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Comments
http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2006010801796
All indications point to Chicago. We should know something soon, they're bound to make a press release in the next few weeks.
If they debut in NY it'll be May or June before they release the ES. However, they've just told us in Detroit that they have more debut info. coming on the LS in NY. I don't think they'll want to wait that long for the ES debut AND cram too much info. into the NY PC. Detroit and NY for the LS makes perfect sense, and so does the ES in Chicago.
My money is on Chicago.
Lexus has been completely successful in keeping the new ES under wraps, no spy photos, nuthin'. Is that fair to all the inquiring minds out there? No. Keep your eyes peeled and post all info.
The current ES drove well going straight. Let's hope the next one can also turn corners, i.e., how about a little better handling. And I guess the new 6-speed transmission should end the complaints about transmission problems. Hopefully the new one will work better than the 5-speed. (There have been no complaints from GS owners with the same 6-speed transmission that the new ES [and the new Camry] are getting.)
They did a great job of keeping the LS under wraps, we didn't see any shots until the a day or two before the reveal. The Camry was out longggg before the reveal.
As I recall the current ES330's mileage is 20/29, which is definitely better than my car's 19/26.
The platform is called "MC" from what I've read, and it is shared by the Camry.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-17-200- 6/0004262354&EDATE=
Isn't the current ES using regular unleaded fuel?
The current ES does in fact use regular fuel.
Toyota does strange things with their engines. That's why there is a GS300 and IS250 probably because their rear drive V6 engines are overdue for replacement.
This family of engines is applied in mulitple drive forms; for the first time, Toyota will be using the same engines in platforms that are both rear and front wheel drive (as well as All and 4WD).
The GS300 will be upgraded to the GS350 when the new Lexus LS460 is introduced (and the GS430 subsequently becomes the GS460). Had Toyota introduced a GS350 and GS430, there would have been precious little difference in power.
~alpha
Wouldn't it be nice if the ES got the IS 3.5 vs the Camry one.
It would be interesting to know how the engine lineup ended up the it has with more powerful engines in a Camry than the IS250 and GS300. I can't imagine they think this is ideal.
The IS250 exists to compete at a starting price under 30K. If you look at the competition, the TSX, BMW 325i, Audi A4 2.0T, etc... all produce similar power and torque figures. Additionally, the uplevel 306 horse 3.5L is available. So whats your issue?
~alpha
PS- the IS250/350 are selling at incredible paces compared to the predecessor IS300.
When the IS250 "sports sedan" is slower than a V6 RAV4, much less the Avalon that has been around before the new IS and upcoming Camry. That looks strange.
The IS350 is very expensive and, since many people have a dollar amount budget they have to stay in, many will cross shop the IS250 with Toyota's other sedans in the same price range.
According to Edmunds, the RAV4 gets 7.1 seconds from 0-60 mph, and the TSX... wait for it... wait for it.... 8.3 seconds!
Replacing the 2.5GR IS with 3.0GR from GS
Replacing the 3.0GR GS with the 3.5GR from IS
Replacing the 4.3 L V8 with the 4.6 L V8 from LS
and...
Replacing the 3.3 L V6 ES with the longitudinally mounted 3.5 GR from the Camry.
Somebody else? I mean, this sounds LOGICAL to me.
I think an upgrade from the IS250 to an IS300 would put the price just barely past the $30,000 mark, which is a big price barrier.
But there wouldn't be overlap if the IS250 went to the IS300, the GS300 went to the GS350, and the ES330 went to the ES350. The ES and GS have totally different markets.
But, by your same train of thought, they couldn't do that anyways because of inherent price barriers in every category of car sales no matter how [in]expensive they are.
The IS 250 will eventually become a 300; eventually, not soon.
The IS needed a stick, a sport suspension, and a six-cylinder engine with 250+HP to stay in the game(3.5 anyone?). The 2.5 is worthless here, unless you are after bottom-feeder shoppers like TSX, S40 and alike.
The ES can have a toned down version of the 3.5. 240HP is plenty for this demographic.
I would've went a totally different route. At the mid-gen facelift, juice up the 3.5 to 280-290HP, and then introduce a 2.5 or 3.0 with 225HP for budget shoppers.
