Now, I had been getting deep into the #'s with many dealers before, and they go in circles when you try to do that... So I backed up to just talking out of pocket & payment, and then going and figuring out the details on my own. I believe they are getting to 624/3000 by taking a bit over $2000 off MSRP, and then keeping the money factor up at .00265, the highest w/o security deposit. Now you'd say "why not pay the security deposit", well the problem is when you try to do that, they claim they dont know how much it lowers the MF and they end up eating 1/2 of your .00015. So any time you change a parameter, they skim a bit off the top and the price actually inches higher.
I think they are making about $720 more than they should be on this deal, but I'm OK with it. I really wanted to get to 600, but I could not get anyone to budge. Chapman just said they will not give up any of their padding on the MF. Tucson claimed they "could do nothing" about it, and BMW North Scottsdale acted like they didn't know what a money factor is.
In the end, I got the deal from North Scottsdale but Tucson matched it so I bought it at Tucson (which just changed ownership in the last 2 weeks).
I hope that helps you, and I'd be interested to hear if anyone's doing a lot better on an equivalent car.
Edit:
I should mention, 624 includes a sales tax that's charged per-month @ 8.1%. And this is a special order car that has yet to be built, so it is harder to negotiate ( I think) than one on the lot.
2008 335 Sedan Montego Blue Metallic Beige Leather Light Poplar Wood Trim Automatic Transmission Premium Pkg Sport Pkg Paddle Shifters Navigation System Rear Shades HD Radio Satellite Radio Heated Front Seats Comfort Access MSRP $50,395. and your price would be $48,960. plus ttl and doc fee
A 36 month lease, 12k miles per year with inception fees up front $1650.51 + $5250 (7 Refundable Security Deposits) = $6900.51 up front, would give you a payment of $664.88 + $52.86 tax = $717.74 per month.
The Residual would be $31,748.85.
I asked for the SD's to get the MF down. The money factory was .00250 - .00049 = .00201. Still to high? Ok?
I am a returning BMWFS customer. Previous car was purchased though if that makes a difference.
nothings signed yet. I do have to order which hurts my negotiating power some
what i have seen on this board is that the money factor should decrease .00015 for every security deposit you make. You need to make sure you are getting the base money rate as a returning BMWFS. if you search the boards I am almost sure the money factors for the 335i are listed along with residuals. Good Luck!
My 2005 325i lease ends this month and need help deciding whether to buy off my current car or lease a new 328i...
My Current Car
2005 325i w/ no options except metallic paint and Auto Trans. current Mileage :28100 Residual: $18730
Lease Deal offered
2008 328i with PREM PKG, iPOD Adapter MSRP: $38100 36 month lease / 10000 miles per year Total Drive off : $1000 Monthly Payment :$449+tax ($459+tax if 12000 miles per year) Residual $24383
Help me decide!!!
Thank you in advance...
And if I keep my current car, is certifying it worth it?? (dealer said it costs $3000, but it will extend the warranty to 6yr/100Kmile and BMWFS will lower my finance rate to 3.9%)
I believe you can negotiate the lease payment down to $425. I just leased my first 328i in December but with 5K drive off. In your case, it all depends on the selling price; since you don't have capital cost reduction.
paowow - I would lease the 2008 328i - new body style, more powerful engine, and free scheduled maintenance. Also, sounds like you are getting a strong lease price. What dealer are you negotiating with? If you live in an area with inclement weather, I would consider the 2008 328xi - it has a higher MSRP, but the lease might be cheaper because the residual is 3% higher (64% vs 61%) and the money factor is marginally worse (0.00175 vs 0.00165).
If you need any more help, feel free to reply or email me.
"what i have seen on this board is that the money factor should decrease .00015 for every security deposit you make."
Nope, I beg to differ. If you are not a returning BMWFS customer, you pay a .00015 HIGHER money factor unless you pay one security deposit. So this first SD reduces your effective MF by that amount. But each additional SD lowers your MF by just .00007.
"Would you be able to break down what your deal looked like in the end? Payment wise and all?"
Okay:
(By the way it's a gorgeous car. I'm in love: Space Grey metallic with Creme Beige leather and dark walnut trim. The lines of the car are gorgeous in the flesh, even better than the pictures. I had to order the car to get the manual trans and the colors I wanted. Waited a bit over six weeks to get it.)
