I drove an ES350 yesterday (first one I have seen). I was impressed with the interior layout and comfort of the seats. I was unimpressed with the road feel through the steering wheel (none) which I guess is the Lexus objective. I was also less than impressed with the exterior (looks a lot like a Camry). I was ready to be WOW'd but came out of the drive feeling flat.
i've been scratching my head about the lexus es 350 options.didn't they make it confusing.
if i keep all the top end options, it costs me about $43k. that makes me to think,if i spend a couple of more thousands, i could get acura RL , which they have it standard. (i've read posts on acura RL where people bought a new RL for $43k)
what do you people think?
voice your opinion people, some one from lexus will be watching this forum and at least for the next model year they will make it simple.
Does anyone know what sort of All Season tires are being fitted to the non-Ultra cars? I've had an excellent experience with Yokohama Avid V4s in the same size on my Maxima, and believe that may be a good solution to what some have commented on a disconnected road feel. I'll likely look to swap them out after the first winter or so.
I agree with you. The only upside with ES350 is better MPG. But everything else, RL is in another class. Real time Nav is a killer. Will route you through real-time traffic condition.
I think ES350 was way over hyped by Lexus. If demand is less than expected, which will be the case in my opinion, you will be better off waiting a couple more months.
C'mon, you will get better deal on Volvo S80, Acura TL or RL, Benz C350. Basically this is where I'm at waiting to see which gives me the best bang for my bucks. I can get '06 C350 w/ Nav under $33,000. Now TL w/ Nav under $32,000? Why would I fork out over $40 for entry level Lexus 350?
Because we think the ES is a better car than the Acura.
Acura is a darn nice car but it drives too firm for me, I want comfort. You want a sportier drive then go for it.
The Lexus also has cooled seats. I'm not a fan of leather, I think it gets too hot, and the cooled seats will make the leather bearable for me.
2 months ago the timing chain snapped on my 92 Camry after 165K miles. The tow truck driver mentioned to me that he almost never gets Toyota's on the hook.
I asked him about some other cars and his answers were: Nissan, ALL the time, Honda/Acura, not so much but it does happen, far less than American cars. Toyota, very rare and his last answer stunned me, Lexus NEVER, not in 10 years of tow truck driving everyday. I thought that was impressive.
My dealer finally got a ES in for me to test drive today. But because of my heart surgery I told him I would be out of commission for about 2 more weeks. Bummer. Finally it comes in and I can't try it out:(
I'm not worrying about the looks which I think are just fine. The Camry is only a bit ugly with that fugly grill which the Lexus is without.
I thought the new Camry drove fine, no surprises. I just don't want the ES to drive as "boaty" as the Avalon seems to.
But I did drive a Buick LaCrosse the same day I drove the Avalon and the difference is clear, even the LaCrosse has a much more boatier feel, and not nearly the engine power.
For me the ES is about ultimate comfort, yet with enough engine power to pull away from almost anybody at a light within reason.
If you want a car to drive like a Porsche with that speed and feel, and you need to be a nut who changes 6 lanes back and forth in 20 seconds, then go buy a Porsche, or a BMW, or a Lexus IS.
But if you want a smoother ride that still has a great deal of power then the ES is a great choice. I read one review that said the ES 350 really, really, REALLY wants to be a sports car but is simply a tight, smooth riding, fast luxury car. That sounds good to me.
One word summary(okay two)........'not impressed'. Maybe my expectations were too high......the drive is very flat with no feel and lag in the acceleration. Interiors are not very spacious (my head was bumping in the roof in the back seat). I would have bought it were it selling with the top end options for 33-34k. It is quiet and refined like a lexus, and has a lot of tech options...but it does not compete with cars in the 43k range...Infiniti M, 5 series, RL are all much better cars. I agree with posts above.....no point buying this at MSRP..let the price come closer to the real value.
It all depends on just what you want in a car, I guess... for me, "quiet, smooth, refined, and lots of tech options" describes pretty well what I'm looking for, which is why I just bought an ES 350 myself. (I just got it yesterday, so I haven't had it long enough to give a detailed review yet.)
Same here. That's what I was looking for too. That's why I also bought one yesterday. I got the Royal Ruby with cashmere interior. So far, I am absolutely loving it. Especially the navigation system. Now I can't wait to get a bluetooth cell phone.
