Acura TSX Lease Questions

tonystarks22

4 banger manual please

tonystarks22

According to Acura financial, my payoff TODAY is 19300. I have 2 payments remaining @ $352. I found my sales contract yesterday, the residual is $17160. How is that possible??? The 2 remaining payments obviously have interest and taxes incorporated into the payment, so the remaining $704 is NOT all principal. Where is the $2140 spread coming from???

kyfdx

Sometimes, the bank will quote a payoff with tax included... as though you were purchasing the car... If a dealer calls (as if you were trading), they get the straight payoff...

That's my best guess..

sanman1

My advice is to make the last two payments before you talk to a dealer. They will see you coming a mile down the road with remaining payments. They don't seem to eager to take the car in as a trade. I tried with three dealers and they said it would be better to not trade. They will basically add it to your new lease. They will never make your last two payments for you. I would get the lease end inspection and make your last payments and then talk with the dealers on getting a straight out new lease with nothing tied to it. There also seems to be a shortage of A/T and colors.

sanman1

I'm getting ready to wheel and deal and drive some salesperson crazy,

tonystarks22

aghhhhh the taxes included that makes sense.

tonystarks22

And got clarification on Momentum Miles from Acura (basically mileage rollover). Now if I could get someone to get me 10k 36 month residual/mf numbers on a 4 banger 6 speed manual, I can get ready to do battle with my local Acura dealership.

sanman1

It looks like the lease loytalty $1,500 cash back is for the TL only. I'm getting quotes here for a base 4 cyl TSX at $27,300 and $27,169 from two dealers. This was the first price they came back with without negotiating lower. Not too bad! I wonder if I can eek them down to below $27k? Probably going to pick one up this weekend if all goes well.

tonystarks22

thats awsome pricing. Only ~$280 over true dealer cost (they are only keeping $280 of the holdback).

zack82

Went through Truecar and got a dealer price for a base manual TSX for $26,669. Inquired about a 3 year lease, 10k miles and they came back with $310/month with $2339 due at signing.

When I run the numbers with a 62% residual value, money factor .00160, sales tax of 3%, I am coming up with something closer to $305/month without any cap cost reduction.

Car man, or anyone else, what am I missing? I think the price is excellent, and the payment should reflect that.

biker4

I just looked at the residual, its 17160. You cant find an 08 for that price anywhere with only 29k miles.
Certainly not at a dealer, but you might via a private sale. I got my 06 with 20K miles w/NAV for 18,600.

tonystarks22

Thats way too high. You should be at around 310 with just fees down (1st month, reg, tags etc)

sanman1

This was one quote I received. He's telling me he's selling the car for $27,100. Only 10k miles a year and putting $1,000 down.
Payment Details
Term 36
Base Payment 341.06
Total Payment 364.93
Purchase Option 18,674.40
MSRP 30,120.00
Est. Miles Per Year 10,000
Excess Mileage Charge 0.20

Amount Due at Signing
1st Month Payment 364.93
Fees & Insurance 1,067.20
Upfront Taxes 53.65
Total Inception Fees 1,485.78

How Inception Fees are Paid
Cash as Drive Off 1,000.00
Inception Fees Waived 485.78
Total Credits 1,485.78

Remaining Due (Still Owed) 0.00

Total Cash Required on Delivery 1,000.00

Fee Information
Description Amount Paid
License 98.75 Upfront
Registration 200.00 Upfront
Doc Fee 699.95 Upfront
Rental Surcharge 60.00 Upfront
Tire Fee 5.00 Upfront
Battery Fee 1.50 Upfront
MVWEA (Lemon Law) 2.00 Upfront

There are also county sales taxes that were up front for $45.99 and $7.66.

If I do 15k miles with a money factor of .00161 based off of a 27,100 selling price I get a payment of 402.57 with tax inluded.

From other experiences for this month what are people on here paying a month on average for a base 4cyl TSX?

tonystarks22

I don't know what state you are in, nor do I know the tax situation, so according to my calculations, a base TSX (4 banger non tech) the numbers should look like this

MSRP = 30170
Sale Price = 26890 (thats holdback and the $750 incentive)
Residual = 62%
MF = .00160
Term 36 months
Base Payment = 300.31

That is the deal I will be striving for next week. I am busy this weekend and cant make it out to a dealership but I will send out feelers on Monday. I don't know how obtainable this deal is (dealership giving me all the hold back) but I am going to aim for this.

