2007 Ford Edge

sammin

The Edge and the Freestyle are not made to compete with each other. Edge= 5 seats and Freestyle = 6/7 seats

The Freestyle's replacement, which will look a lot like the 2005 Fairlane concept according to Ford, will be the big family car/cross-over/mini-van offering in 2008 replacing both the Freestyle and Freestar. Has anyone seen any spy shots yet?

akirby

I know, that's why I said the luggage room comparison with the freestyle 3rd row wasn't valid.

It's not going to look "a lot" like the Fairlane concept - it's going to look exactly like the concept except for the suicide doors. There is a Bold Moves episode on the Ford website explaining that and actually showing the pre-production version of the vehicle.

But nowhere has Ford said that it will replace the Freestyle (yet). Style wise they are very different vehicles and could co-exist or they could take the Freestyle a different direction.

coldcranker

The comparison Edge vs. Freestyle numbers above are from edmunds.com. Yes, the 17.6 Edmunds.com gives the Freestyle is the space behind the 3rd-row seat, not a fair comparison.

redbone

according to AUTOBLOG.COM seems they have some undefined hiccup. They slowed or halted production; they already produced thousands, but won't be available for a few weeks til DEC. They want a successful launch as was the Fusion, Montego, Zephyr last year.

akirby

It's the Vista roof which was ordered on the majority of vehicles. A perfect launch is critical.

philmo

They slowed or halted production; they already produced thousands, but won't be available for a few weeks

May have been a strike, or may be a manufacturing issue. Is either case good? (I Googled around for news last week and ended up at the Oakville employee billboard which mentioned the work stoppage. You'd think they'd have restricted access to something like this.)

Retailers report that large-screen tv sales peak just before SuperBowl weekend. Is there a corresponding sweet-spot for car sales? Is the holiday season really the best time to launch a new car? "Sorry, Timmy, Santa couldn't bring you a new bike this year 'cause he had to make room in the sleigh for daddy's new car" vs. "Hey everybody, look what Santa brought for the whole family!"

Let's hope the delay isn't part of a campaign to heighten buyer anxiety because I'm getting really, really tired of being jacked around by computer companies, camera manufacturers and other adult toy venders hyping the demand of their goods and underdelivering in order to keep prices at peak.

It's a good thing that I don't need to replace an otherwise fine running GrCherokee right now because I'm getting "over" the Edge.

akirby

The strike was from the power plant employees, not the auto workers. There were some consistency issues with the Vista Roof and they want to get it 100% right before they ship anything. 2 weeks is not a big deal. 2 months would be.

In the past they would have just shipped them to meet the date. This is another good sign that things are changing.

antoninb

It's the Vista roof which was ordered on the majority of vehicles. A perfect launch is critical.

Agreed that this is as likely as anything. Several posters on fordedgeforum have commented on this. Ford is alleging that it's due to issues in the manufacturing process. Aside from this being a very generic comment, it's also a comment that doesn't imply that there are any quality issues. Not sure if I buy into their comment.

Agreed that this needs to be an absolutely flawless launch, and that they should take the time to do it right.

bobw3

I believe shoulder room measures from window to window on the inside at approx shoulder height, and hip room measure the interior width at hip height, so from door to door. So in the front seat, this dimension include the center console area and from photos I've seen, the actual seats in the Freestyle and Edge are the same, but the center console is wider in the Edge. That being said, I wouldn't think the Edge has anymore seat space than the Freestyle. I'd like to see front hip room specs that measure the actual width of the seat.

To me, the Edge reminds me of the 1999 Mercury Cougar when it came out. The styling was the main attraction and selling point, and I think it will be the same for the Edge. The problem with the Cougar was the horrible quality ratings that you don't know about for a couple of years, and some cheap feeling interior components. It's impossible to see in photos, where any interior can look good, but when you're actually sitting in the driver's seat and you can easily move the plastic center console from side to side, or switches feel flimsy, and then later on you start needing to repair different components, that could be the demise of the Edge, but hopefully the interior quality is as good as it looks and the mechanical reliability turns out to be good.

I bought a '99 Cougar when it came out because I wanted a sporty hatchback and the competition all had small trunks. The Cougar received great initial reviews, there were a lot of good features on the car (side airbags, ABS, traction control, trip computer, etc...) and the car ran pretty good for the first 100K miles, but in the 8 years and 125K miles that I had it, I had to replace the alternator 3 times, A/C, powersteering lines, tierod, belt tensioner, and there were irritating things happening...flickering dash lights, speakers going in/out, etc. I probably put $4000 in the car in 8 years of ownership, but I got a good deal on it through the Ford family plan, plus it was cheaper to start with compared to the competition.

