What about the future of Ford Inc??

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Comments

  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "Also notice that the Freestyle is the only Ford vehicle, besides trucks, to show an increase in sales for the year as compared to last year at this time!"

    Yes, but when the other crossovers come on-line it will give the Freestyle much more competition. The Freestyle, IMHO is one of the most mundane looking of them all.

    It's that Ford - it can't be exciting styling!
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "I think you're both missing the point. The fact that the Lincoln now arguably competes with the Acura, not the Cadillac, Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus makes me wanna barf."

    Well thats Fords fault that Lincoln has fallen out of touch in terms of "prestige" and the sales race with the likes of Mercedes, Caddy, and BMW because they let the current LS stay on the market too long. Lincoln hadn't updated their "design language" on their cars or put out any new models(i.e. passenger cars)to stand out in the market place since 2000 if you will until the current current Zephyr came out which is another reason that Lincoln has lost its "prestige" and has dropped in sales since the late 90's. I mean in 2004 the Linclon Town car it still looked like design wise it was stuck in the mid 90's somewhere. The Maruader looked like a 1985 design. During the last few years I always thought why isn't Ford giving Lincoln any new product to say competitive in the luxury market place? Ford needs to give Lincoln new product every 5-6 years instead of every 7.

    I'm not much interested in be competition for Buicks and Acuras - "I have long considered them to be "not enough" cars....."

    Lincoln isn;t even ahead of Acura in sales right now I don't think so Lincoln isn;t even competitive right now with Acura. I don;t even think Lincoln outsells Buick right now.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "For a long time, I didn't have much interest in the imports, they were IMO, clunky imitations of our Domestics. Ex; The Toyota Cressida reminded me so much of the Ford Fairmont from the sloppy handling, the rattletrap interior to the somewhat rough straight six engine - the only real differences were: The Cressida would run about twice as long with fewer repairs, and the Fairmont's doors actually shut much better, were tighter, but easier to close."

    I think the reason why you are complaininng about the Cressida is the Japanese didn't really have much experience in building a near luxury car until the mid 80's when the Acura Legend and top of the line Nissan Maxima came onto the market. An older guy I used to know told me the top of the line Maxima went for 20K I think in 1985. For the record I don't know what year the Cressida came onto the market. The Japanese were experienced in building small cars before the mid 80's came around so the Japanese just needed a little experience to build a good near luxury car.

    "Somewhere in that decade, that changed, and Asian cars got the rest of it down. Today, the only thing I think most of the Asian cars still lack, such as mine, is the driving experience. The fun. My Lexus is arguably the finest car I've ever owned, but it's about as much fun as a Monte Carlo......"

    I've driven domestics before and I personally don;t see them as fun to drive. I mean when I was learning how to drive at age 17 I drove a Ford Escort and a Ford Thunderbird. The Thunderbird was too big of a car for me. The Escort was ok to drive but fun? no. I also owned a mustang: it was alright. I than owned a Mazda: it was alright. The Acura has been the most fun.

    As far as the Lexus is concerned I don;t think Toyota intended to make the the LS 430 a fun to drive car. I would think the the current GS would handle with more agility than the LS does. I;m not saying the LS is a bad car..but I;m just saying its not meant to be a car that handles with great agility.

    "I'd rather have a Lincoln, but the LS is the only real sport sedan they have, and it's too small for my needs."

    What about the Zephyr? Do you look that car or no? The Zephyr is the LS's repacement right since the LS is getting the ax soon I think.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "True enough...some people buy them because they have bright new wheels Maybe if people started comparing and buying vehicles for more practical & intelligent reasons, Ford would do better."

    I think people buy Toyota's for practicality & intelligent reasons and not a Ford. Toyota doesn't have great exterior styling but the packaging in their(Toyota's) cars is what sells. Than gain, Ford is not Toyota.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I was comparing the Chevy Tahoe to the Ford Explorer...nothing to do with Toyota. I actually think that Toyota has lots of vehicles that are both practical and stylish.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "yes, but Mazda has not grown SALES numbers for about a decade.. it was covered recently over several sources.. they have kept steady some 250k units a year.."

    "their profits are up meaning they sell cars for good prices - people want them, but there aren ot attracting new customers..."