I just got a bluetooth phone today... fortunately, I was close enough to the end of the two-year contract on my previous phone to get a new one without penalty.
I'm choosing my car now but the local dealers don't have many cars to preview the various colors. I'm particularly iterested in seeing a Smoky Granite in a real world picture. If anyone has purchased this color, could you take some pictures and post them for us? Thanks.
I'm glad to hear some of you are buying the new ES right away. You people, unlike some of the others, must be impressed.
So what do you guys who have bought have to say? Is the steering too soft and the ride too mushy? Does it drive like a boat? Does the acceleration lag?
Since I ordered one, without driving it I am slightly worried about these issues.
But my dealer told me if I really didn't like the car when it came in I could use the deposit on a new IS if I wanted a tighter, sportier ride.
But when I drove the IS, I found it to be just a little firm for me, and a little too cramped in the cabin, but I could live with it and overall I liked the car. But I choose the ES because I wanted a bit more space inside and a smoother ride.
I drove the new 2007 Camry, who's platform the ES is on and I didn't find it too large or boaty, or unweildly at all, even though the ES is slightly bit heavier.
But surprisingly the 200HP IS I drove was about the same weight as the ES, about 3500 pounds give or take a 100.
So I figure if the cars are similar in weight, and the ES will have 70 more HP, it should be a faster accelerating car.
In no way did I think the IS was slow or sluggish. In fact the dealer let me take it out by myself and I thought I was driving the 306 HP model when in fact it turns out I was driving the 204 HP model.
To be honest, I'm no judge of acceleration anymore because my 92 camry, with it's measly 140 HP engine seems like it takes 10-12 seconds to get to 60 MPH. So almost every newer car seems much faster to me.
That being said I was still very impressed by the IS, and I have no problem with that level of acceleration. But if I were to change my mind and get it I might just go for that 304 HP engine.
But then again I don't know. Years ago when I delivered pizza one of the old Nova's we had blew it's engine. The garage didn't have a regular engine to put in it, so they put in something like a 455 HP engine that I think came out of a Vette! The damn thing was a rocket, but it's suspension or brakes could not handle the power, and I almost killed myself in that car!
Anyway how do you guys who have bought the car think of the handling, feel, and acceleration of the new ES350?
If you thought the Camry drove fine then you should be satisfied with the ES. It is a softer, more comfortable ride than the IS but it is supposed to be. It is firmer than in past models. Everone wants something different out of a car. I enjoy the occasional sporty ride down a twisty road but 99.9% of my driving is taking my kids to school, travelling to a client's office, etc. I was deciding between the GS and the ES. While the GS was fun, it was best suited for the .1% of my driving that required a stiffer suspension and not the 99.9% of my driving where I would prefer to cruise in comfort and style. This made it an easy decision for me. Other will have to decide how often they would need/enjoy having a sports car experience versus a luxury car experience.
You won't be disappointed with the acceleation. It is enough to satisfy all but the most avid of sports car enthusiasts. It will push you back into the seat and keep you there for a few seconds when you really step on it.
I was impressed enough with the car that I am getting one as soon as I can choose the color. Because I want the ultraluxury and they are somewhat rare right now, I might have to wait a couple of months to get the car that I want. I was pleased enough with the test drive that I'm excited about the car and anxious to get one. Hope your experience is similar.
Hi, I just test drived an ES350 and really like it. Have anyone tried one with the panoramic roof, looks really cool in the picture. The dealer only have Ultra-luxury and Mark Levinson combined package and quote me for 43K. I don't really need the better sound system, but they told me it will take 90-120 days to order one without. Is the sound system really worth it? And 43K is MSRP, what number should I be offering for this new car?
The older ES 330 was selling till a couple weeks back for about 31k (with their top package Mark Levinson and Navigation)... The new ES is a much better car.....but 12k difference feels a bit steep
...I'm getting my ES 350 in a couple of weeks and I called the Lexus people to get a recommendation for a compatible Verizon phone.
Much to my amazement they told me that there were none and that only Cingular or T-Mobile phones would work with their bluetooth system!!!???
They gotta be kidding.
