The Big 3 and the domestic issues that will affect them
I feel by creating a forum such as this, it will give us a place to talk about broad domestic issues that the Big 3 are faced with each and everyday.
I also feel this forum will be addicting to all that love and care about the American Auto Industry as much as I.
I want this forum to be open minded. I don't care if you're pro or against unions. Tell us why ?
I wanna know what's effecting the auto industry, and why they are struggling ?
Is it democrats or republicans that are helping or hurting the auto industry and it's suppliers ?
Are you Pro or Anti NAFTA/CAFTA ?
"I just want a forum that we can debate a wide range of issues. Not only just GM/Delphi, but also about Ford and Chrysler too.
I also don't care if we talk about BIG 3 cars too.
I know personally I will enjoy Edmunds even more. Wait is that possible ???
I also feel this forum will be addicting to all that love and care about the American Auto Industry as much as I.
I want this forum to be open minded. I don't care if you're pro or against unions. Tell us why ?
I wanna know what's effecting the auto industry, and why they are struggling ?
Is it democrats or republicans that are helping or hurting the auto industry and it's suppliers ?
Are you Pro or Anti NAFTA/CAFTA ?
"I just want a forum that we can debate a wide range of issues. Not only just GM/Delphi, but also about Ford and Chrysler too.
I also don't care if we talk about BIG 3 cars too.
I know personally I will enjoy Edmunds even more. Wait is that possible ???
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Comments
It is not only well designed, but is made with premium materials.
The Mercedes 300 ....oops I mean Chrysler 300 is also a good choice.
"No pun intended"
So who in ya'lls oppinion has the best car quality ?
Some of you think the competition of the Asian and European imports have helped improve American car companies quality. I personally believe they have. It just took the Big 3 a while to wake up and smell the coffee. I however believe their needs to be fair trade on both sides. "No more I won't tariff your imports, but it's ok to tariff mine" mentality.
What do ya'll think ?
Would The Big 3 be in such hot water if a Democrat was President ???
Or was this going to happen regardless of politics ???
I personally think a democrat is much better on domestic issues. Especially the Economy. I however feel many of you will disagree, and that's ok. Bush has done a great job for many in the buisness world.
Rocky
What make and model do you think ?
Is the Cadillac STS or XLR line up really "The Standard of the World" ????.....I personally think they could make a case for it. I also think those 2 cars are among best cars money can buy at any price. They both offer extremely high levels of safety, creature features, and quality to be segment leaders. Or is Lincoln going to overtake Cadillac in the very near future ? :shades:
Thanks for the correction
rockylee
Wife says I am wrong :lemon:
"Affect"
Another good read is this article:
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0511/01/C01-367908.htm
Any comments ????? :surprise: Boy what some good material.
I hope all that visit this sight enjoy these articles and thanx-->Rocky
$10 Billion is alot of money. The airline industry got somewhere between $15-30 Billion dollars in Gov't. handouts, right ???.... Not to mention the oil industry. I think it's time for Dubya to help Delphi and the Big 3 out for the short-term. Give em' the money...... Long-term solution: Fix the economy. Do whatever it takes to avoid the Domino/Ripple effect. I know many Americans don't wanna keep bailing big corporations out. We really can't afford it. We are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
Ford is facing a similar crisis. Chrysler is doing ok, but Mercedes isn't. There battles lie ahead in the future.
Rocky
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/09/A09-341807.htm
DELPHI http://www.delphi.com/ and you thought they only made car parts.
I think it will be a great car. Will it be enough to get folks to tour a ford dealership ???
Dodge has the Viper, but they(Chrysler) don't really have a affordable image car.
Neon is dead. I do have the answer for Dodge. It's a nameplate that represents performance. In my opinion this is the greatest car ever built in Dodge history. Do any of you have a clue at this point ????
I know I lost some of you, but I will continue on
Clue #1 it had 4 wheel steering
Clue #2 It also had AWD
Clue #3 It had a Twin Turbo V-6 rated at 320 hp.
Clue #4 it also was a hatchback
Oh I give up, I'm referring to the greatest Chrysler product ever made.(My opinion)
The Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo
I gurantee you this, it would be a bigger hit than the original. How/Why????