    "No one really knows why"

    Alright 10 years they haven't grown because back in 1995 they tried to be a direct competitor to Toyota and their sales numbers dropped dratically in the mid 90's from where they were in the 1986-1994 period. Mazda did pick up some sales growth during the 1998-2001 period in the US but that was mostly due to the strong US ecomonmy and the 1999 Protege but sales have stayed the same from 2001-2002. In 1999-present they(Mazda)decided to go back to where they were in the mid 80's/early 90's which was an enthusiast/niche product which has worked and brought Mazda up from being a Toyota wanna-be to winning respect and bringing their overall preception up amongst the buying public. In my opinion when Mazda tried to be a Toyota wanna-be that really killed them in why they haven't grown in sales in 10 years. The Ford tranny in the 626 didn't do them any favors either. Mazda did pick up some sales growth during the 1998-2001 period in the US but that was mostly due to the strong US ecomonmy and the 1999 Protege but sales have stayed the same from 2001-2002.

    -Another reason why Mazda hasn't grown saleswise is they didn't put enough interior room in the current 6. I think buyers just rejected the 6 because the Accord and Altima have alot more interior room.

    -I still think Mazda does gets tossed aside in favor of buyers going to Honda and Nissan because Honda and Nissan have a better perception of reliability. In reality Mazda is just as reliable as Nissan or even more reliable as evidenced by CR and JD Powers in the past few years. Nissan's reliability has really slipped on those 3 year old model by manufacturer surveys by JD Power. Mazda is usually ranked near the top of CR surveys but a little hehind Honda but Mazda ranks middle of the pack in JD Powers and nowhere close to Honda in JD. Basically, Mazda has to get their perecption up and JD Powers suveys on their reliability up. I don;t think Mazda has a bad perception amongst the buying public but just not as good as Honda or Nissan.

    -Another reason why Mazda grown in terms of sales numbers is their number of dealerships isn;t that great but Mazda has put more effort into making more dealerships and more single car dealerships as well for the brand ala like Honda/Acura and BMW have done throughout the years.

    -Can;t commed a big price premium like the Japanese Big 3 do. We all saw how the Millenia flopped in the mid 90's/early 00's and how the RX-8 can't commend its high 20K/low 30K price. Mazda just doesn't have the name to commend a big price premium at least not yet anyway.

    -No big SUV line-up like the Japanese Big 3 have.

    -No Maxima, 300, and Avalon competitor because again Mazda can't commed a big price premium. Chrysler somehow pulled off the impossible(pulling off a big price premium with the 300)with its below average reputation. Unlike Chrysler, Mazda can not market with the hip-hop crowd and at the same the baby boomers(who want to buy a Domestic Big 3 product only probably) the way Chrysler did with the 300. Can Mazda style something dramatic like the 300: No doubt they could do it but they will have trouble marketing it and commending a big price premium in my opinion for a near luxury car.

    "their profits are up meaning they sell cars for good prices - people want them, but there aren ot attracting new customers..."

    I think most of Mazda's profits come from the European market since their US sales numbers aren't that great.

    Mazda sales since 2000 in US:

    2000: 252K
    2001: 269K
    2002: 258K
    2003: 258K
    2004: 263K
    2005: 258K

    Mazda Protege/3 sales

    2001: 78K
    2002: 83K
    2003: 68K
    2004: 76K
    2005: 95K

    Mazda 626/6 sales

    2000: 71K
    2001: 50K
    2002: 40K
    2003: 65K
    2004: 72K
    2005: 71K

    On the postive side the CX-7 should add at least 20,000 units a year so they could go up to maybe 280K units a year instead of being stuck on 255K-265K units a year like they have been in the US for the past 5 years. A brand new 6 if with more interior room(if the product is executed correctly)could bring them up to 300K units a year in the US by 2010 by my estimates. A new Tribute will be out for the 08 model. The current one is kinda long in the tooth.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Toyota is going to sell TRAINLOADS of the new Camry. They did it again!! Why can't the BIG THREE DO IT?"