Over half the damn country uses Verizon. Guess why? It's the best (by far) carrier. And these rocket scientists can't design a car that works with the carrier that half the United Staes uses???
So is the point that I may have to go with a vastly inferior service provider just to use the bluetooth capability of the car?
And I thought bluetooth was a standardized technology.
i've read posts on acura RL where people bought a new RL for $43k.
That's what I did. I leased a new RL for net cap price of $43K, $600 a month plus tax for 36 months/12K a year. I was going to look at the new ES first, but the UL package is needed to make the ES comparable to the RL. That made the price too close for me to pass up the RL. I added the review camera for only $450. I'll look at the ES again in three years.
what does it make you think it is the Lexus's fault where you can't use a verizon bluetooth cellphones on ES350? There are different bluetooth profiles that each different phone can support. Some cellphone company (Verizon) locks on certain profile on certain phones. You will need Hands Free Profile and Headset Profile on the phone in order for it to work on ES350. If you want to see caller ID, push phone book to your car, and be able to do other things your ES350 screen, you will need OBEX(OBject EXchange) enabled on your cellphone. However, Verizon is known to lock OBEX on their cellphones. Therefore, any cellphone with required profiles should work, only IF the cellphone company do not lock out the required profiles.
Thanks for the info. I'm also looking for a bluetooth phone to work with Verizon. I just purchased the ES350 and am looking forward to using the bluetooth features. Any recommendations on which would be the best cell phone to use with Verizon and the ES350?
I am no longer a verizon customer for ~2 years now, and I have no plan of going back to them. Verizon service is good, but their phone sucks. My ES350 will be here in 2 weeks, and I will let you know how Audiovox SMT4600 and Sony P910 (both smartphones) work on the new car. Sorry, I would have no information on which verizon phone is better than another. I have heard that Verizon Razr V3, and treo650 works with ES350, but don't count me on that.
Thanks for your real world reviews guys. That's what I'm interested in.
Because there are so many who have labeled this car with so many negative things you begin to second guess yourself.
As far as the pro reviews I haven't seen much negativity at all.
But the private reviews have used these descriptions:
Slow Acceleration Sluggish Underpowered compared to the competition Poor Handling Unresponsive steering No feedback in steering (I'm not even sure what that means, I want the car to steer, I don't need resistance when I steer.) Drives like a slow cruise liner Poor Drive Boring, no excitement Very significant body roll in turns Cramped headroom Uneven shifting Poor Ergonomics
Many of these people have said that the ES can't measure up to Infiniti, Acura, Audi, Jaguar, or Mercedes for the same price.
I think these people may be nuts myself.
One thing I know for sure is that Lexus/Toyota have a great reliability factor, more so than ANY of those other cars. Because I know people who have problems with ALL those brands of cars I listed.
You could not give me an Audi, or to me an ugly Infiniti. Jaguars live in the shop, Mercedes don't seem to be what they used to be and just feel to foreign to me. The only other car I would trust would be the Honda/Acura products, but I slightly prefer Toyota products
I personally can't wait to drive this car. I'm 95% convinced that I will love it.
Does anyone have any feedback on the non-Mark Levison sound system? I'm coming from the the Bose system in an '02 Maxima...a fairly decent unit. I've only heard one Toyota system and that was a basic unit in a Highlander...which left a LOT to be desired. Is the basic Lexus unit a JBL one? I think its 8 speakers, but I've seen nothing on watts or sound quality of the stock unit in reviews or firs hand experience.
I just saw my first 2007 ES350 commercial on TV. Very nice. I want it NOW!!!
As far as the non- Mark Levinson sound system I have not heard it yet but I did hear the non ML system in the IS and I was very impressed with it. It sounded unlike any other car system I've heard. It was like I was in a concert hall, in a set of headphones, with an excellent soundstage.
I'm very critical of sound myself, being a former sound engineer, and I was very impressed. I'm an audiophile and generally think Bose is crap. Some Bose systems sound OK but they are not convincing to me and seem like they are engineered to simulate sound, when a real audiophile system can actually create the sound.
The standard sound system in the IS was great I thought.
So I'm sure the non ML sound is very good also in the ES. Go down to the dealer and hear it for yourself if they have any in stock.