Huge Advancements In Turbo Technology.
Dodge bring back the Stealth, make it alot like the original, but modernize it with quality, 420hp TT, and 4-wheel steering with AWD. Also don't forget to add a booming stereo and perhaps a Navigation.
Rocky
Terry.
Carry on!
1. Japanese manipulation of the yen (bad)
2. Chinese currency manipulation (good for parts they make in China, bad when the Chinese start importing cars)
3. Health care costs outrageous increase, with no government subsidy (as opposed to all their foreign competitors whose governments pay for health care) (bad)
4. Unrealistic UAW contracts (Miller at Delphi may be blunt, but that doesn't mean he's wrong) (bad)
Just off the top of my head...
Now for all, I was just bringing up some "jibber jabber" about the automotive industry. topics I think alot of folks would comment on.
If I'm wrong, perhaps some of you could bring up better subjects.
I got a question ? Who makes Fords Hybrid Motor ?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
How of you Ford fans would like to see a 5.0 V-8 return ?????
GM made a return of the 327 in the 5.3 a.k.a. LS-4
I would think a (Modern 5.0) would be great for auto sales at Ford. I heard rumor of one being developed about 8-12 months ago. Did it die ????
Quality, and Fit and Finish have been met. Technology like Voice Recognition with Navigation, AC Seats, Direct Fuel Injection, are only a few of the many technologies that the Big 3 need to compete. Not to mention it wouldn't hurt to build a few more platforms with rear wheel drive.
Rocky
I just don't understand why these cars weren't build with more power. They are designed very well. The new Lincoln is my personal favorite out of that platform.
I hope autosales are good for Ford.
The Fusion could of been a player if they would of gave it a bit more power.
Do ya'll agree ???
The Cadillac CTS will make you forget.......
Wait a minute.....late breaking news from Detroit!
Toyota becomes the #1 Automaker in US Sales (October 1-10) with an 18.2% share, besting Ford 15.6% and GM 14.6%. (Source: detnews) :sick:
Toyota sales up 5% (October 2005 to October 2004)
The Perfect Storm has caused GM in particular, and the US in general to fall from favor. Labor costs, pension costs, health care costs, old-tech dependence, high oil prices, mediocre to poor quality for the past generation, poor marketing, unimaginative designs (save Chrysler), etc.
My problem with the Big 3 is they've basically been making mediocre cars forever, with mediocre to poor quality.
Now the Japanese make high quality, and the Koreans are up to mediocre quality, BEFORE the US responds, with more mediocre vehicles with slightly better quality.
The basic problem is simple and well-baked in:
NOT beating the Japanese in Quality.
NOT beating the Koreans in Value.
NOT beating the Germans in Style.
Americans have power, and.........uh.....incentives! And nowadays, pretty much everybody has power! They have effectively carved out the Automotive Middle Ground, and parked an H3 in it!
As a matter of fact, the Big 3 are playing ketchup (!) in power in key segments like mid-size family sedans and entry-level luxury! Fusion, Malibu, LaCrosse, Zephyr, CTS are all trailing by plenty.
Their track record, style, and personalities certainly won't close any deals!
It would be nice if GM and Ford didn't become backwash, but in the end, they will reap what they've sown. This isn't just about the current market, this mass exodus is payback for the last 30 years of inconsistent, indifferent filler! From Cimarron to Pacer to Fiero to Contour and to today's Aztek and Cateras and Focus, etc. :lemon:
Now they've all but missed the boat on Hybrid tech, where a 4-cylinder Escape Hybrid gets less MPG than a 6-cylinder RX400h that eighs 500 lbs. more, and is faster! :confuse:
This after they passed on Crossovers altogether, save for the Equinox and spinoffs, a very good crossover with the same tired 3.4 OHV we've been saddled with since Jimmy Carter!
And wasted any buzz they had with the 86 Taurus. They used to have a car people liked and bought, what happened? Now Budget and Avis won't even buy it anymore!
Then again, if they treated EVERY car/truck they make like they do the Vette, with that attention to detail and improvement in function, we wouldn't be in this stuff.
This is a long time comin. Time to start from scratch. From Delphi and UAW up.
