Lexus ES 350

ggesq

True: The ES 350 is great combination of horsepower, reliability, luxury....BUT a true- "driver's" car, it is not.

"True sport/sedan feel and driving pleasure" is not amorphous. It is a real sensation when driving certain vehicles; albeit it is different from driver to driver and vehicle to vehicle but at the very least can be easily illustrated from driving a FWD vs. RWD vehicle.

Sorry, but there are not many Lexus models out there for people who want a "sport" feel.
Some people out there are willing to forego all the advantages that Lexus offers for a sport feel and are willing to pay extra $$ (BMW, Mercedes, Audi...) for it too.

The ES is a great vehicle for certain individuals, NOT all.

bartalk3

I don't know what you're unmentionable web site is, but it certainly looks authentic, and you got a real scoop here before official prices are announced.

The way you have it, one possible factory combination is the Premium Plus Package with the NAV, without having to get the ML as well.

tds1

I mostly agree with you. I don't think that the ES350 (or any prior ES) has ever been intended to be a sports sedan. My opinion is that Lexus has always been more on the luxury side of the equation (regardless of model), like Mercedes. On the other hand, Acura has been more to the sport side of things, like BMW. However, I do think that over the years Lexus has come extremely close to matching, and in many ways, surpassing Mercedes in luxury while Acura has never mastered "sport" the way that BMW has.

So, like anything else, it depends what you think makes a car a "true" drivers car. Sport or luxury? Many cars don't do both well.

bartalk3

Lexus has never claimed the ES is a sporty car. Those who want a sporty Lexus can choose the IS or even the GS. On the other hand, from the early reviews of the new Camry and the ES, the most recent generation is a lot tighter and sportier than earlier generations. That's not to say it's a BMW fighter, but the steering and handling may be better than previous generations, and, at least we hope, the car won't roll and lean on turns quite as much as its predecessors. On the luxury side, Lexus has obviously crammed almost every conceivable luxury option into the new 350, to distinguish it from the Camry, which itself can be pretty loaded up. Of course, one of the things you'll have to pass up if you get the ES350 vs. the new LS460, is a bar in the back seat. Can we do without that?

pimp_dog_179

on lexus.ca they have the prices up ... base model is at 42 900$
The Premium Package goes for 3 600$
The Ultra Premium Package is at 11 400$
For Canadians this is quite a jump from these two packages and there are only two of them .... You cannot have the Navi. as a single option and same thing for the Mark Levinson stereo. Leather is standard but if you really want the whole list check out the website.
Paint colours and leather seating colours are up two ... so check em out.
It's a real bummer that there are only two packages ... thats what sucks between the US and Canadian Auto marketing. Canadians get the shaft. Sucks to be us sometimes.
*Keep in mind the prices are in canadian dollars*

bobob20032000

2006 Lexus ES 330 - $32,995
2007 Lexus ES 350 - $33,170

Increase of $175

I got different prices.

jaxs1

Is leather extra cost on the 2006? It is on the 2007 and you won't find one without it anway, so you might as well add in that cost.

psychdoc

That's one thing I've always respected about Acura.

The lack of stupid options that just run the price up. Typically, their only option is a nav system for $2k. Other than that the car is the car.

Lexus annoys me with their "option" packages. Most buyers want pretty much every option anyway and they bundle them so badly that if there is one you want and one you don't you can never find them unbundled.

I gotta tell you, as much of a Lexus fan as I am, that's a huge turn-off.

:mad:

billp8

...I agree, it's not the best system. I do recall reading in one Lexus board (maybe the LS 400) that you can special order, and that it is best to do so early in the model year. (Interestingly, I read an article in last Friday's Washington Post which discussed Toyota, including the fact that in the Japanese market, its cars are built to customer order).

pimp_dog_179

my prices are in canadian... or were you talking about the fact that 2007 is 175 more than 2006 ??? in canada ES 330 base price is 39 950 and ES 350 is 42 900 ...

tds1

I agree. I would have already bought a GS except the sunroof interferes with the front headroom. Personally I don't need a sunroof - but there was not a single GS in the entire Midwest without one. So, the real question is how they choose to bundle the options on ES350. We probably won't know what the real combinations are until they hit the actual lots. However, I am sure they will include more options than I want!

