Here's hoping it gets a little better. Just made the first fill-up and the magic number was just under 26 mpg. I would say that miles driven during this period were approximately 75/25 - highway/city.
Just picked mine up and drove 3.5 hours home on the highway and long country roads. Have not filled the tank (fuel gauge says 1/2 full - starting froma full tank), but the internal mpg gauges says 20.6 mpg. I am a bit sad with that number, but knew going in that the mpg was not the main reason I bought this car. Will update with a better idea after a few tanks.
I have about 1800 miles now on my 400h. My last fill I go 28.8 mpg, almost all highway miles. I'm easily getting 27/31 highway/city that was advertised. Could not be happier.
This may be premature 120 miles, mixed city/highway. 25.5 to 26.0 Better with longer drive times, watched it go from 25.2 on short runs of 4 - 6 miles to over 26. .2 with longer drive even on highway. Car is two days old.
I'm only getting 19.4 MPG and I'm not very happy about it. I know it's because my commute is only 1.5 miles, but I was expecting to get much closer to the sticker (31). Mid 20s would be respectable.
Questions: Does the MPG increase when the battery is fully charged? - It appears to on the Energy screen. More green arrows. It seems like a strange questions, but is it possible that you can get better MPG if you accelerate and decelerate quickly in the city? If not, is there an optimal braking technique to increase the charge in the battery?
It seems that there is a warm-up period of about 3-5 minutes before my 400h starts getting the advertised mileage. Your commute is probably too short to see much of an increase in MPG. On your first trip longer than 15 minutes, you should see that average go up considerably. As for braking, I find smooth starts and stops work best. Try to leave a nice space between you and the car in front when possible to limit the amount of breaking needed. Hope that helps...
Okay, here we go...lots of info from me since I've got over 3500 miles on my 400h and have done various tests so far. I'm a software tester by profession, so I try to be specific and note things of interest.
1. For my first tank of gas I babied the cr*p out of it and got almost 29 average for the whole tank. (DON'T BROWSE THIS MESSAGE AND STOP HERE!!) That was keeping the highway top speed to 65mph and using a feather touch on the gas pedal. My trips around town took me all over the Baltimore beltway from one side of town (Elkridge) to the other (Carney). Not very much 'city' driving at all, though some instances where traffic on the beltway really slowed down. Keep in mind that was April...and the temperatures were still on the cool side, so no air conditioner was in use.
2. Second tank I babied it still, but on the highway I tended to go up towards 70 mph top speed and did an occassional sprint past people on the highways (man it's TRULY got pickup in that regard). Average mpg for me dropped down to about 27-28.
3. Began to drive more aggressively over the next few tanks and the weather began heating up (so the air conditioner now is running full time) and my average has dropped to about 25-26.
It's imperative to note that... 1. They test on level roads...NO hills!!! (that affects both city and highway without a doubt) 2. Their city driving was based on an average speed of 20mph (The 400h excels at that speed and frequently runs long jaunts just on battery alone (Depending on how light you press on the accelerator). So that's how the 400h obtained a city average of 31. 3. The highway testing never exceeds 60 mph. (Seems to jive with what I was seeing when I was babying my highway driving speed around 65)
Conclusion It's all in how you drive it, the speeds you drive, and the terrain. Is it worth babying the cr*p out of it just to get near 29 average mpg? I can't say for sure. Is it much more enjoyable to throttle it every now and then and pass someone easily that thinks you don't stand a chance? Of course! I can't vouch for the RX-330 and what I'd be getting in MY daily drives with one of them. I can only speak of what I observe with my 400h. I wish I had just one week to drive the 330 and do a comparison.
Email me if you have any comments or questions. link title
Currently my 400h is getting checked out because my front brakes squeal like banshees when I apply them while backing out of my garage in the morning. I mean they are LOUD squeals! :P
I now have 1500 miles on my 400h and I am only getting about 22 mpg average. Doing a lot of higway miles and driving it at 75 mph. It has also been very hot around hear in June. I live in Chapel Hill. NC which, as the name implies, is hilly. I have never see anything approaching 30mpg city, and the best I have seen on the highway is about 26, if I baby it. I had an RX 300 AWD before this one, and it got 16 city and 20-21 hwy. I have driven several RX330s. The FWD version gets 18 mpg city and about 22 hwy. If I had it to do over, I would never get the hybrid. What the hybrid system gives you is more power without a mileage penalty. It is not an economy car! Basically, its a gimmick!
1200 miles in 3 ½ weeks, probably 60/40 - highway/city, some long freeway trips, some short city trips, rolling slopes and very infrequent use of AC: 28.2 mpg. We started out at 25+ mpg right out of the dealership and took some long freeway trips initially. We’ve hit 30+ mpg driving strictly city. We noticed that our manually calculated mpg is about 0.2 miles less than the computer’s calculation. Our salesperson told us if we wanted to save money but not hurt the car, we shouldn’t use cheap A--- gas but Costco cheap gas is okay. The acceleration is fantastic! Needless to say, we are very pleased.
:surprise: 675 miles...first tank @ 24 mpg and the second slightly better at 24.5 .half city and half two lane Oregon coast highways..no freeway travel yet.,..hard to believe that one can get near 30 except in town driving.great acceleration yet feels like an electric bus when slowing down .. amazing technology to be sure..seamless interplay between the electric and gas motors..quiet..initially felt heavy and ponderous but that has faded..very comfortable. no regrets even if the mileage is less than stellar.
"our salesperson told us if we wanted to save money but not hurt the car, we shouldn’t use cheap A--- gas but Costco cheap gas is okay."
