2017 Toyota 4Runner Lease Deals and Prices

kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778
edited September 2017 in Toyota
Ask your 2017 4Runner lease questions here! Get info about prices, money factor, deals, incentives, and payments.

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  • therealbofatherealbofa Member Posts: 46
    Any lease support for 2017s yet? Considering a Limited for 36/12 in the Denver area.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778

    Any lease support for 2017s yet? Considering a Limited for 36/12 in the Denver area.

    .00200 MF and 65% residual

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  • therealbofatherealbofa Member Posts: 46
    kyfdx said:

    Any lease support for 2017s yet? Considering a Limited for 36/12 in the Denver area.

    .00200 MF and 65% residual
    Thank you and yikes @ 4.8% :)
  • mrb7160mrb7160 Member Posts: 1
    Anyone know approx. how much a lease on the SR5 4x4 is in New York State? 8.75% sales tax. Would want to put 0 down. 36mo/12k per year
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778
    mrb7160 said:

    Anyone know approx. how much a lease on the SR5 4x4 is in New York State? 8.75% sales tax. Would want to put 0 down. 36mo/12k per year

    Would need MSRP and selling price to calculate a lease payment.

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  • pstein08pstein08 Member Posts: 2
    Would like to know MF and residual for SR5 premium (4x4) and Limited (4x4) for NC, please! 36mo/12k per year
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778
    pstein08 said:

    Would like to know MF and residual for SR5 premium (4x4) and Limited (4x4) for NC, please! 36mo/12k per year

    .00200 MF and 66%/65% residual for SR5Prem/LTD

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  • nomad317nomad317 Member Posts: 109
    kyfdx said:

    pstein08 said:

    Would like to know MF and residual for SR5 premium (4x4) and Limited (4x4) for NC, please! 36mo/12k per year

    .00200 MF and 66%/65% residual for SR5Prem/LTD
    Does the same hold true for Indiana? (Any incentives?)
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778
    nomad317 said:

    kyfdx said:

    pstein08 said:

    Would like to know MF and residual for SR5 premium (4x4) and Limited (4x4) for NC, please! 36mo/12k per year

    .00200 MF and 66%/65% residual for SR5Prem/LTD
    Does the same hold true for Indiana? (Any incentives?)
    Yes.. no incentives

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  • seeking4runnerseeking4runner Member Posts: 11
    Anyone have 36/12 and 36/15 MF and Residual for 4Runner Limited in Massachusetts?
  • seeking4runnerseeking4runner Member Posts: 11
    kyfdx said:

    Any lease support for 2017s yet? Considering a Limited for 36/12 in the Denver area.

    .00200 MF and 65% residual
    .00200! Ouch. I thought that .00180 was high.
  • irwinfletcherirwinfletcher Member Posts: 1
    edited January 2017
    2017 4Runner SR5 Premium, 4x4 in San Diego?

    I'm guessing not in this forum, since Edmunds and car dealerships are in business together, but is there a forum where people list what they are actually paying for their 4runners? Thanks!
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195

    2017 4Runner SR5 Premium, 4x4 in San Diego?

    I'm guessing not in this forum, since Edmunds and car dealerships are in business together, but is there a forum where people list what they are actually paying for their 4runners? Thanks!

    There likely isn't, but it isn't due to collusion. Check out the Accord Prices Paid discussion - many new posts each day.

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  • dlassdlass Member Posts: 4
    edited January 2017
    I'm interested in MF and residual for both '17 4Runner SR5 Premium and Limited for 36/12 and 42/12 please. Also, do you have figures for non-Toyota financial lease options such as US Bank?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778
    dlass said:

    I'm interested in MF and residual for both '17 4Runner SR5 Premium and Limited for 36/12 and 42/12 please. Also, do you have figures for non-Toyota financial lease options such as US Bank?

    Assuming 4X4

    .00200 MF
    66%/62% residual for Premium
    65%/61% for Limited

    We don't have USBank info.

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  • dlassdlass Member Posts: 4
    kyfdx said:

    dlass said:

    I'm interested in MF and residual for both '17 4Runner SR5 Premium and Limited for 36/12 and 42/12 please. Also, do you have figures for non-Toyota financial lease options such as US Bank?

    Assuming 4X4

    .00200 MF
    66%/62% residual for Premium
    65%/61% for Limited

    We don't have USBank info.
    Yes 4x4, and thanks!
  • surferdrewsurferdrew Member Posts: 9
    Any TRD Pro #s in yet? I'm in SoCal and trying to nail down MF and Residual on 36/12 while I'm next in line for new inventory.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778

    Any TRD Pro #s in yet? I'm in SoCal and trying to nail down MF and Residual on 36/12 while I'm next in line for new inventory.

