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Lexus ES 350

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Comments

  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Some people can't afford to shell out $35,000 for an ES.

    And the "perceived value" of the IS250 is better because they figure "for $30,000 I can either have a Camry XLE V6 or an IS250"

    The ES exists for Camry buyers who's incomes have grown along with their age. They want luxury, but cannot afford or don't want a LS.

    Are there figures out there that show what cars ES buyers trade in for an ES? I'll bet you the number 1 model traded in for the ES is the Camry.
  • objectiveviewobjectiveview Member Posts: 72
    the difference between 30k and 35k is negligible...plus youd get more in a 35k ES than in a 30k IS.

    Doc...what/who are you referring too?
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    I'm in the market for an 07' ES, and frankly if I'm going to spend $30K on a car I might as well spend an extra $5K, get somthing nicer and be happier with it in the long run.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Well it seems in this case.... BUY AN OLD MUSTANG V8!!!

    It appears the only thing you are comparing are 0-60 times when talking about Camrys.

    Really, it all depends on what your priorities are when looking for a car. Why didn't you mention that when going from a 2007 Camry V6 to a 2007 IS 250, the same person would not be impressed with the quality of luxury?

    I think you are only speaking for yourself.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    My dad was.
  • sortersorter Member Posts: 146
    If that logic holds, then why now spend another 5k for a 40K car? or a GS for 45K?

    There are people who can afford 35K and doesn't mind spending less, but there are others who actually can only afford 25k but "dreams" at a 4.99% interest rate. I think the buyer of IS fits the latter profile.

    The "next door millionare" buys a V6 Camry over a BMW 3 is mostly because he is more self confident. I think most ES buyers are the same way.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    the difference between 30k and 35k is negligible...plus youd get more in a 35k ES than in a 30k IS.

    Permit me to point out that the difference under discussion here is five thousand dollars. I don't consider that to be negligible. You must be a very wealthy man.
  • objectiveviewobjectiveview Member Posts: 72
    not really.

    But if you have a problem affording a 35K ES, why buy a 30k camry in the first place?
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Not necessarily; I assume most people interested in a 30-40g car are not multi millionaires but affluent who make around 80 to 120g's a year. Hence, I assume most people in this situation would finance the car rather than pay cash outright. I believe the difference in monthly payment is not going to be that great between a 30g and a 35g car.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Member Posts: 692
    There are people who spend that much for lunch (wine, tip and tax included, of course). A Kobe beef hamburger, freedom fries, and a bottle of wine: $5,000.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Some people can only afford $25,000, but if they finance at 4% at 60 months, then they can barely afford payments on a IS250.

    If your logic is correct, then why not pony up another $5,000 to get into a GS?

    $5,000 is a lot of money for a lot of people. $5,000 was the approximate spread between a I35 and a ES330 for me, and that $5,000 difference is EXACTLY what tipped the scales in favor of the I35. The ES330 was nice, but not worth another $5,000 over the I35.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Those folks don't buy entry-level luxury cars.
  • golfer71golfer71 Member Posts: 30
    I can actually afford the luxury market. This discussion on $5,000 is silly.

    I am eagerly awaiting the ES. IF AWD comes (I doubt it), then I will buy it. I think it will be FWD but every other car they produce has gone with AWD as an option. So I will wait.

    The reason I am "stepping down" to the ES is that the Mercedes E class has had too many problems in the past and it is not technology friendly. No bluetooth, backup camera, etc. The GS is perfect except one small factor. It is small on the inside. Actually, I am exactly 6" and my head literally touches the ceiling. Not safe if that side head airbag deploys.

    So there are really no real great cars out there that combine driving performance and technology. I don't like any of the other cars like the jag. The only problem with the 530xi is that the iDrive will cause my wife to iCrash the car. It is a real problem (been a BMW guy for over 12 years).

    So if the ES 350 comes out with AWD and drives descent. Comes with all the options that the GS has, I am going to buy one and probably pay MSRP to get it immediately.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    People buy what they want to buy up to what they can afford. For some, there is a finite amount they don't want to go over and an extra $5000 beyond that is a deal breaker.
    There are people who pass on buying a house over a price disagreement of less than $5000, so I'm sure $5000 is a much bigger issue on a car purchase.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Says who?

