $2600 tax CREDIT on this vehicle which more than eats up the price difference between the normal Camry equppied the same as the hybrid. Thus, the actual cost of my particular Camry Hybrid with an optional sunroof is just under $24k, which, if anything, is cheaper than a Camry with the same features (bluetooth, VDIM (well, that's not even offered on normal Camry's, etc etc). Plus, I'm seeing about a 10 mpg improvement.
#4--I keep my cars over 5 years too. Why don't you check out the resale on a 2001 Accord/Camry against a 2001 Sonata or Malibu/Impala/Mazda 6/Galant, etc. If you want, even check out a 1998 or so. There will still be a multi-thousand gap. It doesn't disappear when the cars get older.
It depends on the buyer as well. Some people do not qualify for the tax credit.
Also, there is MSRP, and then there is actual selling price. The Camry Hybrid in my area is still going for MSRP. Non-hybrid Camrys can be generally had for about $600 over invoice.
The Sonata being thousands less, means you keep more in a CD or say stocks, while paying less up front. In five years time the several thousand has added another couple of thousand, if handled correctly. Pretty sure the resale will be a bit better looking forward, but still may considerably less than say an Accord due to deeper discounting and too much fleet sales. Hyundai needs to find a price and stick to it. But, when talking $3K to $5K price difference, if it truly is that much you would win with the Hyundai over time. One you keep more in your bank of money, and two great warranty, as in bumper to bumper for the five year period.
So it boils down to what is the right car for you, rather than the simple math involved.
As to i4 vs V6, if we were talking a rough American i4, it would be unanimous for the V6. If you need the extra MPG, then a great i4 Japan engine should do the trick. Keep in mind the V6, domestic and foreign are getting pretty good numbers now-a-days. Actually, I got good freeway mileage with my older GM v6 cars.
For power, the V6 in Sonata, Altima, Camry, Accord, and well all these new cars is great. Consider when a couple hundred ponies was considered plenty horses for a Pony Car. A 2004 Stang has 260HP, though more torque. Even the 233HP of a Sonata is impressive. And bought under $20K is amazing, consider the worthless dollar these days.
-Loren
You can get a new 2006 nissan altima 2.5s thats very well equipped for $20,100 msrp(automatic and even less for a manual) but since its the last year for this model, a lot less!
Also a new 2007 Saturn AURA xe with a 3.5l V6 for $19945 msrp and it well equipped and a brand new model!
A chevrolet malibu LT with a v6 for $19865 msrp and less since its the last year for this model, less than invoice.
Pretty much all the midsize sedans being mentioned in this forum for less than 20k.
I had a Pontiac Grand Am. NEVER AGAIN, PONTIAC! :lemon:
The Pontiac grand am was nick named the Bland Dam because of all the squeaks, rattles and plastics over the entire cabin, even in 2005. It has been replaced by a fantabulous car called the g6 (with a saturn twin called aura). Those two cars are very high rated and deserved to be checked out! The malibu, yup its in never-neverland. The g6 and Aura have the biggest sunroof in the class (on g6 v6s only)
and the power from the 3.6l(3.9 has been dropped for 2007 for a 3.6) is right up there with camry! The ride is sporty, soft and compliant and is nothing like the grand am with the clumsy steering, (re)tired v6, and jj givaway interior. The g6 is absolutely nothing like the grand am. Did i mention the g6 is the only vehicle to offer a convertible (hard top at that) out of all these vehicles being mentioned. Its a bargain and should be checked out.
Does it look anything like that Bland Dam you had? I don't think so.
Can we stop
I'm certainly not as biased as you may think, my other car is a Malibu Maxx as I've said. It has the GM 3.5 V6 which is fine and gets fairly decent gas mileage on the highway. City mileage is pretty rough. However, I have little doubt that the Camry Hybrid 4 cyl is faster than the GM V6. I don't think that's true for the standard Toyota 4 cyl, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Accord 4 cyl at least equaled it.
I've really never seen much positive written about it. Certainly not CR or the auto mags. I like the style and design of the Aura, but I'm at a point now that I need GM to prove to me that their vehicles will hold up since mine haven't. I liked them all when they were new, and my Intrigue in particular was a good looking, well designed car that ended up falling apart rather quickly. Our Malibu Maxx is sadly going down the same path.
The G6 is cramped, the 3.5 V6 in that car and the Aura is coarse and noisy and not particularly efficient given its size and the plastics in the interior are better than in the past but still not in the same league as Accord and Camry. The 3.6 V6 is a great engine, but you're going to have pay a major premium to get it...just like on the LaCrosse.
The frontal was "Acceptable" due to some intrusion at the foot which I wouldn't worry about too much myself. The rest of the frontal categories were scored "Good".
What car in this thread received an acceptable rear score to you? Seems to me that you'll only consider those with a "G" all around so I guess you'll be riding a bike because all of these cars have their weaknesses. :P Accord got a "P" for the rear, Camry got an "M" for the rear, Sonata did get a "G" for the rear but got an "A" for the side WITH side bags and curtains.
If the Fusion gets a "G" for the side when it's tested again with the new standard bags and curtains I don't see how you can say it's any worse than the competition based on crash test scores. I myself look at the scores to make sure the vehicle I'm buying doesn't have all "M" or "P" ratings but I don't let them weigh too heavily to be honest. As long as the safety stuff I want is there I feel my family is safe.
-Loren
--end quote--
Hey, that is clever little animation, with the soap box and all.
Are you saying to ignore your ad?
In the case of, " gets to late " the to is actually spelled too.