DrFill
Name me a SUV on the planet that is better than the new GM line-up of
GMT-900's ?????....Ok maybe the Porsche, but it cost's $30-40 give or take more.
I can uderstand your frusteration with the past quality issues. It's going to take years to rebuild those relationships. And many won't go back to the big 3. I guess I can't blame them. Some of the dealership reputations are so bad where I live, customers won't bother test driving a vehicle. :sick:
"DaRock"
THAT'S the Caddy that sells?
This Caddy renaissance shocks me, but hey, good for them.
The mechanicals on the New Tahoe are good an all, but I hear a lot of discontent with plastic bumpers. Continued the milquetoast styling of it's predecessor, and most recent Chevy offerings. A good truck, but certainly not a grand slam. A nice hedged bet.
GM better get onto hybrids, and the the next Silverado/Cheyenne better rock hard! Good luck.
DrFill
I eventually decided I wanted to get a Honda, and found another dealersip reasonably cliose to me. This dealer lied to me over the phone, telling me they had the color and line of Civic I wanted in stock, (It turns out they didn't have any civics in the line OR color I wanted) and when I got there tried to push me into buying an Accord. I didn't buy from them. On my third try with Honda, I found a good dealership and bought from them.
I chose a Civic over the domestic choices primarily for two reasons, and these two reasons are what is wrong with the big3's vehicles. Reliability and Resale.
Reliability: The civic has a proven track record of great reliability. The Focus set records for recalls in its first year. Even of the current Focuses (Focii???) are reliable, I don't trust them because of the line's track record. The Cobalt is too new to have a track record. It may end up being reliable, but the verdict is still out.
Resale: This was the real killer for the domestics. Hondas and Toyotas hold their value much better than the domestics, with Hondas having the best resale of the major automakers. Reliability plays a part here, but the big thing here is fleet sales to rental companies. The big3 depend on fleet sales to get their volume up and utilize their excess manufacturing capacity. The rental companies know the big3 need their business, and are able to demand large discounts, which then lower the resale value of big3 cars when these cars flood the used car marketplace 3-4 years later. Toyota does fleet sales, but they do not depend on them, so they aren't forced to sell their cars at whatever the rental agencies will pay. Honda does almost no fleet sales, and they have the highest resale.
1. High paying CEOs' and executives that do not do a good job. Either they advanced to their high ranking position by being in the company for a long time or they were hired because they know somebody inside. In today's corporate America you can see many CEOs' getting hired receiving hefty pays even when they do not perform. They usually last 2-4 years and they either they quit or they are fired, but hey, they got the money in the bank. I can not believe recently that Delphi's CEO was going to allow raises to top executives so they would not quit their jobs when the company filed for bankruptcy. Apparently that CEO think very highly of them, but then why are they filing for bankruptcy.
2. This is tied to the executives because they are the ones who make the decision on which models they will be developing. I know that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder but most people will agree with me that money has been wasted in marketing and research in butt ugly vehicles. The ones that come to mind are : coupe Buick Riviera (frog eyes), Aztek (lego car). Poor interior designs, it has improved a lot recently since in my opinion they are copying the japanese manufacturers but still have ways to go.
3. Unions. They are necessary but they are abusing the system. They want all type of guarantees and raises when only few of them deserve it . There are too many lazy workers who could care less because they are protected by the UNION.
Being realistic, you can't get rid of unions and they only make concessions when they see any real threat of the company going out of business. As far as executives and CEOs you can't cut their salaries too much because nowadays there are too many companies willing to overpay these people. A fairy tale would be a smart and hard working CEO who will work for mainly incentives and bonuses.
SOLUTION:
The perfect example is NISSAN. Learn from what the Renault CEO Gosh accomplished since he took over Nissan. Not too many engines, he has placed that same V6 engine in almost every vehicle from Nissan to Infinitis'. Better profit margin by using cheap interior materials. More sales by being aggressive in the design department. Cut as many unnecessary expenses as possible. Fire some people if possible because it is not working the way it is going. Does everybody want a Nissan or Infiniti, NO, but they sure sell a lot them these days.
