What about the future of Ford Inc??

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  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    ...that Ford has taken care of its major supplier problem (Visteon) whereas GM is still facing a huge bill on Delphi no matter what happens with the negotiations. Ford stepped up last year and resolved the Visteon situation, and part of the hit they took first quarter was because of that. GM instead dithered on Delphi and let it go bankrupt - and now they are staring at a big bill whatever happens (strike or resolution). All the financial experts that are so bullish on GM seem to forget this fact. Yeah, GM did better than Ford the first quarter - let's see how the year ends up.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Yeah, GM did better than Ford the first quarter - let's see how the year ends up."

    You're so right, mirth. It's ALL about the last quarter, isn't it? You are a hero, or a goat and just as good as your last quarter. I've lived my life that way for 30 years....and I've been both.

    I've lost confidence in Bill Ford, honestly. I don't think he's making the right moves to fix his problems and his leadership doesn't appear to be that strong. But I have less faith in GM's ability to change in time to save them. Lutz (originally a Ford man, then Chrysler, remember that) may know what he needs to do, but it's so hard to get an elephant that size to tap dance. Bill Ford has the advantage of at least being able to be a benevolent Dictator if he chooses, and he should do so. But Lutz is only the Chairman. I know how much actual power that gives you down at the end of the line.

    Henry Ford was a crazy man, but he knew how to make a point. LIke when he smashed Edsel's new model with a hammer - he nearly killed his son, but he made his point.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    I was just a toddler when that ad campaign started, but a few years later a friend's family bought a used 1966 Galaxie LTD hardtop sedan (maroon with a white top and black "panty cloth" interior).

    They later traded it on a used 1970 Mercury Marquis four-door hardtop (white with a green vinyl roof). Both cars seemed much quieter and "plusher" than my parents' 1965 Chevy Bel Air station wagon and 1967 Oldsmobile Delmont 88 hardtop sedan.

    When I was a kid in the early 1970s, Ford ads always stressed the quietness of its full-size and intermediate cars. As a budding car enthusiast, I paid attention to all of those ads!

    I also remember the Matchbox police car and fire chief car - which were 1965 Ford Galaxie sedans. Matchbox liked Fords, as I remember the Galaxies, along with the 1959 Thunderbird, 1959 Country Sedan, 1965 Mustang fastback and 1968 Ford F-150 pickup. Try to buy a mint one of those models today, and you'll shell out some fairly big bucks!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,528
    And a 56 Ford Country Sedan and a 61 Galaxie, along with a ca. 64 Continental, and I think there was a 68 Mercury too. Not to mention all the British Fords they made as well. The brand must have seemed exciting then.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Both GM and Ford were of great interest to me growing up. Not so much Chrysler - they were always the "oddball looking" brand. Lancers come to mind. But as the neighborhood budded with new Oldsmobiles, Cadillacs, Lincolns, Pontiacs, Fords and Chevys, I would always go inspect the new cars carefully. Fords and Oldsmobiles were my favorites at the the time - not that they were very similar.... Ford always seemed to have the cool ads, and slogans.

    Mercury, the Man's car..... (oh boy)
    Make your move to Ford, this year.
    Ford has a better idea (with a lightbulb)
    and finally, Have you driven a Ford, lately?

    GM just advertised Chevy the most, as I recall.

    It was a war.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    I disagree that Ford should bring over the Euro Focus. The last thing Ford needs is a $19,000 to $22,000 Focus.

    Have you noticed how Expensive the Mazda3s are?

    Being an American car means you need to have a big interior for the money.

    The Focus we have still has one of the best suspensions and best driving dynamics in its class. Only the Mazda3 and the Honda Civic are better and these cars are definately more expensive.

    The packaging on the Focus is very good in terms of how the interior works. Nice tall drivign position with good visability. The materials and style though is totally Hertz rent-a-car.

    What Focus needs to get is a better interior. A Better automatic transmission. Updated exterior styling.

    There really isn't 2 much wrong with the Focus and it is a great value overall.

    For under $16,000; you can get an SE with full power accessories and an automatic transmission. Thats Honda Fit price territory for a much bigger car with much better performance.

    I have never heard from somebody who owned a Focus who hated it.

    Mark.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Remember the Chevy Magazine ad for the Blazers that showed the Blazer in life boat divets on a ship...not bad until you read the caption which was "Like a rock"

    Yeah driving a Chevy is like using a rock for a life boat.