    .00210 MF and 66% residual

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  • mmleesonmmleeson Member Posts: 1
    Any information on residual and MF for a 2017 4Runner Limited 4x4 in Michigan?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778
    mmleeson said:

    Any information on residual and MF for a 2017 4Runner Limited 4x4 in Michigan?

    .00210 MF and 63% residual for 36/15.

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  • gtx1967gtx1967 Member Posts: 10
    Hi,
    can I get residual and money factor for a SR5 Premium 36/12 in Phila.PA
    Thank you!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778
    gtx1967 said:

    Hi,
    can I get residual and money factor for a SR5 Premium 36/12 in Phila.PA
    Thank you!

    .00210 MF and 66% residual, assuming 4WD

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  • gtx1967gtx1967 Member Posts: 10
    kyfdx said:

    gtx1967 said:

    Hi,
    can I get residual and money factor for a SR5 Premium 36/12 in Phila.PA
    Thank you!

    .00210 MF and 66% residual, assuming 4WD
    Thank you! I am told the MF is .0022 for non-TFS lease owners
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195
    gtx1967 said:

    kyfdx said:

    gtx1967 said:

    Hi,
    can I get residual and money factor for a SR5 Premium 36/12 in Phila.PA
    Thank you!

    .00210 MF and 66% residual, assuming 4WD
    Thank you! I am told the MF is .0022 for non-TFS lease owners
    That may be true; we have no information to dispute it.

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  • bryanmandelbryanmandel Member Posts: 5
    Would you please let me know what the lease payment should be on a 2017 Limited, MSRP 44,500, sell price 41,500. 24mo/12k

    Everyone: For what it's worth, 2016 4Runners are averaging $4,200 off and 2017's are averaging $2,500 off (minimum) in the Dallas,TX area.

    Thanks for your help.
    Bryan
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195

    Would you please let me know what the lease payment should be on a 2017 Limited, MSRP 44,500, sell price 41,500. 24mo/12k

    Everyone: For what it's worth, 2016 4Runners are averaging $4,200 off and 2017's are averaging $2,500 off (minimum) in the Dallas,TX area.

    Thanks for your help.
    Bryan

    4x4 or 4x2?

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  • bryanmandelbryanmandel Member Posts: 5
    4x2

    And, just pushed the price down another $1k, so MSRP 44,500, sell price 40,500, 24mos/12k, 4x2 Limited.

    Thanks!
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195
    Michaell said:

    Would you please let me know what the lease payment should be on a 2017 Limited, MSRP 44,500, sell price 41,500. 24mo/12k

    Everyone: For what it's worth, 2016 4Runners are averaging $4,200 off and 2017's are averaging $2,500 off (minimum) in the Dallas,TX area.

    Thanks for your help.
    Bryan

    4x4 or 4x2?

    4x2

    And, just pushed the price down another $1k, so MSRP 44,500, sell price 40,500, 24mos/12k, 4x2 Limited.

    Thanks!

    72% and .00210

    With those prices, I get $505/mo before tax.

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  • bryanmandelbryanmandel Member Posts: 5
    Thank you, much appreciated!
  • bryanmandelbryanmandel Member Posts: 5
    For anyone interested in pricing data on the 2017 4Runner, my final price was $4,700 off MSRP on a 2017 Limited 4x2...
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778

    For anyone interested in pricing data on the 2017 4Runner, my final price was $4,700 off MSRP on a 2017 Limited 4x2...

    Congrats!

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  • surferdrewsurferdrew Member Posts: 9
    Was just quoted a MF of .0026 on a 2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium in Los Angeles. (was anticipating it would be at .0021)

    Can you provide the MF and Residual for a 36/12 for a 2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium in So Cal?

    (I had previously asked about TRD Pros but they are marked up so much higher than MSRP right now that its beyond my budget. Now trying with the TRD Off-Road Premium's)

    Thanks!
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195

    Was just quoted a MF of .0026 on a 2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium in Los Angeles. (was anticipating it would be at .0021)

    Can you provide the MF and Residual for a 36/12 for a 2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium in So Cal?

    (I had previously asked about TRD Pros but they are marked up so much higher than MSRP right now that its beyond my budget. Now trying with the TRD Off-Road Premium's)

    Thanks!

    I don't see a TRD Off-Road trim for the 4Runner. I see a TRAIL Premium - 36/12 residual is 66%

    MF is .00210 (we are pretty sure that is the standard MF from TFS this month; your dealer is either marking it up for profit, or quoting a higher MF until they run a credit check and lower it)

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  • surferdrewsurferdrew Member Posts: 9
    Alright, with a little more negotiation got this. Still wondering if I'm missing something though. Could you help provide perspective?

