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Lexus ES 350

jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
edited October 2014 in Lexus
Any information on the next generation Lexus ES, which will be the last ES to share a platform with the Camry, according to what've heard on a few other boards.
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Comments

  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    The next generation ES will have the 3.5L V6 engine from the Avalon. Lexus has already patented the ES 350 name. The question is whether horsepower will stay at 280 like the Avalon or will be bumped up to 300 or more like the upcoming IS350. One way to distinguish the 350 from the Avy is to give it a higher HP engine. Also, expect a new 6 speed auto to replace the current 5 speed auto.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Any pictures?
  • kmg68kmg68 Posts: 108
    Does anyone know whether they are still planning to release the MY2007 in Spring of 2006? I have been looking for more information on this but can't find it anywhere.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    As usual, Lexus is hush-hush about this car....

    Hopefully we'll find out SOMETHING before the last minute...
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    I think a Spring 06 release is very likely. I expect there would be a short production run for the 06 MY with the all new 07 being released sometime in March or April of next year. I don't think Lexus ES wants to be inferior to the Avalon for much longer.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I doubt it will come in spring 2006. The ES has always been on full 5-year production run and new generations have always hit showrooms in August to September of the year. Plus, the current ES330 is selling well anyway, so there is really no alarm bells like with the GS that would lead them to bring out a new ES in the spring.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    As in the stock market, I dont know that the past is an indicator of future performance. Sure, the ES has always been on a full 5 year production run, but so was the Avalon. And the Corolla for the past several generations. (The Sienna also didnt do Toyota's typical 5 year cycle). Plus, it has already leaked that the next Camry will arrive by March of 2006 due to the extremely competitive landscape. If thats the case, which I believe it is, why would Toyota choose to run two generations of Camry and ES concurrently. So for me personally, I think its more likely than not that the next ES will arrive in the Spring/Summer 06 timeframe.

    ~alpha
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I am likewise thinking Spring 06. Toyota usually releases its vehicles in the spring, no? Just in time for people to be paying off their Christmas debts :)
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Toyota would probably not have two generations of Camry/ES running at the same time, so whenever the new Camry comes out, I expect the new ES to come out too, which points to a Spring 2006 introduction.
  • asawasaw Posts: 54
    Does anybody have pictures of this soon to be released model?
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Posts: 729
    But the ONLY reason it will come out early is to clear the field for the new LS in Fall of 06.

    If they came out at the same time, that would cripple the ES, and would not help the LS either, so the release will be early.

    I wouldn't wait up for a 300Hp FWD ES, with a 240HP GS above it.

    An AWD Hybrid with 300HP for '08-09 is a real possibility.

    DrFill
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I'm guessing the ES330 will get around 240-255 horsepower. Past generations of the ES have never promoted horsepower but instead promoted luxury, a smooth ride, and a very serene driving experience.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    I doubt the next Lexus will have less than the 280 Hp of the Avalon. The Avalon is also FWD with virtually no torque steer. Remember, the Avalon's 260 lb-ft of torque comes at 4700 rpm. This is a smooth relatively high revving engine that can produce 280+ Hp without losing any quietness or smoothness. The 3.5L V6 is smoother and more refined than the current 3.3L engine.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Does ANYBODY have pictures of this car?
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    That Japanese MagX website had a shot of the rear end. It has the new Lexus look with the narrow IS style tail lights. It's not on their front page anymore, so I think you might have to have a password to get more info/pics, or at least know Japanese in order to navigate the site to the archives where that one picture might be.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    that Toyota has trademarked the 'ES350' badge for the Lexus brand, so I think the next ES will most certainly be using that engine.

    ~alpha
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I think its almost definite. It's just a matter of how much horsepower now...
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    The way I see it, Lexus really has two tiers of cars: the ones for those who want a sportier driving experience, and the ones for those who, well, don't!

    The ES is postioned so when and if people get more money, they can move up to the similar oh so smooth driving experience of the LS. The same goes for the IS and GS. That way, Lexus can keep more drivers in the Lexus fold. And if these people have families: RX or GX! And if they have children or guests with no legs: SC! And if they want a big ol' SUV, there's always the LX.

