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Scion MPG-Real World Numbers



  • Thanks for the info. on the arbitration. I thought it would be a waste of time so I had kind of decided not to bother.
    Someone commented about doing the actual math-not just reading the tripometer. We've calculated the mileage since the day we got it-doing the full math.
    As far as the paint, I never mentioned that before, but I have problems with that too. When I originally looked at the car, i looked at silver. Each one I looked at had streaks. Dealer claimed it was just the silver paint on all Toyotas and had to be buffed out. I backed out of that deal and got my Black Cherry Pearl. The car scratches if I just look at it. It has little scratches everywhere. And I have seen other complaints about the paint on other websites, not just here. With the same description-little tiny scratches all over. It's like there's no clear coat anywhere! Not a happy camper. We're probably going to keep it at least one year because I really don't have the money to put down on another one and keep the monthly payment the same. I'm just having it professionally waxed the end of this month to hopefully help protect it.
    I'm glad someone else also saw the ads for a fuel efficient car. Since the Scion Customer Service rep. told me they would never say that, never advertise that and I saw it in their ad.
    And, by the way, I too am not difficult to please. I bought what was advertised to be an economical car and didnt' get it. I believe it's called false advertising!!
  • No Drips, No Runs, No Errors :) - 18,000 miles on the car.
    I bought, as advertised, a $15,045.00 dollar car. - no dealer add or come ons.
    I bought, as advertised, a relatively high mpg car (see window sticker). I get 36.5 to 39.4 mpg consistently. I'm still convinced 'some' folks do not understand how to calculate fuel mileage - the entire process from 'fill up' to 'fill up'
    I bought, a compact car - a Scion / a Toyota (not a new car company at all) - because I was NOT possitive I'd be happy with such a small vehicle. I felt it would hold its resale/trade value better than most small 'economy' cars (read Ford Focus). _ I've not been dissappointed based on what I'm hearing used xBs selling for.
    I've not experienced any mysterious little dents.
  • Hi, you mention that you think some people don't calculate their mileage correctly. Could you describe what you do and how you do it?
  • First fill up your tank... and I mean fill it... takes like 10 shut offs of the pump to do this approx... then set the trip meter to 0... then drive normal for a few days... then fill up your tank again as good as possible... then divide the amount on the trip meter by the gallons you just filled up with... BAM!!! you got MPG... this process should be repeated at least 3 to maybe 5 times to get a good average...

    On another MPG note... I have tried many myth type tweaks to get better mpg out of my tC... interestingly enough I was filling up with the lowest priced gas I could find in the twin cities 87 SAM's club... last week I paid .10 more per gallon at the gas station across the street for there version of 87 octane and to my surprise I got 3-4 more mpg than I had been getting... I have been buying this gas sense to see if it was real.. I'm on my third tank now and averaging 30-31mpg finally in my tC... I work in a lab so i'm a little obsessive compulsive about testing things and basically my daily routine is to drive to work and on my way home I stop at the same gas station every day to top off just so I can get an accurate dollar amount per day averaged over a week... before finding the magic gas station i was spending 11.00 -12.00 a day getting about 27 mpg (I drive 80 miles round trip per day) I switched gas and even with the .10 higher price I pay per gallon I only am spending 9.00-10.00 per day now... :)

    my suggestion is to try a different brand of gas (not a different octane) or a different station that one you may usually use to see if that has an impact on your mpg...
  • Like I said in the begining of my last post, I stated that some of us are getting great mileage out of this car and thats great. The truth is that I have checked out many scion forums, Scion Life, Scion Evolution, and another one that I cant think about. There are many people complaining of gas mileage, my car is stock for goodness sake. As far as know is that this post is for the US, some of the other forums are for just my area So.Cal area. I belong to a Scion club, so believe I know how the calculation of MPG works. I used to have a show car in my Accord, beatuiful car by the way. I work on my own cars, I know plenty of mechanics, that have looked at my car and told me to get rid of it. I just mentioned in my last post about visiting Dealerships to look at my car. I drive like a granny for a long time now. I keep it under 3000 RPMS, nothing changes in the mileage. I put 3 gallons of gas in my car on monday and have to put more gas on Wednesday night, I get 60 miles out of those 3 gallons. I am very happy to hear that those of you get great mileage out of your cars. I am not hating on the car, I love the car. To be honest I want another one, just not from the dealership I got it from. The pure pricing is true, that they will not neogtiate the price but they can set their own price depending on dealerships, it probably has to do with demand in certain areas. I wanted to trick this car out, you dont understand, I already had everything picked out, rims, tires, system, etc. I am not hard to please, I just want what was advertised to me, I feel ripped off. I cant beleive some of the responses and lies that I received from the dealerships. I wonder if those dealerships are operated by GWB,j/k. Here are the responses I have received from the complaints that I took to Toyota.