What do any of you guys think about a Hybrid Camry (TCH) versus the Lexus ES? I know that it is probably sacreligious to suggest such a comparo, but......
I woudl htink the TCH would have better acceleration than the ES. Might it also have some cool bells and whistles? Just as good a ride?
I'd like the GS450H, but that may be too rich for me. :-(
I've read some of the negative reviews from posters myself. Some of them seem like honest people who legitimately didn't like some aspect of the car and this is fine. That is why car manufacturers make so many different models.
However, many of the reviews just seem ridiculous once you've actually experienced this car. It leads me to believe that they have some kind of ulterior motive. It may be someone (maybe kids?) with too much time on their hands spilling vitriol on the internet because they can do so anonymously. It also may be someone from a competing car manufacturer who can't stand that Lexus has built a fantastic car that handles well for a sedan, has tremendous technological features and is extremely reliable at a great price. I have personally driven this car and, to me, it is one of the best car values on the road. In my opinion, you would have to spend a lot more money to buy many cars that have only a slightly better daily driving experience. I expect that most of us will be very pleased with our purchase.
But the private reviews have used these descriptions:
Slow Acceleration Sluggish Underpowered compared to the competition Poor Handling Unresponsive steering No feedback in steering (I'm not even sure what that means, I want the car to steer, I don't need resistance when I steer.) Drives like a slow cruise liner Poor Drive Boring, no excitement Very significant body roll in turns Cramped headroom Uneven shifting Poor Ergonomics
The new ES is awfully Buick-like. Actually, it looks really Camry-like. You might as well go with a Buick, which has proven to be just as reliable as Lexus despite what the Toyota PR spin has spun. Sorry folks. Spend a little more and go for the sweet RWD IS 350 if you want a Lexus that doesn't have the stigma of a rebadged Camry.
I've driven the new Camry, the new Buick LaCrosse and the Lucerne. The Camry handled much, much, much better than the Buicks. One test I did was to zip around a large parking lot making quick moves. The Buicks were like ocean liners compared to the Camry. Try to make a quick U turn in them, talk about dip and roll!
Reliability the same?!!! Now I know you don't know what you're talking about.
I believe what the last posters have said. You just don't want to like this car.
It's the same way in politics. No matter what happens, how great are economy is, (and it really is), 75% of Americans say that it is poor. See that's the REAL spin, that the economy is dying here in America but when you look at the REAL numbers it's fantastic.
Toyota is not spinning, they are simply advertising, every product claims to be the leader. I'm just not going to believe Buicks because the two I owned died at 80K miles.
I think there is a lack of honesty in these comments.
When I get my car I'll post a short review here, and then a link to a much longer one on another page about everything I think about the new ES. I'm not saying it's a perfect car, I'd like to see some other things on it. It should give up the cassette player and have more console room, or an option for a hard drive to store music.
I like quad spoke steering wheels, but this is all little stuff. If there were any big things I didn't like I would not have put my dough down on it.
Maybe those were younger people's reviews, I'm 47. I've owned a dozen American cars that all fell apart, and one Toyota Camry that still runs good after 14 years. So I do have experience with reliability.
I think DP5 is being very honest in his comments, and I believe him.
I don't know about you guys but I drive like an old man when my wife is in the car (And still get yelled at before I even leave the driveway!), and a lot more fun and quicker when I'm by myself.
I do like fast starts especially when drivers fall asleep at the light and I need to zip around them, and I think this car can do that.
But I want a really smooth driving experience also.
My old 92 Camry is fun to drive, quick in corners, but unless I really wind it up (which I do now) it lacks acceleration. With an engine twice the size I can't see how I'll call the ES "sluggish".
I'm using the Motorola phone I just bought at the Verizon store to connect to the Bluetooth feature of the ES 350 with no problem (except that it doesn't seem to be able to sync the address books), so I don't know what they're talking about regarding the ES 350 not being Verizon-compatible. :surprise:
That's one of the major reasons I bought this car. I religiously tape Howard Stern every morning (have done so for over 20 years) and listen in the car and at home in leisure not tied to any schedule. I can start and stop whenever I want and listen to the regular radio, TV (at home...lol), etc.
