Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave

rockfish1

It sounds like Buick is creating their own problems by making the Enclave too quiet. Now you can hear sounds that would normally be obscured by road noises.

zman3

That was actually one of my fears before buying. I was afraid every little rattle and squeak was going to be more noticeable. So far it is rock solid.

62vetteefp

Part of Buick's "quiettuning" is engineering out any possible squeaks and rattles.

beach15

Actually, THAT is part of GM design in general, and the Buick Quiet-tuning is to back that up, but also take road, wind, and drivetrain noise to class leading levels.

All the Lambdas are equally as "solid" and noise free, but the Enclave, for instance, has very noticeably less road, wind, and engine noise compared to the already very quiet Acadia and Outlook.

bobw3

What did you get for your '05 Terraza you traded in?

kcorey

It was leased (3 years, 36,000 miles) and the lease was up in January. I had 35,000 miles on it, so with the 2 months "pull-ahead", it made sense to get rid of it now...but it was a great car.

leaddawg

Just took delivery of a brand new, fully loaded, Cocoa Metallic, AWD CXL Enclave. First American made vehicle I have purchased in my life of 45 years. Have owned the following SUVs: Isuzu Trooper, Toyota Land Cruiser, Acura MDX, Honda Element, Lexus LX470 and Mercedes GL 450 plus numerous high quality import sedans (Mercedes E420, Infiniti J35 and Q45, Lexus LS 400, Lexus SC430 and Lexus LS430). Still have the Mercedes GL (wife's car), but our short list for a new SUV included the new Lexus LX 570(due out late this year), the Range Rover Sport(Supercharged), and a 2nd Mercedes GL.

The Buick Enclave caught my eye in some articles from the 3 auto Magazines I get monthly (Car & Driver, Automobile, Motor Trend). After reading numerous positive consumer reviews I visted the Buick dealer and checked out the Enclave. I must admit, having never owned an American brand vehicle, this is a nicely designed and appointed SUV. It looks great from the front and sides and has one of the nicest looking rear ends of any SUV made. The interior is very well appointed. For $45,000 it's by far one of the best values for the look, size, and amenities this car delivers. I'm please to see there's finally a GM product that fits the look, design, quality and value I expect in an automobile.

Havent' had it long, but the Enclave looks, drives and feels better behind the wheel than I even expected. I'm very pleased with the decision to purchase the Enclave. I'll post later with some thoughts on the ownership experience.

kenym

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/02/sema-preview-buick-enclave-urban-ceo-edition/-

lwolf99

Hello all. I am looking for a little help....

I have a fully loaded, Cocoa Metallic, AWD CXL Enclave that I purchased at the end of June. And so far, I am loving it.

I noticed something the other day. When I display the NAV screen, there are many dots displayed over my typical driving paths. I live about 1.5 miles from my office. There are dozens of tiny little dots displayed between those two locations. Then there are more dots, although fewer and further between, around the 3-4 mile area around my town - the typical paths of travel that I take to church, school, the store, restaurants, etc.

It almost seems like it is leaving some sort of "crumb trail", in case I got lost or something.

It is not a bad thing, I was just a little confused as to what caused a "dot" or "crimb" to appear, and if/when they will ever go away. I looked through the manual, and did not see anything.

Does anyone have any explaination?

JBaumgart

I am not familiar with your particular NAV, but I would bet there is some setting to turn this off. I will use it sometimes in my portable unit when fishing to return back to where I launched the boat on a big lake, etc. Look in the manual for "tracks" or "tracback" and it should show you how to disable this feature.

bobelew

I could be wrong, but it sounds like your nav unit is leaving a breadcrumb trail. This is usually caused when the roads you are driving on are not recognized by the by the DVD in your system. Either your DVD is outdated or the signal is somehow getting scrambled and it is showing you as being on an unrecognized road. Does your system show the roads you are currently traveling when this is happeing or are the breadcrumbs alongside the recognized road (left or right). The only time I had that happen to me was up in Canada which at the time was outside the parameters of that DVD(2003 edition). Use the nav system on some of your of your regular routes and see if it does the same thing. If it does, your system needs to be updated.
Good luck!

lwolf99

The "dots" are on my usual path of travel between home, work and play. There are all main roads. The road names are displayed on the screen.

The DVD came with my Enclave, which I purchased in June.

robr2

It's probably a bread crumb trail. What does the Owner's Manual say? You have checked the manual havn't you??

dmathews3

Have you tried ejecting the DVD and after a minute or so putting it back in to reboot the system. Those bread crumbs as they are being refered to in my opinion are not normal. I have a 07 STS with Nav and it doesn't have that feature so I doubt yours does either. I think something is wrong and may need to be taken to the dealer. Also check the DVD to make sure there aren't any scraches, fingerprints or anything else on it.

tsu670

This is directed mainly to owners of new 2008 Lambdas.