Drive off Fee's shouldn't be more than like $800 (1st month ($350), doc fee ($200), registration ($200).

tonystarks22

$700 doc fee???? [non-permissible content removed] I wouldnt pay that. I'd rather they just be honest and put that back into the selling price of the car. A doc fee is STRAIGHT DEALER PROFIT.

$200 for Registration AND $98 for LICENSE??? Thats the same thing isn't it? Once again, more BS. In jersey the reg is only $200 for everything.

Whats a rental surcharge Fee???

sanman1

Exactly, I didn't like what I saw in his quote. This guy didn't even offer me anything yet that's lower. He's trying to stick to what he quoted. Courtesy Dealerships tend to play these games from what I've seen in the past. I've contacted them in the past and they always seem hight. I have the dealer that I leased my current car with and he's of course anticipating that I'm coming back. This car should not be more than mid $300's for payment with 15k miles a year. No way $425.00. That's insane! The $289.00 a month deal now is with $3k out of pocket which is a reduction from the MSRP of $30,100 which makes the price $27,100. the only difference from the selling price I was quoted was the 5k miles more per year. I should just be over $300 a month with paying first month, tax/tag/title at signing. He's adding his padding to my payment. I'm not funding his commission check for the next three years. I realize he has to make money and that's business but over charging is not right.

zack82

On my deal, the dealer is trying to change the price from Truecar.com. Here is what he said:
The money factor is correct and the residual is 62%...$18,674.40

I am using $27,219 as the number...taxes are $874.81, acquisition fee is $595, processing is $399, and I am figuring tags at $150.

What the heck is the acquisition fee and processing fee? Are these required costs?

sanman1

If you are a retuning Acura customer they will waive the acquisition fee. These dealers try everything they can to pad their pockets. Processing fee, pure profit!
I would hit them up on those two fees. The residual I'm getting is 59% with 15k miles. I believe that is corrcect as I checked it online. How many miles are you looking for per year?

sanman1

I come up with a payment of about $353.00 plus tax with the numbers you have there. That's not including first month/tax/tag/title. I would think you would pay those upfront. You may want to check their numbers. They could be BS'ing you to make the payment look more attractive.

tonystarks22

Acura WAIVES AQUISITION FEE and includes GAP on every lease. Call the dealer out on that BS too.

Also a $400 doc/processing fee is also excessive. Like I said no more than $200 for that too. Thats a pure glom by the dealer, just lines there pockets with more profit.

Dont ever pay taxes up front either, if you total the car, you will never see that money again.

sanman1

How about that $699 Doc fee I was quoted?..haha
They try and they get people that don't realize these fees are appearing. If you watch what they put down you can always question it. They will more than likely add fees that can either be removed or at the very least be negotiated out of the deal. Be the salesman for a minute. Of course you will come out first with the most fees you can put into the deal. That's why we negotiate. So far this one guy hasn't removed anything for me. I will see what he comes back with. If he doesn't lower anything in his next reply I will tell him to find another sucker.

tonystarks22

I was just quoted a selling price of $27319. Looks like they are giving me half the holdback and all of the incentive. I think thats fair.

I am awaiting a detailed itemization of the fee's and the lease figures. I'll keep you posted.

sanman1

Is this guy for real?

Is a really good deal. We have the car you want let me know if this is is not in your budget I will understand.


The breakdown is simple

Selling price $ 27169.00
Dealer fee $ 699.95
Tag renew $398.00
And battery charge $8.50
.

tonystarks22

You should reply, thats not a good deal FOR ME. Let me adjust his numbers for you...This is what he is really doing....