Tell me how else I could tape dozens of hours of this show and listen back to it conveniently.
And I supect many people still enjoy books on tape for a long drive.
Kudos to Lexus for maintaining the lowly tape player!!!
I agree. I like that it has a cassette player even though I won't use it that much now that this car has the MP3 input for the Ipod. But the one and only one thing that really bugs me about this car and should have been removed is the cigarette lighter and ashtray. That would have freed up space or could be used for something else. I applaud manufacturers who make this an optional feature for those who must have it. But it absolutely should not be there by default. I would have paid extra even to have them remove it.
You can't expect F150 truck drives like a Ferrari F430. ES is a step-up from Avalon. It is designed for drivers like the boaty feeling. Drivers who want more responsive experience need to look at GS,IS..etc.
People who buy the Lexus ES 350 are NOT looking for a boaty ride.
They are looking for a luxury car with a smooth ride, the power of a sports car, and a good deal of agility in the driving. Just because it's not a tiny sports car doesn't mean it's a Buick, old Caddy or Town Car, or an Oldsmobile 98!
I am buying this car and I DEFINITELY don't want a boat. I drove the 2007 Camry and it's nowhere near a boat, even the XLE was very sporty. Sure you don't feel every bump, and you can't take turns like a maniac, but it is NO WAY a boat.
I consider the cassette player a waste of space, it should be an OPTION, as should be the ash tray especially since less than 30% of idiots still smoke. I'll probably be tossing my keyfob in the ashtray!
I think with the elimination of the cassette player and the ash tray we could have had a nice storage cubby there.
The presence of the cassette player and the ash tray actually pisses me off.
Does anyone know if the rear view monitor is included with all navigation options or only with the navigation option that includes the Mark Levinson system?
Remember that 100 kilometers/hour is not 60mph. It's 63. So 6.8 to 60mph may be identical to 7.2 to 63. Anyway, much of this discussion about whether the ES is "fast" is pretty pointless.
I am planning on buying an ES350 in the near future. Any information that anyone has regarding discounts from MSRP that have been received on purchases or discount offers made by dealers would be very usefull to me in targeting a negotiating price. Northern NJ info would be most usefull but info from anywhere would be helpfull.
Ask for fleet manager. You get better deals. I called one of the dealers in Southern California, I was offered $1,500 off MSRP right off the bat. That's was 3 days right after ES350 came out to market.
Who knows? Maybe better deals now even, depending on the demand of the consumers. It's all about supply Vs. demand, isn't it? He said if I waited a little longer, he will give me $2,000 off MSRP. To me, that's still way too high. The mark-up from invoice is around $5,000 more or less depending on what kind of pkg you choose.
For me, at this point I'm leaning toward TL. TL has everything ES has to offer. The only downside is hookup for MP3 player is option. Everything else is standard. Benz C350 was offering $6 K below INVOICE as of 4/30/05. That makes $6-10 k cheaper than ES.
I still like ES. Don't get me wrong. If I can get around invoice or 1 k over invoice, I'm all ears.
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Comments
The production line was probably out of one component required for the rain sensitive wipers.
i've been scratching my head about the lexus es 350 options.didn't they make it confusing.
if i keep all the top end options, it costs me about $43k. that makes me to think,if i spend a couple of more thousands, i could get acura RL , which they have it standard.
(i've read posts on acura RL where people bought a new RL for $43k)
what do you people think?
voice your opinion people, some one from lexus will be watching this forum and at least for the next model year they will make it simple.
:confuse:
I think ES350 was way over hyped by Lexus. If demand is less than expected, which will be the case in my opinion, you will be better off waiting a couple more months.
C'mon, you will get better deal on Volvo S80, Acura TL or RL, Benz C350. Basically this is where I'm at waiting to see which gives me the best bang for my bucks. I can get '06 C350 w/ Nav under $33,000. Now TL w/ Nav under $32,000? Why would I fork out over $40 for entry level Lexus 350?
Good luck
Acura is a darn nice car but it drives too firm for me, I want comfort. You want a sportier drive then go for it.
The Lexus also has cooled seats. I'm not a fan of leather, I think it gets too hot, and the cooled seats will make the leather bearable for me.