    The big 3 doesn;t have a big time selling mid-size car to throw at the Camry. Toyota has a great repuatation for reliability which the Big 3 don;t have. The Camry name has been around for 23-24 years in the US. The Fusion has been around for 3 months and the Pontiac G6 has been been around for a year and a half. Chrysler doesn't have a good mid-size car to throw at Toyota at the moment. The Chevy Malibu really doesn't sell well at retail.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I wonder what would have happened if Ford kept the Granada around and kept updating it like the Camry instead of changing names all the time. But I guess if a car name gets a bad rep the manufacturer dumps the name.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    >What about the Zephyr? Do you look that car or no? The Zephyr is the LS's repacement right since the LS is getting the ax soon I think.<

    Interesting question you ask me, carguy..... The Zephyr is a joke as a Lincoln, IMO. It insults me. From the prop rod to hold up the hood, to the elimination of the plasma instrument panel (ala; Navigator/Aviator), as well as the look. It's no where near the car the LS was, or the Continental even. It's too small for a Lincoln, has too weak an engine, and isn't prestigious looking enough to even get a yawn. No, the Zephyr was a great disappointment, and though I didn't expect a lot from the Mazda 6 platform under a Lincoln nameplate, it, more than anything else, defined the (mis)direction Lincoln is going in, and caused me to go ahead and buy a Lexus. Other than the Navigator, Lincoln is currently dead to me. I'd have had more faith in them, if they had stopped the duplication of the Fusion at Mercury. The Fusion is a good car, but it's not, nor should it ever be, a Lincoln.

    Remember the Cimarron? I do....... :mad:
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "The big 3 doesn;t have a big time selling mid-size car to throw at the Camry. Toyota has a great reputation for reliability which the Big 3 don;t have. The Camry name has been around for 23-24 years in the US. The Fusion has been around for 3 months and the Pontiac G6 has been been around for a year and a half. Chrysler doesn't have a good mid-size car to throw at Toyota at the moment. The Chevy Malibu really doesn't sell well at retail."

    I agree with everything you said. The only thing I may add is that "The Big Three" hasn't had a car to throw at the Camry in the last ten years.....(Remember the '96 Taurus).
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    The Zephyr is a joke as a Lincoln, IMO. It insults me.

    A prop rod hood??? Talk about about blowing it BIG TIME!! It should have had a bigger engine (exclusive to the Zephyr). Well we shouldn't give up hope as things will get better when it becomes a MKZ!!!! LOL

    Remember the Cimarron? I do

    Ah yeah the Cadillac Cadalier! Actually a friend of mine has an '88 (last year model). Of course it was a lot better car, but too little too late! Again that is typical GM! He still has it and loves it!
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Perhaps your friend with the 88 "Cadalier" would still like his Western Flyer wagon if it bore a "Cadillac" badge. ;)
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "I agree with everything you said. The only thing I may add is that "The Big Three" hasn't had a car to throw at the Camry in the last ten years.....(Remember the '96 Taurus)."

    The 96 Tarus wasn;t a horrible car. It was just the looks on the outside that killed its chance of selling well. The only thing is Ford let the car rot for 10 years with only basically cosmetic updates to the exterior and interior as well. There was a big exterior styling change for the 00 Tarus on the exterior but that was the only big change to the car since 96.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    Yeah you got that right!!! LOL
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "The Camry name has been around for 23-24 years in the US. The Fusion has been around for 3 months and the Pontiac G6 has been been around for a year and a half."

    That's one thing that just frustrates me to death - the abandonment of model names by domestic brands - as you stated, the Camry was developed, and lives on today, continually improved. For some reason, Taurus was abandoned years ago, now the model and the name dies, and at one time, that model name OWNED the mid size market.
    G-6 - more alpha-numeric soup to me, but Grand Am was invented in 76, and has sold remarkably well, despite the POS the car became. They abandon the model name, the G-6 has not yet sold at the level the Grand Am did. Why to they continually change names? The Fusion should have been the new Taurus, and may have resurrected the model, as this one is once again, very good, I hear.

    I just don't get it. But all new Fords have to start with an F. I'll leave it at that.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Yes, that is a comedown for Lincoln. But then Ford has basically said that Lincoln won't be competing with Cadillac, Mercedes or BMW.

    Platform sharing isn't necessarily a bad thing - look at the 1961 Thunderbird and the 1961 Lincoln Continental, or the 1967-71 Thunderbird Landau sedan and the 1968-71 Lincoln Continental Mark III.

    The Lincolns and the Thunderbirds are based on the same platform, but they are obviously aimed at different markets. The Continental and the Continental Mark III could only be Lincolns.