But today with all of the competition in the CUV/small-SUV category, the Edge better have really good quality if it wants to be a success, and that's hard to judge right now. If it were me, I'd wait a year before considering buying an Edge. And I currently own a Freestyle that I bought when it first came out, but that was because I needed to buy a 3 row vehicle, but I did get a 7yr 100K extended warranty, mostly because of the CVT. The same with the Edge and the new 6sp automatic transmission. If I were to buy the Edge and wanted to keep it for the long-term, I'd probably get an extended warranty as well.

akirby

Actually I just heard from an employee that the latest holdup was that the seat supplier forgot to put on the child tether sticker - which is required by law.

stever

This just showed up on Inside Line.

Grounded: Launch of Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX Delayed

Blame is placed on "assembly-line glitches and hold-ups with parts deliveries by some suppliers"

lateralg

What is the source of the "another review"?

heyjewel

Here it is:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2006-11-16-edge_x.htm

coldcranker

In the edmunds.com full test of the Edge: "...The problem is the brakes are not ventilated and need to slow some 4,500 pounds of hurtling metal. The result was a hair-raising 152-foot stop from 60 mph. To put that uninspiring distance into perspective, the 7,550-pound Ford F-350 Super Duty 4x4 recorded a 142-foot stop in a recent heavy-duty truck comparison test. Obviously, Ford will need to address this shortcoming soon...."

See what too much weight in a small package can do? Ford needs to optimize the structure, although that would be very expensive at this point.

fundad

DUDE you drive a 98 Grand Cherokee and you are worried about a Ford's reliability? CR rates Grand Cherokee as about as reliable as 1980 chevette.

... As if people actually listen to CR anymore. James Guest, CEO??? of CR also has HUGE stock in Toyota. Makes you think.

stever

Got a cite for that claim about Guest and his stock ownership? I don't see anything on the net about it. :confuse:

coldcranker

fundad,
Where did you hear/read that the CR CEO, James Guest, has a lot of Toyota stock? If it is in one of his mutual funds, and is less than 5% of his portfolio, its not a problem. I couldn't google it successfully to corroborate. I did find a great car news website, for all makes, and a good Ford Edge news site: Ford Edge news (and other Ford news) click here

fsmmcsi

On September 18, my best estimates of fuel mileage were FWD 18 / 26 and AWD 16 / 25. Edmunds reports (in the test drive) that the actual ratings are FWD 18 / 25 and AWD 17 / 24. Even as much as I drive, the difference between the 17/24 rating of the Edge I did not buy and the 15/21 rating of the V8 RWD Explorer I did buy works out to just $50 per month, certainly a trivial cost for all of the extra space (which I use) and the pleasure of having a V8 and RWD. Is anyone else who is/was considering an Edge also considering an Explorer now that the mileage data is out?

lateralg

Depends on whether one wants a truck derivative or a car derivative.

coldcranker

fsmmcsi, The only real reason to get the Explorer over a unit-body CUV would be towing. Everything else about the Explorer (handling, braking, steering, etc.) is worse, including MPG. The Freestyle is longer and wider, and gets 20 city / 27 highway, with about 8.5 seconds 0-60, while an Explorer is about 1 second faster 0-60 while paying for it in MPG. Compared to the Edge, the Explorer does look a little better.

fundad

fundad,
Where did you hear/read that the CR CEO, James Guest, has a lot of Toyota stock? If it is in one of his mutual funds, and is less than 5% of his portfolio, its not a problem. I couldn't google it successfully to corroborate. I did find a great car news website, for all makes, and a good Ford Edge news site

Thats just something that I remember about 5, 6, maybe 7 years ago. Not sure of the details but just recalling from the past. It had something to do with Toyota stock and his position with it regarding reports of other makes of vehicles in CR. After all this had happened alot of vehicles that were labled "to stay away from" suddenly became a "CR top pick" the next year. And I may be wrong about all this but it does stick out in my memory.
It just seems that the 30 or so cars I have owned in the past, the ones that used to be the "good ones" from CR were complete piles of junk. And the ones that were labled "not reliable" were by far the best I have owned. They even had the fuel mileage way off as they reported. So I dont put alot of faith in what CR writes about anymore.

stever

The net took off around 1994 so you'd think there'd be some info out there about Guest if he was rolling in Toyota stock.