About the GS remember, 9 out of 10 get the V6, so make the V6 as competitive as possible. 245HP is NOT COMPETITIVE in this class! :mad: A much better fit for the 306HP engine. Drop the V8 for a year. Introduce the Hybrid next, with V8 power and close to 30MPG, then see if there is demand for an 8. Or save the 8 for the LS? Unlike Acura, you have high-powered Hybrids to sub for an 8, so it's no RL (lame duck).
It's like Toyota has found a new toy (HP), but doesn't know what to do with it. :confuse:
DrFill
Let us not forget in this discussion that certain EPA goals must be met and having a low HP IS250 is a benifit to Lexus that helps them to avoid penalities for their entire fleet which must meet certain fuel usuage requirements here in the U.S.
As Car enthusiast we all want major performance. SOme people who buy a Lexus just want status. Most of the IS's I see around here so far are IS 250's.
I also feel that a Lexus GS with 380 Hp might be too much for the standard GS V8 buyer. But judging that the RAV 4 has more power thant the Higlander I don't expect Toyota to back down with a detuned version.
Some one who was comparing the IS low power to the Camry should rememeber that you are talking Rear wheel drive vs front wheel drive which have completely different driving dynamics. It takes a lot less power to push than pull scientifically speaking.
However, the V6 Camry vs IS250 power difference will matter more many others. Most people on test drives are not going to be driving at 9/10ths on a twisting track to see benefit from rear drive handling.
They will hop on a freeway on ramp, step on it, and feel how much weaker the IS250 feels compared to the Camry.
0-60 in 7.9 seconds in the IS250 will be way slower than the new 3.5 Camry.
May actually be slower than the current Camry V6.
They will be disappointed in the acceleration of IS250, not want to spend the money for an IS350 and then go look at Avalons, Camrys and competitors products from other manufacturers.
Only people with blinders on to only shop the supposed direct competitors such as A4s, S40s and Saab 9-3s will feel like IS250 performs competitively.
what i dont see, is with a hybrid GS450h (that should have comparable power to the 4.6 V8), why would a GS460 be necessary/fit in?
As for the camry, i have no idea why they bothered to put the 3.5 v6 in there, I do however see the ES with this engine (maybe slightly retuned) and, AWD to differentiate it. I dont even know why they bother having a FWD car in the lexus lineup (RX crossover model is excused)
Object
That's all I'm sayin'! The V8 only sells 3-500 a month anyway. Might as well replace it with the Hybrid. A 300HP Hybrid has more cache than a V8 these days anyway! It will easily outsell the V8.
DrFill
I think Lexus should keep the IS250 to advertise a base price of under $30,000, which would bring in some Camry customers.
Some Camry customers would go: Heck, for just a few thousand more, I could have a Lexus in my driveway. (albeit a compact RWD Lexus vs. a roomy FWD Camry) So that type of buyer, who is willing to pay another $2,000 and sacrifice space, MPG, and practicality to get a Lexus, forms the main customer base for the bottom feeder IS250 model.
Couldn't Lexus have 3 IS models? Sort of like how Mercedes has 3 C-Class models? C230, C280, C350... Lexus could have the IS250, IS300, and IS350. The C230 is mainly there to bring in some buyers who are just on the border price wise and are willing to make sacrifices to get the 3 pointed star on the hood. (and so Mercedes can meet CAFE requirements)
Here's how I see the Lexus range working out:
IS250, IS300, IS350 (they could drop the IS250 after 2 years if sales don't ring up)
ES350
GS350, GS450h, GS460
That would work, right?
After all, there will be coupe models of the IS, high performance versions, the awd model etc... it makes sense to update it to an IS300 and keep the price relatively similar, not to keep both models (IS250 & 300)
And if a Hybid GS450 makes pretty much the same power as the 460, while using less gas, That doesnt make much sense either... it needs a little more diffrentiation, like maybe the same 5.0 450hp V8 that is allegedly going to be in the hi po IS coupe concept to make a GS500 (and hence GS350,450,500).....*goes off into dream world** or maybe a V10 version :surprise:
DrFill
DrFill