2008 328i Coupe, Sport, Premium, Navi, PDC, manual trans, metallic paint. MSRP $43,250, agreed price $40,560 plus floor mats at no charge ($130 value), discount from MSRP $2820, or about $600 over invoice.
Payment $555.66 plus 7.75% tax = $598.72 per month
Drive off: first payment + DMV fees ($353) + security deposit + tire and doc prep fees ($54 total) = $1605. Zero customer cap cost reduction (cash down) Rolled into lease: bank fee $825 (this is high, the minimum is $625, the max they can charge is $825).
Not certain what my final money factor was, but I did get the proper reduction in payment from my security deposit as a new BMW customer. With the above details, the payment should be about $10 lower if I got the "buy rate" MF of .00190, but I think it was more like .00205. (remember, the buy rate in November was .00190, but it went up ten points in January, so it's now .0020.) So the dealer made back a few hundred bucks on the MF and the bank fee at full boat, but the overall deal was discounted so much, this didn't matter to me.
Overall, this was the best deal I got from emailing nine dealers through Edmunds and negotiation by email. Two others were willing to go $1250 off MSRP. The rest didn't want to deal at all, and this was in the last few days of November! So emal a lot of dealers if they're available to you, and be willing to drive a bit. My dealer is 60 miles away and I have about 10 dealers that are closer.
paowow - The job of an auto broker is to handle all negotiations for you. It doesn't sound like you fully trust the broker - I would recommend dealing with a reputable brokerage like Auto Advisors, LLC (www.yourautoadvisors.com) or attempt to negotiate directly with the dealer and see if the auto broker is able to do better.
I live in San Jose, CA and have been looking into leasing. I want a fully loaded 328, with maybe $2,500 down and the payments not to be over $440! Prefer a 24 months lease. This seems impossible to these people... But I know it is very much possible, I thought the whole idea of leasing is not to pay too much down and your payments to be descent. Right? Any suggestions? Thanks
shadin - What is the MSRP of the 2008 BMW 328i that you are looking at? Does $2,500 down mean $2,500 capitalized cost reduction or $2,500 total due at signing? Please feel free to email me or reply.
This is my first post on this site and i think it is really helpful!!
Speaking of help.....
I am currently a BMW customer and have the 330i with the sports package. My lease is up in early march and i am looking to lease the 328i new hardtop convertible with the sports package and the ipod adapter and comfort access for 36 or 39 months with around 2,000 down. I do not know much about the money factor and the residual values and would appreciate if someone could help with what i should expect to pay monthly given the above specs. I am in florida and looking to not get screwed on my payment. I really cant afford anything over 600 a month including taxes...can someone please help with advice on dealing with the dealer...what questions to ask and what an expected payment, residual and money factor should be...I would really appreciate it.
This is going to be difficult. Not only is the convertible the most expensive 328i, but the money factor is the highest as well. In addition, I haven't heard of many people being able to discount the car much.
One choice that may be attractive to you is European Delivery (ED). I don't know much about it, but I do know that the car doesn't come off of the dealer allocation, so they may be more open to discounting. Most people try to get a price of several hundred $ above ED invoice, which is lower than USA invoice. Then you need to schedule a trip to Germany to get the car, drive it in Europe and then wait for delivery at your home dealer.
The following is based on standard USA delivery.
For a 3 year lease on that car, January money factor is .00295, residual 61%.
With metallic paint and manual trans and those options, the car MSRP's at $46,550. Remember, that's with leatherette upholstery, no bluetooth, no premium pckg, etc. Your local market conditions will determine whether you can get a discount on a convertible or not, but I'll assume that you'll pay MSRP.
Your "drive off" costs are going to be close to your $2000 expectation without any money "down" on the lease: First month's payment, registration tag fee, bank fee of $625, other dealer fees ("MACO" and "training") and documentation fees.
Common wisdom is that you shouldn't pay any cash down, also called "customer cap cost reduction" or "customer cash" on a lease. If you want to reduce your payment, you can pay multiple refundable security deposits, each of which will lower your money factor by .00007.
I put this info into a lease calculator and the bad news is that without taxes, your payment comes out to $725 a month.
To try to get your payment down, I tried a $2,000 negotiated discount, and seven security deposits of $650 each (totaling $4550 and reducing the money factor to .00246) and this brought the pre-tax payment down to $628. You'll need to add your local tax rate to that payment.