    I have seen on Entertainment Tonight Jessica Simpson driving a 3-series and she is a multi-millionaire.

    There is no law saying if you have a lot of money, you don't like the design, 'practicality', purpose, driveability, and price of an entry-level luxury car.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    I can actually afford the luxury market.

    So can I. With my permission, my wife almost pulled the trigger on an E350 Mercedes a few months ago. At the last moment, she decided not to switch brands because her current car, a '99 Lexus ES 300, has been faultless. But she had previously test-driven an '06 GS &, like you, decided that she couldn't live with that car's tight interior & small trunk. Given that the LS was too big for her tastes (although dealers are cutting price on the '06 LS 430 to make room for the '07 LS 460), only the ES remained for her consideration. She wanted to buy an '06 ES 330, but I convinced her that since we keep our cars for 8+ years, it would be worth her while to wait for the '07 ES 350.

    You won't see an AWD variant anytime soon - probably not for years, if ever. Toyota will continue to use AWD availability to differentiate the GS from the ES. I don't care about that, anyway. We also have a 4WD SUV, we live in the NY metro area, where AWD is a must-have for at most 10 days a year, & my wife's retired. (For her, heavy snow is just an excuse to sleep later.)

    If you've just gotta have AWD & you care about driving dynamics, look at the Infiniti M35x.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    I guess that proves something, but I'm not sure what.
  • golfer71golfer71 Member Posts: 30
    I did try the Infiniti out and the audi and several others. My big issue is the road noise. The Mercedes and Lexus are the most quiet vehicles I tested. I talk on the phone a lot in the car which is why I want bluetooth. If there is excessive road noise then it sounds like a very bad speaker phone. I might have to go to the RX400h but I just don't want an SUV. Either that or the risk of mechanical failures on the E350. Given the E track record it might not be a vehicle to buy but one to lease until someone comes out with a better car.

    I did enjoy the Lincoln MKS concept. If it becomes real I might go American for once in my life. Lease until it debuts....
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    I was addressing the blanket statement, if you couldn't tell.

    "All very wealthy people only buy the most expensive cars they can afford"

    I am sure you get the drift of my post, but what was the point of your post, hrmm? Really.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Sorry, Mike. I thought that you brought up Jessica Simpson just for laughs. I was trying to go along with your gag. If you really were trying to make a serious point, I apologize.
  • golfer71golfer71 Member Posts: 30
    I agree with jimbres on the fact that there are many of us that can afford more expensive cars but that doesn't mean we don't want to buy cheaper cars too.

    My point of my first post is that I am disappointed in the current line of cars from BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and many others. That is why I am hoping the ES will be a happy medium.

    E-Class : Bad track record for repairs, little to no technology.
    GS: To small. Otherwise, my perfect car.
    ES 330: Outdated. Needs the forthcoming upgrade.
    Infiniti: To loud
    Acura: To small
    Audi: To Loud

    Remember I want AWD. We don't have a AWD or 4 Wheel Drive vehicle at present. We want a sedan and not an SUV.

    I am not too sure that Lexus won't go with AWD in the new ES. All other cars didn't have it and now they do or will. Being based off the camry I think this would distinguish the lexus even more. Remember that they have an AWD camry in Japan. I guess we will know in two weeks or so. Hopefully some rumors will start coming out sooner than that.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,149
    Folks, let's stick to talking about the upcoming ES - we've got an Entry-Level Luxury discussion, and the topic here isn't what people can afford, or what they should/should not be driving. Thanks!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    I am not too sure that Lexus won't go with AWD in the new ES. All other cars didn't have it and now they do or will. Being based off the camry I think this would distinguish the lexus even more.

    Anything's possible, but I don't think that Lexus would risk cannibalizing GS sales by introducing an AWD version of the ES. The GS has to offer more to justify the substantial price delta.

    Even if Lexus does decide to offer AWD in this car, I wouldn't expect to see it until the ES comes up for its mid-cycle refresh 2 or 3 years from now. Until then, the fresh styling & larger engine should, one hopes, generate enough excitement to meet sales targets.

    I could be wrong about this. In fact, I hope I am. We'll know more in a few weeks.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Member Posts: 692
    The web site for the upcoming Chicago Auto Show does not show the Lexus ES350 as one of the new vehicles to be introduced. Is this an oversight or are we mistaken?
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    Is the tail wagging the dog?

