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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

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    gordonwdgordonwd Member Posts: 337
    The Detroit News's Auto section yesterday had a comparison test between the 330i and IS350. (It was done by Paul & Anita Leinert -- maybe they are syndicated in other papers?) After rating the cars in several categories, they gave the win to the BMW, saying that although Lexus is aiming at the 3-series, the 3-series presents a "moving target" and has improved with the new E90.

    The only category where the IS350 was a clear winner was the drivetrain, as they liked the added power and also the transmission (they compared automatics only). One interesting comment was that they thought the IS350's interior was "cold and Teutonic", where the 330i's was more "warm and inviting". So how's that for a turnabout? Lexus over-Germanized their car? They also gave the BMW extra points for features like rain-sensing wipers, adaptive headlights and taillights, etc.

    Of course, a car comparison test that takes up just a few inches of newspaper column space is not very comprehensive, but I thought that their evaluation adds fuel to the fire.
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    gtoskylinegtoskyline Member Posts: 68
    very funny, "330i's (interior) was more "warm and inviting."

    At least IS350 got a clean winner on the drivetrain.
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    mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Yes, that Lexus IS interior sure is spartan...

    :confuse:
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    deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    :confuse: :confuse:
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    deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The latest : Motor Trends Top 3 Picks

    Winner - Honda Civic
    2nd - Mazda MX-5
    3rd - BMW 3-series

    So how does the Lexus IS or GS rank?

    LOL, I remember several forum members had predicted that Lexus will jolt BMW out of its Benchmark Role!
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    gtoskylinegtoskyline Member Posts: 68
    It takes time for people to realize that IS350 is a much better car than 330i. BMW better come up with their 335i soon.
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    deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    BMW will be in no rush whatsoever in introducing a 335 until Infiniti introduces a more potent G with a likely 3.7L engine.
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    lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    "It takes time for people to realize that IS350 is a much better car than 330i. BMW better come up with their 335i soon."

    Absurd commentary such as this offers nothing to the discussion of both cars. Both hit the targets that their respective companies had in mind and subsequently appeal to distinct buyers with a certain measure of cross-over.
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    rotoryfanrotoryfan Member Posts: 111
    "Absurd commentary such as this offers nothing to the discussion of both cars. Both hit the targets that their respective companies had in mind and subsequently appeal to distinct buyers with a certain measure of cross-over."

    Absurd commentary like this is disrespectful of others opinion and defeats the purpose of this forum - the opportunity for others to express their opinions.
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    dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    That makes maybe the 10'th time I've seen those Detroit free press writers say absolutely ridiculous things. There reviews {every time I read them} are so ludicrous it's funny. Easily the worst car journalists I've ever seen. Just MO.... :confuse:
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Absurd commentary like this is disrespectful of others opinion and defeats the purpose of this forum - the opportunity for others to express their opinions."

    I don't think anybody is suggesting that people curb their opinions, but the question remains: What is better and by whose measure?
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    gordonwdgordonwd Member Posts: 337
    Winner - Honda Civic
    2nd - Mazda MX-5
    3rd - BMW 3-series

    This is the top 3 of what??? An overall popularity contest or something? I can't think of any category where these vehicles would be compared heads-up.
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    gordonwdgordonwd Member Posts: 337
    That makes maybe the 10'th time I've seen those Detroit free press writers say absolutely ridiculous things. There [sic] reviews {every time I read them} are so ludicrous it's funny.

    Actually, I tend to agree with you. They now seem to think that all vehicles sold should come with heated everything, in-car entertainment DVD systems, etc., etc. I recently saw them knock a car because it didn't have an option for a heated steering wheel. Heated steering wheel? Give me a break! Ever heard of gloves? ;)
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    is3ooguyis3ooguy Member Posts: 68
    I think it was for Car of the Year.
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    gtoskylinegtoskyline Member Posts: 68
    Absurd commentary?
    People should give IS350 &330i long testdrives to compare them (auto vs. auto of course,330i wins at manual).
    Not just focusing on the cornering, compare the engines, transmissions, sound systems,Navigation systems, interior material quality, luxury contents,ride quality,prices,...

    and smart key vs smart key :)

    0-60 5.3s vs 6.7s is a huge difference for me.