bartalk3

Sunroof is standard, I believe. Even if it isn't, they will all come equipped that way. And BTW, headroom in the new ES is about the same as in the GS. I sat in them both last week at the midwest auto show, and that was my impression, and the stats seem to confirm it.

dp5

I went to the dealership today to look at their allocation of cars and choose the car that I want. I want the fully loaded UL package that includes Nav, ML, etc. The dealership showed me the allocation of cars for our 18 state area and, of the approximately 770 cars coming in the April shipment, only 35 are fully equipped. The only two coming to our dealership were the dark grey exterior w/ light grey interior or a black exterior w/ cashmere interior. I'm sure both will be beautiful but I'm partial to the cashmere interior and would prefer a lighter color exterior so I don't have to work as hard to keep it looking clean. I may wait for a month or two and see if something pops up that matches my criteria but I REALLY wanted to take delivery of the car next week. If I decide to buy one of the two available, I'll post pictures and let you know how it went. The price was right around $44K before satellite radio, etc

bartalk3

35 out of 770 cars are fully loaded, that's less than 5%. Depending on the car you want, that's either good news or bad news. For those who don't want to spend an additional $4,000 on ML and the extra sun roof, it's good. For those who want everything, it means you'll have to wait awhile or compromise on color, etc.

bartalk3

dp5 May I ask what part of the country you're in, where those 770 cars are going to land?

Thanks.

dp5

I'm in Houston, Texas. The dealership said that the cars were due on 04/22. Obviously, Texas is one of the 18 states but I don't know what the entire region consists of. Maybe the Southwest? The dealership also told me that they should have some cars that could not be sold but would be used as demos sometime later this week. From what he showed me, there are three different option packages and that is consistent with previous information posted on this forum. The allocation of cars was as follows: 70% least optioned package, 25% middle package, 5% UL w/ Mark Levinson, PA, etc. He said that this was expected since they sell so many of the least expensive cars. Kind of dissapointing for me, though, since I am ready to buy a car. I'd rather have the higher option package and compromise on color if necessary but I'd like to have the color and option packages of my choice. Even if I have to compromise on colors, I'm sure it will be fine. I've thoroughly enjoyed my current 2000 ES and this one looks head and shoulders above the car that I have now.

tds1

I know the stats are similar - but - My brief time sitting in the two was different. I was able to find a seating position in the ES350 where headroom wasn't an issue. I couldn't do that in the GS. Why? I have no idea. Will have to wait until I can demo one to confirm...

mikegiller

I don't understand. I am new to the ordering cars scenario. Why can't you walk into the dealership, tell them which car you want, and then have them order one for you? Say, if I wanted an IS 250 sport package with glacier frost mica paint and black interior, couldn't I have them order one? I wouldn't care if I waited. Is the wait the big concern for people, or the fact that they don't order like that. For such a large purchase, they better give you what you want...

dp5

You can walk into the dealershiop and special order a car. However, since this car is so new and they are selling everything they can ship, I suspect that it would take a few months to get your car. I have postponed buying a car for a year waiting for this car to come out so I am anxious to purchase one. However, if I can't find a color/option combination that I'm happy with, I may just order one and wait.

bartalk3

Whether you can factory-order a car depends...on the car. Probably most BMW buyers order from the factory and specify exactly what they want.

With other cars, it's not so simple. Many Lexus dealers will tell you they can't order cars, but will try to trade with another dealer to get what you want. Even dealers who say you can order one usually try to discourage it. Maybe it's more work for them, or they just want to sell what they've got. The best Lexus dealers will be straight with you and say they will order it for you, but be prepared to wait 90-120 days.

psychdoc

Short answer...nowhere.

It's small, cramped, underpowered and entirely uninspiring. It doesn't have anywhere near as many bells and whistles as the new ES and is not as sprty as the IS.

Now add to this losing formula that it's ugly as sin and looks like a hatchback and what do you have?

"L-O-S-E-R"

Lexus should just admit it took a shot and missed.They missed miserably and they should go back to the drawing boards with this disaster.