    Mark.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Personally, the Focus disappoints me in several areas - the engine is a little noisy for me, the trunk closes rather poorly, and the interior as you say, is el-cheapo. But, I must also agree that I've never met a Focus owner who was unhappy, so they must be reliable and run great. I hear they don't quit easily.

    GM has had some famous bad ads - like their ad for the Escalade, barreling through the snowdrifts - in Miami?????
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    A link in the "Where is Ford Taking Lincoln?" thread mentioned the future direction of Lincoln advertising, focusing on the consumer rather than the car. "Lifestyle advertising." A poor choice I think because it doesn't play up the strengths of the brand.

    Now, bear with me. There's an interesting article in the latest "The Economist" Technology Quarterly, titled "Brainpower Under the Bonnet." It discusses the use of an artificial neural network in the engine to control idle speed, detect misfires, and minimize fuel consumption. The result is a cleaner, more efficient engine, and such networks will be used to manage valve timing to optimize torque, fuel consumption and emissions at different speeds under different loads. Who is on the forefront of such technology? Ford. It's used in their Aston Martins and Econoline vans, and it'll eventually trickle down to their other brans.

    It's this kind of information, showing Ford on the cutting edge of technology, which needs to be showcased in their advertising. That, and the cars. Not some fluffy country club scene with Buffy and Chip, or gritty urban scene with hip, young rockers. Advertise to the strength of the cars!

    I wish Ford would find a different advertising direction.

    Rant over.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Over fifty years ago, Ford wanted the world to know they lead in the sales of "ragtops" so their ad agency came up with a little pig tailed girl pushing a doll buggy with a black Scotty dog along side.

    The only convertible that outsells Ford. ;)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Excellent points, both of you. The only thing better than a "gotta have it" ad, is a clever ad. VW used to have the best ads, like "53 years getting the Bugs out", and showed a Beetle only.....

    Ford's ads have stunk for years - they should fire that agency and get Honda's agency or somebody else.

    Good ads interest potential new buyers - and make current owner feel reinforced by their decision and proud to own.
    That ad Ford uses right now with the kid and his dad in the Mustang GT, ripping the road up with it is great. Mustang owners I know love it, and potential buyers do too. It appeals to the boomers (dads) and the kids. But otherwise, I haven't seen much in Ford ads that move me. At least, the current Lincoln Navigator ad is good - it shows the car, the features, and calls it the "ultimate power drive". As a former 2x Navigator owner, it makes me wanna go do it a third time.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,528
    It seems lameo ad campaigns are a malady suffered by all of the domestics, not just Ford. I wonder what's up with that?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I don't know, but I'd have to blame the ad agency. Also, Bill for buying their lame ideas, but from what I know of big-Advertising, it's up to them to assess the market, and steer management toward success.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    impression that they want their ads to be politically correct, but that is not what sells cars to the masses, IMO...

    While Toyota advertises the Prius as PC, they also have the $$$ from Camry sales and other hot selling models so that they can AFFORD to be PC...I do not believe that GM and Ford have that luxury...

    And, it seems to me that Chrysler (Benz?) is gaining by advertising their new models, all based on the 300, with the Hemi engine, high horsepower, moderate MPG, but never PC...

    Why can't they see that???...sure, it does not hurt to say that the 2007 Avalanche get better mpg with more HP than, say, the F150, or whatever, but they do not seem to zero in on the "fun to drive and I gotta get myself behind the wheel of one of those" type of ads...

    Owning 2 American cars now, and having owned Hondas in the past, and liked their quality and reliability, I just cannot see why the Big 3 (2?) cannot find a marketing niche, altho I am glad they gave up the "Buy American and save your neighbor's job" crap because they finally realized that no one will buy junk just to save their neighbor's job, but they will buy a car that they can depend on regardless of who makes it...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,528
    It's just sad that we get one lame ad campaign after another. Save for the Mustang ad, all the "Bold Moves" spots I've seen have been kinda weird. And Ford isn't alone in the guilt...the "American Revolution" is the most tiresome campaign in the land. Revolution? Where? But they still run with it.

    All commercials can be lame, but it seems Honda and Toyota have a cool one at least now and then.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    I don't understand their whole new bold moves campaign. I like the "Have You Driven a Ford lately theme" alot better than "bold moves". "Bold Moves" isn't catchy at all to me like "Have You Driven a Ford lately."