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (w/ KDSS)
    MSRP: $45,879 with options
    CAP cost: $42,578
    Residual Value: $27,805 (65%)
    MF: .0023 (on Tier 1 Credit doesn't this seem high?)
    $2000 upfront (includes first month)
    monthly: $635 ($584 + tax)





  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195

    Alright, with a little more negotiation got this. Still wondering if I'm missing something though. Could you help provide perspective?

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (w/ KDSS)
    MSRP: $45,879 with options
    CAP cost: $42,578
    Residual Value: $27,805 (65%)
    MF: .0023 (on Tier 1 Credit doesn't this seem high?)
    $2000 upfront (includes first month)
    monthly: $635 ($584 + tax)





    I get $521/mo plus tax with those numbers.

    Confirm the adjusted cap cost the dealer is using - if higher than the selling price, find out what's been added.

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  • icejamesicejames Member Posts: 9
    edited February 2017
    Requesting some Info (Irvine Ca)

    2017 4 Runner 4x4 Limited
    MSRP 46,409
    12000 milers per year
    36 month :
    48 month : dealer show 55%
    60 month : dealer show 45%

    your info
    Risidual Value :
    MF :

    and capital cost was 42,900 with tax everything (DMV and other fees)
    come out to $581 per 48 month with TAX on their computer is this right?

    when i calculated, i am getting 532 per 48 month (with TAX)

    Another One
    2017 4 Runner 4x4 TRD PRO
    MSRP 43,710
    12000 milers per year
    36 month :
    48 month :
    60 month :
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195
    icejames said:

    Requesting some Info (Irvine Ca)

    2017 4 Runner 4x4 Limited
    MSRP 46,409
    12000 milers per year
    36 month :
    48 month : dealer show 55%
    60 month : dealer show 45%

    your info
    Risidual Value :
    MF :

    and capital cost was 42,900 with tax everything (DMV and other fees)
    come out to $581 per 48 month with TAX on their computer is this right?

    when i calculated, i am getting 532 per 48 month (with TAX)

    Another One
    2017 4 Runner 4x4 TRD PRO
    MSRP 43,710
    12000 milers per year
    36 month :
    48 month :
    60 month :

    .00210 is the MF for the 4Runner this month, all trims.

    4x4 Limited - 65% / 56% / 46%
    4x4 TRD PRO - 66% / 57% / 47%

    Assuming the tax rate is 7%, I get $532/mo with those prices, as well.

    I wouldn't lease anything past 36 months, in my opinion.

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  • surferdrewsurferdrew Member Posts: 9
    edited February 2017
    Thanks everyone for all your help.

    So helpful because it really reveals to me how many hidden costs there are and all the games dealers play.

    Here's the latest in SoCal and would love your input:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (loaded with all the options)

    Base Price: $39,295
    Delivery Processing: $950
    MSRP with options: $43,528
    Residual Value: $28,728
    MF: .0022
    36/12
    $1500 Driveoff (includes first month)
    Monthly including 9% tax: $631 

    When I plug the numbers into the calculators I get $572.37/month.

    Am I going crazy or am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance!
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195

    Thanks everyone for all your help.

    So helpful because it really reveals to me how many hidden costs there are and all the games dealers play.

    Here's the latest in SoCal and would love your input:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (loaded with all the options)

    Base Price: $39,295
    Delivery Processing: $950
    MSRP with options: $43,528
    Residual Value: $28,728
    MF: .0022
    36/12
    $1500 Driveoff (includes first month)
    Monthly including 9% tax: $631 

    When I plug the numbers into the calculators I get $572.37/month.

    Am I going crazy or am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance!

    What is the adjusted cap cost?

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  • surferdrewsurferdrew Member Posts: 9
    edited February 2017
    Michaell said:

    Thanks everyone for all your help.

    So helpful because it really reveals to me how many hidden costs there are and all the games dealers play.

    Here's the latest in SoCal and would love your input:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (loaded with all the options)

    Base Price: $39,295
    Delivery Processing: $950
    MSRP with options: $43,528
    Residual Value: $28,728
    MF: .0022
    36/12
    $1500 Driveoff (includes first month)
    Monthly including 9% tax: $631 

    When I plug the numbers into the calculators I get $572.37/month.

    Am I going crazy or am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance!

    What is the adjusted cap cost?
    Thanks! It's $44,295.75

    I've asked for a breakdown of where that extra comes from and still haven't heard back.
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195

    Michaell said:

    Thanks everyone for all your help.

