By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Amazing how people LOVE to knock the Prius. Oh.. I especially like the story about spontaneous combustible Prius. Anyone who believes that... well... go to the virgin Mary statue in Sacramento to see it bleeding. Yeah....right....
#263 of 402 2005 Prius FIRE by black4 Jun 02, 2005 (3:48 pm)
Reply | E-mail Msg
Sorry to deviate from the "software" problem, but thought Prius folks would want to know about this. Also, very interested to learn of any other Prius fires. My wife and I purchased a new 2005 Prius in NOV 04. After driving the vehicle to work and allowing it to sit nearly 8 hours in the employee parking lot, our new Prius (with approx 8k miles) burst into flames. Insurance has listed it as a "total" loss. Indications from fire investigation (fire dept and insurance company) are that the fire originated in the dash near the drivers side. Have notified Toyota (over 1 week ago). Waiting to see if this was a simple "electrical" fire OR if it had something to do with the Hybrid components. To this point, we had been very happy with the Prius and our other Toyotas (through the years).
Here is another burning Prius link title
As for noise from a CRD, it is obvious you have never heard one at idle from the outside. No knock, no rattle, just a very distant clickling sound.
I thought you loved CR! You sound like one of them. I only quoted what CR printed. :P
P.S. CRD requires ULSD. Maybe that's why everyone is complaining how poorly their cars are idling/running.
Well you got that one right. As far as believing posters on Edmund's. I trust them over the fat cats in the ivory towers at CR.
I know the CRD requires ULSD, and that will happen next year. My CRD runs just fine, thank you and on B20 too. No idle, running or EGR issues at all. Only a very few are complaining about rough idle.
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group said Friday that it would voluntarily recall about 300,000 vehicles with a potential defect that could prevent the driver from placing the transmission in "park."
The recall involves some 2005 model year Jeep Liberty, Jeep Wrangler, Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum, Dodge Dakota/Mitsubishi Raider pickups and Dodge Durango vehicles equipped with some six-cylinder engines and automatic transmissions. More...
http://www.vehicle-injuries.com/2005-vehicle-safety-news.htm
DC makes some pretty crappy vehicles.
http://tinyurl.com/c5bgp
Show me a valid link to Prius catching fire. Absolutely FALSE. Oh.. forget to mention. My underwear caught fire after eating hot wings at Chilis. I'll send a link from the AP later.
A little mud in the face? Toyota is not perfect like you like us to assume. Went to the first link. Look at Jul7, 2005. Tacoma truck with bad seatbelt sensor that could cause the airbag to deploy randomly. I consider the articles in the Edmunds forum to be legit, not because it fits my needs. In any forum I have visited, people are venting about something or asking about something no matter which car it is.
Braking info., 60 - 0 CRD - 139.9ft (PM) Prius -152 (CNET)
As I find more I will post.
Toyota makes some pretty crappy vehicles.
I do not believe the above statement, it's point is to show how silly "DC makes some pretty crappy vehicles" statement supported by a recall link is.
Had to have my CRD serviced today, it required a software reflash. Now I've experienced what Prius owners go through.
Filled it up and took it for a drive to see how it was working. 28.1 mpg indicated after the trip.
CRD is a deal!
I guess making a good profit is construed as gouging. I think if you do a little research you will find that Toyota made more profit on a percentage of sales than most of the oil companies. I dare say it costs more to develop an oil field than develop a hybrid. So who is getting gouged? I say the person that buys a Toyota. Not the person that fills up with BP or ARCO gas.
More data. 0 - 60 (PM)
CRD 10.53
Prius 10.73
From C & D (0 - 60))
CRD 10.1
Prius 11.3
Standing 1/4 mile (C&D)
CRD: 17.3 sec @ 77 mph
Prius: 18.3 sec @ 76 mph
Values obtained from 2004 and 2005 listings/articles. Prius was HSD, not pre-HSD.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2005&make=Jeep&model=Liberty&trimi- d=-1
Looks like the Prius trumps the CRD once again. Will most more as I find it.
link title
link title
Second link is for the 2004 Prius.
