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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS



  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    ED (the good kind)…too bad they don’t offer it with the M3. I personally would prefer to spend 48K (44K Invoice) on a “base” M3 than a loaded IS350 or 330i.

    Sunroof – just gets sun in my eyes
    SMG – no need in getting a performance sedan if you go this route
    Power Mirrors, Seats – how many times do I need to adjust these
    Heated seats/power rear shade/parking distance sonar – fluff
    Stereo – Either I have the AC blowing loud, or if it’s not hot I have the windows open, so who can tell the difference.


    To tell the truth…if all I wanted was “content” the just reviewed Hyundai Azera seems to offer the most for the least (plus 265hp...0-60 6.5 with an auto) for under 30K.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 123
    I have to disagree to some extent. I thought your definition of handling was spot on. However, to me, performance is not the exclusive domain of acceleration and speed. Rather, how well each car would do if put on a road race track. One disparate example, take a Nissan Altima V6 and a Mazda Miata. I believe the Altima V6 would win the drag race, but the Miata would win on most road race courses. I would consider the Miata to perform better, all around, then the Altima.

    How about another example of similar cars, a 330i Sport versus a G35x. I would argue that for many people in the US, the G35X is the all around better performer. True, the 330 should edge the G35x in the dry, but throw a bit of rain, ice, or snow into the mix and the G35x should leave the 330i "all wet". So, the better performer would be different for someone who lives in SoCal then from someone who lives in upstate NY.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,346
    you can argue about which car wins which catagory (and of course the criteria for "winning" is going to be somewhat subjective). But, as an outsider (I don't currently own either make), both these cars have a lot of each catagory!

    So, IMO, even finishing second in a camparo doesn't exactly make either car a "loser". The world just isn't quite that absolute.

    But, that's why there are so many choices available, so there should be something for everyone (kinda like spouses...)

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • newcarsnewcars Posts: 103
    First, I'd like to add "braking" to another characteristic of performance. That is another "objective" characteristic that I would personally qualify under "performance". Having said that:

    You know what, sdiver68, I don't totally disagree with you. However, I think your race course example also brings into question the idea of "handling". I would say that "performance" has to do with how fast you get from point A to point B while "handling" is more about how well you take the twists and turns. Thus, the road race brings in aspects of both.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Comparing a 330 to a G35x is bogus - just as 330xi to G35. Compare a G35 to a 330 or a 330xi to a G35x.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    "However, to me, performance is not the exclusive domain of acceleration and speed. Rather, how well each car would do if put on a road race track."

    This is precisely the "performance/handling" balance that BMW builds cars to achieve. Even such things as loads on the transmission over a lengthy road race will come into the picture as a "performance" attribute. For example, Porsche builds cars that can be purchased and raced the same day right off the lot. Various BMW's can also achieve this better than the majority of their competitors.

    Since we don't live on the race track, we often overlook "unseen" attributes of one car or the other... I just happen to believe BMW excels in the achievement of the overall performance balance issue.
  • "Comparing a 330 to a G35x is bogus - just as 330xi to G35. Compare a G35 to a 330 or a 330xi to a G35x."

    This comparison was designed to show the difference in performance they would exhibit in different circumstances, ie. wet weather, snow. Making a night and day comparison was the point to show how one would fair in snow vs. dry pavement. He might have been better off saying G35x to G35 RWD to avoid this whole situation in the first place, I guess...

    "So, the better performer would be different for someone who lives in SoCal then from someone who lives in upstate NY."

    Exactly. It depends on what your performance criteria is. An F1 car is a high-performance car, but stick it on a rally course and its performance sucks!

    Depends what your needs are.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,346
    also remember that numbers don't tell the whole story. There is also the feel/experience of the drive, and also control (how it works at the limits). On paper, a Camaro Z28 was a killer (fast, good handling numbres), but in the real world, it didn't really work that well.