So you can see, your goal of $600 a month including tax is unlikely. To get to $628 plus tax, you'll have to reduce the capitalized cost down from MSRP by $2000 and pay drive off fees totaling something over $6000 (much of that being refundable).
As for working with the dealer, try to keep the bank fee to the minimum of $625, don't pay MACO or training fees, and negotiate a good discount from MSRP for the price of the car, and look at European Delivery.
boomer23 - Great response! I have helped two friends with the BMW European Delivery Program and they have nothing but good things to say. On a standard 328i convertible, the MSRP is $43,200 and the European Delivery MSRP is $40,175, a $3,025 savings!
This is my first post on this site and i think it is really helpful!!
Speaking of help.....
I am looking to lease the 328i or 328xi with navigation, ipod adapter, & sports package for 24 or 36 months with around 1500-2000 down. I do not know much about the money factor and the residual values and would appreciate if someone could help with what i should expect to pay monthly given the above specs. I am in oklahoma and looking to not get screwed on my payment. I really can't afford anything over 500 a month including taxes...can someone please help with advice on dealing with the dealer...what questions to ask and what an expected payment, residual and money factor should be...I would really appreciate it.
Since you asked the same question as clvnu above, read the responses to her/him.
In your case, the January money factor for a 328i sedan for 24 months are .00165 and 68% for 24 months and 58% for 36 months. For the 328xi sedan, the money factor is .00175 and 71% for 24 months and 61% for 36 months.
An example for the 328xi with your options, from the BMWUSA website, Build Your Own (Try it yourself, you need to educate yourself) :
MSRP $39,250. No automatic trans, no leather, no premium package. If you negotiate $2,000 off MSRP, you'd be at an agreed price of $37,250.
Your whole $1500 to $2000 would be taken up with fees and "drive-off" payments, so I'll assume you'll pay no actual down payment. Assuming you're not a previous BMWFS customer, be sure that you make at least one security deposit to keep your money factor from going up by .00015.
On a 3 year lease, without rolling any inception fees such as the bank fee into your payment, your payment would be about $477 before taxes. For 24 months it would be about $505. The 328i would be a bit lower. If you need auto trans, add about $20 a month to your payment.
Hello Cluvnu!!! I believe I can help you with your questions because I just purchased in December an 2008 328i conv. jet black with black leather premium pkg,ipod adapter and comfort access, pretty similiar to yours, the msrp on this car with these options was 48,300, it's a little more than your msrp because premium pkg. is a little more, anyway after searching all the dealerships in town and out of town I realized noone was wanting to give any discounts at all, because in Houston this car cannot be found it must be ordered, I then tried contacting the internet depts., and found one dealer who could give a measley $500.00 off, which was better than what everyone else said which was better than nothing!!!!
Anyways msrp was 48,300.00. I got .00295% MF and 63% residual on a 36 mos. lease. In Texas you must pay full taxes which is 7.25%. So with 4,000 down at lease signing which was first payment, secruity deposit and aquis.fee $625,and some other bs fees, and what was left from the 4,000 was used as dwn payment my payment turned out to be $748.00, so I don't believe it will be possible to have a payment at $600.00 a month on this car, mabye you should consider a coupe for that payment range!!! If you decide to bust your budget it will def be worth it I love, love, love this car!!!!
2008 328i sedan navigation i-pod adapter sports package steptronic automatic
MSRP:38550 Neg. Price: 36500
Lease: 36 mo/12K year rate: .00245 residual: .63 down payment: 1500 government fees: 125.55 taxes: 2281.25 doc fee: 50 sec deposit: 600 Total initial payment: 1500? Residual: 24286?
monthly payment of 577.65
Im new at this and dont want to get taken to the cleaners the first time. This seems like a bad deal. What can I do to lower the monthly payment substantially? Any help would be a relief as well as much appreciated. Any thing on here seem a little fishy? This is what the dealer just faxed over. Thanks-
Thank you very much boomer23 for your response...i think i am going to look at the mercedes clk 350 since they are advertising lease prices of 499 a month...does anyone know what the money factor and the residual is for this car...i realize it is not a bmw and that is what this forum is for, but you all really seem to know a lot about this...so if anyone has any advice regarding this car it would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks again boomer23!!
Sorry, I don't know anything about Mercedes lease details. One thing to watch out for on advertised lease rates: They often include large down payment amounts. As many have said, putting thousands of dollars down on a lease is not a good idea. If you can use the advertised lease payments as a guide and then negotiate with the Mercedes dealer for a similar payment, but with no money down, you'll be going in the right direction. I've heard that they also have a program to use multiple refundable security deposits to reduce the payment.