    I am not hating BMW. They should just offer better performances or better price.

    I am out of this discussion.
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    lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Good!
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    lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    You completely missed the point! Expressing opinions is healthy... making baseless and unsupportable statements about "X is better then Y" is absurd. Such comments add NOTHING to intelligent discourse. How about adding "IMHO" to such comments?
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    mldj98mldj98 Member Posts: 378
    Just read a comparison on Autoweb.com between these 2 cars and they give the overall edge to the IS350! The IS took every category except handling....because of the VDIM kicking in when pushing the IS350 into corners the 330i edged it there....it was a close review....but I think they picked the right one for the overall best luxury/sport sedan.....so the IS is getting it's props!!!
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    rotoryfanrotoryfan Member Posts: 111
    You completely missed the point! Expressing opinions is healthy... making baseless and unsupportable statements about "X is better then Y" is absurd. Such comments add NOTHING to intelligent discourse. How about adding "IMHO" to such comments?

    If another person feels the IS is better than the 3 then it is not "baseless and unsupportable" - that input is as valuable as your own. Of course the forum is based on opinions - this is about the subjective appeal two different cars. Key word being subjective.
    You are not here to define "intelligent" discourse and your comment that it was "good" that he left the discussion was rude (IMHO). Ease up on the arrogance.
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    tsp9tsp9 Member Posts: 1
    BMW will be in no rush whatsoever in introducing a 335 until Infiniti introduces a more potent G with a likely 3.7L engine

    I'm almost certain BMW will pump up the horsepower for the upcoming model year. It's a logical step considering the 330 is now at the bottom of the class (in terms of horsepower)
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    deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    And historically BMW usually is at the bottom of the class in terms of horsepower.

    HP is just a small part of what defines the performance and handling of any car!
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    is3ooguyis3ooguy Member Posts: 68
    0-60 5.3s vs 6.7s is a huge difference for me.

    It's no where near that difference. You're picking the best 0-60 time you have seen for the IS350 and the worst one for the 330i. Nice, real nice. That's being fair!
    I know for a fact, the 330i according to C&D can do 0-60 in 5.6! I have the issue with it on the cover ;) That said, yup, 0-60 the IS350 is faster. Cool! Sounds like a fun ride but as others have said that's only one of the aspects by which to judge these cars.

    And don't tell me you are going to take/use the 0-60 time published by BMW (which is known to be conservative) for an auto 330i just because Lexus didn't want to offer us a manual.
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    rotoryfanrotoryfan Member Posts: 111
    A head-to-head review of the IS350 vs 330

    http://www.autoweb.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/861
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    lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    When someone states that the IS350 "is a much better car" than the 330i, I'm afraid that sort of comment is arrogant and offers absolutely nothing to this conversation. I can imagine that many Lexus/Infiniti/Acura owners balk when German car afficionato's state the same regarding their perception that the BMW/MB/Audi "is a much better car".

    I am a BMW and MB owner who has never made such a clueless comment regarding Lexus/Infiniti/Acura. All are great, but not all are right for each driver. For me to say that my 530SP "is a much better car" than your GS/IS/M/G would be the height of arrogance.

    Hope you can see the point I'm making.
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    suave_tequilasuave_tequila Member Posts: 116
    Well good for you, you want a cookie!? :P
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    rotoryfanrotoryfan Member Posts: 111
    Point taken. Happy Holidays!
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    lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    When you bake a batch, have me over :P
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    lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Point-Counter Point! Believe me, these are all great cars without a real "dud" in the bunch. Competition is a good thing. Happy Holidays to you as well...
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    mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    You really hit the nail on the head and then gave it a good whack for good measure!

    I like that.

    Happy holidays from your neighbour in the Great White North!
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    deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    It appears the new 3 series sales is boosting the success of BMW.

    http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/051205/5eesuite.lunch.htm
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    lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    And best to you and yours up North :) With my Dad from Maine, I coulda' been Canadian if the family had stayed put. I'm proud to be from your Southern neighbor and proud to call a number of Canadians friends...
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    mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    ... do it, but I like a little controversey once in a while!