    I'm sure that the ES will have the same if not more hp ratings as the Avalon. Otherwise, people would just buy the Avalon.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    The ES and Avalon have a different target audience. The Avalon is a full sized sedan while the ES is a midsize.

    Also, the ES has the prestige of the slanted L badge, and the great customer service that goes with it. People are willing to pay a premium for that L badge.

    Toyota, on the otherhand, has some dealers that treat customers pretty poorly and the buying process is always as enjoyable as getting a root canal.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    Well, the fact is that people are bound to notice that:
    a) the new Avalon is almost as cushy as an ES
    b) cheaper
    c) handles better

    """The ES and Avalon have a different target audience. The Avalon is a full sized sedan while the ES is a midsize""

    Target audiences are different? That's like saying that the T&C and DGC have different target audiences. Size doesn't mean too terribly much. "Target Audience" is a phrase sometimes used by auto manfacturers to tell people who they would like to buy that car. However, the world that realy people live in and the world of "Target Audiences" is fairly different.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Many people are willing to pay a premium for the Lexus badge, and for them, the ES is there.
    An Avalon costs just about as much as an ES nowadays...

    It'll probably have more than 280 horsepower though...

    Who needs that much horsepower anyways? 255 horsepower is plenty enough for me, and my car is heavier and longer than the ES... (albeit shorter than the Avalon)
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Its not a matter of "need."

    Honestly though, why not 280 horses? Id bemoan a different song if there was an efficiency drop since the last generation, but the EPA ratings have gone up 3 to 4 MPG on the city and highway cycles for the Avalon. If the consumer can have that, and another 70 horses to boot, why not?

    The Avalon may cost as much fully loaded as the current ES, but it actually has several features not available on that model, and its model range extends down some 7 grand below where the ES starts. Theres still enough differentation in size, price, customer service, and prestige that I dont really see either cannabalizing the other's sales directly.

    -my take

    alpha
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Theres still enough differentation in size, price, customer service, and prestige that I dont really see either cannabalizing the other's sales directly.

    I agree. The current ES330 is selling briskly despite having only 225 horsepower compared to the Avalon.
  • asawasaw Posts: 54
    Anybody has any news on the ES350?

    I'm deciding between the new ES350 and the new IS250/350.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I haven't heard anything about the ES, but it won't be out until '07 at the earliest.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I guess Lexus is typical Lexus- they won't tell us ANYTHING about the car until six months before debut, when they'll show it at an autoshow, and then they'll release just pictures. Full details, including specifications, pricing, and options probably won't be available until a week or so before launch.
  • asawasaw Posts: 54
    I thought the 07 Camry is out in Spring 06, and the 07 ES350 should be arriving around the same time?
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    The ES really has to get more hp to compete with the Avalon. The new Avalon is a hot car in spite of not having the Lexus badge. I believe it's the best bargain on the market, by far. Consumer Reports claims it's a good alternative to full size lux models.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I'm expecting the ES to be smaller than the Avalon, and possibly less powerful. Why? Because the ES sits in a weird market position. It's the entry evel luxury market, and it doesn't compete against similarly priced cars like the BMW 3 or the Audi A4 because it isn't sporty at all. They need to keep that image. As boring as it may seem, that is why they sell so many. They are comfortable cars, and they are true Lexus luxury for a relatively low price.
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    You're right about the ES being in a weird market position. It's more of a quiet, refined luxury car. Therefore it's competitors are the Zephyr and C Class.

    Lexus shouldn't make the next ES lose its character, which is being quiet, luxurious and refined all around. Lexus has the IS300 to fight BMW 3 series, A4s, CTS, G35.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    truely is unique. It's a comfortable cruiser in a sea of "performance" models.

    Basically the only comfortable cruisers in its price range would be:

    Lincoln Zephyr
    Mercedes-Benz C-Class

    Back in 2004 you could have added the Infiniti I35 to the list, but Infiniti axed it...
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    And the good news for Lexus is they have the ES330 as the quiet cruiser, and the IS350 as the performance sedan.