Are these brand new lease numbers? I was quoted 5 days ago 61% mf and .00175 on a 328i lease for 15k. BMWUSA states that the current lease deal is available until 1/31. I was actually hoping the fed rate cut would improve the mf in February. Where did you find these residual and mf numbers?
I need some advice on whether or not this is a good deal. I chose the 2007 hoping to get a better price off invoice but the dealer wouldn't budge too much.
2007 328i sedan standard package steptronic automatic
MSRP: 34,550 Neg. Price: 32,500
Lease: 24 months / 15K miles per year rate: .00245 residual: .71 drive-off: 1,710 MF: 0.00165
hopefall and boomer - I apologize for the confusion, but there appears to be inaccuracies in regard to the lease rates on the 328i. I have asked for further clarification, but I believe that a 36 month lease with 12,000 miles per year would have a 63% residual and the money factor should be 0.00175.
If you need more help, please feel free to email me or reply.
2008 335i coupe Alpine white red dakota leather nav sports package Sat Radio automatic paddle shifters 36 months/10K miles
The MSRP of this car is $48,195, the only numbers i have are the monthly payments and out of pocket. $625 a month with $4,900 out of pocket, $625 of which is a security deposit. I'm not sure if this is a good deal or not, i know i don't have the specific numbers to be able to do the calculations, but i'm assuming someone on here can tell whether its a good/bad deal based on the 2 numbers i posted. Thanks.
You appear to be putting a lot of money down on the lease. Most people who know about such things recommend not putting any money down on a lease for various reasons. Read posts above for details. If you have the cash, a better deal would be to put it into multiple refundable security deposits, each equal to one monthly payment, and each of which reduces your money factor by .00007.
That being said, does your $625 a month include taxes? The base money factor for this car for January is .00245 with 58% residual. If $625 of your $4900 is for a security deposit and there is a standard $625 bank fee and I assume $400 in other fees, you would be putting $3250 of your cash down toward the lease. If I assume that you are getting an $800 discount below MSRP, your payment would be about $625 before taxes. Depending on your local tax rate, if this payment includes taxes, the deal is better than it appears.
If the above is true, your dealer may not be marking up the money factor or the bank fee, and may or may not be adding other dealer profit in fees such as "training" or "MACO" fees, but your discount off MSRP is only "okay", and you are putting $3250 cash down on the lease, which is not a good idea.
I'd try to get close to this payment without putting any cash down. Use multiple security deposits and try to get a better discount from MSRP. Make the dealer itemize all of these details so that you know what you are being charged. Read up on leasing and get hold of a lease calculation sheet to see if it all makes sense.
Yes, looks like a good payment, except that you're putting money down on a lease, which we discussed that most people discourage. My suggestions at the end of my first reply still stand.
i got the actual numbers, and the tax is 7% not 6%, anyhow MSRP 48,195 Base Cap Cost of car is 45,850 costs added to lease 1,324 residual 61% money factor .00245
The MSD don't make any sense for me since i get 12% on my money, which in turn makes no sense to put any money down as u said before. So with this I'd be looking at a payment of 729 a month......pretty good or no?
That $729 payment matches my lease calculator with the details you supplied. That's a fairly typical payment from what I've read, without MSDs and without money down. Nothing fantastic, but not bad either.
I see that your cap cost is $45,850, $2345 less than MSRP. If all of that is a discount by the dealer and not from your cash contribution, that is a very aggressive discount on a 2008 335i Coupe. He's probably making some of that profit back in fees, hence the $1324 rolled into the lease. The lowest amount you could expect to pay in fees would be a $625 bank fee. Anything additional is probably dealer profit. This is usually listed as training fees, "MACO" and other fees. To improve the deal, see if you can negotiate any of that $1324 down. (I assume that you're paying a $750 security deposit up front to get the base money factor rate, along with license tags and other minor fees, and that the security deposit isn't rolled into the lease).
Congrats on getting 12% on your money in today's economy.
There will be 1 security deposit, which is part of the 1700 out of pocket and not part of the lease. The 12% i get running money through my own company, which i also do for other people for money lent to my company, 8 percent a year guaranteed...payed monthly.