Some highlights!!
60-0 Prius @ 127.9 feet
60-0 Liberty @ 139.9 feet (whew.... tractor trailor territory)
40-70 (important benchmark) Prius 8.93 & Lib 9.73
As to 0-60 and 1/4 miles times
0-60 Lib 10.53 and Prius 10.53 (now how close is that??)
Prius.. a little hybrid trumps the fat cat Liberty. ]
P.S. Has anyone been concerned about spare tire theft? I see so many Liberties running around without their spare.
Take a chill pill fellas !!!
The point of diesels and hybrids is high gas mileage and for larger diesels, torque for pulling.
How fast we get to 60 is just an artificial measurement invented by a car testing magazine a few decades ago......
In the acceleration department, again, overall close. Neither is a rocket. Again, either of us could stack the data to prove their point.
As to brake rotor and pad issues, I cannot comment on them. My last experience was with a 1993 Dodge Dakota 4X2 with a 318 stuck in it. Replaced the front rotors at 104K, pads at 57K and at 104K. Never touched the rear brakes except to clean them from time to time.
As for towing, there are a number of CRD owners who do tow some serious weight and are pretty pleased with the performance.
As to braking distances, I stand by what I said earlier. As to testing methods, they all boil down to being so similar that differences are minimal.
As to handling issues, once I trashed the Goodyear crap that came from the factory I found the handling quite satisfactory. Stayed with the OEM size. As to being treacherous in snow, could not tell you as this will be my first winter with the CRD or any 4WD vehicle. I have ordered a set of chains for the rear wheels for really bad weather. I intend to add weight to the rear even if it is four wheel drive.
If NJ follows CARB rules, you will not be able to buy a new diesel powered vehicle, but you will be able to buy one with 7501 or more miles on it and drive it legally in NJ, just as you can in CA and the other states that follow CARB rules. 7501 miles is still quite new in my book.
I am a medical professional(27 years worth), and seconds count big time. I am aware that hybrid makers have done what they feel they can do to make sure that there is no safety issue, but those precious seconds or minutes are terribly important. I have no idea what the procedure is to make sure a hybrid is not energized with hundreds of volts or amps, but I am confident that it will take time that could be used to save a life.
How many Jaws extractions have you been around? Are most of them around the passenger doors/windows/roof? Have there been any which have involved cutting through the bottom of the car, down near the drive shaft area?
Because that's where the Prius high voltage cable runs. And it's clearly marked in bright orange tape.
This is much todo about nada.....The Toyota training is a good corporate thing for them to do, but it's mostly preparing people for something that is unlikely to ever be an issue -EVER even once.
This is not the first time the media has brought up this issue. I disagree that it is as you say "hoopla about nada". Still there is fear, legitimate or not, it is there.
I am not saying that it will ever happen, but the potential is there, like it or not. Engineering is only so good no matter how good it is.
When I saw the extractions with JAWS, it still took time, precious time in most cases. Add to this another layer of checking a hybrid, and it could make a difference. You are probably right, it may never happen, but time never stops and time moves even faster for the severely injured.
"Ray: But from what we've been able to learn, and from what the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration tells us, the danger appears to be minimal. For example, the Toyota Prius has a 274-volt electric motor in addition to a small gasoline engine. But in order to get a shock from the electric motor, you'd have to strip the casing off of both the positive and the negative wires and touch both of them at the same time. And since they run through an enclosed tunnel in the center of the car's floor and are both encased in bright orange, that's not something an emergency worker is going to do by accident.
Tom: And if the accident were severe enough to expose those wires, what are the chances that the electric motor would still be in a condition to be "on" and working? Probably low. So electrocution seems to be an unlikely scenario.
Ray: The other reason the wires are buried in a tunnel in the floor is so that if someone were using a Jaws of Life on a door or on the roof, he or she would be nowhere near any live wires."