    "My paint is chipping off." One of the paint chipping problems is on the back bumper right below the bumper decal for the foot step.By the way I do know that alot of people that have commented on this, I have 2 repairs already to fix debris cracking my window.

    Response: "Stop driving so hard, the rocks are picking up and hitting your car hard, thats what is chipping your paint."

    "My car dents very easily." I understand this will happen over time, I have had my car since early April. I have 4 pretty good dings in my car and since I have a yellow XB, I'm afraid that its going to start looking like swiss cheese.

    Response: "You probably drive to much behind big trucks."

    "I get poor gas milleage, like around 20 miles a gallon."

    Response: "Stop driving so hard, its breaking in. You push the gas too much. We have tested it on the fuel consumption test, and it scored a 25.1 a gallon."

    Rebuttle: "But it is advertised as having a minimum epa of 28." Side note, the first dealership told me that there is no way to test out the mpg, if no check engine lights turn on there is nothing that we can do.

    This is just some of what hell that I have been going through, i hope everyone understands now why I am not happy. If anyone wants to hear chapter 2 of what issues that I have with XB and problems with the dealer I purchased it from, just let me know.
  • Your GWB joke says a lot.
    For the question about how to calculate - the individual spelled it out very well.
    The key is to top off, top off again, and top off again. Very important for acurate calculations.
  • I thought it was bad to top off. The excess fuel goes where it isn't supposed to go or something? I think what is more important is to be consistent when filling. Fill to the first clich every time, or the second, or third, I guess, if you don't mind putting too much fuel in the line.
  • Agree! To fill at the same gas station (or same pump there) and stop when the clich stops automatically every time is enough to get you a right MPG#. I do use this method to monitor MPG of my 92 Corolla AT. I do get 28 MPG consistantly using some gas saving tricks, ie, [non-permissible content removed] to neutral whenever I can.
  • Ah - fist shut off! There in lies the problem. You'll never convince me you can get an accurate mpg calculation using this method.

    Topping off is supposedly bad. I've not had a negative experience in some 30 years.
  • I would like to know if the trd muffler will improve mpg? And what about the cold air intake - will that improve mileage?

    Any comparisons out there of cars with and without these options?

    Unfortunately, a lot of people out there are getting different mileage numbers and it's hard to tell why there is so much inconsistency in experiences with mileage.