Are you having transmission shift issues like owners of 2007 models had? In other words, are the problems fixed?

A Saturn salesman told me they were fixed, and that the required computer program change had been applied to all the '07s.

zman3

I'd say it is fixed. There is a TSB that addresses 07 models and 08 builds before August that adjusts the shift patterns of the transmission. I am quite happy with our Enclave now. It is still fairly heavy for the V-6 engine, but that is the price we pay for good mileage.

dketcham

We just completed a 1900+ mile trip from Minneapolis to Phoenix via Denver in our '07 Acadia. It had 2500 miles on it when we started the trip. What a great ride! Just before we left, the dealer completed a recall to reprogram the transmission. Shifting seemed smoother and less frequent, although it still downshifted frequently when going through the mountains. We were fully loaded and mileage averaged about 20 mpg; low of 16 mpg against a strong headwind in Colorado versus a high of 24 mpg coming down from the high country to the Phoenix area. Overall we were very satisfied with this trip. Very comfortable, extremely quiet, and all the room we needed. This is a great car compared to our '02 Trailblazer. No little "glitches" yet, so I have nothing to complain about.

allmet33

Funny you ask that. When I saw the issues with the transmission here in the forum, I called my dealer to ask if they could "flash" our transmission. He was quick to tell me that it wasn't for all Outlooks and we needed to provide him with a VIN #. Well...in the mail the other day, we received a notice from Saturn about taking our Outlook in to get the transmission "flashed" for the upgraded programming. Hopefully...we'll notice a difference.

dmathews3

let us know if it helps. Over on the Camry forum they have been crying for all of 07 about theirs and how Toyota won't do anything about it. Would be nice to rub it in their noses. American Made Rules. :shades:

Karen_S

A reporter seeks to talk with owners and serious shoppers of the 2007 or 2008 Saturn Outlook who are also parents. If you are interested in commenting on your experience, please reply to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, November 15, 2007 and include your city and state of residence as well as the age of your child/ren.

provenceman

it's part fo the GOP NAV system and they are called way points. The GPS/NAV system allows you to set these to use basically asd you described them as crumbs so that you can find your way back to your starting point. You should be able to turn this function off in the menu system of the NAV unit.

Kirstie_H

A reporter seeks to talk with intended owners of the 2007 or 2008 GMC Acadia who are also parents. If you are interested in commenting on your experience, please reply to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, November 15, 2007 and include your city and state of residence as well as the age of your child/ren.

Thanks for your consideration,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds Inc.

nvbanker

I have an 06 Explorer which has the new 6 speed transmission in it, and we've had trouble with it. It's been reprogrammed several times, gets better each time, then eventually degrades into poor shifting, slamming & other irregularities. Was seriously considering an Acadia or Outlook to replace it - but it sounds like I would be getting into the same mess. I guess it's a 4-Runner for me after all.....

bobfish

Had the same situation happen to me a month ago.I have had the reflash done to the transmission and in the letter I received from GM about the recall it stated it would take the transmission a few hundred miles to ajust to the new program.Five hundred miles later and transmission shifts are little or no better than before.I also own a 2006 Corvette with a six speed automatic transmission and that shifts great.I realize that is a different transmission but why can`t GM solve the shift problem with this transmission? I love everything else about the Acadia but if they do not do anything to solve the transmission issue it could be its downfall.

62vetteefp

If you are referring to the shift lag on the Lamdas, supposedly that has been programmed out now and the press that have driven it are happy. We have an Acadia now (not updated yet) and while it is felt sometimes it sure is not that bad and happens infrequently. Updates are available at the dealerships and new cars built in the last few months have the fix.

I will let you know. I am getting my Enclave tonight!!!!

donl1

I had my transmission in my 07' flashed about 3 months ago and it significantly improved the shifting. Wasn't expecting much but I'm pleasantly surprised. Unfortunately no change in the gas mileage.

62vetteefp

What is your mpg? I hope to get about 16, primarily city driving.

Side note, our Enclave is noticably quieter than our Acadia.

allmet33

My Outlook has shown the same results after tranny flashing. Better shifting and throttle response at the gas pedal, but no difference in fuel economy. With a mix of highway and city driving...the FE is usually about 15-17 mpg. Straight highway driving (usually cruising at about 75-ish)...the FE rings in at about 20-21.

I would think the Enclave would be the quietest of all the Lambdas since they put more sound deadening throughout the entire vehicle, after all...it is the "luxury" entry of the 3 (soon to be 4) Lambdas. Question is, how much of a difference is there between the Acadia and the Outlook and will there be any difference with the Chevy version?

62vetteefp

I would doubt there is any difference between the 3 lesser versions. Buick has both marketed and implemented "QuietTuning" enhancements and charge for it. Perhaps Chevy would delete some features from the Acadia/Outlook but I doubt it.

allmet33

I kinda figured that would be the case, but does GM really need 4 Lamdas running around???