Sale Price $27869
Doc Fee $199.95
Tag Fee $199.95

He's keeping the all the holdback ($879) plus $100 of the $750 incentive. At a MINIMUM you should get ALL of the $750 incentive and SOME of the holdback. Auto TSX;s are dime a dozen, its end of model year production, and end of the month. You still have about $550 of wiggle room on the price he quoted you. Doesnt really matter where he delegates the money Fee's car etc.

sanman1

Thanks! I think that makes some sense there. Yes, he is definitely padding their pockets there and it not working with me. It's funny, he replied that another dealer not far from me has a dealer fee that is close to their's. The dealer fee is negotiable. Also, these dealers are not showing you the $750 from Acura in the price of the car.

tonystarks22

Heres another thing to keep in mind, dont get caught up in the Fee's and delegation of money. By my calculations, a base non tech TSX at Tru Cost (all the holdback and dealer cash to half the holdback and dealer cash), should cost me $321 - $334 with Tax (36/10k).

I know the Fees should be around 800-1000. As long as he quotes me at ~$320-$334 with $800-$1000 in Fee's, I could care less where he distributes the money, I know I am getting a good deal. See what I am saying? Less aggravation this way.

sanman1

Yes, you definitely have to see what others are paying and also know the basic numbers for the price and calculations to come up with a ballpark figure. Anything over $400 a month is a ripoff for a base 4 without tech. That of course is going in without any negative equity from another vehicle.
That's right, who cares what they do with the money they made on your good deal. As a consumer we just want what we feel is a fair deal.
The salesman got back with me after I told him I'm walking and asked what color I want. I did let him know and also said we have not agreed on a price so I'm not sure why you are looking..lol
He knows he can go lower yet. What he will do is tell me he has the exact car i'm looking for to get me going and then hopes that I break and pay the price he's giving. He will also say it's the last model and only one he can do a certain deal on. He will probably throw in a cargo net or something..haha Not happening!

sanman1

His Reply:

I KNOW WE HAVE NOT AGREE PRICE YET !


JUST GIVE ME A COUPLE OF MINUTES.

LOL

tonystarks22

I just got off the phone with my local dealer. I am new to the area, and didnt purchase from them but I do get my car serviced there. He asked a couple questions and said he would shoot me a quote in a bit. I'll let you know what he says.

I am GUESSING,

It will be ~ $334 with less than 1k in inception Fees. Which is fair IMHO. Then I will roll over my 15k in unused mileage and walk away with a 36 month 15k lease for ~330 which is a fantastic deal in my eyes.

sanman1

Anything in the low 300's for 15k mile allowance is a great deal.
I'm paying over $400 now, why? I had 8 months left on my Accord payment when I got this lease deal. I also have the navi on my 07 TSX. I did get the 15k allowance as well. I think I did well on my last deal being I had 8 payments left on my Accord and they took it in as a trade. This time I'm turning my lease in and not rolling anything into the 2010 TSX. My payment this time will actually be lower than on the 07. There is no reason that I should pay anywhere near what I'm paying now with no negative rollover.
Let me know what he comes back with. I will see what he comes back with as far as colors and if he's going to go down on price.

sanman1

Here is his reply back:

PURCHASE OPTION
Vehicle Price: $30,120.00
Preferred Customer Discount: - $3,887.15
Selling Price: $26,232.85

Sales Tax (estimate): + $1,672.28
Tag/Registration Fees (estimate): + $198.75
Tire/Battery/MVWEA: + $8.50
Dealer Service Fee: + $699.95
Balance Due (estimate): $28,812.33
No Trade-In

LEASE OPTIONS
Cash Due 36 months
15,000 Miles
$0 $390
$1,500 $342
$2,500 $312

sanman1

This quote I received last month and I'm talking with them again. I didn't do the deal becaues I still had two payments left on my current leaese and thought it would be better to settle that on my own before getting into a new lease.
He didn't give me any new numbers yet for this time. He is checking inventory that's coming in tomorrow and then letting me know. He's a bit farther down the road but he so far seems to be a straight shooter and a nice guy (for a car salesman..haha)

Here is another quote I received:

15k mile lease:

$0 down
Monthly payment- $369.86 plus tax = $393.90

$400 down
Monthly payment- $358.15 plus tax = $381.43

Their dealer fee is only $399.