If and when it ever does happen, G-d forbid, I certainly will not be gloating about it.
A person buys a car with advanced safety features because of the peace of mind it provides, and sincerely hoping he never has to use them.
If the emergency worker (who probably doesn't spend as much time as us researching how safe the electrical system in the hybrids really are) sights the big-honking batteries where he isn't expecting to find any, he's certainly going to hesitate to cut through them. And guess what. His hesitation will be very costly for the occupants of the car.
..."After you have removed this plug, wait 5 minutes and test for low volts (close to zero) at the orange cables you are close to. If they are under 12 volts, all is clear. Tape up any cable ends and bare metal. Don't forget that the 276-volt battery pack always has the potential for supplying you with a lethal charge, so handle this battery pack with care. Also, keep in mind that Mitchell and ALLDATA have good information on this car"...
Don't forget the above is in the context of a REPAIR!! NOT in an ACCIDENT condition where EVERYTHING can be potentially hazardous and LETHAL.
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/aug2002/special.cfm
Kind of hard to have a rational discussion, when some of the hybrid types worship at the Church of Perpetual Denial.
"Toyota showed off a hybrid Prius. First, they demonstrated that high-voltage cables are bright orange, the industry standard. They run through the firewall, under the chassis and connect to the batteries in the back of the vehicle, in a metal housing.
A spokesman said that special sensors can tell when there's been an accident.
"There are impact sensors that would be able to register you were involved in an impact and be able to isolate the battery at that point," Bob Skakun said.
He also pointed out the fuse box under the hood, which can be used to shut down the high voltage manually.
"You remove this fuse and it shuts the entire system down," he said.
The hybrid manufacturers each have designed extensive emergency response manuals for rescue squads, fire departments and mechanics.
The new training has rescuers trying to keep up.
"One of the ways that goes across the board for all of the vehicles is to take the key away from the vehicle and shut off the 12-volt battery," Dalrymple said.
That is certain to eliminate all power in any of the cars he said.
Toyota also said its cars have a ground-fault system similar to what is found in homes and apartments to prevent electrocution."
The new training has rescuers trying to keep up.
The emergency worker has to study this extensive material, remember it and practice it until it becomes second nature to him for him not to be slowed down in his extraction of occupants from a crashed hybrid. Do you seriously think that's going to happen.
He also pointed out the fuse box under the hood, which can be used to shut down the high voltage manually.
"You remove this fuse and it shuts the entire system down," he said.
Let me get this straight.
The emergency worker has to locate the fuse under the hood and pull it out before he can safely cut through whatever he needs to to get the occupants out. The hood would probably be a mangled mess anyway in a serious accident.
"One of the ways that goes across the board for all of the vehicles is to take the key away from the vehicle and shut off the 12-volt battery," Dalrymple said.
This one is priceless..
So the occupants of the car, who are probably unconscious, must detach the key from the ignition before the emergency workers can get in. Or should the emergency worker do so?
Yep, emergency workers do that kind of training all the time - like with Airbags. Not uncommon at all.
quote-" Or should the emergency worker do so?"
The emergency workers commonly do this, to prevent electrical fires. Again, not uncommon at all.
If you had to dig into a mangled hybrid, even with proper protection to get at a fuse or safety switch not knowing if you might get zorched in the process, would you not be concerned? I would be. Training or not, I would be scared.
I have taken a hit from a 40KV coil. Ended up 15 feet from the car badly stunned. Coils deal in milli or micro amps, hybrid drive batteries are in the 80 - 90 amps or more, well into lethal territory.
In the hybrids, the safety switches are buried in the trunk or behind a rear seat. There are some other things you can do to but in any event, it takes time and puts the rescuer as well as the occupant of the hybrid at risk.
You know, now that I think about it more, I dont think it matters one WHIT whether it was Toyota or EPA which tested the car.
That's because only 10-15 % of the cars ARE tested ACTUALLY by the EPA.