Cheap Gas - don't do it, use one of the major brands that have detergent gasoline. Texaco, Shell, Exxon/Mobil, Chevron.
You will pay for that cheaper gas later on, and the engine needs to stay clean to be efficient. I have found that Toyota's in particular need the cleaning fuels, and for a hybrid, having the engine at top efficiency is important, expecially since the engine stops and starts so frequently in traffic.
Thanks for the tip on gas. We'll certainly keep this in mind with our new car with the different technology that we've been used to driving. We just sold our '83 Supra for $100 to our mechanic who coveted this car for years. The engine was still in great condition after 250k miles. We had to sell it because the fuel injector was starting to leak all that cheap A--- gasoline. We didn't want to have a fire. He said the cost to fix it (and other problems that were starting to show up) could be several times more than the value of the Supra .We sure like the huge improvement in fuel economy with the 400h. We won't be filling up as often so we just may use the better, more expensive stuff.
I test drove a 400h today for about 30 minutes and about 17 miles. The drive was about half freeway at about 60-65mph and half suburban street driving at 20-40mph. This was in the Bellevue-Kirkland area of Washington state, in 70 degree sunny weather without using the A/C. I reset the average mpg at the start of the drive, and ended up with a 29.1mpg average! I would guess that my 2005 AWD RX 330 would not have done any better than 18-20mpg over that same drive. I was quite impressed!
One has to be careful of the displays; the only true test of MPG is the good 'ole "fill it all the way up and divide the miles driven by the gallons used" method. The gauges can be deceptive in the short term.
After 775 miles I am averaging just over 29 mpg. 85% highway and 15% city. Air conditioner was off 80% of the time. I tend to use cruise control whenever it is safe to do so and my maximum speed has been 60 mph.
The first two tanks were premium and the last 87 octane and I have not noticed any difference in mileage or performance.
In a couple of weeks I will be leaving on a 2,000 mile road trip that will take me from sea level to a high of 7,500 feet. I generally set my cruise control for the posted speed limit so I will be cruising at 60-70 mph with short higher speeds while passing. I will report back after the trip.
on my new RX 400h, I am on my second tank of gas, now at 300 miles total so this is not enough time to really know what my mpg will be. Note: I filled up early. However, so far, it is about 26 mpg in flat, hot Florida, with very short city trips with A/C running. I expect better in more favorable circumstances.
I'm getting 22mpg too for city driving. Supposedly, an engineer from Lexus corporate came out to look at my car and said there was nothing unusual about my low gas mileage!! Ah, but they would note my account. Anyway, I'm pretty annoyed as well. . .anything we can do?
I just turned 1,000 miles and on my 3rd tank am averaging 27.7 mpg (80% Freeway and 20% city). I use cruise control whenever it is safe and generally set it at the posted speed limit (60 mph so far). I was averaging 28+ on my previous tank, but this time I have more short trips that are a killer on mileage. Unless I drove to and from, uphill both ways, I do not understand mpg in the 22+ range.
I will soon be leaving on a 2,000 mile road trip which should give me a better idea of the highway mpg. I will be driving at sea level, over mountain passes as high as 7,000 feet and speed limits from 55-70 mph.
I will report back with my findings. I will be writing down the navigation system's mpg as well as dividing the miles driven divided my the gallons used. I plan to reset the navigation system at each fill up.
I too am very unhappy with mileage. Lexus Corp. has called me and I told them as well as dealer car was bought from. Took delivery on April 20, almost first day they came out. Now have 3400 miles, burn Costco gas, air on all the time, 120 miles since last fill up, car shows 19.8 mpg. Live in Palm Desert, CA. where it gets HOT in summer, past week average close to 106. Not sure if "special" gas we must burn in Calif. is cause but so far no answers. Last car was 2002 RX300, always got between 18/19mpg this time of year. Car before 02 was 1999 RX300, able to get 17/18mpg.
What to do, what to do? I don't want to be told if I can afford to buy 400h I should be able to buy gas at any price. This is what friends tell me.
Last car was 2002 RX300, always got between 18/19mpg this time of year.
If you are driving the same way that you drove your RX300 and not getting a good improvement in mileage, I believe you have a legitimate complaint. This being your 3rd Lexus in 6 years I would think they would listen to your complaints and try to resolve the problem. I disagree with the notion that the only way to get good mileage with a hybrid is to drive like an old lady. If you are of a mind to do that, it is not a bad thing. Yours is a good comparison in the fact that you are going from the non-hybrid to the hybrid version of a vehicle. If it does not improve your mileage by at least 25% I would consider the vehicle a failure. If you bought it to have a V6 that performs like a V8 then I suppose you should be happy. Maybe they will trade the RX400h for a 2005 RX330 and give you the 10 grand difference back. If they want to keep you as a Lexus customer that would be the way to do it.
" If it does not improve your mileage by at least 25% I would consider the vehicle a failure. "
If you drive the 400 like the 330, you are not going to get very good mileage. The HSD offers the opportunity for somewhat better mileage if one is very careful when driving, to get the most MPG out of the system. Otherwise, that ICE kicks in and what you get is better acceleration and performance, but not very good MPG. If you want better MPG, take a look at the techniques used by the "hypermilers" who get such great MPG from the small hybrids.
If you don't want to drive the "high MPG" way, that is fine. Just enjoy your higher performance vehicle!