Sounds like the money factor is inflated a lot. The information I have is that the base money factor for the 328i sedan in January is .00165. Dealers are allowed to mark this up by up to .0004, which would max it out at .00205. He's going beyond that allowed increase! The security deposit is supposed to avoid an additional .00015 increase for new BMW customers. You should try to get the .00165 base rate.
Also, the discount from MSRP of $1750 is not especially good. For this car, you should be able to do better, like $2000 or more.
Also, are you paying cash down as well? You shouldn't ever pay cash down on a lease. $3,000 sounds like a lot due at signing to me. Ask for an itemization of all of the fees, those that are rolled into the lease and those that are paid up front. The only really legitimate fee is a $625 bank fee. Dealers often try to inflate that by up to $200 to add profit. Other small fees, under $100, like DMV filing fees and tire fees are probably legit. Most other fees are dealer profit.
To give you an idea, if you got the .00165 base money factor, and without any fees rolled into the lease, your payment before taxes would be about $465. If you pay sales taxes in your state, you need to add in your tax rate on that payment.
At the base rate, before taxes (since I don't know your tax rate), with a $625 bank fee rolled into the lease, your payment should be about $492. If you pay the bank fee up front, the payment would be $473. Add your tax rate to these payments to see whether the math looks right.
Comments
Would you be able to break down what your deal looked like in the end? Payment wise and all?
I'd really appreciate it. :shades:
* 335i Sedan w/ 6spd manual
+ ZSP Sport Package
+ ZPP Premium Package
+ iDrive Navigation
+ iPod /USB Adapter
+ Metallic paint (color: Sparkling Graphite Metallic, interior Gray / Burl Walnut trim)
$46900 MSRP
about $3000 out of pocket and $624 / month.
Now, I had been getting deep into the #'s with many dealers before, and they go in circles when you try to do that... So I backed up to just talking out of pocket & payment, and then going and figuring out the details on my own. I believe they are getting to 624/3000 by taking a bit over $2000 off MSRP, and then keeping the money factor up at .00265, the highest w/o security deposit. Now you'd say "why not pay the security deposit", well the problem is when you try to do that, they claim they dont know how much it lowers the MF and they end up eating 1/2 of your .00015. So any time you change a parameter, they skim a bit off the top and the price actually inches higher.
I think they are making about $720 more than they should be on this deal, but I'm OK with it. I really wanted to get to 600, but I could not get anyone to budge. Chapman just said they will not give up any of their padding on the MF. Tucson claimed they "could do nothing" about it, and BMW North Scottsdale acted like they didn't know what a money factor is.
In the end, I got the deal from North Scottsdale but Tucson matched it so I bought it at Tucson (which just changed ownership in the last 2 weeks).
I hope that helps you, and I'd be interested to hear if anyone's doing a lot better on an equivalent car.
Edit:
I should mention, 624 includes a sales tax that's charged per-month @ 8.1%. And this is a special order car that has yet to be built, so it is harder to negotiate ( I think) than one on the lot.
Does anyone have the current Money Factor and residual for the 335i sedan driving both 12K miles and 15K miles a year for 36 months?
I suspect all of these DFW area dealers are way high and are definately inflating the MF on me.
Thanks alot!
Montego Blue Metallic
Beige Leather
Light Poplar Wood Trim
Automatic Transmission
Premium Pkg
Sport Pkg
Paddle Shifters
Navigation System
Rear Shades
HD Radio
Satellite Radio
Heated Front Seats
Comfort Access
MSRP $50,395. and your price would be $48,960. plus ttl and doc fee
A 36 month lease, 12k miles per year with inception fees up front $1650.51 + $5250 (7 Refundable Security Deposits) = $6900.51 up front, would give you a payment of $664.88 + $52.86 tax = $717.74 per month.
The Residual would be $31,748.85.
I asked for the SD's to get the MF down.
The money factory was .00250 - .00049 = .00201. Still to high? Ok?
I am a returning BMWFS customer. Previous car was purchased though if that makes a difference.
nothings signed yet. I do have to order which hurts my negotiating power some
My Current Car
2005 325i w/ no options except metallic paint and Auto Trans.
current Mileage :28100
Residual: $18730
Lease Deal offered
2008 328i with PREM PKG, iPOD Adapter
MSRP: $38100
36 month lease / 10000 miles per year
Total Drive off : $1000
Monthly Payment :$449+tax ($459+tax if 12000 miles per year)
Residual $24383
Help me decide!!!