This car is a serious mistake.

es350

On April 9th, 2006, The Es350 was released in Jeju, the island of Korea. I think it's the first place to sell in the world. (Maybe it's because Korea is the second place where lexus sells the most next to the U.S.,also Is250 was first released in Korea first too...) Here is site that has some pictures of ES350 released in Jeju... http://www.global-autonews.com/content/content_view.php3?menu_id=97&id=29927

bartalk3

I disagree. The GS has as many bells and whistles as the ES350 (except a second sun roof, which is a gimmick, and the 350 engine which is coming). Can you name one other feature the ES has that the GS lacks? Also, it's not much smaller than the ES inside, though, granted, the trunk is considerably smaller. The GS430 has great power, and even the GS300 has more power than its predecessor and than the ES330. And in the fall Lexus will replace it with the GS350, with the same engine as the ES but more horsepower (306). And, of course, it corners and handles better than the ES. And also, it can be had with AWD, if that's your cup of tea. Of course, it's a little more expensive than the ES, even with the new ES selling at first for sticker and the GS discounted $2,000-3,000. I also think Consumer Reports gave the GS a bad rap, partly because they didn't like the drop down drawer for auxilliary controls (a very minor issue).

gohawaiian

I had a chance to sit in the ES350, 2007 Camry XLE and 2006 Avalon Limited at the car show in Honolulu last weekend. Admittedly, it's a matter of personal taste, but for my money, the ES350's interior came in third. It seemed cold, stark, and "bare bones" to me. I found both the Avalon Limited and Camry XLE interiors much warmer & inviting & visually interesting - and this despite the fact that they both apparently use simulated (but very realistic) wood grain trim rather than real wood. Anyone else similarly disappointed in the ES350 interior?

bartalk3

I for one can't stand the fake yellow plastic/wood that's used in the '07 Camry and, I think, in the Avalon. To me, Lexus interiors can't be beat (possibly matched by Audi, but not beat).

tds1

You can special order the car but it may not be easy. First problem I found with the GS is they wouldn't discount the special order, despite the fact they were discounting floor cars. Also, if you order a combo that is unpopular (such as no sunroof) they probably correctly warned that I was destroying its resale value. But overall, I think biggest problem of special order (other than wait) is getting a discount - though that will not be an issue for a while on ES350.

pojoe

I was just told by my dealer after ordering the car 2 months ago that I would probably get delivery by the end of the month with the ultra pkg for 43489.00.Excluding tax and license. What do you guys think? The exact color that I wanted. :

bartalk3

Is that the sticker price, or is he giving something off it? What are you located, by the way (what city)?

pojoe

500.00 discount. I live near Los Angeles. The car is at Longo Lexus,El Monte Calif.They are not discounting at all but I got a 500.00 discount thru AAA. I ordered mine 2 months ago. Also I bought my 2002 there off of the same salesman. Cash deal

dp5

I plan on buying mine as soon as I can find a car with the options & colors that I want. I expected to pay MSRP but I am a AAA member. Do all dealers give a $500 discount to AAA members? If so, I owe you dinner because you just saved me $500.

bartalk3

Longo Lexus discounts their cars probably more than any other Lexus dealer in the country. If they're selling the 350 basically for sticker, that's it.

pojoe

When i bought my 2002 thru AAA I got 1500.00 discount but I bought It In Feb.of 2003.Go to the AAA web site and start there .Let them make the deal for you.They will set you up with the fleet mgr. No haggle price.

tds1

That's interesting idea. I wonder if the Costco buying program would allow you to get a discount sooner on this car.

goodyrl

Will there be any discounts on the first batch of ES350s? My dealer has some PTs (Premium Plus Pkg) with the wood & leather steering option that will list for $36,909 with freight. How much can I ask for/expect to get off? Are there AAA, AARP, Costco or any other discounts anyone knows of? Thanks

dotbowels

Is 91 octane unleaded a must?