There's lots of posts by people who say 'do this and do that' to improve your mileage. while I have no problem with adjusting your driving to play to the strengths of a hybrid car, some of these techniques could apply to a gas car (no jack rabbit starts, anticipate stops, try to coast, keep the speed under 70 mph, etc..) So I have no doubt that if you employ these techniques with a hybrid, you'll see improvements to your mileage. But what if you employ these habits with a conventional gas car? would you see similar improvements in mileage?
I think if you "drive" the same way with your hybrid as you did with your gas car, you should see an improvement and i agree that if you don't, that's a failure in some sence. There's nothing wrong with 'maximizing' your MPG by applying some of these hybrid driving techniques, but you shouldn't have to solely rely on them to see gains in fuel economy. (this is not to say if you redline your gas car and redline your hybrid car, you should still see an improvement)
pdpapa was getting 18/19 mpg with his rx330- that sounds like "normal" driving to me. If he was a lead foot, I would suspect that number would be much lower. So I really think the dealer who sold him the car should figure out if there's something wrong with the car, or just something "wrong" with the way he drives. (let him drive a demo rx400h for a couple of days and see what kind of mileage he gets on another car)
"So I have no doubt that if you employ these techniques with a hybrid, you'll see improvements to your mileage. But what if you employ these habits with a conventional gas car? would you see similar improvements in mileage?"
Yes, absolutely. My CR-V went from 18 MPG (OK, I was really flooring it) to 22 MPG in town. The highway mileage hasn't varied.
I agree that even with normal driving you will get better mileage with a hybrid - that same driving style with a 330 would probably net him aroung 18 MPG. So 23 MPG is a good 30% or so (forgive the math) improvement. But lots of people buy the hybrid SUV thinking it will give the mileage of the smaller Prius. This will not happen, and it is grossly unfair to compare a heavy SUV hybrid MPG with a lighter, aerodynamic car such as the Prius.
I agree that even with normal driving you will get better mileage with a hybrid - that same driving style with a 330 would probably net him around 18 MPG. So 23 MPG is a good 30% or so (forgive the math) improvement.
He may not have complained if he was getting 23 MPG from the RX400h. He is getting 19.8 MPG only a mile or two per gallon better than his RX300. You should be able to drive the two exactly the same and the hybrid should get significantly better mileage. If not it is less than a good upgrade. Not worth the big bucks.
I am on my third tank with the second and third tanks averaging 26 to 27mph while driving with an eye to gradual increases and decreases in speed. One night i drove agressively as i was late and it only cost me .5 mph. Seattle has had a cool summer and i rarely have used the ac. Also short trips with a cold engine are murder on mph with this car. I think those with a hybrid should not expect great mileage if they are not willing to learn the best way to use it. The first thing my lexus salesman told me as we sat in the 400h before even taking off was, if i drove alot on the freeway i could get almost as good mileage from an rx330 and save the ten grand. I appreciated his honesty and drove both cars. The handling and power of the 400h and the possiblilty of good mileage depending on how i drove sold me. So far its been fun.
I have had my hybrid for over a month and have 1300 miles on it. I traded in my 2004 RX330 for it. My wife and I always got over 21 mpg on the old one. We had hoped to better that by at least 25 %, but find we are only getting slightly more than 23 mpg on the new car with all city driving. Frankly we are very disappointed. I took the car in and they put it on the computer and said everything checks out OK. (not surprised) The first few tanks were better than the 23 mpg, but the gas mileage keeps dropping like a stone. Not a great endorsement for the technology.
I forgot to ask what type of gas (premium or regular) people are using. I had always used regular in the 330 with great results and had been told it doesn't matter in the hybrid. It is interesting that I started with regular and switched to premium, but got much better mileage with the regular.
Of the 2300 miles that I have put on my vehicle I have averaged between 25/30 city and 24/27 highway. It seems that the driver is the one who determines the gas mileage! It seems my husband and son get lower mpg as the jack rabbit start and tend to acellerate when they could just use the electric to it's potential
I'm a moderately aggressive driver, and tended to average 20 mpg or a bit under on my former RX 300 despite a fair amount of travel on local roads at 45 mph which is good for mileage. With the RX 400h, I just did 26.5 on my first tank, with similar or slightly worse conditions (did more 75 mph freeway driving on this tank than I usually do). I could see how I could baby it and get up towards 30 when I'm not on the highway as much, but will settle for what looks like 26-28 mpg which still makes me pretty happy for a vehicle with this performance, safety, and versatility.
I wish you luck. My wife and I baby the car to death. We do no jack-rabbit starting or anything else to adversely affect the mpg and still get only 23 mpg. We did get over 26 originally, but it has dropped precipitously since then. The dealer says it is the hot weather here in Phoenix, but somehow I doubt it. I sure hope he is right and I look forward to a spectaacular improvement come November when the a/c is no longer on full time.
You might try various combinations of moderate acceleration. Your "babying" may be causing the ICE to work harder. Are you checking your running MPG to verify your driving habits?
I was noticing my driving today, and I think that my 'moderately aggressive' style may actually improve my mileage with this car. I have lots of traffic lights on my drive, and I accelerate quickly away from them and get up to speed. I often then find that I am coasting for stretches between lights, with ICE off. Someone with a more tentative foot on the accelerator would end up having the ICE on more of the time. So it may be that you can (within reason) have your cake and eat it too -- enjoy the power & get good mileage. Keeping an eye on what's up ahead matters a lot, as with any car. Not only is it important for safety (and maneuvering into better position!), it helps me know when to take my foot off the throttle, enjoy the fast coasting, and ready for my next stop.
I traded in my 330 for the 400 and drove to the cape to sêe the shuttle launch. The first round trip of 250miles with 90+% hwy resulted in about 24.8mpg. The 330 would have done aroun 22mpg in this same 95+F weather.
Thanks so much for the advice of trading in at Lexus dealer to save tax money. We traded 330 in at near $34k, and ended up paying only $900+ in taxes. CarMax offered $32k while we would have to pay $2.5k in taxes. Folks, that's a $6k swing.
Love the quick passing capability of it!!!!
Disappointed in the phonebơk download capability of my i605 phone which sends only one phone number at a time, after a series of button pushes. Tedious!
At the end of June I had accumulated 1,000 miles of mixed city/highway driving on my on month old RX400h. I was now ready to begin my approximately 2,000 mile road trip that would take me from sea level to mountain passes as high as 7,500 feet.
The following are some of the parameters that I used in how I drove on this trip: I decided to drive my 400h just like I drove my RX300 on several past trips over the same route. I generally set my cruise control at the posted speed limits when road conditions and traffic permit. I used 87 octane gasoline (Chevron, Shell, Union 76, or Texaco). I fueled up when needed, or when a major change in terrain was about to occur. I will report the mileage in two ways (actual calculated mpg/navigation system mpg).
On July 1, my wife and I headed south on I-405 from Bellevue, Washington. We both had two pieces of luggage and two carry on bags that would all be allowed as carry on luggage for airline travel. It was a cool morning as we picked up I-5 south at Renton and I had the A/C off. The road to the I-205 cutoff just north of Vancouver, Washington is relatively flat with some gentle rolling terrain. The traffic was light so I had the cruise control set a 60 mph until we reached Olympia where I raised it to 70 mph. By the time I reached Tacoma my mpg read 28.4. When I raised my cruise control to 70 mph my mpg read 28.6. When I reached the I-205 bypass, my mileage had dropped to 27.6. When I rejoined I-5 with my cruise control set at 60 mph, my mpg had increased to 28.3.The highway the rest of the way to Salem, Oregon was flat and level with a 65 mph speed limit. For this leg I turned the A/C on. We stopped for lunch in Salem with the mpg reading 28.5. We continued on and when we reached Roseburg we began elevation changes from sea level to 450 feet through gentle rolling terrain. At this point I stopped for gas after 363.2 miles on this 1st tank. The mpg was 27.06/28.20.
We continued on for 15 miles to Canyonville, Oregon where we stopped for the night. We left Canyonville at 6:30 AM on July 2nd. This leg took us over foothills that reached 900 plus feet and then over the Siskiyou pass at 4,310 feet and then down in to California, climbing again to Weed, California at an elevation of 3,466 feet where we stopped for gas. Coming up the pass I encountered slow moving trucks (45 mph) in the two left lanes. The car effortlessly accelerated to 70 plus mph which was noticeably quicker than in my RX300. This leg of the trip, with the A/C off, was for 145.2 miles with the mpg reading 25.04/25.20.
We continued south on I-5 until we picked up Highway 89 east bound just south of Mt. Shasta. The drive from there (89 to 44 to 36) to Susanville, California (119 miles) is one of my favorites with elevation changes from 4,500 to 5,500 feet. South of Susanville we drove on Highway 395 through Reno, Nevada which has an elevation of 4,490 feet. The terrain and altitude did not seem to have any effect on the performance of the car. The outside temperature had passed 80 degrees and I once again turned on the A/C. South of Carson City we turned west on highway 50 for the climb over Spooner Summit at 7,146 feet and then down to the beautiful Lake Tahoe (6,260 feet) where we stayed until July 6th. On July 5th we took a side trip to Gardnerville, Nevada which took us over another 7,500 foot pass. I filled up the tank here after 324.0 miles and a mpg reading of 28.19/28.20. Considering the elevation changes, I was a little surprised at the mpg.
We once again returned to Lake Tahoe for one more night before heading for Novato, California on July 6th. With A/C on we headed west on Highway 50 over Echo Summit (elevation 7,382 feet). From there it was back down to sea level at Sacramento and then on to Novato over mostly level terrain. Just east of Placerville my mpg reached 31.4 and peaked several miles later at 35.2. We stopped overnight at Novato where we picked up my father-in-law for the trip back home. This added one additional passenger and one more piece of luggage to the gross vehicle weight. Since he can't take air-conditioning (one makes accommodations for 88 year old father-in-laws), we traveled the rest of the way without the A/C running. We stopped for lunch in Redding, California with the temperature at 97 degrees; not a pleasant driving experience inside of the car. I fulled up here after 393.5 miles (14.99 gallons) with a mpg of 26.25/28.10.
We continued on to Roseburg where we stopped for the night. This leg took us past Lake Shasta, then up to Mt. Shasta, and again over the Siskiyou mountain pass. I decided to fuel up here and get my car washed. My mpg was 25.98/25.80.
The next day we had a leisurely drive into Gresham. Oregon where we spent a couple of days visiting our granddaughter. After a few in town miles I filled the tank with a mpg of 27.1/28.3.
The final 195 miles back home took just under three hours. I fueled up in Bellevue with the final leg giving me 28.41/29.80.
The total trip was 1,954 miles and used 72.429 gallons of gas. My average mpg for the trip was 26.98/27.66. The total miles on my odometer now reached 3,030.
I loved my 2003 RX300, but my 400h is quieter, has more power, gets better mileage (4-5 mpg highway), and is a lot of fun to drive. I like the firmer steering and noticed no pull either left or right throughout the trip. The mark Levinson audio system performed admirably as we listened to a 15 CD audio book, CDs from classical to soft rock, my ipod mini, and Tom Brokaw's "The Greatest Generation" on tape. The navigation system is improved with several new screens and the rear seat cup holder and storage compartment was appreciated.
To quote Willie Nelson, we "Can't Wait To Get On The Road Again."
Overall 21-23 with 75% city driving. Lots of short 5-10 mile hops in hot, hot, hot temperatures (A/C blowing). Straight highway about 25-27. Extended in city driving 10-30 mile trips average 26 or so (with A/C).
Took possession on 7/1/05 and just completed 1,044 miles. Mpg for this distance is 22.0. This is nowhere near what others are reporting.
The driving profile is mostly suburban driving with some interstate travel. AC is on maintaining 76 degrees in 80 to 99 degree weather.
First 5 minutes of fuel consumption is always low ranging form about 7mpg to about 16-18 mpg. Second 5 minute interval is usually 20-22 mpg. Subsequent 5 minute intervals usually 22-24 mpg.
Aside from this fuel consumption performance I love the car. It is an engineers dream. Can't wait to transfer my old plates to the 440h. These plates sum up the 400h performance. "ZIPPIN."
Has anyone changed their driving style to get high gas mileage? I have tried religiously to get more then 24 mpg. I get the same mileage whether or not the AC is on, city or highway, fast or slow. My car has been inspected by Lexus and is "performing fine." The service techs in New Jersey have been informed by Lexus that the 400h won't get the mileage stated on the sticker. I was told 24 mpg sounds right. Any insight?
Anyone out there looking to purchase a 400h watch out. I typically love buying a new car, but this one has been a nightmare. Living in New Jersey, driving in various conditions, I have not seen anywhere close to the estimate 27/31 mpg. Having over 3,500 miles on mine, the best reported mileage is 24.4 mpg, worst 22.4. The Lexus service technicians have been informed that the cars will not get the stated gas mileage on the sticker. I was told my 24 mpg was "good" and I shouldn't expect any more then that. Funny how the CEO of Toyota reported in the NY Times that the car gets closer to 30 mpg. After test driving the car I was told all of the clicks and jerks the transmission and engine makes will go away after the car breaks in. That is far from the truth. I had an experience in a parking lot when I had my foot on the brake, in Drive, when the gas engine kicked in and the car lurched forward. I was no more then two inches from hitting the car in front of me. An experience i was not prepared for. My local dealer has run tests on the vehicle and it is performing "fine." I contacted Lexus customer service and they told me the car was fine and they were standing behind the dealer and that they are the normal traits of this type of vehicle. I highly suggest you test drive one before you buy. I have friends that get the same gas mileage, faster acceleration, and superior customer service from BMW. Did Lexus forgo the Passionate Pursuit of Perfection in favor of a marketing scam or am I expecting to much out of a $50K SUV?
I live in NJ, too and I believe the weather has been a major deterrent of good mileage. As I leave the house at 95 degrees and humid and drive 1-2 miles I've watched the mileage be disappointing, too. However, when you drive longer you can, even in NJ, get much better mileage. I've noticed that the car doesn't get great mileage in major traffic jams of 100 degrees either. I'm just looking forward to more moderate weather and longer drives. Concomitantly, my son is driving my RX300 and it is getting 13 mpg at the same time, so realistically, what do you expect? I haven't been back to the dealer for gas mileage.
My 400h is 900miles and averages 28.5mpg (since last fill-up) in mix driving plus AC on at 81F in 95F weather. I bet it would be far better than 29mpg in more ideal weather.
Your experience about the car lurched forward when your foot on the brake is not consistent with the program in the car computer and the basic design of the hybrid system. Fact 1: Continuously variable Xmission does not lurches forward like a regular auto-Xmission when its badly tuned engine turns on in this fashion. Fact 2: when your foot is on the brake, engine does not start up, unless you depleted your battery. And even if it is on, it would not have been coupled with the xmission. Fact 3: "Lurch:ing" is caused by unexpected torque created when engine start-up occurs inefficiently through sudden high rev, typically experienced in a badly tuned regular combustion engine. The Hybrid system's combustion engine (ICE) is a far better engine than a regular combustion engine because the control computer knows the exact position of every piston in the engine by knowing the exact angle of the crank shaft, to 0.1degree or better (out of a full 360degree revolution). Such position sensing accuracy is a requirement for an ICE to mate with hybrid system, partly TO PREVENT UNEXPECTED TORQUE that can damage the continuouly variable xmission, partly to have the ICE start up in an efficient and precise manner to limit pollution.
I can assure you that my experience with the 400h is not a bad dream as I regret my purchase more every day. I have driven my 400h in weather ranging from 50 to 100 degree with no difference. I drove it 1000 miles to Canada and back and got 24.8 mpg round trip.
Not sure where you got your "facts" from, but according to Lexus the engine can start at any point in time when the cars needs it, even when your foot is on the break. In my case the battery was @ 6 bars. Lexus customer service reports that when the AC is running, the added torque to run the secondary alternator motor can cause this lurch. Although your theories may be correct, they are not coconsistentith what Lexus reports. Do you want to trade cars?
I'm sorry that you are having problems with your car. I'm a very happy owner of a 400h (so far). I have 5000 miles on mine and my mileage has ranged from 24-28 mpg on 90% freeway driving. Your mileage is only about 2 per gallon under the highway estimate and I think you would find it hard for any car to get what is on the EPA estimate. I have seen my mileage increase as I get more familiar with how to drive the hybrid as well as from breaking in of the engine. There is one thing that concerns me, and that is the car moving, even with the break on. If your foot is on the break, there is no reason why your car should have moved forward, engine starting or not. You are correct that the engine can start, even if the battery is fully charged because of the temp it needs to keep the catalytic converter, but still the car should not move if the break is on. I would have it checked again, maybe at a different dealer.
I now have 3800 miles on my 400h and have not experienced any of the problems you have.
I just completed a road trip that included crossing 4 mountain passes in excess of 7000 feet as well as fairly level stretches at sea level to 400 feet and I averaged 26.9 mpg. On a recent run from Portland to Seattle I got 28.5 mpg. I haven't had occasion to run mainly city driving, but am confident that the EPA highway mileage of 27 mpg is low for my 400h.
Around my home I generally drive 90% highway and 10% city and have been consistently been avenging between 27-28.5 mpg using 87 octane fuel. I met another 400h owner who says he gets approximately 2 mpg better when he used 92 octane. I haven't tried that test yet. I generally run with the AC in the auto mode.
There are two stages to the 400h breaks. When pressing hard on the brakes the graphic should not show any transfer of power either to or from the battery.
I have previously owned two RX300s and this car is far superior in performance and mileage.
Comments
Does anyone else have figures they can share.
Thanks.
see the after about 35 miles average is about 26 mpg.
This may be premature 120 miles, mixed city/highway. 25.5 to 26.0
Better with longer drive times, watched it go from 25.2 on short runs of 4 - 6 miles
to over 26. .2 with longer drive even on highway. Car is two days old.
L
Questions:
Does the MPG increase when the battery is fully charged?
- It appears to on the Energy screen. More green arrows.
It seems like a strange questions, but is it possible that you can get better MPG if you accelerate and decelerate quickly in the city? If not, is there an optimal braking technique to increase the charge in the battery?
I drove one for the first time today and got 32mpg on a 30 mile commute.
2/3 highway, 1/3 city driving.
77 degrees and muggy.
Not bad.
The longer drive certainly helps offset the warm up period.
1. For my first tank of gas I babied the cr*p out of it and got almost 29 average for the whole tank. (DON'T BROWSE THIS MESSAGE AND STOP HERE!!) That was keeping the highway top speed to 65mph and using a feather touch on the gas pedal. My trips around town took me all over the Baltimore beltway from one side of town (Elkridge) to the other (Carney). Not very much 'city' driving at all, though some instances where traffic on the beltway really slowed down. Keep in mind that was April...and the temperatures were still on the cool side, so no air conditioner was in use.
2. Second tank I babied it still, but on the highway I tended to go up towards 70 mph top speed and did an occassional sprint past people on the highways (man it's TRULY got pickup in that regard). Average mpg for me dropped down to about 27-28.
3. Began to drive more aggressively over the next few tanks and the weather began heating up (so the air conditioner now is running full time) and my average has dropped to about 25-26.
Important Things to Note:
Read up on the EPA how they do their testing for mpg estimates..
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml
It's imperative to note that...
1. They test on level roads...NO hills!!! (that affects both city and highway without a doubt)
2. Their city driving was based on an average speed of 20mph (The 400h excels at that speed and frequently runs long jaunts just on battery alone (Depending on how light you press on the accelerator). So that's how the 400h obtained a city average of 31.
3. The highway testing never exceeds 60 mph. (Seems to jive with what I was seeing when I was babying my highway driving speed around 65)
Conclusion
It's all in how you drive it, the speeds you drive, and the terrain. Is it worth babying the cr*p out of it just to get near 29 average mpg? I can't say for sure. Is it much more enjoyable to throttle it every now and then and pass someone easily that thinks you don't stand a chance? Of course! I can't vouch for the RX-330 and what I'd be getting in MY daily drives with one of them. I can only speak of what I observe with my 400h. I wish I had just one week to drive the 330 and do a comparison.
Email me if you have any comments or questions.
link title
Currently my 400h is getting checked out because my front brakes squeal like banshees when I apply them while backing out of my garage in the morning. I mean they are LOUD squeals! :P
Cheap Gas - don't do it, use one of the major brands that have detergent gasoline. Texaco, Shell, Exxon/Mobil, Chevron.
You will pay for that cheaper gas later on, and the engine needs to stay clean to be efficient. I have found that Toyota's in particular need the cleaning fuels, and for a hybrid, having the engine at top efficiency is important, expecially since the engine stops and starts so frequently in traffic.
The first two tanks were premium and the last 87 octane and I have not noticed any difference in mileage or performance.
In a couple of weeks I will be leaving on a 2,000 mile road trip that will take me from sea level to a high of 7,500 feet. I generally set my cruise control for the posted speed limit so I will be cruising at 60-70 mph with short higher speeds while passing. I will report back after the trip.
However, so far, it is about 26 mpg in flat, hot Florida, with very short city trips with A/C running. I expect better in more favorable circumstances.
I will soon be leaving on a 2,000 mile road trip which should give me a better idea of the highway mpg. I will be driving at sea level, over mountain passes as high as 7,000 feet and speed limits from 55-70 mph.
I will report back with my findings. I will be writing down the navigation system's mpg as well as dividing the miles driven divided my the gallons used. I plan to reset the navigation system at each fill up.
What to do, what to do? I don't want to be told if I can afford to buy 400h I should be able to buy gas at any price. This is what friends tell me.
If you are driving the same way that you drove your RX300 and not getting a good improvement in mileage, I believe you have a legitimate complaint. This being your 3rd Lexus in 6 years I would think they would listen to your complaints and try to resolve the problem. I disagree with the notion that the only way to get good mileage with a hybrid is to drive like an old lady. If you are of a mind to do that, it is not a bad thing. Yours is a good comparison in the fact that you are going from the non-hybrid to the hybrid version of a vehicle. If it does not improve your mileage by at least 25% I would consider the vehicle a failure. If you bought it to have a V6 that performs like a V8 then I suppose you should be happy. Maybe they will trade the RX400h for a 2005 RX330 and give you the 10 grand difference back. If they want to keep you as a Lexus customer that would be the way to do it.
If you drive the 400 like the 330, you are not going to get very good mileage. The HSD offers the opportunity for somewhat better mileage if one is very careful when driving, to get the most MPG out of the system. Otherwise, that ICE kicks in and what you get is better acceleration and performance, but not very good MPG. If you want better MPG, take a look at the techniques used by the "hypermilers" who get such great MPG from the small hybrids.
If you don't want to drive the "high MPG" way, that is fine. Just enjoy your higher performance vehicle!
I think if you "drive" the same way with your hybrid as you did with your gas car, you should see an improvement and i agree that if you don't, that's a failure in some sence. There's nothing wrong with 'maximizing' your MPG by applying some of these hybrid driving techniques, but you shouldn't have to solely rely on them to see gains in fuel economy. (this is not to say if you redline your gas car and redline your hybrid car, you should still see an improvement)
pdpapa was getting 18/19 mpg with his rx330- that sounds like "normal" driving to me. If he was a lead foot, I would suspect that number would be much lower. So I really think the dealer who sold him the car should figure out if there's something wrong with the car, or just something "wrong" with the way he drives. (let him drive a demo rx400h for a couple of days and see what kind of mileage he gets on another car)
Yes, absolutely. My CR-V went from 18 MPG (OK, I was really flooring it) to 22 MPG in town. The highway mileage hasn't varied.
I agree that even with normal driving you will get better mileage with a hybrid - that same driving style with a 330 would probably net him aroung 18 MPG. So 23 MPG is a good 30% or so (forgive the math) improvement. But lots of people buy the hybrid SUV thinking it will give the mileage of the smaller Prius. This will not happen, and it is grossly unfair to compare a heavy SUV hybrid MPG with a lighter, aerodynamic car such as the Prius.
He may not have complained if he was getting 23 MPG from the RX400h. He is getting 19.8 MPG only a mile or two per gallon better than his RX300. You should be able to drive the two exactly the same and the hybrid should get significantly better mileage. If not it is less than a good upgrade. Not worth the big bucks.
Thanks so much for the advice of trading in at Lexus dealer to save tax money. We traded 330 in at near $34k, and ended up paying only $900+ in taxes. CarMax offered $32k while we would have to pay $2.5k in taxes. Folks, that's a $6k swing.
Love the quick passing capability of it!!!!
Disappointed in the phonebơk download capability of my i605 phone which sends only one phone number at a time, after a series of button pushes. Tedious!
BTW, the shuttle launch was postponed.
The following are some of the parameters that I used in how I drove on this trip:
I decided to drive my 400h just like I drove my RX300 on several past trips over the same route. I generally set my cruise control at the posted speed limits when road conditions and traffic permit. I used 87 octane gasoline (Chevron, Shell, Union 76, or Texaco). I fueled up when needed, or when a major change in terrain was about to occur. I will report the mileage in two ways (actual calculated mpg/navigation system mpg).
On July 1, my wife and I headed south on I-405 from Bellevue, Washington. We both had two pieces of luggage and two carry on bags that would all be allowed as carry on luggage for airline travel. It was a cool morning as we picked up I-5 south at Renton and I had the A/C off. The road to the I-205 cutoff just north of Vancouver, Washington is relatively flat with some gentle rolling terrain. The traffic was light so I had the cruise control set a 60 mph until we reached Olympia where I raised it to 70 mph. By the time I reached Tacoma my mpg read 28.4. When I raised my cruise control to 70 mph my mpg read 28.6. When I reached the I-205 bypass, my mileage had dropped to 27.6. When I rejoined I-5 with my cruise control set at 60 mph, my mpg had increased to 28.3.The highway the rest of the way to Salem, Oregon was flat and level with a 65 mph speed limit. For this leg I turned the A/C on. We stopped for lunch in Salem with the mpg reading 28.5. We continued on and when we reached Roseburg we began elevation changes from sea level to 450 feet through gentle rolling terrain. At this point I stopped for gas after 363.2 miles on this 1st tank. The mpg was 27.06/28.20.
We continued on for 15 miles to Canyonville, Oregon where we stopped for the night. We left Canyonville at 6:30 AM on July 2nd. This leg took us over foothills that reached 900 plus feet and then over the Siskiyou pass at 4,310 feet and then down in to California, climbing again to Weed, California at an elevation of 3,466 feet where we stopped for gas. Coming up the pass I encountered slow moving trucks (45 mph) in the two left lanes. The car effortlessly accelerated to 70 plus mph which was noticeably quicker than in my RX300. This leg of the trip, with the A/C off, was for 145.2 miles with the mpg reading 25.04/25.20.
We continued south on I-5 until we picked up Highway 89 east bound just south of Mt. Shasta. The drive from there (89 to 44 to 36) to Susanville, California (119 miles) is one of my favorites with elevation changes from 4,500 to 5,500 feet. South of Susanville we drove on Highway 395 through Reno, Nevada which has an elevation of 4,490 feet. The terrain and altitude did not seem to have any effect on the performance of the car. The outside temperature had passed 80 degrees and I once again turned on the A/C. South of Carson City we turned west on highway 50 for the climb over Spooner Summit at 7,146 feet and then down to the beautiful Lake Tahoe (6,260 feet) where we stayed until July 6th. On July 5th we took a side trip to Gardnerville, Nevada which took us over another 7,500 foot pass. I filled up the tank here after 324.0 miles and a mpg reading of 28.19/28.20. Considering the elevation changes, I was a little surprised at the mpg.
We once again returned to Lake Tahoe for one more night before heading for Novato, California on July 6th. With A/C on we headed west on Highway 50 over Echo Summit (elevation 7,382 feet). From there it was back down to sea level at Sacramento and then on to Novato over mostly level terrain. Just east of Placerville my mpg reached 31.4 and peaked several miles later at 35.2. We stopped overnight at Novato where we picked up my father-in-law for the trip back home. This added one additional passenger and one more piece of luggage to the gross vehicle weight. Since he can't take air-conditioning (one makes accommodations for 88 year old father-in-laws), we traveled the rest of the way without the A/C running. We stopped for lunch in Redding, California with the temperature at 97 degrees; not a pleasant driving experience inside of the car. I fulled up here after 393.5 miles (14.99 gallons) with a mpg of 26.25/28.10.
We continued on to Roseburg where we stopped for the night. This leg took us past Lake Shasta, then up to Mt. Shasta, and again over the Siskiyou mountain pass. I decided to fuel up here and get my car washed. My mpg was 25.98/25.80.
The next day we had a leisurely drive into Gresham. Oregon where we spent a couple of days visiting our granddaughter. After a few in town miles I filled the tank with a mpg of 27.1/28.3.
The final 195 miles back home took just under three hours. I fueled up in Bellevue with the final leg giving me 28.41/29.80.
The total trip was 1,954 miles and used 72.429 gallons of gas. My average mpg for the trip was 26.98/27.66. The total miles on my odometer now reached 3,030.
I loved my 2003 RX300, but my 400h is quieter, has more power, gets better mileage (4-5 mpg highway), and is a lot of fun to drive. I like the firmer steering and noticed no pull either left or right throughout the trip. The mark Levinson audio system performed admirably as we listened to a 15 CD audio book, CDs from classical to soft rock, my ipod mini, and Tom Brokaw's "The Greatest Generation" on tape. The navigation system is improved with several new screens and the rear seat cup holder and storage compartment was appreciated.
To quote Willie Nelson, we "Can't Wait To Get On The Road Again."
The driving profile is mostly suburban driving with some interstate travel. AC is on maintaining 76 degrees in 80 to 99 degree weather.
First 5 minutes of fuel consumption is always low ranging form about 7mpg to about 16-18 mpg. Second 5 minute interval is usually 20-22 mpg. Subsequent 5 minute intervals usually 22-24 mpg.
Aside from this fuel consumption performance I love the car. It is an engineers dream. Can't wait to transfer my old plates to the 440h. These plates sum up the 400h performance. "ZIPPIN."
My 400h is 900miles and averages 28.5mpg (since last fill-up) in mix driving plus AC on at 81F in 95F weather. I bet it would be far better than 29mpg in more ideal weather.
Your experience about the car lurched forward when your foot on the brake is not consistent with the program in the car computer and the basic design of the hybrid system.
Fact 1: Continuously variable Xmission does not lurches forward like a regular auto-Xmission when its badly tuned engine turns on in this fashion.
Fact 2: when your foot is on the brake, engine does not start up, unless you depleted your battery. And even if it is on, it would not have been coupled with the xmission.
Fact 3: "Lurch:ing" is caused by unexpected torque created when engine start-up occurs inefficiently through sudden high rev, typically experienced in a badly tuned regular combustion engine. The Hybrid system's combustion engine (ICE) is a far better engine than a regular combustion engine because the control computer knows the exact position of every piston in the engine by knowing the exact angle of the crank shaft, to 0.1degree or better (out of a full 360degree revolution). Such position sensing accuracy is a requirement for an ICE to mate with hybrid system, partly TO PREVENT UNEXPECTED TORQUE that can damage the continuouly variable xmission, partly to have the ICE start up in an efficient and precise manner to limit pollution.
Must have been a bad dream.
Not sure where you got your "facts" from, but according to Lexus the engine can start at any point in time when the cars needs it, even when your foot is on the break. In my case the battery was @ 6 bars. Lexus customer service reports that when the AC is running, the added torque to run the secondary alternator motor can cause this lurch. Although your theories may be correct, they are not coconsistentith what Lexus reports. Do you want to trade cars?
I just completed a road trip that included crossing 4 mountain passes in excess of 7000 feet as well as fairly level stretches at sea level to 400 feet and I averaged 26.9 mpg. On a recent run from Portland to Seattle I got 28.5 mpg. I haven't had occasion to run mainly city driving, but am confident that the EPA highway mileage of 27 mpg is low for my 400h.
Around my home I generally drive 90% highway and 10% city and have been consistently been avenging between 27-28.5 mpg using 87 octane fuel. I met another 400h owner who says he gets approximately 2 mpg better when he used 92 octane. I haven't tried that test yet. I generally run with the AC in the auto mode.
There are two stages to the 400h breaks. When pressing hard on the brakes the graphic should not show any transfer of power either to or from the battery.
I have previously owned two RX300s and this car is far superior in performance and mileage.