    Another thing wrong with Fords ads of late is having Kelly Clarkson(the singer) doing an ad for Ford esxpecially for the Mustang I think. I don;t think a performer like Kelly Clarkson is a target for people who are going to buy Fords especially a Mustang. I like Derek Jeter and Spike Lee doing the Mustang commercial in NY/NJ area markets though.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "And Ford isn't alone in the guilt...the "American Revolution" is the most tiresome campaign in the land. Revolution? Where? But they still run with it."

    I liked the "American Revolution" commercials when they were fresh and new but I think Chevy needs a new fresh theme to replace "American Revolution". I think its funny when you said revolution? Where?.

    "All commercials can be lame, but it seems Honda and Toyota have a cool one at least now and then."

    Toyota commercials are some of the weakest advertising I have seen. Their advertising for the new Camry isn;t half bad though. The "moving foward theme" that Toyota uses in their commercials theme for the new Camry isn't bad either. It seems like Toyota has hired a good advertsising agency for their ads for their new Camry. Honda ads-most of them can be ok but sometimes Honda has a cheesey ad every now and then.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    cheesiest ad is the one with the crab approaching the Element, saying, "I pinch, I pinch"...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,528
    I want to know about these revolutionary GM products. Maybe I missed them.

    The Honda talking cartoon guy was horribly annoying and some Civic ads have been lame, but the Fit ads have been cool.

    The song Toyota had in their "moving forward" campaign as as bad as the Subaru song, but the Yaris ads are cool.

    Unfortunately for Ford, those highlights are few and far between.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    I just cannot see why the Big 3 (2?) cannot find a marketing niche.

    IMO they have GM: Large SUVs (especiallly Escalade) Ford:Taxi/Police CVs, Chrysler: Hemi engines).
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "I want to know about these revolutionary GM products. Maybe I missed them."

    Well their Caddy line of the past few years and new SUV line have been well recieved. Its just GM's 15K-25K cars that don't get well recieved by the buying public it seems.

    "The Honda talking cartoon guy was horribly annoying and some Civic ads have been lame, but the Fit ads have been cool."

    Yeah the cartoon guy was corny. Yeah the Fit ads are pretty good when the guy says something and than says the Fit is go near the end of the commercial. I just like the voice-over near the emd of the Fit commercial.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    "American Revolution" commercials

    Didn't one of those commercials show a car transporter loaded with cars skidding across wet payment? I liked that one.

    Remember the VW "farvegnugen" ads?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,528
    I see those lineups as evolution over revolution. Caddy has done well, but 'art & science' is being copied by nobody and it is even being toned down, so I don't see it as being revolutionary. The industry isn't in awe. Same for the SUVs...the new ones look great, but the old ones were archaic, so it's just a new generation, not something to redefine the segment. If GM could come up with a 1986 Taurus or even a 1983 T-Bird, I would give the line some credit.

    Of course, Ford needs that Taurus just as badly. I shudder to think at how poorly they'd market it though. They still haven't said a word about their flex-fuel cars, which have been around for quite some time.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Well their Caddy line of the past few years and new SUV line have been well recieved. Its just GM's 15K-25K cars that don't get well recieved by the buying public it seems."

    Ok, they have some "revolutionary" cars in the Cadillac line, at least revolutionary for Cadillac. But the new GMT900 SUVs are hardly revolutionary! They just finally got a nice interior in them - and the squared up and lifted the bodies to look just like an Expedition. They didn't figure out yet how to hide the rear seat in the floor, which Ford introduced in 03. Hardly revolutionary. Same old engines and trannies, nothing new there.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Well, you do make a good point...
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Same for the SUVs...the new ones look great, but the old ones were archaic, so it's just a new generation, not something to redefine the segment. If GM could come up with a 1986 Taurus or even a 1983 T-Bird, I would give the line some credit. "

    Well Gm has always had good selling SUV's. Their bread and butter sedans(15K-25K price range) sell awfully and as usual with GM cars(15K-25K price range) for the past 5-10 years they have been rental fleets specials. I know GM has reduced rental fleet sales but in my opinion GM despite reducing rental fleet sales its not going to help their retail sales of the Grand Prix, Malibu, and G6 any. The only benefit I see for GM reducing rental fleet sales is that it may help Gm cars residual/resale value.

    Sorry, If I mislead you guys I didn't mean to say that GM's SUV's or Caddy line is revoultionary I just meant that GM's new caddy line has sold well and GM's SUV's have always been good sellers. The Caddy CTS falls a little bit short in interior fit and finish in my opinion and yes I have sat in the CTS a couple times.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,528
    The worst part about it is GM needs that revolution...and we're getting evolution. At least it is positive, instead of the backwads steps that were taken for so long.