"ENGINE Type, Materials V6 aluminum block and cylinder heads Designation 2GR-FE Valvetrain DOHC 24-valve with dual Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (VVT-i) Displacement 3.5 liter Bore x Stroke 3.70 in. x 3.27 in. Compression Ratio 10:8:1 Horsepower (SAE) 272 hp @ 6,200 rpm Torque 254 lb.-ft. @ 4,700 rpm Maximum Engine Speed (redline) 6,400 rpm Fuel System Electronically controlled sequential fuel injection (SFI) Fuel Requirement Premium 91 octane unleaded for optimum performance Emission Certification ULEV-II DRIVETRAIN Layout Front engine, front-wheel drive Transmission Type 6-speed automatic, Electronically Controlled Transmission with intelligence (ECT-i) and sequential shift Designation U660E Gear Ratios 1st3.300 2nd1.900 3rd1.421 4th1.000 5th0.713 6th0.609 Reverse 4.148 Final Drive Ratio 3.685"

bartalk3

The Camry has the exact same engine, with slightly less horsepower (268), and 87 octane is the recommended fuel.

nedb52

Kelly Blue Book (www.kbb.com)has the the ES350 prices posted

bartalk3

nedb52: Thanks for the heads up on the ES350 pricing on Kelly. Buyers can finally begin putting things together. What's a bit confusing is that the price for the premium pack and the premium plus are good only for April and will be changed as of May. In other words, immediately. What does that mean--that Lexus, sensing a big demand, is raising prices already, or what? Or are they just requiring that rear air bags be purchased along with the premium packs--another $250? Who knows? Lexus is so popular they can pretty much call the shots and their fans will open their wallets.

nedb52

bartalk3; My guess is Lexus wants early buyers to think that they shouldn't feel too bad about paying MSRP. Because, in May, Lexus will be raising prices anyway. Sooooo.... from their POV the buyers will/should reason ...there is really no advantage for waiting a few months when one might expect that Lexus dealers will be willing to deal off of MSRP. Especially, if you are trying to unload a used car, which will most likely drop in value. I'd say they are shrewd marketers!!!!

ljk1000

Had to have a car in Feb, so bought the 06 Diamond edition, discounted. I could kick myself for not renting a car for 2 months, but the dealer said there were no promises on dates, it might be summer. (Think he wanted a sale?)

Anyone got ideas on the best way to get into the 07? I realize more $$ is involved, but I'm willing to do that, to a point. I absolutely HATE the cupholders on the 330.

jaxs1

If the cupholders in the 2006 are annoying, then just buy a new 2007 ES350 and sell the ES330 if you wish.

tds1

If you plan on selling, I would have to think that the sooner you sell the better. I am sure there are still plenty of people unaware that the 07 will be here in a couple weeks.

jchan2

Sell the ES330 Diamond Edition now while there might be someone who knows nothing about an ES350 coming out.

Then head down to Enterprise and rent a car, and after you rent that car, drive directly to your Lexus dealer to place an order.

dandydon2

I suggest that you offer $1,000 - $1,500 below MSRP and see what he says. It's much easier to raise you bid than lower it. You'll get a better price after the backlog of initial buyers is satisfied; probably in 2-3 months. Sure, these are nice new cars - but it won't always be a seller's market.

bartalk3

Great idea. Unload the car on some poor sap who doesn't know a new model's coming out next week. While you're at it, why don't you roll the odometer back to zero and tell him it's a brand new car? I'd love to see the look on the poor guy's face the first time he sees an ad for the 350 and realizes his car is now worth $10,000 less than it was five days ago. (To be on the safe side, though, perhaps you ought to change your phone number and maybe even relocate for a few months.)

jchan2

Yea this idea is a little shady...

Perhaps the poster should sell it to someone who doesn't mind driving the outdated model.

Or someone who is looking for a Black Diamond Edition...

jaxs1

There is nothing shady about it. What are the dealers doing when they sell '06s?
Not everyone wants to pay the price premium for an '07.
The car can't sell for more than a buyer is willing to pay, so just sell it.

bartalk3

"There is nothing shady about it. What are the dealers doing when they sell 'o6s?"

Everybody expects car salesmen to be sleazy. They have to be. It's built into their DNA. That's why car salesmen have the reputation they do. But the rest of us can be more ethical, especially around Easter or Mother's Day or Take Your Grandmother to Work Day.

Kirstie_H

Any chance we could avoid slamming every member of an entire profession here? I doubt most of you would appreciate your professional reputation being slammed in a sweeping generalization. Thanks.

dvt56

Does anyone know anything about Invisishield. It's a dealer option that goes over the front of the hood area, and the mirrors. Seems logical, but I've never heard of it before. Any info