    So helpful because it really reveals to me how many hidden costs there are and all the games dealers play.

    Here's the latest in SoCal and would love your input:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (loaded with all the options)

    Base Price: $39,295
    Delivery Processing: $950
    MSRP with options: $43,528
    Residual Value: $28,728
    MF: .0022
    36/12
    $1500 Driveoff (includes first month)
    Monthly including 9% tax: $631 

    When I plug the numbers into the calculators I get $572.37/month.

    Am I going crazy or am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance!

    What is the adjusted cap cost?
    Thanks! It's $44,295.75

    I've asked for a breakdown of where that extra comes from and still haven't heard back.
    If they don't want to be transparent, it might be time to find another dealer.

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  • surferdrewsurferdrew Member Posts: 9
    Michaell said:

    Michaell said:

    Thanks everyone for all your help.

    So helpful because it really reveals to me how many hidden costs there are and all the games dealers play.

    Here's the latest in SoCal and would love your input:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (loaded with all the options)

    Base Price: $39,295
    Delivery Processing: $950
    MSRP with options: $43,528
    Residual Value: $28,728
    MF: .0022
    36/12
    $1500 Driveoff (includes first month)
    Monthly including 9% tax: $631 

    When I plug the numbers into the calculators I get $572.37/month.

    Am I going crazy or am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance!

    What is the adjusted cap cost?
    Thanks! It's $44,295.75

    I've asked for a breakdown of where that extra comes from and still haven't heard back.
    If they don't want to be transparent, it might be time to find another dealer.
    Ended up going with a different dealer and brought a friend who gave me a front row seat to a masterclass in negotiation. After we did all our research, and from the help you all have provided, I was able to sign on this:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium Super White (KDSS + moonroof)
    Base Model: $39,295
    Delivery Processing and Handling: $960
    Optional Equipment: $2,290
    Total MSRP: $42,545

    This is where my friend got us to:

    Discount: $2075
    Adjusted Price: $40,470
    Doc Fee: $80
    Non Tax Fees: $402.75
    Net Price: $40,952.75
    36/12
    Drive Off (1st month, tax, title, smog, etc.): $1000

    /// Monthly (including tax)///: $553

    Considering the dealer started off at $660 and the lowest I had been able to get at any other dealer was $631, I've got to give thanks to you all and my buddy for making it happen at $553.

    Cheers!
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195

    Michaell said:

    Michaell said:

    Thanks everyone for all your help.

    So helpful because it really reveals to me how many hidden costs there are and all the games dealers play.

    Here's the latest in SoCal and would love your input:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (loaded with all the options)

    Base Price: $39,295
    Delivery Processing: $950
    MSRP with options: $43,528
    Residual Value: $28,728
    MF: .0022
    36/12
    $1500 Driveoff (includes first month)
    Monthly including 9% tax: $631 

    When I plug the numbers into the calculators I get $572.37/month.

    Am I going crazy or am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance!

    What is the adjusted cap cost?
    Thanks! It's $44,295.75

    I've asked for a breakdown of where that extra comes from and still haven't heard back.
    If they don't want to be transparent, it might be time to find another dealer.
    Ended up going with a different dealer and brought a friend who gave me a front row seat to a masterclass in negotiation. After we did all our research, and from the help you all have provided, I was able to sign on this:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium Super White (KDSS + moonroof)
    Base Model: $39,295
    Delivery Processing and Handling: $960
    Optional Equipment: $2,290
    Total MSRP: $42,545

    This is where my friend got us to:

    Discount: $2075
    Adjusted Price: $40,470
    Doc Fee: $80
    Non Tax Fees: $402.75
    Net Price: $40,952.75
    36/12
    Drive Off (1st month, tax, title, smog, etc.): $1000

    /// Monthly (including tax)///: $553

    Considering the dealer started off at $660 and the lowest I had been able to get at any other dealer was $631, I've got to give thanks to you all and my buddy for making it happen at $553.

    Cheers!
    Looks like a solid deal. 4Runners are not cheap to lease, as you can see.

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  • surferdrewsurferdrew Member Posts: 9
    edited February 2017
    Michaell said:
    Thanks everyone for all your help.

    So helpful because it really reveals to me how many hidden costs there are and all the games dealers play.

    Here's the latest in SoCal and would love your input:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (loaded with all the options)

    Base Price: $39,295
    Delivery Processing: $950
    MSRP with options: $43,528
    Residual Value: $28,728
    MF: .0022
    36/12
    $1500 Driveoff (includes first month)
    Monthly including 9% tax: $631 

    When I plug the numbers into the calculators I get $572.37/month.