    I don't know if Ford is going backwards or just being kind of stagnant. Neither are good when the competition is moving forward.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    " I know GM has reduced rental fleet sales but in my opinion GM despite reducing rental fleet sales its not going to help their retail sales of the Grand Prix, Malibu, and G6 any."

    Are you sure? Ford scaled back their rental sales a few years ago drastically, surrendering the leadership position in total units to Chevy. Now, if GM has reduced rental fleet sales - who is selling cars to the rental fleets? Chrysler? Yes, they are. Toyota, some. Honda, NEVER! Nissan, yes, but they always did. Mazda, yes.

    Just see so many G6s LaCrosses, Impalas, Cobalts and Lucernes on the rental lots, it's hard to believe GM has cut sales to rental fleets.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Are you sure? Ford scaled back their rental sales a few years ago drastically, surrendering the leadership position in total units to Chevy. Now, if GM has reduced rental fleet sales - who is selling cars to the rental fleets? Chrysler? Yes, they are. Toyota, some. Honda, NEVER! Nissan, yes, but they always did. Mazda, yes.

    Just see so many G6s LaCrosses, Impalas, Cobalts and Lucernes on the rental lots, it's hard to believe GM has cut sales to rental fleets."

    Well, from what I read from GM sales reports on the internet from the last 2 months GM has in fact cut sales to rental fleets. Wether this (cutting sales to rental fleets) is a temporary thing or permenant thing its remains to be seen. In one of the press releases that I have read about GM cutting rental fleets sales the past 2 months is GM has a few cars that are selling well at retail so in my opinion this is probably why GM may have decided to cut rental fleet at least for the time being.

    As for Ford scaling back their sales to rental fleets I don;t know about that. I think the Focus is a rental fleet car to due its old age since it came out for the 2000 model year and except for a mid-cycle refresh for the 05 model year the car has not seen a new bodystyle intorduction in the US. The Tarus was a retal fleet car special also for the past few years at least. I think Ford's sales to rental fleets accounted for 25% of its total sales from Sept 05 to Jan 06 which is still a pretty high number. I know the Ford 500 has not seen extreme fleet sales like the Tarus did as you have said yourself in a past post on this particular thread.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Has Ford sold Hertz yet, or is it still theirs? :confuse:
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "The worst part about it is GM needs that revolution...and we're getting evolution. At least it is positive, instead of the backwads steps that were taken for so long."

    Yeah true I agree.

    "I don't know if Ford is going backwards or just being kind of stagnant. Neither are good when the competition is moving forward."

    I think Ford is stagnant right now at least for the moment anyway. They needs a new Focus compact car. They need a new generation Ranger pick-up. The Lincoln brand needs a long overdue overhaul in terms of product. Many of these things above that I have mentioned have been documented before in this particular thread. On the postive side the 500 is getting the refresh tweaks that its needs soon. I belive Ford will have a new generation Ranger Pick-up soon(just don;t know when)because there have been photo's of a new Ranger pick-up on this particular thread. The new Fusion has been selling well I think. Lincoln-except for the Zeyphr there's nothing with new with Lincoln I don;t think.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Has Ford sold Hertz yet, or is it still theirs?"

    I think they have sold Hertz yeah.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    One of the first vehicles under new development process offers a bold minivan alternative.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060621/AUTO01/606210400/- 1148

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    • NEW PLANT: Going to Mexico? No decision coming anytime soon
    • VEHICLES: More focus on cars after maker relied too much on trucks
    • UAW: 2007 contract is crucial, but he has faith in Gettelfinger


    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060621/BUSINESS01/606210342/10- 14

    Rocky

    P.S. Young 15' yr. old Ford thinks dad is stuck in glue :surprise: Not alot of confidence in ol' Billionaire dad, eh ? I'd send him to his room. :P
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Bill has sold Hertz - Hertz made money - another great idea from Bill.....sell the #1 Car Rental agency in the world, where, by the way, you can dump your excess inventory easily if you need to without taking a big hit. Brilliant, Bill! I hear he used all of that money for Jaguar...hope that pays off.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Bill, is likeable. I don't understand with a flexible UAW why he can build the cars here. the same goes for Rick Wagoner of GM. Maybe someday all the recalls on quality will catch up with them. ;)

    Rocky
  • albert6albert6 Member Posts: 52
    The question is, since neural networks are constantly adjusting to varying conditions, how will anyone ever figure what broke? With all the extra controls it seems likely that something will.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    ""Bill.....sell the #1 Car Rental agency in the world ... Brilliant, Bill! I hear he used all of that money for Jaguar...hope that pays off."