    I have auto without cold air and trd muffler. I seem to have varying averages, based on use of AC, how much in-town driving, high speed, etc. I do not have a heavy foot, but not very light either. My in-town mileage is miserable - averaging 26 or so. But, on the highway I am often getting 34-36 mpg, even with some high speed (75 plus) driving and AC on. This is surprising to me, because it would seem that aerodynamics are the big thing going against this car on mpg, but it is local driving where the car is simply not meeting the EPA/Toyota ratings for mileage.
  • Your story continues to sound more and more like mine. Like I said before, Scion had me take it to my dealer and told me to ask for a fuel consumption test. All they did was hook it to a computer, no engine light went on, so they said everything is fine. Nothing we can do. Now that I read your latest, doesn't sound like I ever had that fuel consumption test. I even had Scion talk to dealer before I picked up the my car to make sure they did appropriate testing. I had a gentleman stop me at the grocery store today ask me how I liked my Scion. He is in process of buying a car and is between the Rav 4 and xB. After our little talk, guess which car he's buying!
    Like you, I love my car, just hate the mpg problem. And I don't care what anyone says, I believe I bought that car under false pretenses, false advertising. They don't tell you that you have to drive this supposedly "hip young sporty" car like an old lady. Can't even get on expressway without going above 3000 rpm!
    I really believe that there is some defect that is showing up some of these cars. There seems to be two distinct camps of people. With about a 10 mpg difference-that's too much to be due to driving differences. I think some roll of the line one way for whatever reason and some the other. And nothing shows up on their little computer test. I knew there weren't any fuel line leaks-that's the other thing they checked. :lemon:
  • You pour mileage folks should start a club.
    Call it like, The Twenty Somethings.
    You could have local meets and events.
    Have a contest to see who can go through five gallons of gas the quickest on a closed circuit - Sponsored by Mobil or Exxon
    Have the Mysterious Dent plaque as well. Plus, give touch up paint to all in attendance. Certainly a local body shop would pitch in.
    Try to get one of those industrial laundries to provide Crying Towels for all attendees.
    You know, make lemonade :lemon:
  • pjl52pjl52 Posts: 26
    I have owned an xb 2004 since April 2004. I noticed pretty quickly that the odometer reads 5% too low. That is if you drive 100 miles, it reads 95 miles. There was some discussion of this at Scion Life and as I recall this problem occured in both xb and xa in 04 and 05. If you do not believe me try driving the car on a highway and take note of the millage markers for 10 miles or so.

    If your odometer is off, the result is that your mpg is 5% higher than your calculation.

    The cause of this problem is that US models use different sized tires than Japanese ones (the US diameter is larger).

    As for my mpg after 9000 miles--suburban driving about 30mpg, highway driving 35. If I drive at 55 or 60 on a highway I get 39 mpg, but since I mostly drive closer to 70 the mpg falls off dramatically. Its just the aerodianamics of the vehicle.

  • Hi... I've been looking at an Xb... By the way, I think Scion/Toyota is reall mis-marketing this car. Almost every one I've seen is being driven by a 50+ person. I am almost there too.

    Mileage is a big concern of mine.. I'm looking at the Civic Hybrid & Priuis also. I can accept the lower MPG on the Xb vs the MUCH lower cost vs Prius & HCH... even including the tax CREDIT next year. That plus I fit well in the Xb ( 6'2", 250+)

    I always drive with MPG in mind (I can get 30mpg on my 98 Lumina with 164k miles on the odometer if I do highway (about 28.5 80% Hgwy), so I am looking at your posts with interest. I live in an area with lots of hills, some 1000 ft ones (Hudson Valley in NY).

    Looking for some opinion. Thanks! :confuse:
  • I drive like my grandpa used to drive, and hence, get optimum gas mileage. I signal all of my lane changes, too. I have noticed the manners of drivers getting worse in this country and getting worse fast. Semi-truck drivers are as bad as the worst car drivers, too. Gotta get there fast, who cares who we pester doing it. I don't really like any of America's interstates anymore. I prefer back highways and town streets and secluded country drives if I can fit them in. Being in the middle of South Dakota that accounts for about 95% of my driving, so I'm a happy camper in that respect!

    I agree about slowing down on the freeway system. I have always driven that way, not just in a gas crunch. Good to hear of somebody else doing it.

    Make that another... When I do 65 on the New york Thruway, I feel like I am standing still some times.
  • I'm curious where the people who are getting poor MPG, think the excess fuel is going?
    It can only be used three ways:

    It leaks/evaporates --If this was happening, you would see/smell fuel or there would be an obvious issue with your evaporative emissions system, and the computer would know this and your check engine light would be on.

    It is somehow consumed do to a "too rich" condition- If this was happening, your "check engine" light would be on, the car would be obviously be running very poorly, and it would be very apparent with any diagnostic test.

    I think you are unaware of how you are pushing your little car I think you drive too hard. My MPG can vary up to 10 mpg on an identical trip depending on how I drive and my mood.

    Fact: Your xB has a tiny engine and is shaped like a brick, respect that.

    My wife (and every woman I know for that matter) drive with the "toggle switch" style.