Thank you in advance...
And if I keep my current car, is certifying it worth it?? (dealer said it costs $3000, but it will extend the warranty to 6yr/100Kmile and BMWFS will lower my finance rate to 3.9%)
If you need any more help, feel free to reply or email me.
Thanks again for your help.
Many people will tell you that putting money into a lease up front (otherwise known as a down payment or cap reduction) is a bad idea.
I'm one.
Nope, I beg to differ. If you are not a returning BMWFS customer, you pay a .00015 HIGHER money factor unless you pay one security deposit. So this first SD reduces your effective MF by that amount. But each additional SD lowers your MF by just .00007.
Okay:
(By the way it's a gorgeous car. I'm in love: Space Grey metallic with Creme Beige leather and dark walnut trim. The lines of the car are gorgeous in the flesh, even better than the pictures. I had to order the car to get the manual trans and the colors I wanted. Waited a bit over six weeks to get it.)
2008 328i Coupe, Sport, Premium, Navi, PDC, manual trans, metallic paint.
MSRP $43,250, agreed price $40,560 plus floor mats at no charge ($130 value), discount from MSRP $2820, or about $600 over invoice.
Payment $555.66 plus 7.75% tax = $598.72 per month
Drive off: first payment + DMV fees ($353) + security deposit + tire and doc prep fees ($54 total) = $1605.
Zero customer cap cost reduction (cash down)
Rolled into lease: bank fee $825 (this is high, the minimum is $625, the max they can charge is $825).
Not certain what my final money factor was, but I did get the proper reduction in payment from my security deposit as a new BMW customer. With the above details, the payment should be about $10 lower if I got the "buy rate" MF of .00190, but I think it was more like .00205. (remember, the buy rate in November was .00190, but it went up ten points in January, so it's now .0020.) So the dealer made back a few hundred bucks on the MF and the bank fee at full boat, but the overall deal was discounted so much, this didn't matter to me.
Overall, this was the best deal I got from emailing nine dealers through Edmunds and negotiation by email. Two others were willing to go $1250 off MSRP. The rest didn't want to deal at all, and this was in the last few days of November! So emal a lot of dealers if they're available to you, and be willing to drive a bit. My dealer is 60 miles away and I have about 10 dealers that are closer.
I hope this helps.
This seems impossible to these people... But I know it is very much possible, I thought the whole idea of leasing is not to pay too much down and your payments to be descent. Right?
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Speaking of help.....
I am currently a BMW customer and have the 330i with the sports package. My lease is up in early march and i am looking to lease the 328i new hardtop convertible with the sports package and the ipod adapter and comfort access for 36 or 39 months with around 2,000 down. I do not know much about the money factor and the residual values and would appreciate if someone could help with what i should expect to pay monthly given the above specs. I am in florida and looking to not get screwed on my payment. I really cant afford anything over 600 a month including taxes...can someone please help with advice on dealing with the dealer...what questions to ask and what an expected payment, residual and money factor should be...I would really appreciate it.
One choice that may be attractive to you is European Delivery (ED). I don't know much about it, but I do know that the car doesn't come off of the dealer allocation, so they may be more open to discounting. Most people try to get a price of several hundred $ above ED invoice, which is lower than USA invoice. Then you need to schedule a trip to Germany to get the car, drive it in Europe and then wait for delivery at your home dealer.
The following is based on standard USA delivery.
For a 3 year lease on that car, January money factor is .00295, residual 61%.
With metallic paint and manual trans and those options, the car MSRP's at $46,550. Remember, that's with leatherette upholstery, no bluetooth, no premium pckg, etc. Your local market conditions will determine whether you can get a discount on a convertible or not, but I'll assume that you'll pay MSRP.
Your "drive off" costs are going to be close to your $2000 expectation without any money "down" on the lease: First month's payment, registration tag fee, bank fee of $625, other dealer fees ("MACO" and "training") and documentation fees.
Common wisdom is that you shouldn't pay any cash down, also called "customer cap cost reduction" or "customer cash" on a lease. If you want to reduce your payment, you can pay multiple refundable security deposits, each of which will lower your money factor by .00007.
I put this info into a lease calculator and the bad news is that without taxes, your payment comes out to $725 a month.
To try to get your payment down, I tried a $2,000 negotiated discount, and seven security deposits of $650 each (totaling $4550 and reducing the money factor to .00246) and this brought the pre-tax payment down to $628. You'll need to add your local tax rate to that payment.
