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Lexus ES 350



  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    In Hong Kong, they sell the Toyota Windom alongside the Lexus ES330.

    So badge kits are popular. You get the slanted L, and the ES330 badge.

    They are cosmetically exact, except for the badges and the logo on the steering wheel.

    So the only way to tell is to peek inside at the steering wheel, or get a glance at the license plate if they got the plates from the only Lexus dealer in Hong Kong- Crown Motor Cars. The Toyota ones will say Toyota, Crown Motors, and the Lexus ones will say Lexus, Crown Motors.

    They also sell a Toyota Harrier and a Lexus RX300 (they used the old 3.0L for some reason) side by side in the same dealership, both cosmetically identical. The badge kits are also popular.

    So in Japan they might keep the Windom, for all we know.
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Posts: 202
    "Is this the real deal? I hope so!"

    It's the ES, just not exactly as it will debut. The profile and shape is correct, the back end is not what I would expect. The wheels are probably very close to what will debut.
  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    In my opinion, whether they will keep the Windom or go to Lexus depends on how status conscious the Japanese are, as measured by Japanese purchasers' willingness to pay a premium to have "Lexus" versus "Toyota" on their vehicles. It appears as though Toyota marketing believes that Japanese purchasers are status conscious, hence the Lexus luxury line in Japan.

    No matter how we look at things, Lexus is still made by Toyota.
  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    Your idea is great in theory. At this time, folks are paying a premium for 2006es over 2005s. I discovered this when I did an Edmund's TMV on the respective model years. The difference in prices was about 6% of MSRP, which on a $37000 MSRP amounts to $2220. So, if you buy a 2006 now, you can get the options you want but it will cost you $2220 over the 2005; not worth it to me.

    If a person decides to wait for the price of the 2006s to drop (which I think it will), I know Toyota enough to know that selection will be very limited, particularly as it gets closer to the 2007 appearing on dealer lots. You may not be able to find the options you want if you wait for the 2006 price to drop.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    True, which means buyers who want to get a good deal will have to be very flexible with colors and option levels.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Hmm !!! that is surprising. What would be the point of selling two identical cars, one with the T and one with the L on the steering wheel ? Are they going to do this for the forseeable future ? Once the new ES comes out I think everybody will get the Lexus version and not the Toyota version. Toyota wants to compete against the Europeans with more upscale products, IMO.
  • I don't think they will be identical. I guess the Lexus will have a few extra features, better leather/wood, upgraded wheels/stereo, and perhaps longer warranty!
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    The Lexus has the Mark Levinson stereo, the longer Lexus warranty, and a few other things the Windom (or Harrier) doesn't have.

    But cosmetically they're IDENTICAL. From the grille to the dashboard design to the wheels.

    Hence why the badge kits are highly popular. Nobody can tell the difference unless they sit behind the wheel.

    Heres the Toyota Windom:

    I don't know why they sell them side by side.
    Maybe they've discontinued it now that Lexus is becoming prominent in Hong Kong. Not sure.

    But I have seen Windoms on the streets with ES300 badges and I have seen actual ES300s out there from the same generation. (the current one)
  • I want to know what might be the pricing of the 2007 ES? Is the base price going to be around 32K (plus minus couple hundred dollars) as it is for the 2006 ES 330?
  • I would anticipate exactly that, similar pricing, a few hundred more perhaps.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I think the ES may still be for the U.S. market only. Lexus is expanding big in Europe, but few in Europe are going to want FWD from a premium brand. BMW and Mercedes stick to rear-wheel drive (and AWD to an extent) because of its superior driving dynamics, and Europeans are driving enthusiasts more so than Americans.

    The only way I see the ES going global as a Lexus is if it becomes AWD.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Which brings up something interesting:

    Will the ES get an AWD variant?
  • Yes, with a hybrid drivetrain in 2007.
  • poiuy3poiuy3 Posts: 10
    I don't think there will be a AWD ES. And the Hybrid won't come anytime soon. Camry will get one for its I4 version. Actually starting from Feb~March next year.
  • And the Hybrid won't come anytime soon.