    Floor it, wait until you are about to rear end someone, stand on the brakes. Then floor it again. Coasting for even the slightest moment is never an option.
    Some pedal must be pressed hard at all times.

    She complains her Expedition gets 11mpg, but when I drive it I get 16.

    As far as the complaints about "fraud"; The US Government EPA sets the quoted MPG figures. Manufacturers have no say in how the tests are done. They are required by law to report the figure the EPA gives them.
  • I take offense to that comment on "woman drivers". I do not drive with the "toggle switch" method. Also, I do not "push the card" to hard. I'm fully aware of the size of both the engine and the car. Also, understand totally about the EPA. You evidently have never read the "performance" section (under features and specs) of the Scion xB ad on the internet. I am roughly quoting here: "We wouldn't call it an econonomical car if it wasn't" Later in paragraph, "Expect to get 30 city/33 highway mpg-all without sacrificing high performance and low emission". That's them talking, not quoting government EPA which when stated, gives credit to the government. Not meaning to go on here, but don't want to be made out to be a "dumb woman" either.
    I've accepted the low mileage, don't want to hash about it anymore, before others learn about the problems and the resale value begins to drop. It's already dropped since August. :shades:
  • I agree with three of the last four posts on this subject.
    The exception being the offended one.
    I too get better mileage driving TheWife's car than she does.
    Of course there are exceptions - especially in their own minds ;)
    One of the many pleasures in life is driving - be it fast and furious, or slow and easy. Adding a fuel mileage goal just adds a little for us cheapskates. Luckily the xB does not have the mpg gauge - the one where you can actually get 'feedback' while driving. I suspect it would be too much of a daily distraction. I also enjoy watching the brake lights of the cars in front of me. On and Off - On and Off. All the while I'm just coasting along until we are all stopped TOGETHER at the next light or intersection.

    For the individual considering buying a Scion - 18,500 miles after buying my 05 xB - I'd do it all over again. That is the single best gauge I can think of. Been back to the garage twice - both for free oil changes and tire rotations. Then, I'm easily pleased, as well as amused :D
  • First, I had no idea if you were a woman or not, so I'd call your attempt at being offended "a swing and a miss"

    However I can state, EVERY woman I know uses the toggle switch method of driving. On,Off -- nothing in between. Mother, Wife, Girlfriends (from before I was married!) co-workers, etc...

    You quoted Scion's website. Where did those 30/33 numbers they quoted come from? Oh yeah, straight from the EPA.

    My xB is economical, (34+mpg) When I drive it that way.

    It's also thirsty when I drive it that way too. It all depends on the driver.
    I know for a fact, my xB's mileage can vary by 10 mpg over the same exact same course depending only on style.

    Also, You didn't answer, if the car runs fine, where do you suppose the "extra" gas is going?
  • Hi,

    I have been following this board for awhile as we are considering purchasing a 2006 XB. I see a lot of flucuation on the actual MPG and am curious if any type of study has been done on "normal" driving conditions as opposed to "ideal" driving conditions. The MPG is the main reason we are looking at the XB as we have a long daily commute. Two other things I'm curious about but can't find any other boards on are:

    1. those who use this as a commuter vehicle or take long road trips. Is it a comfy ride?

    and an important one

    2. Does anyone live in a high snow area. I live in the chicago/nw indiana area and have visions of coming home from work after a snowstorm and not being able to get into my driveway because the xb is so low to the ground.

    Anyone have any help on these two???

    Thanks! :blush:
  • Well, I don't speak from personal experience about snow capabilities, however I recommend reading the forums at and type in snow in the search box. Many owners over last winter reported that the xB was almost impossible to fishtail on snow and ice. I live in NH where it snows plenty, and the stability and traction control on the xB will help to curtail skidding on slippery roads. The VSC on the xB is a hidden feature often overlooked and not available on any other car near the price and MPG capability. For more info on stability control, here is an excellent article:
    I will be buying one before winter. By all means, invest in 4 snow tires mounted on their own wheels. As for the comfy ride, give it a test drive. I felt it didn't ride like a limo, but it was far from punishing. I guess it depends on what you compare it to. Good luck.
  • To answer your 'ride' question:
    I drive on average 175 miles per day. In and out of the vehicle numerous times. The ride is harsh to say the least. However, I believe, because of the upright/high seating it doesn't have a tireing effect on the driver.
    If your commute is on 'good roads' I suspect you'd find the ride very good indeed. It is only on the poorly maintained roads that the harshness of the short, stiff suspension comes into play.
  • "I've accepted the low mileage, don't want to hash about it anymore, before others learn about the problems and the resale value begins to drop. It's already dropped since August."