    Enjoy!

    (all in good fun... :P )

    image
    image

    I knew I saw those headlight markers somewhere before as I gazed at a new 2006 330i. . .

    Don't get me wrong, I like the exterior of the 330i more and more every day, but this is in response really to all the "the Lexus looks like this and copied that" that I have heard all too often.
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    suave_tequilasuave_tequila Member Posts: 116
    I wouldn't ever seen that coming! From a chevy too!
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    ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    image

    image

    image

    image
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    suave_tequilasuave_tequila Member Posts: 116
    I cant stop laughing. Ok the 1st pic yeah ok I see some similarities, but the accord uhh.....naw!LOL ok maybe the headlights!
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    deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I cant stop laughing. Ok the 1st pic yeah ok I see some similarities, but the accord uhh.....naw!LOL ok maybe the headlights!

    How much tequila do you soak in your baked cookies??

    How many have you consumed before feeling giddy over those pictures??
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    suave_tequilasuave_tequila Member Posts: 116
    It was funny cuz my friend and I were beting which car looked like the IS from a rear angle. And my friend said the Hyundai, and boom! We saw your post! Oh and to answer your questions:
    1. At least 2 bottles (I think)
    and
    2.It was more than tequila that made me giggle!
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    mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    I don't know, I see more of
    image
    in this
    image

    and this
    image
    in this
    image

    But that's just me!
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    inqinq Member Posts: 10
    BMW's official 0-60 data for AT is 6.3; MT 6.1. As a side note, there is much greater discrepancy in top speed: 130 for AT v 149 for MT (elec limited).

    Most 330is are in fact purchased w/AT in US as everyone knows. Nevertheless, the failure to even offer MT - no matter how smooth the AT is - is very telling (IMO) about Lexus' goal for IS350. Clearly, Lexus believes that US consumers want power and comfort over "feel" and true sporting characteristics. I, too, believe the same and expect that the IS350 will -more so than G35, TL, or MB- prove to be a formidable competitor to the 330i, at least in the US market; but Lexus will be hindered by its well established image. IMO, Lexus had focused its marketing at certain demographics by featuring people rather than its cars in its ads in contrast to BMW ads. In any event, BMW's answer hopefully won't be in the form of a larger displacement/turbo charged engine. (Turbo seems like cheating?!) I would rather see a Competition/Performance package offered for the 330i along with a re-introduction of a M3 sedan as some people have predicted.
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Clearly, Lexus believes that US consumers want power and comfort over "feel" and true sporting characteristics"

    One reason BMWs sell well is that Americans want power, comfort and feel. One reason Lexus' sell well is their target market likes power and comfort and doesn't care about feel. Each has a different version of comfort and feel that caters to their respective audiences. Myself? I like plain, simple and comfortable. For that reason Lexus and Audi interiors drive me crazy. I could easily be happy in a WRX Sti that does 0 to 60 in 4 seconds with a 160 top end. However, it just doesn't have the BMW road feel.
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    deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Automobile Magazine Car of the Year: BMW e90

    Automobile Magazine Technology of the Year: BMW e90 magnesium engine

    link title
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    mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    I sure felt the IS 350. :)

    I guess the thing that appeals to me the most about the IS 350 is that it offers the whole package.

    I don't think any of us will convince the other to choose another car over the other, and we shouldn't. What are we, communists?

    We should just be grateful we can have opinions in the first place.

    To say that their (Lexus) target market doesn't "care" about feel is a little off the mark. A Lexus drives well, but is not a sport car and does not try to be one. I love Lexis, but also if I had a choice at a profession besides mine that I have right now, I would choose to drive professionally . I care about feel in a car, but sometimes it just isn't necessary to buy a sedan to be a dedicated sports car.

    When I drove the IS 350, I found that it was the perfect blend of car in a sexy sport sedan. If you are a skilled driver, you can have your way with the car, but if you want to be in the lap of luxury and ease off the sharp turns, the throttle, and enjoy the fine leather, ventilated seats, premium stereo, and stylish interior, you can.