Not that I'm a big fan of CR either; they steered me wrong on a canoe in 1974 and I still hold a grudge. :shades: What kills me is that people will pay them for invoice info when Edmunds gives it away for free. You'd think informed consumers would know better, LOL.

rcf8000

For about the same money, I think there are a lot of reasons to choose an Explorer over the Edge, not just towing capability. How about cargo capacity, off road capability, and third row seat? I'll bet that a lot of buyers who go in to look at an Edge drive out with an Explorer. I assume that this would be fine with Ford.

akirby

Maybe a few, but I think most Edge shoppers have already decided on a CUV or small sport-ute. I could see someone getting an Escape, but not an Explorer.

rcf8000

The Edge and Explorer are both upscale from the Escape. The Escape lacks basic features that would be deal breakers for many people, like power front passenger seat, automatic climate control, and memory driver's seat.

akirby

True, but a lot of folks want smaller CUVs/SUVs with better fuel economy and those would most likely stick with the Escape/Edge or a competitor.

I'm probably trading out of an Aviator into a MKX or Edge (or CX-9 or CR-V or.....) in another year or so.

bobw3

The difference is that people going for the Edge are looking for something sporty and with style. They don't care about the weight, as long as the performance is good.

beerme1

I see an ad here in Buffalo that says coming Nov. 27th
I'm sure there will be some around before that but I am guessing that is a date that everyone will have them. At least around here anyways.

antoninb

Maybe a few, but I think most Edge shoppers have already decided on a CUV or small sport-ute. I could see someone getting an Escape, but not an Explorer.

Agreed here - based on our demographic (2 upscale professionals with no kids) and MPG concerns due to a 45 minute commute twice daily. We've already had the Escape out, and have noted it's limits and it's appeal. An Explorer is too big and "truck like" for us. If I had any tolerance whatsoever for Honda, then I'd look at the new CRV, but I'm resolved never to buy another Honda ever. Sad, after 3 Accords and one CRV.

I've been watching the Edge closely for a while, and will very seriously consider it once I can put my paws on one. 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe is also high on the short list.

bobw3

What sort of honda problems did you have? just curious.

coldcranker

The Edge is almost good enough. Not quite, though. I'd recommend an MPG champ: Freestyle FWD at 20city/27 highway, or its sedan cousin, the Ford500 at 21city/29highway MPG, not bad for a large vehicle. Don't believe the critics about acceleration not being good enough, those vehicles will do 0-60 in 8.5 seconds with an aluminum 24-valve V6.

philmo

Well, Carspace has been a great resource but I'm bailing out on the SUV purchase until 2008. I hopped in our Grand Cherokee yesterday for the 65-mile drive to the airport and thought "why in the heck am I selling this now?" Paid for, 20 mpg, nothing below on the garage floor, more than capable off-road and I can stuff a pontoon boat in the back.

Sure, eventually it'll need to be replaced but there's nothing out there right now that I fell in love with was compelling enough to make me get rid of a usable vehicle in great shape.

Thanks all for your input. Let's do this again after the Highlander is redesigned, the Edge and CX-9 have been around enough for feedback, Toyoter gets rid of the barn door (we hope), Murano gets a facelift and lastly maybe there's a great big surprise out there that we haven't seen yet.

rafael2

http://www.usatoday.com/money/gallery/testdrive/flash.htm?gdrop1=2007%20Ford%20E- dge%20and%20Lincoln%20MKX&gdrop2=&gdrop3=
:surprise:

coldcranker

Thanks for the link. I basically feel about the same way as the USA-Today tester. The Edge isn't "bad", but there are better choices in that price range and category of vehicle. When the tester says the tranny has delayed downshift, I was surprised, since this GM/Ford tranny has been getting nothing but superb reviews elsewhere.

cowbell

It's not just the transmission that's getting completely different opinions from different journalists. The interior quality and the engine are also getting killed and praised at the same time.

This definitely seems like a polarizing vehicle that I think people are going to need to see and drive themselves to see if it's for them.

mschmal

People who love and write about cars.

People who flunked out of NASCAR or Formula 1 and now write about cars because they think they are "experts".

I hate when people evaluate a minivan or a small economy car as if it were a Ferrai competitor and then bash the vehicle because its not "sporty" enough for them.

If a vehicle executes the mission it was intended for well, then it should get a good review.

Mark.

coldcranker

mschmal (Mark): I agree. Thats why some people buy the Freestar mini-van, for example. I previously had a '95 Windstar (Freestar ancestor) and it was awesome on interior space and ride comfort. It was like a roomy Cadillac. If one values that over other attributes, then the Freestar should be at the top of their list, especially because you can get a base model for about $19k. The Edge should be bought on its looks, safety, quietness, and/or ride comfort, as its other attributes are not fully competitive. Still, those are good qualities to those looking for it.

markan

I totally agree with these comments. If all purchasers were looking for exactly the same thing we would all be driving the same vehicle. There is no perfect vehicle and everyone must find the one that meets there needs the best. As 50 somethings coming off a lifetime of minivans my wife and I are looking for the attributes you listed for the Edge. Performance is important but the level of performance we are looking for is different than what others may demand. Test drives for us will begin as soon as the Edge arrives but right now it looks like the Edge and Rav4 are our first choices.