    The new Zephyr (or MKZ, or whatever it will be called next week), meanwhile, could just as easily be a Mercury.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    If Ford did a better job of keeping its models up to date, it wouldn't have to worry about new models being tainted by moldy nameplates.

    Honda brings out a new Civic and Accord every five years like clockwork. The names never become stale.

    By now, the Taurus nameplate has become synonomous with "rental fleet fodder." Any all-new model would bear the stigma of that worn-out nameplate. If Ford had kept the Taurus as up-to-date as the Accord, this wouldn't be an issue.

    As for the Fusion - it's not a bad name, but I would have preferred either "Falcon" or "Fairlane."
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "As for the Fusion - it's not a bad name, but I would have preferred either "Falcon" or "Fairlane."

    So would I.

    IMO, the Zephyr IS a Mercury. It's not worthy of a Lincoln- at least the Lincoln I remember. But, I'm not bitter.......
  • mopowahmopowah Member Posts: 68
    I'm not sure what Ford's plan is for Lincoln if they aren't going to compete with Cadillac, Mercedes, et all. Are they planning on revitalizing Jaguar and marketing that more as their "luxury" line? It sort of leaves Lincoln in limbo since it already has Mercury as a sort of upscale everyday car.
  • pnewbypnewby Member Posts: 277
    :sick: Looks like Merc is a knda Pontiac/Olds and Lincoln a Buick, with a little leak into the Caddy range.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Mercury and Ford will field different styled vehicles so that each one can be more focused to appeal to the intended market.

    The cars don't need different prices and equipment levels if they are stylied differently.

    Many people tell me they love the Mariner but hate the Escape.

    This is a cheap way for Ford to get the most out of its investments.

    Caddy has gone way up market compared to where it use to be. This is GMs only true Lux nameplate.

    Ford needs Lincoln to be a near lux name plate at the level of Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus.

    A revitalized Jag, Landrover and Volvo pretty much cover the Luxary market for Lincoln

    Lincoln needs to be distincly AMERICAN

    Mark.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Are they planning on revitalizing Jaguar and marketing that more as their "luxury" line?"

    Evidently, since the money from the sale of Hertz allegedly all went to Jaguar.....
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    But, I'm not bitter.......

    Oh, sure, you're not bitter! ;)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    We are here to discuss things automotive in nature, not lifestyles, and certainly not each other.

    Time to drop the personal stuff NOW.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    they have made 500 Shelby GTHs and sold them to Hertz, to be auctioned off after rental duty in early '07? This is to mimic the early rental Mustangs from the 60s, of course. Very cute idea. I wonder if any of those 500 cars made it to a Hertz near me. I would ante up for one day just to check it out. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    They're apparently likely to be at airports, and in big cities.

    A good idea to generate "buzz" I think, and pretty cool that one can rent a V8 Mustang again. Ford wisely isn't offering them with manual transmissions this time, though they do have the same paint scheme. :shades:
  • pnewbypnewby Member Posts: 277
    :shades: OK, if Ford would like to get things moving, they only need to design and manufacture an exciting new performance sedan, as good for today as the original LS was in '99, then hire jroger13 to promote the vehicle, and whip up a growing fan club. Then, unlike last time, give him the support and upgrade the vehicle so it continues to grow a larger following. I've never witnessed anything quite like the 1st LS when it was a leading edge vehicle, and had sombody like Jack Rogers to promote it. I would venture to say it was the fastest growing forum on Edmunds, had it's own fan club with factory sponsered events, and an advocate for the issues that came up with a completely new car. The issues that would have been a deal breaker for most new cars didn't seem nearly so bad when there was a FMC exec. willing to help you get them fixed if you were having trouble. I had my local service dept. ask me how I got attention from a Lincoln VP on one problem I had. I've seen several of the original members of the LS forum in here, and I venture to say they agree with me.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Oh, I agree with you - problem is, Ford lost money on every one of those LSs that they sold. In short order, they realized the fewer they sell, the less they lose. Now it's cancelled. It was possibly the finest engineered car for the money on the planet - but overengineered for a Lincoln price point. As a Jaguar, it's profitable, but can't be in the Lincoln showroom.