2 months ago the timing chain snapped on my 92 Camry after 165K miles. The tow truck driver mentioned to me that he almost never gets Toyota's on the hook.
I asked him about some other cars and his answers were: Nissan, ALL the time, Honda/Acura, not so much but it does happen, far less than American cars. Toyota, very rare and his last answer stunned me, Lexus NEVER, not in 10 years of tow truck driving everyday.
I thought that was impressive.
My dealer finally got a ES in for me to test drive today. But because of my heart surgery I told him I would be out of commission for about 2 more weeks. Bummer. Finally it comes in and I can't try it out:(
I'm not worrying about the looks which I think are just fine. The Camry is only a bit ugly with that fugly grill which the Lexus is without.
I thought the new Camry drove fine, no surprises. I just don't want the ES to drive as "boaty" as the Avalon seems to.
But I did drive a Buick LaCrosse the same day I drove the Avalon and the difference is clear, even the LaCrosse has a much more boatier feel, and not nearly the engine power.
For me the ES is about ultimate comfort, yet with enough engine power to pull away from almost anybody at a light within reason.
If you want a car to drive like a Porsche with that speed and feel, and you need to be a nut who changes 6 lanes back and forth in 20 seconds, then go buy a Porsche, or a BMW, or a Lexus IS.
But if you want a smoother ride that still has a great deal of power then the ES is a great choice. I read one review that said the ES 350 really, really, REALLY wants to be a sports car but is simply a tight, smooth riding, fast luxury car.
That sounds good to me.
Maybe my expectations were too high......the drive is very flat with no feel and lag in the acceleration. Interiors are not very spacious (my head was bumping in the roof in the back seat). I would have bought it were it selling with the top end options for 33-34k.
It is quiet and refined like a lexus, and has a lot of tech options...but it does not compete with cars in the 43k range...Infiniti M, 5 series, RL are all much better cars.
I agree with posts above.....no point buying this at MSRP..let the price come closer to the real value.
So what do you guys who have bought have to say?
Is the steering too soft and the ride too mushy? Does it drive like a boat?
Does the acceleration lag?
Since I ordered one, without driving it I am slightly worried about these issues.
But my dealer told me if I really didn't like the car when it came in I could use the deposit on a new IS if I wanted a tighter, sportier ride.
But when I drove the IS, I found it to be just a little firm for me, and a little too cramped in the cabin, but I could live with it and overall I liked the car. But I choose the ES because I wanted a bit more space inside and a smoother ride.
I drove the new 2007 Camry, who's platform the ES is on and I didn't find it too large or boaty, or unweildly at all, even though the ES is slightly bit heavier.
But surprisingly the 200HP IS I drove was about the same weight as the ES, about 3500 pounds give or take a 100.
So I figure if the cars are similar in weight, and the ES will have 70 more HP, it should be a faster accelerating car.
In no way did I think the IS was slow or sluggish. In fact the dealer let me take it out by myself and I thought I was driving the 306 HP model when in fact it turns out I was driving the 204 HP model.
To be honest, I'm no judge of acceleration anymore because my 92 camry, with it's measly 140 HP engine seems like it takes 10-12 seconds to get to 60 MPH. So almost every newer car seems much faster to me.
That being said I was still very impressed by the IS, and I have no problem with that level of acceleration. But if I were to change my mind and get it I might just go for that 304 HP engine.
But then again I don't know. Years ago when I delivered pizza one of the old Nova's we had blew it's engine. The garage didn't have a regular engine to put in it, so they put in something like a 455 HP engine that I think came out of a Vette!
The damn thing was a rocket, but it's suspension or brakes could not handle the power, and I almost killed myself in that car!
Anyway how do you guys who have bought the car think of the handling, feel, and acceleration of the new ES350?
You won't be disappointed with the acceleation. It is enough to satisfy all but the most avid of sports car enthusiasts. It will push you back into the seat and keep you there for a few seconds when you really step on it.
I was impressed enough with the car that I am getting one as soon as I can choose the color. Because I want the ultraluxury and they are somewhat rare right now, I might have to wait a couple of months to get the car that I want. I was pleased enough with the test drive that I'm excited about the car and anxious to get one. Hope your experience is similar.