coldcranker

markan, Still, as much as I like the ride comfort, safety cage (airbags, RSC) on the Edge, it bothers me that Ford is putting a new design on the street that is not competitive in braking distances. Thats going backwards, not forward, as Ford touts. One other point: Good vehicle handling and agility are necessary for the occasional life-saving emergency maneuvers. The bad skidpad numbers reveal a problem on the Edge in doing emergency maneuvers. If I had my way, I would tell every vehicle manufacturer that they have to meet a minimum level of agility because thats a safety area. The reality is that people buy vehicles for a lot of reasons and forget about the agility differences that would allow the vehicle to stop in time or evade a sudden obstacle on the road in front of them. Just witness the flippy tendency of Toyota Forrunners (high-cg rolly SUV) and the popularity of that model. Ford advertises the Edge on their website as having "sporty handling"... yeah, right, and my next door neighbor plays basketball just like Jordan. Actually, my Freestyle will outperform the Edge in handling, yet its not advertised as "sporty".

fordwrench

Coldcranker, 99% of drivers NEVER get near the max skidpad numbers or min. brake distances. Nobody from the general public has driven the Edge yet, nobody knows how that vehicle FEELS at 60-70-80% of its capacity. Ultimite performance numbers rarely tell you how a vehicle feels in everyday driving. Preproduction vehicles are beat up from all the "testing" the car mags. perform on them. Can't we all just wait & drive one to see how it drives?

coldcranker

fordwrench, Emergency maneuevers ARE important. And leave the car testing to CarAndDriver, etc. People don't normally test-drive cars with instrumentation attached with carefully designed tests which reveal the real story, and that has already happened.

lateralg

"The bad skidpad numbers reveal a problem on the Edge in doing emergency maneuvers"

How much of the "bad" numbers are due to the RSC, etc. doing their job?

This is not a Corvette, Miata or Mustang. It's a vehicle I'd be comfortable having my teenager or wife driving. The RSC & other electronics provide me with this comfort.

As for braking, we should wait for some side-by-side comparisons with PRODUCTION vehicles. Also, did the testers do the "stomp & steer" method of panic braking as recommended, or are they merely objecting to a pedal feel that's different from a Corvette? I don't think we know the answers to these questions.

If they did the "stomp & steer", then the difference is tires.

mschmal

I hope that the Edges show up with some fat rubber on them.

Mark.

fordwrench

My point is 99% of the general public will not use 100% of a vehicles ability, what matters is how a vehicle "feels" to them in every day and in a real life emergency. That feeling will be very different than any number posted during a magazine "test" on a preproduction model that has been beat up & abused before that test.

coldcranker

I've never really put my seat belts and airbags to the test, but I want them there. I also want competitive braking and handling dynamics, just in case. Its really about competition, as one wants to know if that $26,000 they just spent could have been better spent on better engineering. High-CG vehicles like the Edge lift wheels in corners and braking situations, and are more prone to rollover.

coldcranker

Car and Driver reported that the RSC did not intervene on the skidpad when the Edge got the slightly-low numbers. The benchmark is the Murano, and the Edge is not equalling it in many key areas in thorough and thoughtful tests done by experts. Leave it to the expert testers, like you would leave a complex brake overhaul to an expert tech like fordwrench or a trial to a lawyer. To get at the truth about performance, one needs to ignore the propaganda from Ford and compare hard numbers and read the commentary.

lateralg

If the RSC didn't intervene, what was the limiting factor?

They are not considered "expert testers" IMO because they put entirely different vehicles through the same battery of tests.

I'll consider them "expert" when they understand the intended purpose/market of a group of vehicles, and test them accordingly.

coldcranker

Tire grip, high mass, high-cg, and the suspension all contributed to the slightly disappointing skidpad numbers. C'mon, these C&D testers are great car nuts, very thoughtfull about context, etc., and some are engineers.

lateralg

This does not answer the question.

Either the vehicle RSC was activated, the tires lost their grip, or the driver lacked skill or courage. Which was it?

G.

BSME, MSAE

coldcranker

lateralg, Another engineer! I'm a BSME, MSAE, and MSCS (flight controls, simulation, systems, software) myself. You, then, know that the Edge is high off the ground, has high mass, etc. Also, roll stiffness plays a role. Tire grip is important. The way C&D runs the tests is to go as fast as they can in a standard-sized circle and see how high a lateral-g they get before simply sliding off the track. And they noted that the RSC never intervened before deviating from the circle (light on dash). Tires are 235 mm. I just noticed the weight listed on Edmunds is 4073 for a FWD model, not too bad really. As others have said, the Vista Roof + AWD hardware can add 400 lbs. Could be a tire change would make the difference.