    He could easily donate all those money for charity or for enviromental cause. In the end it would make more sence than dumping hard earned cash into Jaguar. May be it is better to close Lincoln, Mercury, all American plants, fire all American engineers and just move back to England?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    LOL :D

    Rocky
  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    Remember the VW "farvegnugen" ads?

    I like to take personal credit for killing those ads. I knew a guy back in the eighties who was a long time VW salesmen and well known to the ad honchos at VW (I didn't know that). I told him that I'd heard "farvegnugen" was German for rebates. He told the ad guys the joke, and they were, as he put it, "very, very concerned," that the joke was spreading. The ads ended less than a month later.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!! VW ads were generally very good, but that one stunk, and made me feel negatively about the brand. Perhaps that's why VW did so well in the 80's??

    I can appreciate Bill's passion for Jaguar - frankly, I'd like to have one. I can't really second guess his strategy with Jag - it's a long shot it seems to make him any money, but selling Hertz just really grates on me as a blunder of herculeon proportions....
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    I told him that I'd heard "farvegnugen" was German for rebates.

    Uh, that's not right. My mother....who is from Germany and remembers the ad said it actually means fun or comfortable, pleasant, or in context of the ad fun driving.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    It was for the TDI Jetta. It said simply;

    "It sucks less."

    I think that's genius, in the best tradition of VW advertising. Why can't Bill hire THAT agency?????
  • igor2igor2 Member Posts: 148
    QUOTE:I think that's genius, in the best tradition of VW advertising. Why can't Bill hire THAT agency?????

    LOL .. I was actually asking myself the same thing... they seem to be very good at what they do...

    maybe we should pressure Bill to hire them for the introduction of New Focus in 2008 or the B's alter that year... this agency only works on the young (like me) anyways.

    Igor
  • igor2igor2 Member Posts: 148
    I actually sumbled upon a link to a very detailed breakup of fleet and retail sals for all 2005 MY vehicles...

    and Ford is actually doing quite well... I mean Crown Vic does have 76% so does Taurus and Town car has 40%.. and Focus 30%, but the new for 2005 Vehicles: Five Hundred 10%, Montego 4%, Mustang 10%, Feestyl 8%

    Moreove,r while the numbers above might not look too great consider this ... pre-redesign Impala: 60%, Neon: 60%, Grand Prix: 50% (classic: 100%) Grand Am: 71% (G6 17%), Chrysler 300 21%

    For Comparison: Camry has 15%
    You can see all the numbers in the links to PDF files below:
    Cars: http://www.fleet-central.com/af/t_pop_pdf.cfm?action=stat&link=http://www.fleet-- central.com/af/stats2005/cars_web.pdf
    Trucks/Minivans/SUV's : http://www.fleet-central.com/af/t_pop_pdf.cfm?action=stat&link=http://www.fleet-- central.com/af/stats2005/trucks_web.pdf

    Again keep in mind - this is for 2005 MY - anothing happening with 2006 MY is not reflected... we should know in several months how GM did with the promised reduction of Fleet sales... and how are their new models doing .

    Igor
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Interesting site. I'd like to see how Ford did in 04 vs. 05, as I believe they cut back. But the Crown Vic is only really made for police & taxi service. I'm surprised they sell ANY retail. There aren't even any at the Ford Dealer here. The Town Car being at 40% surprises me, I would think it would be much higher. It also seems to be made only for livery service anymore. Although they do certainly attempt to sell them retail, I don't know why anybody buys them anymore. The last cheap thing they have done is replace the Visteon steering wheel button controls with Delphi units, which are hugh, and very hard to push and execute. There isn't much more they can do to make that interior miserable for me.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    But the Crown Vic is only really made for police & taxi service. I'm surprised they sell ANY retail.

    I agree, I guess all the retail sales are going to the GM. However, I have only seen a couple of '06 GMs in one day in the same parking lot (in an area where well to do seniors live) so that may explain it. You think it's because Mercury probably still have big discounts and rebates on the '05's?
  • igor2igor2 Member Posts: 148
    well if you ever visit blueovalnews.com (the forums section) you will see that there is a small,. but very dedicated group of people who shear by their Panther cars could not understand how Ford could be killing the "last truely american car' we call them the Panther Mob.. but they do have a couple good points...

    but the reason I am talking about it is - they do buy CV., GM and TC new... they love them...

    Igor
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