GM, FORD & CHRYSLER can not be making bland looking cars, they are not as reliable nor they have TOYOTA nor HONDA's reputation. Although reliability seems to be improving the breaking point for the big 3 will have to be better desings inside and out. No bench seats, no smallish buttons (Lincoln LS a wanabe Lexus interior), no more expecting to make most of the profits from Trucks because the competition will get rougher with Toyota's new Tundra. Differentiate more a Yukon and a Tahoe, make better seats and if you find one put that seat in as many models and you can. If it is advertised as a sport luxury sedan then do not make it fat (CTS). If you want to copy then do it right. It has been working for the Japanese for many years. Copy what they do and if you can't improve at least do not make it worse.
Easier said that done. I know.
So as you can tell my experience wasn't a good one. The dealership, and the finace company walked away with no punishment from Acura. The people at HFB were not only rude, but were also very mean to my wife and I. "I really was very angry at all of the GM dealerships around here where I live, and baught the Acura on impulse". I even went as far to talk too GM customer service managers. I got the we'll look into line. I said can they refuse to trade for a vehicle I want ? They said yep. So I baught the TL. I did really enjoy the car, but couldn't really see where the car was so much better than a domestic. It however had quite a bit more technology. i.e. voice recognition w/ navi. choice of a 6 speed manuel, DVD Audio, all of the above that GM doesn't offer unless you buy a caddy. I also wasn't spoken to for several months by some of my GM/Delphi family members over it. They thought it was funny I got screwed by them too. :mad:
I am opening up to ya'll, and telling you my experience. I love GM and made the mistake of not buying one in Michigan. I was just so angry at the GM dealerships down here in Tx panhandle and there lack of concern for potential customers. I had them go as far as to not honor my GM employee discount I get from my family, which really sent me over the deep end. GM customer service representatives told me they could refuse to honor it.(a first for me)
I think finally I found a GM dealership I can do buisness with, so I don't have to fly home and drive a new car back.
I think now many of you can see why I've stressed customer service so much for helping GM change things around.
Thanx for listening ->Rocky
P.S. The drafting company wants to settle out of court.
You are correct in saying they need to make cars that aren't so bland
Here's my WISH LIST I'd like the Big 3 to make on more models, so they can compete better with the Asians and Europeans.
#1 Voice Recognition System "The VRS from the Acura TL is awesome. It's in a car that is priced in the mid $30K range. It has up to 300 commands The Acura MDX and RL has up to 600 commands. It improves safety greatly, because drivers don't have to take their eyes off the road to do something as simple as adjusting the climate control, XM, CD player track and volume etc, calling their spouse via bluetooth. Just simply say the command via pushing a button on the steering wheel, and the function is done. THAT SIMPLE. Caddy STS has a great system.
#2 Air Conditioned Seats) to go along with heated. I find are hot Tx Panhandle summers where the temperature rarely dips below 90 too hot for leather. If a customer has AC seats this is greatly appreciated because he won't drip sweat down his/hers back while driving. Some seats like in the Caddy DTS have a Massage function also bulit in. Mercedes has "bladders" that inflate during spirited driving in the front seats. Many cars also have reclining rear seats too.
#3 Cooled cup holders (like on the Escalade ESV), cooled glove box (like in Saab)
and a ice chest (like in the Lexus LS400) are all great features.
#4 High End multi-channel DVD Audio Surround Sound that play various formats.
To name a few that feature this technology are the Caddy STS, Acura TL and RL,
Infiniti M45, Many Lexus cars and SUV's. etc etc. DVD surround sound is the wave of the future, until Blu-Ray comes on-line. Us Audiophiles demand this.
#5 Swivel headlamps, that turn the front headlamps when going into a corner so the driver can see what's ahead of him/her. It's too bad the Night Vision didn't become standard on premium models. It was awesome to drive with this feature, because a driver could see deer or pedestrians at night through this thermal imaging device.
#6 More airbags i.e. knee airbags, pre collision systems, and stability type systems. All-Wheel Drive and 4 Wheel Steering will make driving alot more safer.
#7 Direct Fuel Injection Systems. More Variable Valve Timing offerings in engines,
Hybrid offerings, Ethanol fuel source capability. 6-8 speed automatics, and more manuel tranny offerings on sportier models.