    Rumour has it that Mercedes is planning to build a four door coupe (think CTS) on the C Class platform. The picture I saw was pretty nice, but then so was the upcoming C Class. Heard the new coupe would be called the CLE or CLX.
  • vetfannyvetfanny Posts: 11
    I was set on an Avalon Limited until I looked at it and drove it.
    The engine was not very smooth and the ride was so so.
    The interior is like a Buick product, cheap looking.
    THe passenger front seat is typical Toyota...not comfortable.

    After driving my neighbors ES330...the only thing holding me back is the HP and it's a shade smaller than I like. I currently drive an Acura RL
  • caliddcalidd Posts: 60
    Has anyone spotted a sneak preview of the next generation ES? I saw a photo of a Lexus super coupe that is actually a 4-door coupe. It was touted as aimed at the BMW 6-series--like it might be a new model--but I'm hoping, instead, that it's actually the next ES. If Lexus doesn't return to the coupe-look of the 95 with the sloping c-pillar, I'll probably look for another car that combines "coupe look" and "comfortable (and quiet) cruiser" elements.

    Meanwhile, photo anyone?
  • I think we are looking at the wrong engine....I think the engine in the GS 300 is going to be the engine for the Camry and ES. It is very logical....because Lexus wouldnt make an engine for only a year of use...and bag it.
  • lexi4lifelexi4life Posts: 181
    Perhaps Camry will use it, but not the ES. Toyota has already "registered" the new name of its next ES as ES350. . . But using the 3.0 in the Camry seems a very good idea, since this car doesn't need 260-280hp to be competitive.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    All sedan's have sloping rear C-pillars. How does that give it a *coupe look*? The 1995 ES and the current ES have similar slopes in the C-pillar. What gave the 1995 ES a coupe look was the frameless doors. Frameless doors gave it slim visible B-pillars and therefore gave it a coupe look. We're not going to see the ES 4-door sedan go back to frameless doors, so you might have to look elsewhere.

    Although I would bet that the next ES will be more aggressive in design and should have a strong family resemblance to the 2006 IS and 2006 GS.
  • so you think they would only make that engine...just for a Camry? I doubt it...even though 3.5L on a ES would be nice...i think it would be impractical. Because the GS will have that engine too. I think they wouldnt have the same engine used in both models. Also the ES is suppose to give that 'luxury' look and feel to it...not a 'sport' type of feel and look. So i think 3.5 will be with the IS and GS.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "so you think they would only make that engine...just for a Camry? I doubt it"

    It wouldn't be just for the Camry, the Solara would also get it. Besides you are missing the point, the 3.0L V6 in the current GS is part of the same family as the 3.5L V6 that will be going into the GS and possibly ES & RX. I'm guessing a good part of both engines are similar, therefore the investment in the 3.0L V6 is relatively small. And putting a 3.0L V6 in just the Camry is no big deal. Think about it, Toyota sells 400K Camrys/Solara's just in the US every year, about 20% are V6 sales, therefore that's still alot of V6's they would be producing.

    "Also the ES is suppose to give that 'luxury' look and feel to it...not a 'sport' type of feel and look. So i think 3.5 will be with the IS and GS. "

    The Avalon isn't a *sport* type of car either yet it has a slightly different version of the 3.5L V6 with 280bhp. Also, the ES currently has a 3.3L V6 as it is, so I don't see them moving back in engine displacement, I only see them going up in displacement.
  • lexi4lifelexi4life Posts: 181
    They won't make the 3.0 just for the Camry, obviously. They'll probably use it in Highlander (245hp), Sienna (245hp), base V6 Solara (245hp) (an upscale model having the 3.5 with 280hp) and finally the base V6 Camry (245hp) (the SE V6 model having the 3.5 with 280hp). It could even be used in the next RAV4 (detuned to 220hp?), that is supposed to have a V6 option. And the next ES is really going to be ES350, using the 3.5 rated at probably 280-290hp (with AWD option). It is possible that Lexus offers the 3.0 in the base ES and leaves their 3.5 for the upscale model with AWD! They said they wanted to offer more choice, so that's a possibility! But be sure the next ES is going to have the 3.5, in option or not, since the Avalon gets it fot less money...
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    probably wont find its way into the heavier Camry based vehicles- Sienna, HL, RX.... as the new 3.0L doesnt produce as much torque as the larger, older 3.3L.