So you can see, your goal of $600 a month including tax is unlikely. To get to $628 plus tax, you'll have to reduce the capitalized cost down from MSRP by $2000 and pay drive off fees totaling something over $6000 (much of that being refundable).
As for working with the dealer, try to keep the bank fee to the minimum of $625, don't pay MACO or training fees, and negotiate a good discount from MSRP for the price of the car, and look at European Delivery.
Good luck.
Thanks.
Speaking of help.....
I am looking to lease the 328i or 328xi with navigation, ipod adapter, & sports package for 24 or 36 months with around 1500-2000 down. I do not know much about the money factor and the residual values and would appreciate if someone could help with what i should expect to pay monthly given the above specs. I am in oklahoma and looking to not get screwed on my payment. I really can't afford anything over 500 a month including taxes...can someone please help with advice on dealing with the dealer...what questions to ask and what an expected payment, residual and money factor should be...I would really appreciate it.
You will need much more $$ than stated in your post.
Good luck.
In your case, the January money factor for a 328i sedan for 24 months are .00165 and 68% for 24 months and 58% for 36 months. For the 328xi sedan, the money factor is .00175 and 71% for 24 months and 61% for 36 months.
An example for the 328xi with your options, from the BMWUSA website, Build Your Own (Try it yourself, you need to educate yourself) :
MSRP $39,250. No automatic trans, no leather, no premium package. If you negotiate $2,000 off MSRP, you'd be at an agreed price of $37,250.
Your whole $1500 to $2000 would be taken up with fees and "drive-off" payments, so I'll assume you'll pay no actual down payment. Assuming you're not a previous BMWFS customer, be sure that you make at least one security deposit to keep your money factor from going up by .00015.
On a 3 year lease, without rolling any inception fees such as the bank fee into your payment, your payment would be about $477 before taxes. For 24 months it would be about $505. The 328i would be a bit lower. If you need auto trans, add about $20 a month to your payment.
I believe I can help you with your questions because I just purchased in December an 2008 328i conv. jet black with black leather premium pkg,ipod adapter and comfort access, pretty similiar to yours, the msrp on this car with these options was 48,300, it's a little more than your msrp because premium pkg. is a little more, anyway after searching all the dealerships in town and out of town I realized noone was wanting to give any discounts at all, because in Houston this car cannot be found it must be ordered, I then tried contacting the internet depts., and found one dealer who could give a measley $500.00 off, which was better than what everyone else said which was better than nothing!!!!
Anyways msrp was 48,300.00. I got .00295% MF and 63% residual on a 36 mos. lease. In Texas you must pay full taxes which is 7.25%. So with 4,000 down at lease signing which was first payment, secruity deposit and aquis.fee $625,and some other bs fees, and what was left from the 4,000 was used as dwn payment my payment turned out to be $748.00, so I don't believe it will be possible to have a payment at $600.00 a month on this car, mabye you should consider a coupe for that payment range!!! If you decide to bust your budget it will def be worth it I love, love, love this car!!!!
navigation
i-pod adapter
sports package
steptronic automatic
MSRP:38550
Neg. Price: 36500
Lease: 36 mo/12K year
rate: .00245
residual: .63
down payment: 1500
government fees: 125.55
taxes: 2281.25
doc fee: 50
sec deposit: 600
Total initial payment: 1500?
Residual: 24286?
monthly payment of 577.65
Im new at this and dont want to get taken to the cleaners the first time. This seems like a bad deal. What can I do to lower the monthly payment substantially?
Any help would be a relief as well as much appreciated. Any thing on here seem a little fishy? This is what the dealer just faxed over. Thanks-
However, the lease program that you are being quoted is off.
2008 BMW 328i Sedan
24 Month – Residual 70% of MSRP – .00165 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 60% of MSRP – .00165 Base Rate
2008 BMW 328xi Sedan
24 Month – Residual 73% of MSRP – .00175 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 63% of MSRP – .00175 Base Rate
A 36 month lease with 12,000 miles per year, should be $488.18 with taxes and inception fees due at signing.
If you need any more help, please feel free to email me or reply.
Source: Bimmerfest.com, "Ask a Dealer" section.
2007 328i sedan
standard package
steptronic automatic
MSRP: 34,550
Neg. Price: 32,500
Lease: 24 months / 15K miles per year
rate: .00245
residual: .71
drive-off: 1,710
MF: 0.00165
monthly payment of 535.65
no deposits
Is this a good deal?