    Could the ES actually be chasing the TL (75k)?

    I dig the TL's interior, but I like the ES' overstyled face over the Acura's doorstop style.

    I think if the next ES is a little more conservative, things will go back to the way they were.

    DrFill
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    It's an oversight...

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2006011898317
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Member Posts: 692
    How about some predictions about the '07 ES350? Since it's based on the '07 Camry, already introduced at Detroit, we can check out the Camry thread and take it from there.

    1. It will have a 6-speed transmission, finally ending the interminable controversy over the current 5-speed.

    2. Will it have a rear, backup camera (like GS)?

    3. It will have knee airbags.

    4. What will the horsepower of the engine be on this car? And, more important, will regular fuel be recommended (as on the new Camry) or premium?

    5. Will it have a handling package? Or will the standard handling be beefed up, compared to the sorry handling of the current model?

    6. Will it have power tilt/telescope steering wheel, or manual?

    7. What nifty new options might it have, compared to the current model?

    8. Will it be longer and wider or about the same size? Will the wheelbase be stretched?

    9. Interior space, trunk space--more or the same?

    Your thoughts?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    The car is almost here. Might as well wait to see reality rather than speculate.
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    You ask questions more than make predictions.

    1) Yes, 6 speed auto.
    2) Perhaps on the ultra luxury package, speculation at this point.
    3) Yes.
    4) 268 to 275 h.p.
    5) Probably AVS as an option, better handling as standard.
    6) Tilt/Telescope option.
    7) Bluetooth, MP3/WMA input, hybrid option late in 07'.
    8) 2 inches longer at least, similar to the 07' Camry.
    9) Interior space grows slightly, see #8.

    You gotta remember it's a luxury sedan, it won't handle like a GS or an IS and it's not supposed to... It'll be better than the current generation but too many people are asking to put this square peg into a round hole.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Note that the Camry's overall length does not change for 07, it is only the wheelbase that grew by two inches.

    ~alpha
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    Correct, my mistake. The overall length is the same.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    That hurts all the other cars around it, for no good reason!

    Corolla is now WAY behind it in power, even the XRS is almost 100HP behind!

    The Avalon is right there at 280.

    Where can the ES go from there, at FWD?

    Will people buy more Camrys because it is so powerful? Doubt it. It will keep the vanilla stigma for a while. It'll be fast, but no fun, so why bother?

    DrFill
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    The Camry SE should be fun.

    The ES350 will have stiff competition from the Hyundai Azera, no doubt about it.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    No one expects the ES to be fun. It's always been a boulevard cruiser - never an enthusiast's car.
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    Yup, here we go again... Square peg into a round hole.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The Avalon is rated at 268 horses; the 280 was the rating prior to the SAE certified number.

    ~alpha
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    Makes my point even better!

    That's a square peg in a round hole.

    DrFill
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Oh, I'm not knocking the car. My wife has a '99 ES 300 & loves it. It's been faultless, & she'll probably replace it with the new ES unless that turns out to be a real dog.

    But after living with this car for 7 years & spending many hours behind the wheel, I stand by my description. It's a boulevard cruiser. It's certainly pleasant but it's a long way from being fun. And that's fine with my wife. She's no enthusiast. She doesn't want "fun" - she wants "pleasant" & "smooth". In other words, she's a typical ES buyer.
  • bluesman3bluesman3 Member Posts: 202
    I'm with you on this one, I totally agree. What you describe is what the ES is all about...

    It's the guys who think this car should corner and accelerate like it's on a race track that don't get it. Those are the guys trying to make this car (square peg) fit into a round hole.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I think there is this large market for a comfortable cruiser among more affluent people, and the ES fills it quite nicely. All the other automakers are moving more towards performance in the entry level market.