Thoughts on this deal?

tonystarks22

Is there any confirmation that Acura does in fact waive the Acquisition Fee on for returning lesees. My dealership is saying they don't but I swear I read somewhere they do, thoughts?

sanman1

Yes, they waive the acquisition fee for returning Acura customers. Have you used Acura Financial Services before? If so yes it should be waived, and don't fall for their BS. The destination fee should also be included in the selling price of the car. We should only be looking at taxes/tag and any cap cost reduction if that applies to get you where you want to be on payment.
What are your thoughts on my two prior posts with the deals?

tonystarks22

I got an offer of $359 with 1400 Out of Pocket for 36 months 10k miles a year (7% sales tax).

By my math a base with 10k miles should be $322.25 (7% Tax included) + FEES.

Now if I roll the fee's into the payment (1460), I am at $367 with NO FEE's.

Thoughts???

tonystarks22

whats the tax rate where you live, and what mileage are you looking? for 15k miles?

sanman1

Sales tax? 6.5% yes, for 15k miles a year. In florida!

tonystarks22

MSRP 30170
Sale Price 26890
36 Months
15K miles a year
Residual of 59%
MF .00160

I calculate a payment of 345.06 + FEES for you

sanman1

Right, that one deal was with $400 down. I need to get the selling price from him again to see if my calcs match up. The one guy is way too high from today. I'm thinking the payment of $383 with tax included is not too bad with the 15k miles allowance. That would be with only $400 down.
Acura finance just had the zero down $360.00 (tax not included) a month deal last month and that was for only 10k miles.

zack82

Thanks for the info. In my past leases, I didn't recall all that BS. I told them to remove the aquisition fee and reduce the processing fee. Now I wait for his GSM. Basically told him that I am coming up with a monthly payment around $305 including taxes. I also pressed him on the truecar cost of $26669.

We'll see. Now if I can only get a silver TSX. I also forwarded the truecar report to another dealer that is much, much closer. They weren't interesting in dropping below $28445. I am hoping they will match as it will save me 4 hours of driving to get the other car...

tonystarks22

so are they waiving it for both of you?

sanman1

I will not pay the fee. I'm a returning lessee and have been with them since 2002.

tonystarks22

Did you get a dealer to actually waive it and not just magically move the money somewhere else??

sanman1

No, they don't even show it as part of the cost. They would list it as such. Always ask about it also and see what the fees are in the itemized list. Sometimes they will just name a fee and put a few different ones under that one name. Again, this comes with asking them what every fee is for. Be a stickler!

sanman1

You usually don't see the aquisition fees as it's a hidden cost by the finance company. I will be part of the capitalized cost .My letter said they would waive the security deposit. Big Deal! Not many pay that anyways. I think it's a good question to ask your salesman.

zack82

Ok, who can run these numbers to make sure that I am not missing something. I finally got a response. 3 years, 10k miles base manual for $655 plus $318 at signing and $318/mo for 36 months. Not sure what the heck the $655 is? He said that he could not get to my numbers, not sure why?

Price: $26,669
sales tax: 3%
residual 62%
money factor: 00160

When I calculate, I get 305.42.

I want to respond to these guys. Any help appreciated.

sanman1

$655 is probably taxes/tag and dealer fees. They should be able to roll that into the lease if you don't want to pay anything at signing. It will not increase your payment much.

kyfdx

I've never seen them waived... Added to the CAP cost, maybe... but, never waived...

Disposition fees are usually waived for returning customers...

sanman1

Do they put them in upfront cost or roll them into the lease? I guess that would depend on if you put money down or not. If you put money down say first month and taxes/tax/dealer fees is it not usually in with these fees? I bet they are usually added in the down payment someone would put down or if zero down rolled into the lease. They usually don't itemize tha cost from what it seems. Hidden Fee!

kyfdx

It's pretty easy to hide the acquisition fee.... sometimes they call it a bank fee or assignment fee..

On an Acura, I think it's still $595...

I always try to roll in as much of the upfront cost as I can... I don't mind making the first payment... and registration/title fees (about $100 here)... and, a security deposit if required.... but, that's it.. My monthly payment reflects the actual monthly cost of the lease... and, that's the way I like it!

regards,
kyfdx