If you need more help, please feel free to email me or reply.
Alpine white
red dakota leather
nav
sports package
Sat Radio
automatic
paddle shifters
36 months/10K miles
The MSRP of this car is $48,195, the only numbers i have are the monthly payments and out of pocket. $625 a month with $4,900 out of pocket, $625 of which is a security deposit. I'm not sure if this is a good deal or not, i know i don't have the specific numbers to be able to do the calculations, but i'm assuming someone on here can tell whether its a good/bad deal based on the 2 numbers i posted. Thanks.
Alpine White
Black Leathrette
Aluminum Trim
BMW assist with Bluetooth
Xenon headlights
$34,725 according to BMW website
Lease in Texas with:
$3000 Estimated Trade-in Value
$1000 Down
24 months
10,000 miles
$359 a month according to BMW website
Is this possible?
That being said, does your $625 a month include taxes? The base money factor for this car for January is .00245 with 58% residual. If $625 of your $4900 is for a security deposit and there is a standard $625 bank fee and I assume $400 in other fees, you would be putting $3250 of your cash down toward the lease. If I assume that you are getting an $800 discount below MSRP, your payment would be about $625 before taxes. Depending on your local tax rate, if this payment includes taxes, the deal is better than it appears.
If the above is true, your dealer may not be marking up the money factor or the bank fee, and may or may not be adding other dealer profit in fees such as "training" or "MACO" fees, but your discount off MSRP is only "okay", and you are putting $3250 cash down on the lease, which is not a good idea.
I'd try to get close to this payment without putting any cash down. Use multiple security deposits and try to get a better discount from MSRP. Make the dealer itemize all of these details so that you know what you are being charged. Read up on leasing and get hold of a lease calculation sheet to see if it all makes sense.
MSRP 48,195
Base Cap Cost of car is 45,850
costs added to lease 1,324
residual 61%
money factor .00245
The MSD don't make any sense for me since i get 12% on my money, which in turn makes no sense to put any money down as u said before.
So with this I'd be looking at a payment of 729 a month......pretty good or no?
I see that your cap cost is $45,850, $2345 less than MSRP. If all of that is a discount by the dealer and not from your cash contribution, that is a very aggressive discount on a 2008 335i Coupe. He's probably making some of that profit back in fees, hence the $1324 rolled into the lease. The lowest amount you could expect to pay in fees would be a $625 bank fee. Anything additional is probably dealer profit. This is usually listed as training fees, "MACO" and other fees. To improve the deal, see if you can negotiate any of that $1324 down. (I assume that you're paying a $750 security deposit up front to get the base money factor rate, along with license tags and other minor fees, and that the security deposit isn't rolled into the lease).
Congrats on getting 12% on your money in today's economy.
Navigation-Ipod-Sports Package
Sales Price=$36,500
Term 36 mos.
Money Factor .00215
MSRP $38,250
Residual 61%
Security deposit $500
Registration fees $1338
Total due @ signing $3,000
Payment $499.50
Good or bad deal?
328xi
Metallic
Premium
Cold
Auto
40925 MSRP
39121 Cap Cost
3yr/10k with 64% residual
MF 0.00195
With tax 510.83
In principle, I know I can get more discount off the MSRP, but how's this deal? The MF looks wrong, and so does this guy's math.
Also, the discount from MSRP of $1750 is not especially good. For this car, you should be able to do better, like $2000 or more.
Also, are you paying cash down as well? You shouldn't ever pay cash down on a lease. $3,000 sounds like a lot due at signing to me. Ask for an itemization of all of the fees, those that are rolled into the lease and those that are paid up front. The only really legitimate fee is a $625 bank fee. Dealers often try to inflate that by up to $200 to add profit. Other small fees, under $100, like DMV filing fees and tire fees are probably legit. Most other fees are dealer profit.
To give you an idea, if you got the .00165 base money factor, and without any fees rolled into the lease, your payment before taxes would be about $465. If you pay sales taxes in your state, you need to add in your tax rate on that payment.
At the base rate, before taxes (since I don't know your tax rate), with a $625 bank fee rolled into the lease, your payment should be about $492. If you pay the bank fee up front, the payment would be $473. Add your tax rate to these payments to see whether the math looks right.
Thanks for your help!