    Some cars also get pretty hairy at their limits, although those limits might be high.

    IMO, one thing that BMW has usually done well is produce cars thats "feel" good in normal use, and that you could drive at or near the limit with confidence.

    So, in many cases, you might enjoy a car with lower limits (on paper), if you could actually come close to hitting them without giving yourself skidmarks.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    would consider the BMW if the interior didn't make me want to puke and the reliability was not an issue

    Is reliability an issue for the 3 series? That is news to me? I have been researching the stats and I see no reliability issues! Your claim sounds bogus to me! I would really appreciate it if you can back up your claim about BMW3 reliability issues with facts!

    The e90 interior makes you puke? Aren't you that same fellow who was dazzled by the interior of a Toyota Avalon? ;)

    I guess to each his own(some people do love geriatric-type designs)!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    So Toyota claims 5.3 for the IS 350 in "0 to 60"!

    Welll in this case Reality Bites:

    Refer to the R & T comparisons(Nov/Dec) between the 330, is350 and g35!

    I am using the R&T stats provided by jrock65's post 4741 in the following forum:

    SPEED (R&T) Comparo

    1) 330i
    2) G35
    3) IS350

    The 330i and G35 were both 6MT.

    0-60, 1/4 mile:

    G35: 5.8s, 14.4s
    IS350: 6.0s, 14.5s
    330i: 6.2s, 14.9s


    G35: 116 ft
    330i: 124 ft
    IS350: 128 ft
  • Hi Dewey;
    Yea, I read the same SPEED article and it seems to hit the nail on the head. I went to the local WInnipeg Lexus dealer this week, when I was taking in my G35 for service. The 2 dealerships are right next door to each other and owned by the same Auto Group. I sat in an I250 and it was small. The sales person kept telling me how fast the Is350 was and he said that G wasn't even close to it!
    The first numbers out from Lexus(C&D,etc) were probably with an early testor that was running a little "richer" than what would be sold. People have to realize that the IS350 has 12;1 compression in the pistons which means 100 Octane fuel to make use of the added compression.
    The Canadian prices are jacked up as well which leaves the G35 a steal here in Canada. The same old pricing that killed the new Acura RL here in Canada.
    Have a great day.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Hi gbabaluk,

    it's nice to finally meet someone who cares about Canadian pricing!

    The worst culprit is Porsche! The Porsche Cayman reflects a US/Cdn $ exchange rate that is around to 45 to 50 percent!

    The Acura RL reflects 40%.

    And most Lexus models are absurdly priced also!

    Among the best companies for Canadian pricing is Honda(including the Acura TL but certainly not the RL)!

    BMW pricing lies somewhere between the extremes of Lexus/Porsche and the more moderate Honda prices(except the RL)!
  • Hi Dewey;
    Right on about the Acura TL! I don't know what happned to Acura on the RL. I expected about $60KCDN pricing for the RL and it came in at about $70K!
    One of my buddies has a Porsche 911 and another has a BMW z3 and I didn't even ask about he price.
    Anyway, I wanted to consider the IS350 but I'll just keep looking and driving my just as fast and better handling G35!
    Have a great day!
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    That's an interesting write up... I feel both cars are in the same class but they're completely different cars, you know; the same but different. For bells, whistles, and luxury I would choose the Lexus hands down. For performance, roadfeel, and cornering the BMW hands down. You do put a spin on this whole discussion by taking a lot out of context too. Seems you don't like BMW's, and I've never felt any car's interior would cause me to vomit. As for reliability, I've owned several BMW's circa 1997 and newer and have put over 200,000 miles on them and not once, not a single time did they leave me stranded from a breakdown, or failed to start. No joke. ;)
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    Yes, the 325 is a BORING CAR. It's BMW loss leader! It is cheap, by a large margin. It's demographic is 20-25 year olds, and it shows. Have you talked to any new 325 owners? They're freakingly childish. Just go to and try to compare a lexus with them and they get millitant! Seriously. It's actually rather entertaining to watch the dialog.