The new ES is a much better car.....but 12k difference feels a bit steep
Much to my amazement they told me that there were none and that only Cingular or T-Mobile phones would work with their bluetooth system!!!???
They gotta be kidding.
Over half the damn country uses Verizon. Guess why? It's the best (by far) carrier. And these rocket scientists can't design a car that works with the carrier that half the United Staes uses???
So is the point that I may have to go with a vastly inferior service provider just to use the bluetooth capability of the car?
And I thought bluetooth was a standardized technology.
Does anyone have any idea what's up here?
That's what I did. I leased a new RL for net cap price of $43K, $600 a month plus tax for 36 months/12K a year. I was going to look at the new ES first, but the UL package is needed to make the ES comparable to the RL. That made the price too close for me to pass up the RL. I added the review camera for only $450. I'll look at the ES again in three years.
Len
Because there are so many who have labeled this car with so many negative things you begin to second guess yourself.
As far as the pro reviews I haven't seen much negativity at all.
But the private reviews have used these descriptions:
Slow Acceleration
Sluggish
Underpowered compared to the competition
Poor Handling
Unresponsive steering
No feedback in steering (I'm not even sure what that means, I want the car to steer, I don't need resistance when I steer.)
Drives like a slow cruise liner
Poor Drive
Boring, no excitement
Very significant body roll in turns
Cramped headroom
Uneven shifting
Poor Ergonomics
Many of these people have said that the ES can't measure up to Infiniti, Acura, Audi, Jaguar, or Mercedes for the same price.
I think these people may be nuts myself.
One thing I know for sure is that Lexus/Toyota have a great reliability factor, more so than ANY of those other cars. Because I know people who have problems with ALL those brands of cars I listed.
You could not give me an Audi, or to me an ugly Infiniti. Jaguars live in the shop, Mercedes don't seem to be what they used to be and just feel to foreign to me.
The only other car I would trust would be the Honda/Acura products, but I slightly prefer Toyota products
I personally can't wait to drive this car.
I'm 95% convinced that I will love it.
As far as the non- Mark Levinson sound system I have not heard it yet but I did hear the non ML system in the IS and I was very impressed with it. It sounded unlike any other car system I've heard. It was like I was in a concert hall, in a set of headphones, with an excellent soundstage.
I'm very critical of sound myself, being a former sound engineer, and I was very impressed. I'm an audiophile and generally think Bose is crap. Some Bose systems sound OK but they are not convincing to me and seem like they are engineered to simulate sound, when a real audiophile system can actually create the sound.
The standard sound system in the IS was great I thought.
So I'm sure the non ML sound is very good also in the ES.
Go down to the dealer and hear it for yourself if they have any in stock.
I woudl htink the TCH would have better acceleration than the ES. Might it also have some cool bells and whistles? Just as good a ride?
I'd like the GS450H, but that may be too rich for me. :-(
I've read some of the negative reviews from posters myself. Some of them seem like honest people who legitimately didn't like some aspect of the car and this is fine. That is why car manufacturers make so many different models.
However, many of the reviews just seem ridiculous once you've actually experienced this car. It leads me to believe that they have some kind of ulterior motive. It may be someone (maybe kids?) with too much time on their hands spilling vitriol on the internet because they can do so anonymously. It also may be someone from a competing car manufacturer who can't stand that Lexus has built a fantastic car that handles well for a sedan, has tremendous technological features and is extremely reliable at a great price. I have personally driven this car and, to me, it is one of the best car values on the road. In my opinion, you would have to spend a lot more money to buy many cars that have only a slightly better daily driving experience. I expect that most of us will be very pleased with our purchase.
Slow Acceleration
Sluggish
Underpowered compared to the competition
Poor Handling
Unresponsive steering
No feedback in steering (I'm not even sure what that means, I want the car to steer, I don't need resistance when I steer.)
Drives like a slow cruise liner
Poor Drive
Boring, no excitement
Very significant body roll in turns
Cramped headroom
Uneven shifting
Poor Ergonomics
The new ES is awfully Buick-like. Actually, it looks really Camry-like. You might as well go with a Buick, which has proven to be just as reliable as Lexus despite what the Toyota PR spin has spun. Sorry folks. Spend a little more and go for the sweet RWD IS 350 if you want a Lexus that doesn't have the stigma of a rebadged Camry.