-Loren
The new hot spots are
1) side impact tests
2) whiplash minimization
Both of these are being done by the IIHS themselves until the manufacturers all come up to standard. The previous generations of all makes did poorly on the rear testing because it was brand new last year. The previous generations all were designed in the late 90's. Expect the new generations of all vehicles, beginning with the Sonata and the '07 Camry, to get 'Good' on this test when it's eventually done by the IIHS.
The '06 Ford Five Hundred already has this technology implemented. The Fusion for some reason doesn't have it. They decided to give the better technology only to the uppper scale model?
In the Saturn Aura, The 3.6l v6 comes standard in the XR. The msrp for the XR is $23,945. Not much of a premium to me.
You get alot more in the XR than the Xe anyways so i'd recommend the XR. In the XR you get a 6 Speed Shiftable Automatic (versus a plain 4 for the XE) with paddles on the steering wheel, 252 hp and 251 lb ft of torque, automatic climate control (1zone), heated driver/passenger mirror, variable intermittent wipers, a 240watt stereo, Onstar, stability control, power adjustable petals*, tilt and telescopic steering wheel and audio/cruise control on the steering wheel all standard!!
All for $24k?! :P Thats no premium to me!!
* optional
2007 Sonata Limited V6 (60,000 miles/5 years warranty + 100,000 miles/10 years) ~ $19,000
2007 Sonata GLS I4 (60,000 miles/5 years warranty + 100,000 miles/10 years) ~ $17,000
2003 Accord EX I4 with 40,000 – 50,000 miles (Zero warranty) ~ $19,000
2004 Camry LE I4 with 40,000 – 50,000 miles (Zero warranty) ~ $18,000
Car buyers will realize this soon. Can Accord and Camry hold the same resale value as today in three years under a flood of high quality and high value Sonata?
And some buyers are spending under $25K for Camry's, Accord's, F/M/Z's and Impala's. Everyone seems satisfied.
This is good.
A brand new Accord V6 will go for $21,000-$22,000 (LXV6 includes VSA, 6CD, Power Seat, Moonroof, 244hp engine, remote windows, alarm, etc...). A top of the line EX-V6 can easily be had for $24,000 now, usually less. Check out the forums. It's for real.
Here is one of many examples:
#11937 of 11979 EX-V6 in NY/NJ area - best prices? by gonein60sec Jul 08, 2006 (12:14 pm)
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The lowest quotes I got from NY/NJ dealers on the 2006 Accord EX-V6 so far are $23,618 w/o Navi and $25,232 w/ Navi. Can I do better than this in this region?
You guys relly seem to think that Accord Camry and Sonata are at
It is not that serious!! People Chillax!
The 2007 Camry got a "Marginal" on the rear crash test. Well the Camry does not use active head restraints.
link title
I believe the Sonata received a "Good" rating with active head restraints.
I can almost assume the 2008 Accord will receive a good rating--judging by the scores the new Civic received (also equipped with active head restraints)
Didn't see a single Hyundai dressed up. Tons of Civics & Integras. A bunch of 10 year old Impalas with 22s and spinners. Some cool Hummers (a pimped H3 my personal fav). No Kias.
Couldn't say but I'm guessing it's a matter of swapping the head rest for the most part. Should be easy to fix for the future if they decide to.
I too think the IIHS is trying to "force" all manufacturers to adopt something similar to Volvo's WHIPS system which is a good thing in the long run. It's a little premature to shy away from a model right now simply because it's rear crash score is poor. Most are, like you said.
I think that's identical to the Sonata's "Active Head Restraint".
It is the same concept, if not identical in execution.
I'd reverse that if I were you.
I wouldn't say that they can easily be had for $24,000. They can easily be had for under invoice but not easily for $24,000 or under. Sure it can and has happened but it isn't easy (at least not in my area).
Ok, its comments like these that really make me laugh. Expecially, after I had to humilate a guy in his new Accord EX the other day in my Fusion SEL V6. He was actually trying to race me!?? Please.. stop making these comments. There is no way, no how, an Accord EX 4cyl, either in 5spd or automatic form is going to beat a Fusion SEL V6.. Stop filling peoples heads with nonsense.
To the guy on I-205.. sorry I deflated your ego by the way....
Reference, Feb. 03 and Dec 05 issues.
Even though its probably a good thing you didnt come across a Sonata, Camry, Accord, Altima, G6 GTP with their V6 engines, its still nice that you can beat a 4, eh?
~alpha
Not sure why you are so slow to believe that Honda's aren't as expensive as you want to claim they are(CRV forum ring a bell?). It happens. Accords are not sticker, they arent even at invoice now. Approximately $500-$1,000 below invoice would be about what the prices paid forum seems to be representing. I'm not sure how you can just write them off as untrue, or basically, calling me a liar ("a joke").
Read it for yourself...people in the South (Alabama), Heartland (Texas, Oklahoma), Northeast (NY, NJ), and Pacific West (Los Angeles) are getting such prices. I just read of an EXV6 with $4,000 off of MSRP. Here is the post.
Well, after doing much reading on the site i finally made my puchase today. Prob. didnt break any closing speed records (was there 5 hours w/ preg. wife). We decided on the V6 when they agreed to 4000 off MSRP, and they came close to what we wanted on trade in.
Graphite Pearl with Grey Leather Int.
Wheel Locks
Mud Guards Tried to charge me 189 for these and i had to have them waive that.
MSPR: 27300
Sale: -4000
Dest. and Handeling: 550
Processing(BS): 189
Total: 24039 Went for 24050
It's post number 11,877, since you won't believe it probably. Accords don't cost a fortune, and come with a ton of features for $24,000.
Not sure why your region is different, but perhaps it is. Many more places have reported such discounts, those just came from one page of my reading in the Accord prices paid forum.