    Overall, in my opinion, the appeal of the interior is several times better than the blocky, unwelcomming (to me) interior of the BMW.

    I look for a little more than just feel in the steering wheel, but when I am looking at a sport sedan, I do look for feel, but it just doesn't break the deal if it doesn't have the feel of a BMW; there's more to a car for me than just that.

    I do, however respect your opinion.
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "To say that their (Lexus) target market doesn't "care" about feel is a little off the mark."

    These two cars both excel in their own right in different areas. I've said many times on these boards, each buyer has their own set of priorities.

    Get in the car, turn on the ignition, listen to the well-tuned growl of the engine, enjoy the razor sharp handling....I'm in heaven. If the car fits the preceding description...I'm there.
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    wigglingwiggling Member Posts: 4
    This is a repost since this thread is more suitable. Would appreciate comments:

    Hi All,

    I'm thinking about either the IS250 AWD or a BMW 330xi. This is my first new car purchase in a long time. Went to the Lexus dealership for a test drive. I live in Chicago and there was a dusting of snow on the ground - nothing remotely serious.

    First strange thing: the guy coming in from his test drive remarks that the "driver assist" feature came on during his test drive. I didn't pay much attention. However, I was taking a pretty easy turn which would not have been a problem for my old Camry and the IS slipped on the turn causing the driver assist feature to kick in.

    This disturbed me. I don't think (though I have little experience) the 330xi would have done that. Could this just be a tire issue or is this driver assist system screwed up?

    Has anyone else experienced this with the IS, or has anyone driven the IS in snow? I like the features for price of the IS though it feels a little cramped, but I really liked the way the BMW drove. Felt very firm and controlled. However, it wasn't snowing when I test drove the BMW.

    I have never owned either a lexus or a bmw. Thanks for any help or experience!

    Wiggling
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    lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Well, guess I'd ask which of these vehicles you are leaning toward emotionally? Which one do you want to see as you walk into your garage every morning?

    The IS is a fine car, but has some dynamic limitations vs. the BMW. Also, the IS250 is more comparable to the 325xi in both price and 0-60 performance. You may find that the BMW exhibits a better-balanced driving experience, but both deliver to their maker's idea of the driving experience.

    IMO, Lexus is searching for the answer... BMW already has the answer :D Since this is an emotional decision, let that half of your brain in on the decision and don't just consider a spec-sheet. The best car for you should come through clearly.

    Also, unless you are of Hobbit proportions, the BMW may offer more "elbow room" than the IS. The new IS has a tight cabin for me, and I'm 6'4"... also true of the GS for me. Well built, but tight! The BMW has a "Teutonic" cabin - as you might expect from German engineers. If you appreciate this interpretation of "luxury", you'll enjoy the BMW. I've been terribly pleased with my 2003 530SP. Can't wait to drive it every day and appreciate it more each time :)
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    wigglingwiggling Member Posts: 4
    That's a good question. I think the BMW. What bothers me is the potentially higher cost of ownership with more electrical issues etc. I think the driving experience (with my limited experience) was better than the Lexus.

    But is that really worth 10K more? I do need to take the Lexus for another drive. The snow stability might become the decisive factor.

    Also, has anyone gotten "comfort access" for the BMW? Is it worth it? It is standard on the Lexus but a special feature on the beamer.

    Wiggling
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    lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    The 325iX will close that $10K gap and offer similar acceleration with superior handling balance!
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    jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    The 325xi has significantly better acceleration than the IS250 AWD as well.
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    equan1equan1 Member Posts: 27
    with references to BMW's 3 series.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2005/12/10/mflex10.- xml&sSheet=/motoring/2005/12/10/ixmot.html
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    mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Where are the references? The only thing I could find would be the back seat comparo. That's it.

    "We like: Fine performance and sharp handling in an attractive bodyshell. Reasonable value when the specification is taken into account.

    We don't like: Golf-fixated marketing, poor rear-seat accommodation and slightly unrefined diesel option."

    link title
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