    They better keep this as a cruiser or otherwise a lot of loyal ES owners will be alienated.
  • dtezladtezla Member Posts: 88
    The seats are not connected to the AC ducts in anyway. The vented feature is only a fan- not AC.
  • zekeman1zekeman1 Member Posts: 422
    I have the Toyota remote start device on my 05 Avalon along with the smart key technology - came from the factory that way. It isn't worth the extra $ since the car engine is killed when you open the door (anti-theft device)and the purpose is somewhat defeated. Aftermarket remote starts work much better but then, you cannot use them with the smart key technology!
    zekeman1
  • psychdocpsychdoc Member Posts: 147
    As it's a lease it's not as clear as if it were an outright purchase. But I believe I'm getting $2,200 off stcker. The lease is $665/month for 36 months/12,000 mile with only $800 due at signing.

    A very good deal I believe for the UL package.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Member Posts: 692
    Great price on a new model. What dealer did you buy from?
  • bobbassbobbass Member Posts: 34
    RocketDan said, "When going through intermittently heavy traffic if gets tiresome constantly hitting the brakes, then resume."

    In fairness to the radar cruise, I should say that if you want to use it in "intermittently heavy traffic" staying in the right lane while moving with the general traffic flow, it works just fine. You could just set it once and you'll stay a specific distance behind the vehicle you're following unless it speeds up faster than your setting.

    I tend to be a "hammer lane" person passing more cars than pass me, so I'm constantly changing to the left lane to pass and then back to the right if someone behind me is moving faster.

    The other thing that is somewhat of an annoyance with the radar cruise is that once you set it and want to bump up or down a couple mph, it only changes in 5 mph increments. I don't quite understand that because the regular cruise bumps in one mph increments.

    And, of course, this is all assuming that the Lexus ES350 radar cruise works the same as the Toyota Sienna MiniVan.
  • tnfantnfan Member Posts: 18
    Not that I am aware of. Will address that issue when I go for my first service.

    The voice recognition is one of my few issues with this vehicle. Just cannot get it to accept a lot of my voice commands. Have been totally unable to get a street search correct using voice command. Also the VR does not seem to like the way I pronounce nine. Always comes back with a five. Guess they did not allow for southern accent! Just a little irksome but I can live with it.
  • shop4mywifeshop4mywife Member Posts: 36
    For those who have taken the plunge. Do you think Extended Warranty is a must? How many of you are able to get the dealer to throw in the E.W? Thanks.
  • cyclopsstancyclopsstan Member Posts: 24
    Yes Kat thats the moonshell, straight from the barge and coated w/ a layer of salt, so if anything its even a little bit brighter. It was gone with-in the week too, as I was going to take a few more pic's of it. Mine was the only car that they had sold pre-order, while the MSM (my wife thought it was a cool color, but not a 1st choice) an almond (we both thought was rather bland) and a tungsten (not enough sparkle for us) sold with-in the 1st week. The amber (interesting color but not for us) & the aqua is in their showroom (gorgous but might be a little to bright in the sun)remained unsold. As of last week they had sold 2 more ruby's (on order) and have probably gotten their second batch. I still haven't seen the blue onyx, smoky granite, white or black....aloha... :)
  • cyclopsstancyclopsstan Member Posts: 24
    They had just come from the barge w/ a 1/2 inch of salt still on them. Mine was inside locked up in the garage for tomorrows p/u. The 1st & 3rd pic's are of the almond :lemon: which we all found kinda bland. The 2nd is the amber w/ the almond behind (& my wife :) In the 4th the tungsten is on the left & is the 5th. Aqua is the 6th and was much nicer and darker than on the Lexus web site (thou if you look @ the base of the rearview mirror you can see that light aqua glimmer coming thru.) The last is of the moonshell, in its pinkish-purple splendor. It was a different shade from every angle we looked @ it from, my wife loved it & I could live w/ it if it was hers, but its not ;)
    Tomorrow I'll add some pic's of my Ruby, aloha til then... http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=10177617&uid=4946984&members=- - 1
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Member Posts: 692
    There's no reason why a boulevard cruiser like the ES has to handle sloppier than a Buick. Lately, Toyota has realized it's getting the reputation for making bland cars for seniors, thus they introduced the Scion line to attract younger buyers and guzzied up the '07 Camry for a sportier look. There's no reason they couldn't do the same for the ES350. Whether they did, however, is another story. Maybe they just want to give people reason to buy the GS (or even the LS for that matter).

    By the way, Chicagoland residents can get a preview look at the new ES on February 8 at Union Station in Chicago, 6-9 pm with food and entertainment. Call your dealer for details.
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