I've driven the new Camry, the new Buick LaCrosse and the Lucerne. The Camry handled much, much, much better than the Buicks. One test I did was to zip around a large parking lot making quick moves. The Buicks were like ocean liners compared to the Camry.
Try to make a quick U turn in them, talk about dip and roll!
Reliability the same?!!!
Now I know you don't know what you're talking about.
I believe what the last posters have said. You just don't want to like this car.
It's the same way in politics. No matter what happens, how great are economy is, (and it really is), 75% of Americans say that it is poor. See that's the REAL spin, that the economy is dying here in America but when you look at the REAL numbers it's fantastic.
Toyota is not spinning, they are simply advertising, every product claims to be the leader. I'm just not going to believe Buicks because the two I owned died at 80K miles.
I think there is a lack of honesty in these comments.
When I get my car I'll post a short review here, and then a link to a much longer one on another page about everything I think about the new ES.
I'm not saying it's a perfect car, I'd like to see some other things on it. It should give up the cassette player and have more console room, or an option for a hard drive to store music.
I like quad spoke steering wheels, but this is all little stuff. If there were any big things I didn't like I would not have put my dough down on it.
Maybe those were younger people's reviews, I'm 47. I've owned a dozen American cars that all fell apart, and one Toyota Camry that still runs good after 14 years.
So I do have experience with reliability.
I think DP5 is being very honest in his comments, and I believe him.
I don't know about you guys but I drive like an old man when my wife is in the car (And still get yelled at before I even leave the driveway!), and a lot more fun and quicker when I'm by myself.
I do like fast starts especially when drivers fall asleep at the light and I need to zip around them, and I think this car can do that.
But I want a really smooth driving experience also.
My old 92 Camry is fun to drive, quick in corners, but unless I really wind it up (which I do now) it lacks acceleration. With an engine twice the size I can't see how I'll call the ES "sluggish".
Are you kidding?
That's one of the major reasons I bought this car. I religiously tape Howard Stern every morning (have done so for over 20 years) and listen in the car and at home in leisure not tied to any schedule. I can start and stop whenever I want and listen to the regular radio, TV (at home...lol), etc.
Tell me how else I could tape dozens of hours of this show and listen back to it conveniently.
And I supect many people still enjoy books on tape for a long drive.
Kudos to Lexus for maintaining the lowly tape player!!!
:P
ES is a step-up from Avalon. It is designed for drivers like the boaty feeling. Drivers who want more responsive experience need to look at GS,IS..etc.
Well said. My wife is addicted to audio books borrowed from our library, which hasn't yet made the switch from tape to digital media.
They are looking for a luxury car with a smooth ride, the power of a sports car, and a good deal of agility in the driving. Just because it's not a tiny sports car doesn't mean it's a Buick, old Caddy or Town Car, or an Oldsmobile 98!
I am buying this car and I DEFINITELY don't want a boat.
I drove the 2007 Camry and it's nowhere near a boat, even the XLE was very sporty. Sure you don't feel every bump, and you can't take turns like a maniac, but it is NO WAY a boat.
I consider the cassette player a waste of space, it should be an OPTION, as should be the ash tray especially since less than 30% of idiots still smoke.
I'll probably be tossing my keyfob in the ashtray!
I think with the elimination of the cassette player and the ash tray we could have had a nice storage cubby there.
The presence of the cassette player and the ash tray actually pisses me off.
Not quite. It's actually 62.14. Therefore, 6.8 to 60mph is 7.04 to 62.14.
Who knows? Maybe better deals now even, depending on the demand of the consumers. It's all about supply Vs. demand, isn't it? He said if I waited a little longer, he will give me $2,000 off MSRP. To me, that's still way too high. The mark-up from invoice is around $5,000 more or less depending on what kind of pkg you choose.
For me, at this point I'm leaning toward TL. TL has everything ES has to offer. The only downside is hookup for MP3 player is option. Everything else is standard.
Benz C350 was offering $6 K below INVOICE as of 4/30/05. That makes $6-10 k cheaper than ES.
I still like ES. Don't get me wrong. If I can get around invoice or 1 k over invoice, I'm all ears.
Good luck