    Am I going crazy or am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance!
    What is the adjusted cap cost?
    Thanks! It's $44,295.75 I've asked for a breakdown of where that extra comes from and still haven't heard back.
    If they don't want to be transparent, it might be time to find another dealer.
    Ended up going with a different dealer and brought a friend who gave me a front row seat to a masterclass in negotiation. After we did all our research, and from the help you all have provided, I was able to sign on this: 2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium Super White (KDSS + moonroof) Base Model: $39,295 Delivery Processing and Handling: $960 Optional Equipment: $2,290 Total MSRP: $42,545 This is where my friend got us to: Discount: $2075 Adjusted Price: $40,470 Doc Fee: $80 Non Tax Fees: $402.75 Net Price: $40,952.75 36/12 Drive Off (1st month, tax, title, smog, etc.): $1000 /// Monthly (including tax)///: $553 Considering the dealer started off at $660 and the lowest I had been able to get at any other dealer was $631, I've got to give thanks to you all and my buddy for making it happen at $553. Cheers!
    Looks like a solid deal. 4Runners are not cheap to lease, as you can see.
    Oy vey.

    Apparently they had already pre-sold the vehicle I had signed on this past Monday and have been scrambling all week to find a replacement.

    So far they haven't been able to locate a similar vehicle through their network. Though they've been proactive in looking, anybody else ever been in this situation or if not, any input as to what I should do? 

    I felt like like a got a good deal so don't want to walk away but also don't want to be a doormat and settle for different options, color, etc.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,778


    Michaell said:

    Thanks everyone for all your help.

    So helpful because it really reveals to me how many hidden costs there are and all the games dealers play.

    Here's the latest in SoCal and would love your input:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium (loaded with all the options)

    Base Price: $39,295
    Delivery Processing: $950
    MSRP with options: $43,528
    Residual Value: $28,728
    MF: .0022
    36/12
    $1500 Driveoff (includes first month)
    Monthly including 9% tax: $631 

    When I plug the numbers into the calculators I get $572.37/month.

    Am I going crazy or am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance!
    What is the adjusted cap cost?
    Thanks! It's $44,295.75

    I've asked for a breakdown of where that extra comes from and still haven't heard back.

    If they don't want to be transparent, it might be time to find another dealer.

    Ended up going with a different dealer and brought a friend who gave me a front row seat to a masterclass in negotiation. After we did all our research, and from the help you all have provided, I was able to sign on this:

    2017 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium Super White (KDSS + moonroof)
    Base Model: $39,295
    Delivery Processing and Handling: $960
    Optional Equipment: $2,290
    Total MSRP: $42,545

    This is where my friend got us to:

    Discount: $2075
    Adjusted Price: $40,470
    Doc Fee: $80
    Non Tax Fees: $402.75
    Net Price: $40,952.75
    36/12
    Drive Off (1st month, tax, title, smog, etc.): $1000

    /// Monthly (including tax)///: $553

    Considering the dealer started off at $660 and the lowest I had been able to get at any other dealer was $631, I've got to give thanks to you all and my buddy for making it happen at $553.

    Cheers!

    Looks like a solid deal. 4Runners are not cheap to lease, as you can see.

    Oy vey.

    Apparently they had already pre-sold the vehicle I had signed on this past Monday and have been scrambling all week to find a replacement.

    So far they haven't been able to locate a similar vehicle through their network. Though they've been proactive in looking, anybody else ever been in this situation or if not, any input as to what I should do? 

    I felt like like a got a good deal so don't want to walk away but also don't want to be a doormat and settle for different options, color, etc.

    I would start shopping elsewhere, but that doesn't mean you can't still see what they come up with. If it isn't to your liking, just kill the deal.

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  • gtx1967gtx1967 Member Posts: 10
    Do you have RV for 2017 4Runner Limited in NJ/PA?
    I believe the MF is .0022, correct?
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195
    gtx1967 said:

    Do you have RV for 2017 4Runner Limited in NJ/PA?
    I believe the MF is .0022, correct?

    What lease term and how many miles per year?

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • gtx1967gtx1967 Member Posts: 10
    36/12
    Thank you
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 193,195
    Michaell said:

    gtx1967 said:

    Do you have RV for 2017 4Runner Limited in NJ/PA?
    I believe the MF is .0022, correct?

    What lease term and how many miles per year?
    gtx1967 said:

    36/12
    Thank you

    65%

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • vladimir8vladimir8 Member Posts: 3
    Hi
    Can I get MF and RV for SR5 4x4 in NY
    24/12K and 36/12K
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