    It wouldn't have hurt to make it a little better looking either...IMO. But again, why promote a losing proposition?
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    It is a shame about the LS. I'm really enjoying mine so far, after 23,000 miles. A Lincoln dealer told me a few years back he expected to see the LS platform stretched and modified and sold as a Continental. Obviously, that's not going to happen.

    Any idea apx. how much Ford lost on each LS sold? (I realize that's probably too broad a question - with all of the discounts, rebates, etc. on the various models, what basis does one use.)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, the similar car on same platform, the Jaguar S-Type sells for about $12,000 more than sticker of the LS was. If they could have sold them for sticker, they may have been ok, with some profit, or at least break even. But they had to discount the LS often and deeply to move what they had....they never sell for sticker. You have possible the best value for the money on the road there. It was a groundbreaking platform when it was designed.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    Ford lost money on every one of those LSs that they sold.

    WOW, dejavue! I know these are DIFFERENT times. But that reminds me of the '56 Mark (the REAL Mark!) 2 all over again. Ford lost money on everyone of those they sold.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I think the Deuce expected to lose money on the Marks, but this LS debacle was a result of Nasser's view of the future being reversed by Bill, and the LS was not funded, developed, improved, etc. So, it was decontented in an effort to stop the bleeding, manual transmission was dropped, rain sensing wipers, etc. Didn't work. Not enough.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    In the May 13th issue of &#147;The Economist&#148; an article entitled &#147;General Motors &#150; Decline and Fall, cont&#146;d&#148; ends with the assessment that GM may need a generation to restore its image, and GM doesn&#146;t have a generation. Much the same could be said about Ford. Ford needs to enhance its image in the minds of consumers. Now, given the following:

    1) Ford is discontinuing the T-Bird (again).
    2) Lincoln is discontinuing the LS.
    3) Jaguar is redesigning the S-Type.
    4) Does this mean the platform on which they&#146;re based is to be discontinued, or is it to be used as the basis for some new car?

    I&#146;ll grant the platform was too over-engineered and costly for the LS to be profitable at the price points at which they ultimately sold. But, Ford should take it, tweak the T-Bird into a proper Mark for Lincoln, and use it to highlight all of Ford&#146;s cutting edge technology. As a Mark it could probably get a better price than could the LS. Even if it is a loss-leader, like the &#145;56/&#146;57 Mark IIs, the advantage to Lincoln (and to Ford) would be to get some of the old brand cache back. If Ford doesn&#146;t want Lincoln to compete with Jaguar, they could use a Jaguar sedan to showcase cutting edge technology, and the two cars wouldn&#146;t compete because they&#146;d target different buyers.

    Wishful thinking, I know. But, using Lincoln to highlight technology will have more lasting perceptual benefits for Ford overall, which they need in order to compete with the imports. Almost anyone knows Lincoln is a Ford, whereas I&#146;d bet many still don&#146;t know Jaguar is a Ford. At least GM can throw its technology into Cadillac, which everyone knows is a GM.

    There are many things they need to do. This is just one thought which occurred to me when I saw a T-Bird at the park today.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You won't like this answer, texan....

    The T-Bird lost more money than the LS, and really wasn't that great a performance car. It was kind of weak in power, and shimmied too much as the DEW-98 platform wasn't designed for a convertible version at inception. It's a real looker though, and I wish I had one, just for the fun of it.

    The DEW-98 platform is being discontinued, and the replacement cars will either go forward with the DEW-lite platform which the Mustang sits on. It's the DEW-98, with some of the over-engineering removed, but improved in stiffness and some other things. The Mustang is an excellent performer in all handling areas, due mostly to the DEW-lite underpinnings.

    The Jaguar S-type may be unique, I don't know yet. But the rear drive cars will stay with DEW-lite for now. They handle very well, and are affordable to make.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Well then, how about taking the DEW-lite platform and making a proper Mark for Lincoln... halo car, advanced technology showcase, etc.

    I know. It won't happen. :mad:
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    No such thing. DEW-lite was the way Ford was going to go with the Mustang but that ship allegedly was 1 billion over budget.

    The Mustang that is on the market now is built of a on a modified version of the Ford C1 platform from the Mazda3/Focus(European)/Volvo V40 called D2C.

    Please visit this link before responding.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_D2C_platform

    IMHO it seems that everything good car wise with Ford right now can be traced back to Mazda.