This means that the EPA has a test system which can be exactly duplicated by car makers in labs around the world.
So whether the EPA tested ANY CAR or not does not matter, because the EPA CERTIFIES the results and puts their stamp on it.
I would agree. The good/bad news is that it is a repeatable/duplicatible set of procedures. The only thing in theory is testing error i.e., error due to testing.
I think we all agree on that. It does not make it any better for Toyota and the Prius when people cannot get close to the EPA rating with a car that was primarily built to get good mileage. You buy a truck or SUV and it is off by 25% no one seems to care.
The tires really run the gambit from great tires with no real mileage warranties to lousy tires with great warranties. The funny thing was there are some GREAT tires that are actually cheaper and more expensive than the oem tires !!! There is literally a plethora of choices. Sometimes it can be mind numbing to separate the "wheat from the chaff. " Of course it can help to participate in affinity groups, so you can try different (tire products etc., etc.,) products.
This is OLD news. In our little community on the Outer Banks the parttime EMT's were being trained (?) over a year ago. Actually before the Gen2 came out there was guidance from Toyota on this matter based on the prior 10 years of development.
The solution is the same as the fuel shutoff valve from the gastank to the sparkplugs. This has been covered several times on these forums as well. ABC has to put something on air so this is a catchy subject.
As a medical professional I'm sure you remember 'the flesh-eating bacteria that was going to consume the US' TV 'news reports' of several years ago.
Here is a page where an Australian couple are using high mpg diesels to set MPG records. Even THEY, who are EXPERTS ON DIESEL technology and the MPG they have achieved, include in their tips "do not use A/C or use it sparingly.
"6.Minimise Use Of Air Conditioning - Unless it's freezing, or sweltering, keep the air conditioner off (fan is usually sufficient for cool or warm air flow into the vehicle). It is a major fuel thief in traffic, increasing fuel consumption by up to 10%.
I think that's the best thing I have seen yet to prove my point, which is that diesel cars are not "magic" when it comes to a/c usage - their fuel efficiency is sapped also, like any other car with an air conditioner.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:efgYEpMw6CIJ:www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_104697/- newsarticle.html+%22air+conditioner%22+%2Bcar+-%22heat+pump%22+-home+%2Bdiesel+%- 2Bfuel&hl=en
I am not trying to say that in all diesel cars there is NO loss of mileage. I am saying that in a car with plenty of power for the size of the vehicle it is a negligible loss of mileage. With a very small engine you will see more loss than with a big V8. So those 5% or 10% figures are estimates at best. I would think on the smaller VW TDI you may see a slight loss in MPG. I have not seen as much a 1 MPG difference in the Passat TDI.
On the other hand it looks like 10%+ loss on the hybrids using AC is the norm. At least according to the owners reporting here at Edmund's.
Lastly, if I was trying to squeeze every possible mile from any car I would consider the AC costs something to run. It is worth it to me. Have not bought a car since 1973 without AC, even in Alaska.
I have been used to 12V batteries going out at the 10 year (120 mo) mark, for app 15-20 years. So every time I got a a new replacement battery, most vendors expressed surprize that they lasted as long as they did, given most do business at the 4 year or less mark. At the 10 year mark I guess I just thought it time for a normal replacement
So to cut to the chase, here are some options:
1. the batteries are not well made anymore
2. today's high demand current draw does not either allow for or let the battery recharge to 100%
3. todays alternators are not specified with high enough charge replacement capability.
4. some combination?
I am also aware that incorrect recharging can also diminish battery life. So while on board indicators showing correct charging volts, electrical checks on more technical battery test equipment (i.e., on now bought battery charger) indicate that just normal use of the CAR (actually battery) leaves it less than 80% charged after even a LONG operation. (one hour or more).
So the cross over or upshot: is this indeed happening with the hybrid BATTERIES? There are even more batteries which cost EVEN MORE both per and for the arrays? So is the regenerative capability REALLY putting the level back to 100% charge?