    I find it hard to believe that you don't recognize a bmw against the backdrop of japanese designs out there... there is a stark contrast imo. Maybe it's the morphene JK ;) you're on.

    Apparently you're part of the shiny shirt club since you like things that are flashy; heck you might even be blond (JK) - a car might look fun inside, and that's what you're looking for, but I'm looking for a car that performs better than it LOOKS. ; ) ;)
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    Shipping cost is included with the price. So is insurance. A lot is included with the ED price. You need to do your research before you knock a post, IMO. ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The demographic of the 325 is quite irrelevant. Most manufacturers want a loss leader that is the flop like the 325. Do you think some of the comments about the acceleration of the 350 is any more mature than what you allude to?
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    I'm with you 100%.
    There is Luxury Performance, the measure of how nice a ride is. There is cornering performance, the mesure of how many g's you can pull in the skid pad. Then there is straight line performance. "Performance" is very objective and needs to be "handled" with specific measurements. BMW clearly does the best job of satisfying the visceral aspect of driving and very high marks for luxury at the same time. Lexus does a superb job with pampering you and solid feel, while their performance execution is only good on paper. It's really that simple. At Laguna Seca, the 330i will kick the snot out of a IS350... A trip to Vegas? I would take the Lexus. :shades:
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    The demographic of the 325 is quite irrelevant to what?
    Most manufactures want a loss leader that is the flop like the 325?
    ***When did the 325 become a flop?***
    Do I think some of the comments about the acceleration of the 350 is any more mature than what I'm alluding to? I don't know what the heck you're talking about? I was talking about the 325, not the IS 350... you're assume too much. :confuse: :sick:
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    I don't think kdshapiro is reading the whole thread before jumping in... I did that when I first joined this forum because the messages aren't grouped together very well... ;)
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    Honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw a NEW BMW, MB or Lexus on the side of the road. In fact I haven't seen ANY NEW CARS on the side of the road... This is hogwash!
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    Excellent write up. The VDUM, er VDIM or the YAW control takes the YE-HAW out of the car at .80G. Insert YAWN here... LOL! That's why you felt something awry around the twisties; silly huh? With that much meat at the back end something is wrong... they're hiding something ugly that happens at .85g's I'm sure. :shades:
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    I agree 100% Another consideration to this performance balance comparison is SAFETY! The better a car performs in all areas of performance handling the better it will be in negotiating and ultimately avoiding an accident...

    The difference between hitting a pedestrian and missing one in an emergency stop is a few inches. :shades:
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    Lexus has the least trouble free cars because the drivers aren't giving the Lexus any trouble. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SPIRITED DRIVING IN A LEXUS.

    I read this somewhere; give a couch to a frat house and a couch to your grandmother, check on the status of both couches in a year...
  • j0mammaj0mamma Posts: 26
    You're Lexus Dumb drunk. :blush:
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Great solo act! ;)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    It's demographic is 20-25 year olds

    As kdshapiro said, demographics for the 325 is irrelevant!
    But if you insist it is relevant, I am willing to wager that you are incorrect unless you have stats to prove it!

    Have you talked to any new 325 owners? They're freakingly childish

    According to you I have not yet reached my adolescence since I drive a a infantile and dated 99 323i!

    So was buying my 323i an act of childishness?

    Seven years ago I was going to buy a Honda Accord V6 until I test drove a BMW323i and found out it would cost me only a few thousands dollars more than a Accord! So I bought the BMW instead! Does that sound childish to you?

    Also I was in my early 30s when I bought my BMW323. According to your demographic view I was sort of like being the 12 year old student in a grade one class, dont you think?

    One thing I can tell you for certain and that is when I buy a future BMW330 or a BMW5 series my own demographic views on BMW325 drivers will not turn negative!
This discussion has been closed.