#8 Heads Up Display is a great safety feature that allows drivers to see there speed and many other car functions in the Windshield. Radar Adaptive Cruise Control another good safety feature.
#9 Push button start, get rid of the key and keep the little remote fob in your pocket, briefcase, purse. I'd also like to see XM Navi-traffic on more models in the future.
#10 Front and Rear Cameras that allow drivers to see in fron of them and behind them when backing or pulling up. rainsense automatic wipers, heated windshield washer fluid, defrosting side windows, Power Sunshades for front and rear and side windows that the tint can be adjusted.
I know I've probably left out many more "Technologies" that can (aid) in the driving expierence, not to mention some are safety features. I'd like the Big 3 automobiles to be more "Asian like" so they won't just be considered good quality vehicles only.
If ya'll can think of any more, please feel free to add them to the list. I'd like to see what I forgot too add, and what ya'll would like in your future car,truck,suv, etc.
I thought this would be a great topic of disscussion !
Thanks->Rocky
They all said that people especially in Michigan are scared that they might lose their jobs. I feel this is not just a Michigan issue, but also a national issue of WHY Big 3 cars aren't selling also. :sick:
It might even be the best engine made in the world today.
It was based off the LT-4 from the Corvette ZR-1.
"The LT-4 was by far the greatest engine ever made."
Saying it was merely BULLETPROOF would be a insult.
It could handle 185+ mph all day long and only requires (no maintanence.) :P Caddy took what they learned from the German engineered Mercruiser
"no gasket" LT-4 and simplified it into NORTHSTAR form.
LT-4 however remains "KING OF THE HILL" :shades:
Mr. Shelby said that the NorthStar V-8 was the best engineered engine in the world, and is why he used it in his late model Shelby cars.
Now he has made the unfortunate mistake of going back to Ford.
:P
Do any of you think we will see a scaled down versions of these engines put into cars over here ???
I personally think "the diesel" is becoming more accepted by the American Public.
fintail and other canadians, are diesel engines popular in Canada ???.....Just curious, do you guys have a strong "diesel car" market like they do in Europe ???
:confuse:
Rocky
I have always looked at the strength of the economy, by looking at how strong automobile sales are in this country. Well unfortunatly alot of Americans are not spending money. They have cut out excess like nice vacations, getting the latest electronics, and as you can see buying new cars. The housing market has tanked and the bubble has recieved a needle.
I am hoping for a miracle. I am really scared about the future of the Big 3 and other American buisness. I currently don't see anything in the works that could spring us into a strong recovery. Do any of you ????
I also feel we will see a big drop in christmas sales this year too.
I guess many folks are scared about their jobs in this country and are being conservative with there money. I think they have a right to be nervous about the future. If sales continue this way, the Big 3 will be forced to lay-off and close plants. That basically means hundreds of thousands of good folks standing in the unemployment line. All those supppiers also would have to lay-off if this trend keeps up. I am personally praying this isn't the first domino falling that's getting ready to hit many more. :sick:
I really do hope we can pull out of this folks, because I don't want my country to have to go through a big reccession again like we had in the 80's
Lets keep are fingers crossed and a miracle happens
Rocky
You got to also look at the market. Autosales are very slow right now.
(read the above article from DetNews) What are autoworkers going to do, if they don't have work ???.... They are of course going to naturally take extended breaks etc. Bottom Line: Cars aren't selling right now, and that's a hard fact to swallow. Some divisions are doing slightly better than others. My Delphi employee father has taken voluntary lay-off 3 or 4 times this year already for 1-3 weeks at a time, because it's been so slow. He builds Fuel Injectors, and when cars aren't selling there is no need to keep building excessive Fuel Injectors. That would defeat the "lean manufactoring" concept of "just in time" delivery to the customer.
I wished I had answers, but GM can't keep giving huge rebates and employee pricing forever. They have lowered many MSRP's with the "Total Value Promise"
Ford and Chrysler have tried a different strategy. I wish them all luck. I hope the upcoming months get better for em'
Rocky
What is it now? 14 straight quarters of economic growth? Third quarter of 2005 was at a 3.8% annual rate.
Auto sales are NOT the "economy".
I guess I don't get the gloom and doom :confuse: