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Since falconone beats the dead horse to glue and the disinformation still does not stick, only the link (regarding mechanical issues) is posted for those who may not have seen it.
Crash Testing 5 stars Liberty
Regarding safety of the Liberty it recieved 5 stars out of maximum of 5 for 3/4 categories front/side and 4 stars of 5 possible for front passenger in front impact. This was achieved w/o front side airbase which are an option.
As far as rollover safety: Stability Control is standard on all 2006 Liberty. Drive a vehicle properly and rollover is not a problem anyway. Does Liberty have a higher center of gravity than a passenger car? Sure, with the ground clearance that allows off road performance the center of gravity is going to increase. Basic physics.
Braking: falconone would have you believe that Liberty has "crappy" brakes. In the PM test 6 feet separated the Liberty CRD from the lighter Escape. Liberty braking vs. Sorrento and XL7 In the above test the Liberty is comparable to other SUVs.
This does not equate to crappy.
All the above notwithstanding, while Jeep Liberty CRD or VW Jetta TDI are examples of current diesels, they do not define the potential of diesel technology. Honda, Toyota and Mercedes among others offer current diesels that are more refined or offer reliability than what is currently offered in the USA.
Comparing Prius with Liberty CRD may be relevant due to the limitations of the current diesel offerings in North America, however, do not ignore the fact that the Prius is the most advanced hybrid offered in the world while we have yet to have the opportunity to compare it to the most advanced diesels. ULSD will be here soon....
"It could be VW and BMW that beats GM and Honda to the punch!
In fact many other automobile companies are pursuing what you call the gas equivalent of diesel!
Thankfully this kind of intense competition will make such a vehicle possible sooner rather than later! Just that we dont know when and which company will be the first? ""...
I would also agree. This goes to my take that we do not need to LEGISLATE HIGHER (or lower) fuel mileage standards. As Moparbad has pointed out, using the byzantine CA example, LEGISLATION actually KEEPS out the higher mileage vehicles; such as the TDI !!!!! How is that for irony, disengenuousness, etc. etc.!!???
So for example if I drive my TDI in fuel miser mileage mode, like some of the Prius mileage warriors, I am at 62 mpg or 3 mpg short of the 65 mpg hypothetical (nirvana) hybrid !!! So it gets down to would you rather have one in hand or two in the bush?? Anti diesel folks have surely indicated 2 in fantasy land is THE BOMB!!
You almost have to conduct due dilligence when you are considering the Toyota LINE and/or a particular model.
I do not trust anything (or nearly anything)evaluated by CR. I find forums such as this one and others similar to it a far more reliable source of data on products.
Yes.. the Liberty did get 5 safety stars. MOST cars easily get that today. What's more important is the offset test where it failed miserably. MARGINAL.. I would not trust my life to a Liberty.
link title
Picture looks different does int not?
What is this supposed to imply?
6 feet DOES matter if you have to stop short. 6 feet DOES matter if a pedestrian crosses your path and you end up hitting that person!!!
That is ABSURD! The 6 ft difference is at 60 mph and you are traveling 88 feet per second at 60 mph. Reality is that reaction time is significant, 6 ft is insignificant.
I had a Liberty and the brakes fade very quickly after repeated stops. The car is tippy, is loud and the seats are made for weird shaped people.
You never had a Liberty CRD. You had a 2002 Liberty and the suspension and interior has been redesigned.
Yes.. the Liberty did get 5 safety stars. MOST cars easily get that today. What's more important is the offset test
The Liberty tested by IIHS was a 2002. We are not discussing 2002 Liberty here. What were the IIHS test results for the Prius? OH, there are no results! :surprise: Better not trust your life to a Prius!
moparbad touted stats that suggested the TDI does the quarter mile in 14.5 seconds at nearly 100 mph? He hasn't even admitted that he posted eroneous information.
And you have not admitted that your are from Mars yet. :P A Jetta TDI (modified) can and did travel the 1/4 mile at 14.5. How about a 2001 Chevy diesel running the 1/4 at 12.6? Or a 2001 Golf TDI running 15.37?
Diesel Drag Racing
DHRA
The "All Rights Reserved" may be a clue that you are violating copyright and probably TOS of Edmunds too.
The IIHS.ORG tests are for 2002-2006. Look at their site.
MARGINAL!!!!
6 feet is 6 feet anyway you cut it. Liberty brakes and handling are their big weak point.
Prius has been tested in Europe MUCH more severely than here and is extremely hardy. Much more so that the Liberty. The Liberty is just a midwestern soccer mom car for moms that don't have the bucks to buy a Grand Cherokee.
I drove an AMC/Renalut Alliance from 84-92. It was a great car. It lost its AC early on, which didn't matter as I lived in San Francisco and almost never needed AC, and according to our very French mechanic, that probably helped the car last so long. It had a tiny engine. $ doors. I drove it cross country and back one summer (Tucson > Wyoming > Boston > San Francisco >Tucson). Great car. Hard to imagine that we got by with so little HP.
Can we move on?
Point I was making with the Liberty versus the two Toyota SUVs (Highlander, Sequoia), that they are no better and no worse than my Liberty. You had made a blanket statement, or it at least appeared to be, that Toyota was better. It is not.
DC has done a good job of resolving CRD issues more quickly where as Toyota is still having trouble year two into the Prius HSD.
Both vehicles have postings with issues, some of the them pretty bad.
As to performance 0 - 60, Prius 10.2 sec, VW TDI (Passat 10.2 sec, Liberty CRD 9.5 to 10.7 sec depending on who tested. First two from Motor Trend, last one from Motor Week and others.
That way everyone will still get to see what it is your trying to show us, and we'll avoid the margin problems.
Here's a link to your image falconone:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c372/falconone69/PriLib.jpg
Thanks!
Acceleration is poor in the mid range in the CRD. Many tests point this out. It loses its breath going up hill as well. I'd actually like to perform a test with a Prius and a CRD going up a 5% grade for five miles. I bet the Prius would win. Never,ever have I ever seen anyone towing anything with a Liberty. Anyone that owns a boat has more than enough money to tow with something more substantial.
Have read that the Prius tach will run from 1300 to 4500 rpm at 60 mph. Lot of revs for 60 mph. CRD 1800 rpm at 60 mph.
I would like to try what you suggest one day.
That seems impossible. Any vehicle, regardless of engine, will show increased RPM when the load increases like that.
The CRD did not have xxx pounds of available torque that was just sitting there being unused and at the grade said "Oh, we have a grade now, chaps, let us give more power."
Even 18 wheelers bog down on grades, with their hundreds or thousands of horsepower.
The DOE is responsible for tracking how much energy is produced in the country. The link above relates to today's to the November 16th report (for those that read this post later in time).
As you can see, the imports AND the increased US gasoline refinery capacity (due to the distillate to gasoline cracking switchover) is why gas prices fell off a cliff and the diesel/home heating fuel remained fairly constant.
The energy industry is a very tight supply/demand market. It does not take a huge change in supply or demand to really jerk the prices around. The demand, within reason, may be accurately forecasted. The refineries run somewhere in the 90-98% capacity (the number I read the most is 95%). The needed slack is made up through importation. When you trash the refineries AND you plug up one our major import points, everything hits the fan...especially in an on-demand society
Hope this clears up some issues. The DOE Thins Week in Petroleum site can be subscribed to for e-mail updates.
Which tests?
Not this one But as soon as the revs have built up just a bit, it pulls like a draft horse up to limit. Its performance in all gears feels far superior to the 210hp, 3.7L gasoline. Not only does it feel a lot peppier, but it is definitely a lot more fun to drive than the 3.7L
Not this one This combination gives the Liberty CRD plenty of grunt at low speeds and surprisingly good passing power on the freeway. In fact, with all the torque, there's very little work for the standard five-speed automatic transmission.
Is it this one But the quarter mile is somewhat less so at 17.1 seconds and 79 miles-per-hour. After that first burst, power goes soft at midrange. Maybe they have a point, 1/4 mile is almost as slow as a Prius 17.75 @ 76.8 mph 1/4 mile.
Of course, the CRD does weigh 4300 lbs compared to 2900 lbs of the Prius. Bit of a weigh penalty there.
Go to the Jeep website and look at the torque curve for a CRD. It is quite flat from 1400 to 3200 rpm and there is 240 lb-ft + of torque available throughout this range. In this case, horsepower is not as important as torque.
As for the big rigs, they have 300 - 450 HP and about 1200 - 1700 lb-ft of torque and that is pulling 80K pounds. I am pulling 5100 lbs (CRD + four people) or 17.2 lbs of weight/lb-ft of torque. A big rig of 80K lbs and say 1500 lb-ft of torque id 53.3 lbs of weight/lb-ft of torque. Big difference.
The new diesels are so different from the old. They may still make some noise, but they perform much better than their older pre-common rail brothers.
Diesels tend to tire at higher engine speeds, and although the Liberty CRD loses some stamina when climbing highway grades, acceleration is still acceptable.
Unfortunately, the diesel Jeep is not without a few drawbacks. Even with two fewer cylinders, the drivetrain adds almost 300 pounds of extra curb weight (4,306 pounds total), and seven-tenths of a second to the truck's 0-to-60-mph time, now 10.9 seconds.
Another problem is noise. The hybrids go silent at stoplights, the Liberty chugs and clatters in rhythm with the delivery truck in the next lane. Some call it endearing, others call it irritating.
Based on the mileage we got in the Liberty CRD, we'd come out ahead after a year of ownership. It would take us about five years to break even in the Highlander Hybrid and about six years in the RX 400h.
Our CRD tester also recorded the best tank of this group, 25 mpg over 220 miles.
We weren't delighted with our 23-mpg average, considering that Toyota's hybrid SUV is rated 31 city/27 highway.
Add eight hundred pounds of bodies to your Prius and try to remain in top gear going up a long steep grade maintaining the same rpm. Try to accelerate from 55 to 70 quickly up a hill without going over 1950 rpm loaded. Damn good chance you cannot. If you can, I might be impressed, but I doubt you can.
But overall, they just have too many other problems.
As a commuter car, with mostly city driving, 1-2 people, it remains impossible for any diesel to beat the current high mileage hybrids (insight/HCH/Prius) for that task.
I am calling it a day. Will continue tomorrow.
Once again.
Higher engine speeds are not required to reach maximum torque on the CRD. 295 lb/ft are accessible at 1800 RPM.
Torque IS Power.
But overall, they just have too many other problems.
As a commuter car, with mostly city driving, 1-2 people, it remains impossible for any diesel to beat the current high mileage hybrids (insight/HCH/Prius) for that task""
Problems to date:
1. 48-50 mpg in a bumper to bumper daily commute 2. range of 44-62 mpg. 3. Fuel filter goes 65,000 miles between changing 4. Oil change interval is 25,000 miles,
Not diesel per se: Tires are slated to last 100k -130k, brakes 120k.
I dispute that. VW Lupo or Audi A2 will out mpg a Prius or HCH and will also transport 3 people. Try that with and Insight!Lupo and A2
65.7 mpg
If you ever want to pollute the environment use heating oil in your diesel vehicle.
The result of that waiting and being put upon and getting filthy — the passenger-diesel marketer's nightmare — is a so-so 23.2 miles per gallon after 200 highway miles for the Liberty's 2.8-liter, four-cylinder, Italian diesel.
And diesels, unlike high-efficiency gas-electric hybrid vehicles, don't qualify for an income tax deduction. Buy 'em because you love 'em, or leave 'em alone.
If there is anything significantly disappointing about the Liberty CRD it's that the fuel economy, while improved, isn't stunning.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2005-03-31-liberty_x.htm
Actually a GOOD article.
Most I've read were positive. Aside from the loudness and the stopping distances, I will take one for a test drive to decide for myself. I think it would be foolish of me to be prejudiced by my ownership experience with the 2002. Fair enough??
Actually the VW Touareg meets the 6k # gvw rule. As you know, this has been detuned from 100,000 first year to 25,000 first year
Exhaust that smells like frys makes me laugh.
Question for the experts here- Will the GMC and Chevrolet Hybrid Trucks run on E85?
Have a buddy fill up with biodiesel (which is a broad term, but includes the oil from french fry units) and then have him start the engine. It does not smell like you are outside a McDonald's. At least that is my direct experience with one TDI, about 6 months ago.
but that was also a SF Bay Area blend. Maybe the blend is different in other areas (and the oil % is different, etc.)
You're joking right? Assuming a manual transmission or an automatic with a lock-up torque converter (as virtually all fluid coupled automatic transmissions are these days), there is a direct correlation between engine RPM and vehicle speed. When winter2 claimed that the engine didn't downshift it sounded very much to me like he spoke the truth. Why? One of the hallmarks of diesel engines is their ability to soldier along at relatively low RPMs, flat ground, up hill or down.
On the flip side, while his engine RPMs stayed constant, I guarantee his fuel flow didn't.
Best Regards,
Shipo
You will need to verify if you have a flexfuel vehicle at the national website:
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php
You will also need to confirm the 8th number/letter of your vin.