    Which is why I said "2007." And yes, the upcoming ES hybrid will come in FWD and AWD iterations.
  • They may very well be identical. Remember that Acura and Lexus (and later Infiniti) were branding plays from the Japanese manifacturer to enter the luxury/high-end of the US market when their mainstream products (Honda, Toyota) were seen as good cheap cars (who would of thought of paying $30k+ for what was seen as a glorified Corolla?). Even the US manufacturers have been using this strategy (Ford Explorer vs. Mercury Mountaineer?). There are many markets outside the US where Honda and Toyota sell Acura/Lexus models under the Honda/Toyota name - which makes sense since, if at all possible, it's cheaper to maintain one brand than two (less dealers, less TV spend, etc.)
  • spfoteyspfotey Posts: 131
    Anybody know when the new ES350 will arrive?? the dealer told me March but that seems early. But he also said that they are steadily losing market share to both the Avalon and the TL and G35. Don't know if that's true or not, but strange for a Lexus person to offer it.
  • Nothing has been officially announced other than to say "Spring of 2006". March would be logical and it's what I'm hoping for.

    No news there about loosing market share, it's been a steady erosion. All you need to do is look at the sales figures for the ES on a monthly basis. The same thing happened to the old Avalon, now the sales are exploding with a new design...

    The current ES is "dated" by today's design standards, who'd buy it compared to the makes you mentioned?

    So far we've only seen one decent digital rendering of what the car might look like. The tail lights are overly exagerated to throw you off but the shape and styling should be accurate. I would anticipate Lexus to copy the rear end styling of a BMW 5 series to some extent...
  • By the way, it has been reported on another forum that the new ES was shown in Canada to Lexus dealers only. The feedback is that the ES was shown along with the LF-Sh "concept" and that the ES was a pleasant surprise.
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    Why do you say the shape and styling should be accurate?
    Based on what?
    More likely than not the drawing is completely bogus.
  • Based upon the spy shots we've all seen of the new Camry, the profile of the ES rendering matches.

    We've consistently seen over time the backdoor way Toyota releases information on new models. A journalist is allowed to see the new design but can't take photos. What results are drawings that are really close but off just ever so much. We saw it with the IS and recently with the LF-SH....There were plenty of renderings floating about, none were exact but most were really close in one way or another. Look at each one and you get the overall picture.

    The ES drawing came from Mag-X.

    Define "bogus"? Yea it's not a photo of the actual car, it's a rendition done by someone who has seen the real deal. Close enough at this point unless you have something better.
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    The Hollywood Extra and Mag-X often have fake or misidentified photos. How do you even know that that rendering was really done by someone who has seen the 2007 ES?
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    We'll never know for sure unless an insider leaks the news or unless its revealed at an auto show. :)
  • I can't deny that about Hollywood extra, Mag-X has been more accurate.

    Everything about this image clicks for me (except for the back end). We'll know for sure in a few months when they take the wraps off the ES. My gut tells me this one is very close.

    Now that LF-SH is out I like to go back and compare all renderings to the real deal, almost every one of them has similar styling to the real car.

    All you need to do is look at the 5 series and you'll know what they're shooting for on the ES.
  • g17g17 Posts: 45
    links don't work
  • Try these:

    5 Series
    Image Hosted by
    Future ES?
    Image Hosted by

    I expect Lexus to copy the 5 series rear. They copied the 7 series with the LF-SH....
  • I don't see the 7 series in the LF-Sh

    I see it in the S-Class interior, and in the trunk lid.

    If BMW made a rear-end like that, no one would call it "Bangle-ized". Apples and Oranges.

  • I don't know, seems like they borrowed a good deal from BMW. Lexus clearly stated they were after BMW customers.

    Image Hosted by

    7 Series
    Image Hosted by
  • The design is similar, the styling is far different, and superior. I seriously doubt Lexus saw that rear-end and said "Awesome! Why can't we do that?"

    And the production LS should have chrome exhaust finishers that are visible.

    Lexus has corrected another market mistake.

    Nice try, though.

  • The rear end of the LS is actually the worse part of the design, I expect they update that within 2 years of launch. The rest of the car is so far ahead of the S class, the rear seems to be out of tune with the overall theme. BMW was never admired because of it styling, why copy?
This discussion has been closed.