    Mark.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Ok - interesting contradiction of what the Ford engineer told me.... but one of them is correct. The question I have is, a RWD Mazda, eh? Would that be the RX-8? Rear driving Mazdas are pretty rare these days.....
  • nitephirenitephire Member Posts: 11
    All of the vehicles that he named have more overall equipment then the Fusion. Which equals weight. I dont think that anyone would argue against a car loosing 300lbs in the name of better gas mileage, performance and spirit.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    More overall equipment/fetaures do not necessarily add much in extra weight to a vehicle. Most of the NAV systems, high end stereo systems,and other electronic gadgetry add very little weight. I still contend in this size class Fusion is not overweight compared to the competition, which is contrary to your initial statement.

    Sure, losing several hundred pounds is a noble goal for any manufacturer, but there are other considerations. Some of the added weight is due to stiffened body structure, which can translated into better handling and better safety performance.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I agree - there is only so much weight the car can lose before you're giving up some of the value of the car. Besides, in today's driving environment, I want some weight around me when I get plowed into by that Excursion!
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    The DEW-98 platform is being discontinued, and the replacement cars will either go forward with the DEW-lite platform which the Mustang sits on.

    The replacement car will be the MKS, which will share the Ford Five Hundred's Volvo based platform. The MKS will probably debut in about 2 years. Despite rumors about a Mustang based Lincoln coupe or convertible, the only confirmed RWD Lincoln is the Navigator. It appears that the Town Car will die when the Wixom plant closes.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    So no Town Car or suitable replacement until the MKS comes out, which will not be good for a limo. Ford is now doing exactly what GM and Chrysler did in the 90's - abandoning the Livery market.... Great move......Way to go, Bill!
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Ford repeatedly and continues to confirm that the Panther platform isn't going anywhere until after 2010.

    The Panther program got a brand new frame in 2003. Although the layout of the car is 30 years old there is still plenty of life in the underpinnings.

    What Ford needs to do is put a decently designed body on the car.

    Mark.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Ford repeatedly and continues to confirm that the Panther platform isn't going anywhere until after 2010.

    The rumors I have read are that CV/GM will continue, but Town Car can't be produced easily at the St. Thomas plant, and it may die in a year or two. I hope that is not the case, but the TC doesn't seem as appealing as it did 10 years ago.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The Town Car needs work, especially inside, IMO, but abdicating the livery market seems dumb to me. Closing Wixom seems dumb to me, though. Anyway, here are the Top 20 vehicles in the U.S. market

    as of June 2, 2006

    May 2006 May 2005 Chng. '06 YTD '05 YTD Chng.

    1 Ford F - Series PU 70,175 74,494 -5.8% 334,725 335,269 -0.2%
    2 Chevrolet Silverado PU 55,316 60,473 -8.5% 258,378 274,869 -6.0%
    3 Toyota Camry / Hybrid 43,112 39,951 7.9% 177,090 178,890 -1.0%
    4 Toyota Corolla / Matrix 41,550 31,152 33.4% 159,992 147,146 8.7%
    5 Honda Accord / Hybrid 36,967 30,698 20.4% 145,529 143,304 1.6%
    6 Dodge Ram PU 29,599 38,051 -22.2% 150,799 163,094 -7.5%
    7 Honda Civic / Hybrid 29,006 24,765 17.1% 138,744 115,577 20.0%
    8 Chevrolet Impala 23,702 19,411 22.1% 114,014 107,181 6.4%
    9 Dodge Caravan 22,685 22,115 2.6% 103,876 103,811 0.1%
    10 Nissan Altima 21,981 23,900 -8.0% 102,785 108,237 -5.0%
    11 Chevrolet Cobalt 21,247 23,649 -10.2% 93,023 75,537 23.1%
    12 Ford Focus 20,391 18,047 13.0% 80,559 82,963 -2.9%
    13 GMC Sierra PU 17,756 19,255 -7.8% 80,957 87,210 -7.2%
    14 Chrysler Town & Country 17,326 17,194 0.8% 68,943 78,350 -12.0%
    15 Hyundai Sonata 17,035 8,043 111.8% 75,622 46,974 61.0%
    16 Honda Odyssey 16,887 16,412 2.9% 72,941 71,878 1.5%
    17 Ford Taurus 16,786 20,502 -18.1% 83,287 92,879 -10.3%
    18 Ford Explorer 16,717 19,539 -14.4% 77,205 105,925 -27.1%
    19 Chevrolet TrailBlazer 15,573 22,556 -31.0% 71,751 87,847 -18.3%
    20 Ford Mustang 15,559 19,721 -21.1% 72,119 81,541 -11.6%