    TWO years ago, I paid $14,965.
    After two years of use, It's worth $14,921 retail, and $13,082 "private party".

    Can anyone else name a car that depreciates $44 after two years??
  • Sorry to hear about your low mileage avg. I have an auto '05 XB and the lowest mileage I ever got was 29 mpg during the 1st 1000 miles. I now have 16k on my Box and avg 33-35 mpg on mostly highway driving. I run the XB up to 80 mph on my 110 mile commute and still get the above mileage. I'm glad it's that economical because I bought it with that intention back in April. I use Castrol and Penzoil and do all my own oil changes. I still have the stock 185 60 15 tires on the TRD rims due to the fact that I've read many posts of low 20's mileage on XB's with 17'' and larger rims. I hope your mpg increases soon as that would frustrate the heck out of me too.
  • As far as i can tell ,there are people on this post that know a awful lot of info on Government EPA and Engines and driving conditions, I honestly think we have some employees of toyota backing up there product. That's fine but the truth will be uncovered. As far remarks of females and this and such, we dont have to get personal here about who drives. It shouldn't really matter. I know people who drive their cars hard and they get great mileage, 35 and above. I and some other owners out there should not have to be so picky with how to step on the pedal and gas types and how to fill up, with the left hand or the right and hold the right foot up when filling, this is insane. I should just put a wood block under my pedal to make sure that I dont go over 60. I like the whining jokes of Scion complaning club, whoever wrote that should quit their day job and be a comedian, those jokes were a classic. Tear towels,huh.It is apparent to me that there are many of us with the same problems. All cars should be created equal just like people, and you know how that works out. I know people that drive the crap out of their XB's and they get 35 to 40 miles to the gallon, what does Scion say about that, "well they got a good one, they got lucky," what excuse will they use for that explanation. When I posted on Scion Evolution, I told them of my problem and this is the response that I received. "Dude your car must have been made on Monday." Is that Scions excuse? Sounds like something that they would say. I am so tired of keeping my RPMS under 3000, what kind of life is that. It really doesn't matter how I drive my car, I could push it for the whole tank or drive it like grandma, it doesn't matter, my mileage still stays the same. Whomever of who have paint isssues, believe me, it isn't fun. My car has a horrible paint job, it was so bad, my scion dealership even admit it and said that they would repaint the car. What is that? Why would I have to repaint a new car. Who ever said that we are whining must be happy customers or they work for Scion. Thats the only explanation.Check this out, Scions are so great of cars that when I contacted a Lemon Law attorney and yes they do exist for those that are looking for a way out, just Google "Lemon Law Attorney." They told me there have been about 20 calims for some kind of defect for the Scions in general, not just the XB, radio issues in XA's and apparently Toyota is saying that it is normal for your speakers to rattle. Anyways 20 claims in the past 6 months, and guess what I'm number 21. Just a little a "blues clue," for those that dont understand that those of us are not "whining."
  • "They" don't change, or produce data about MPG. The US Government is the sole source of any such info.

    The US Government mandated language says:

    "2005 EPA estimated 30city/33highway...your mileage may vary"

    Maybe that's where Scion came up with the exact same 30/33 they describe. Strange Coincidence?

    Especially since car makers are forbidden by law from using any other numbers besides the ones given to them by the US Government??

    So your theory is that your car is just burning more fuel?