    ~alpha
  • lexi4lifelexi4life Posts: 181
    Then if the 3.0 isn't used in Camry, Solara, Sienna and Highlander, can you tell me why Toyota built that engine but is only going to use it for 1 or 2 years it the Lexus GS300? As far as we know, the IS already has 2.5 and 3.5 engines and the GS300 will become GS350 soon. So there's not other car apart from RX and ES that could use the 3.0, and I don't think Lexus will want their cars to have less power than cheaper Toyotas! (RX VS Highlander, Camry VS ES, Avalon VS ES too). Just think about that, it has no sense!
  • exactly
  • It make sense, Lexus use a bigger engine, than "cheaper Toyota" (I don't think Lexus will want their cars to have less power than cheaper Toyotas! (RX VS Highlander, Camry VS ES, Avalon VS ES too). Just think about that, it has no sense!) :)
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I think that Toyota is only using the 3L in the GS as a stopgap for a year or so until the GS350 comes along. Ditto for the 4.3L until the GS460.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "I think that Toyota is only using the 3L in the GS as a stopgap for a year or so until the GS350 comes along."

    But we are talking about the Lexus ES, not the GS. It's a given that the GS300 will be replaced with the GS350 as soon as the 4.6L V8 is ready. Actually we don't even know that for a certainty. They could very well do like BMW and keep the GS300, add the GS350, then have the GS460.

    Back to the 3.0L V6. It makes no financial sense to design the 3.0L V6 just for one model year and really only for a few markets like the US, Canada and probably Europe. That is very light volume.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    in the Camrys, Solaras, and RAV4s, most definitely. Im only saying I dont think it produces enough torque for variations of the platform that weigh greater than 4000 lbs, at least not in today's market place.

    Regardless, the ES will be the ES350 out of the gates? No, I dont know this with certainty, but I cant imagine Toyota continuing to produce an older, less efficient 3.3L when the 3.5L is available and ready to go. The 3.0L, despite its 20 greater hp than the 3.3L, would be a step in the opposite direction of where the class is going... more power AND torque...(especially given that the Avalon uses it).

    ~alpha
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    where gasoline is pricey, Lexus still uses the 3.0L on the ES and RX even while North America has upgraded to the 3.3L.
  • sortersorter Posts: 146
    Any engine used by Lexus or Toyota will have multiple usuage for Japan market. GS' V6 is not new and used for Crown in Japan right now.

    RX, Sienna, highlander type of vehicle will definately get the Avalon 3.5. Not sure about Camry or ES like passenger car. Which 3.5 will GS use? same as Avalon? Or Not?

    According to Lexus web site, GS350 will have 315Hp vs 280Hp for the V8. How many percentage of V8 can they sell??? It will be another year before the new V8 is available. Rummor has it, it will have more HP than the Hemi V8! Let the power war begins...
  • lexcorplexcorp Posts: 2
    As you may or may not know, since 2004MY, The 3.0L V6 has only been used in the Camry LE V6 / XLE V6 and the Avalon prior to 2005MY. The Highlander, Sienna, Solara, Camry SE V6, Lexus ES330, RX330 have used the 3.3L V6 since the 2004MY. The redesigned 2007 Camry/Lexus ES models will feature the new 3.5L V6. Furthermore, for the 2007MY the Highlander, Sienna, Solara, RX, and GS will also be changed to the 3.5L V6. While the Lexus models feature the an engine of the same family, they will however feature the direct injection technology that will give them a power advantage over thier Toyota counter part.
This discussion has been closed.