    What a flip from last year - only 2 SUVs in the group, and they're both losing ground, although the Trailblazer is losing much faster than the Explorer is.....
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    May auto sales

    June 2, 2006

    U.S. light-vehicles sales totals, individual automaker results and market share for May compared to May 2005:
    MAY 2004 Maker volume % change from 2005 % mkt share YTD
    volume % change from 2005 YTD % mkt share

    GM 338,411 -12.5% 22.7% 1,628,524 -8.0% 23.7%
    Ford 277,157 -2.0% 18.6% 1,274,895 -3.5% 18.5%
    Toyota 235,708 17.0% 15.8% 1,000,524 8.8% 14.6%
    DaimlerChrysler 212,912 -8.4% 14.3% 1,037,883 -1.0% 15.1%
    Honda 141,810 16.1% 9.5% 614,778 8.6% 8.9%
    Nissan 86,667 -7.3% 5.8% 436,614 -3.0% 6.4%
    Hyundai 42,514 5.2% 2.9% 189,527 4.5% 2.8%
    Volkswagen 29,652 28.5% 2.0% 130,060 18.7% 1.9%
    BMW 28,390 5.4% 1.9% 129,661 9.9% 1.9%
    Mazda 27,321 2.5% 1.8% 116,977 3.6% 1.7%
    Kia 26,494 3.9% 1.8% 119,134 2.7% 1.7%
    Subaru 16,406 13.3% 1.1% 77,546 2.9% 1.1%
    Mitsubishi 11,821 3.9% 0.8% 48,357 -12.3% 0.7%
    Suzuki 10,135 35.9% 0.7% 47,443 37.3% 0.7%
    Porsche 3,272 -0.6% 0.2% 15,730 15.9% 0.2%
    Isuzu 638 -47.7% 0.0% 3,973 -37.0% 0.1%
    Maserati 219 13.5% 0.0% 890 25.7% 0.0%
    Ferrari 137 10.5% 0.0% 568 20.3% 0.0%

    TOTAL 1,489,664 -0.7% 100.0% 6,873,084 -0.4% 100.0%

    GM includes Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Hummer, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saab and Saturn. Ford includes Lincoln, Mercury, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin. DaimlerChrysler includes Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Mercedes and Maybach. Volkswagen includes Audi and Bentley. BMW includes Mini and Rolls-Royce. Toyota includes Lexus and Scion. Honda includes Acura. Nissan includes Infiniti.

    Figures are not adjusted for selling days.

    Source: Autodata Corp.
  • cticti Member Posts: 131
    15 Hyundai Sonata 17,035 8,043 111.8% 75,622 46,974 61.0%

    :surprise: :surprise:

    Either the new one is really good. Or the old one was really bad by the time they replaced it.

    Except for the TrailBlazer and Taurus, the other 18 (or 19 if you consider the Matrix different than the Corolla) are decent cars. Some may not be great, but they are at least decent. And I'm guessing the Taurus is only there because of rental sales.

    Ford must be really sad there is no 500 there. And not ONE Dodge or Chrysler car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yeah, surprisingly the new Sonata really has outsold the old one, which, IMO, wasn't a bad offering at all. I've bought a bunch of them over the past few years - never seen a bad one yet.

    The Taurus is ONLY being sold to fleets this year, you can't buy one at your local Ford dealer if you want to. But they are sold new to fleets for a song..... They sell at the auction for the same song 6 months later. I'd post the figures, but I did that once before and about got lacqered to the wall.....

    Surprised the 300C isn't there??? So am I. Not surprised the 500 isn't there.....
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I see you have a Mazda 3. Just thought I'd add that I've purchased a few of those for friends as well, and I think they're unsurpassed in their class. They have some great trick things inside, and really perform, while looking awesome on the outside. I love it when somebody wants one. They go for a premium though....you can get even Toyota Corollas that are comparable for less.

    Hope you like it. I bought one for my niece - she and her husband just love it.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    its a top ten fleet seller so don't be fooled by its total sales numbers.
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