    Please explain why hasn't it begun running poorly, smoking, fouling spark plugs, overheating the catalytic converters, fouling the O2 sensor or turning on the check engine light if it is somehow using 50% more fuel than it needs?
  • I do not accept the premise that anyone should be able to use any drive style all the while expecting to get 40mpg. :P In fact, I've not seen any posts of any individuals claiming hard driving and 40mpg. I'd challenge those individuals as having difficulty grasping the the concept as well. :confuse:
    If I was having paint issues, :lemon: and Scion agreed to repaint the car for me - that would go in the 'positive' list. :) I had to fight tooth and nail with Ford back in the '80s just to get a bumper repainted.
    You know another thing about females (there are exceptions of course):
    A couple of them can have a slight disagreement about any subject.....and be enemies for life. While men can argue about ever subject under the sun....and remain the best of friends. Just observations!
  • You do have alot of good points, I'm not saying that all of us should get 35+ for mileage. I am just merely stating the facts, that the minimum epa rating for my Scion is 28, Dealer rating is 31 of course based on "normal driving conditions."My Xb gets 22 and I am positive about this, I have tried every gas calculation process possible. I know people personally, not in a forums that own Xb's, I see them every weekend, some have stock and some have aftermarket equipment, as headers, exhaust, intake, stuff like that. They get the same mileage just like those that have stock equipped about 300 hundred miles per tank, I beleive the most that I have seen out of my friends Xb is about 400 miles out of one tank, and his Xb is an 05 and all stock. the most miles I have gotten is 230, that is over a 150 mile difference, we live in the same area, get the same gas and we drive the same, as in pedal to the metal, but I stopped a week in because I realized that I had to try something different, I have seen about a mile or two difference. He still gets about 300 miles per tank and drives hard. The way I beleive that these cars need to be driven.

    I honestly dont think that me having to repaint my car is a positive, that means that Scion admits of doing a crap job on my cars paint job, that leads me to think that other things are wrong with the car. I have bubbles in my paint job for gods sake, arrgghh!!!

    I agree with you about the females thing about them holding grudges though, I'm a dude by the way and beleive you me I know how women can be. With that being said, I am sideing with the women here and I honestly beleive regardless of what color or gender you are, no matter if you have a fat foot or not, there is no excuse of getting 80 miles less than from a tank than what is advertised, Economical car hmmm... I dont know about that one for those of us that are driving a 108 hp, (correct me if Im wrong about the Xb's horsepower please.) I'm driving a 108 hp V8 or maybe a big 250hp or higher V6, I should have just bought the Dodge Magnum. I thought I was getting this car for the great mileage, and that is the only reason I bought this car, I bought the 2.0 release because I like being different, I wanted something limited, when I meant limited I didn't mean limited to 230 miles a gas tank! I serious wonder if my points are valid or I'm just a whiney, ignorant bigot that just doesn't understand the meaning of "false advertising." Yes I like lemonade, I'm trying so hard to make light of this becasue I am overly pissed about this subject. :lemon:
  • Please explain;
    How is it false advertising if Scion reports the numbers produced by the US Government?
  • A couple of points:
    1. I may have misunderstood an earlier post. I thought you or someone had paint issues that Scion agreed to take care of. To me - that is a positive. Only if they refused to correct the situation would I continue to harp on the subject. Whoever experienced that problem did a good job of making the point to Scion.
    B. As far as the gas mileage issue goes, again, that seems to be an individual issue. In this case you haven't been able to convince Scion it is anyone's other than your own fault. It is your responsibility to continue to 'sell' them on the problem. Sounds as if their techs did the requisite tests which did not produce the symptoms your trying to explain to them. Don't give up! Remember, these xB are basically Toyota Echos which have been sold in the US for some time now. Maybe you can find Echo owners to join your parade.
    3. That said, your problem with the car does not, a whole company crooked make. I get better than the 'advertised' mpg. You know others who get better than the 'advertised' mpg. My car at $15,045 and 38mpg is an economical vehicle. Far more than the Magnum I too would have loved to own. Trust you me, those cars met many of the needs I have in a work vehicle - but not in the up front price, or the mpg ratings.
    4. You know what they say; the squeaky wheel gets the grease.....maybe that'll be the next problem your car presents you with ;)
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