62vetteefp

NO, they do not. Issue is that when the Lamdas were started 6 years ago there was no issue of gas prices. Chevy was going to continue with a minivan and a real truck based mid sized SUV. At the dealership level it was Buicks and then Pontiac/GMC's and Saturns and Chevrolets. So they put a Lamda at the three dealerships and let Chevy continue with the Minivan and real SUV. That was the plan 7 years ago.

Times have changed. Buick is folding into Buick/GMC/Pontiac dealers. Gas prices are reducing truck based SUV's sales and therefore GM killed the next mid sized SUV Trailblazer replacement. Crossovers are taking huge amounts of market share (16%) and going up. The minivan segment is plummeting (down 20% last year) and therefore GM killed their uncompetitive minivan rather than spend the invdestment $'s.

All of a sudden Chevrolet, the volume marque, does not have a model in the new hot new large sized crossover. They do not have a minivan. They do not have a midsized SUV. GM needs to get something there if they want to sell more volume. So Chevy will be getting one.

Now who should drop their crossover? Buick? Not with the hit the Enclave has been and not if they are really going to stay around. You have to be in the SUV/CUV market if you want to be a volume player and if they really want to have Buick compete against Lexus. GMC? Maybe but they are the ones selling all the volume now and GMC is traditionally the profit center for GM. Lots of people will not buy a Chevy but will buy the more premium GMC. Of course the dealers have two models in the same showroom (Enclave/Acadia) so it is very possible the Acadia will phase out as the Chevy Traverse builds up volume. Saturn? If Saturn wants to be a real marque they really also need the CUV. However their sales better pickup or they may lose the Outlook.

allmet33

No...you gotta keep the Enclave around, the domectic CUV segment needs something to compete with the Lexus, Bimmer, Acura and Benz offerings in that segment.

When it comes to sales of the SUV's, the American public really looks at GMC and Chevy, so I can see the Acadia and Traverse being the other two Lambdas that stay on board. As much as I love my Outlook, I do see the problems Saturn can face. The only thing that can help them is dropping the Relay mini-van which would have folks looking at the Outlook, but I don't think sales would jump that much. So maybe the Outlook would end up being phased out and they'll just focus on the Vue.

62vetteefp

So maybe the Outlook would end up being phased out and they'll just focus on the Vue. I thought the Relay was already gone but it will be soon if not.

Guess GM could keep Saturn as a smaller vehicle division and if the Outlook does not pick up sales kill it when the Chevy comes in. Easy to say 4 is too many but then hard to pick which one dies. GM is still a company with divisions which can be both an advantage and a disadvantage. GM has the largest US sales by far so there having 4 significant divisions is not a bad thing. Chevy, Cadillac, Pontiac/Buick/GMC and Saturn. Hummer and Saab are boutique brands

donl1

My Acadia is an 07' AWD SLT. 16K and mileage is 19 in the winter with mostly highway driving and 20 to 21 in the summer. The transmission is a lot easier to live with since the flash. Only a 1000 miles since the flash so maybe the warm weather this summer will see and increase in MPG...one can always hope.

dattales

I have an 07 Sat. Outlook which I purchased in May. My only disappointment is the fuel mileage. Salesperson did tell us we would get 28 mpg easily, which was a major consideration at time of purchase. Of course, it gets nowhere close to that. Then they told me it would improve after 10,000 miles. I have 16,000 and still not any better. If I could find anything else about this vehicle that I didn't like, I would trade it tomorrow, but it has great features that I love. Just wish gas wasn't $3.00 or so a gallon!!!!!! I have not done the update on the transmission. I am getting 20mpg, occasionally 21. Did it help your mpg?

62vetteefp

28 mpg easily??? Come on. This is a huge SUV not a mid sized sedan.

Update would not effect mpg except perhaps the wrong way. Makes the vehicle downshift more easily.

MPG should improve over time though as everything breaks in. Again I will be thrilled if I get close to 20 mpg on my Enclave. The 2008 epa list it at 16/24 so "easily 28" is an impossibility.

nvbanker

Not that they care what I think, but GM has too many divisions that dilute their strength across too many duplicated lines. For example, they only really need 2 Lambda cars, certainly not 4. The Acadia is clearly the one that should go away, GMC is Professional Grade TRUCKS, not crossovers. If Chevy is going to get one now, it's a duplicate of the Saturn market, whatever that is. Saturn has long since lost their mission and their way, and nobody knows what they are now. Wierd, I guess. SATURN "We're wierd!"

Several attempts have been made to define markets for the GM brands, but none of them work, or stick, or both because they have dealers whine that they are being cheated! If I were a Saturn dealer today, I'd be suing somebody for taking away my cars! Although, the Aura and roadster are nice, the Vue is better, and the Outlook is a great looking Chevy, Saturn has been in pergatory for years... It's hard to understand how such ugly cars can actually be made.

Anyway, YMMV, but IMO, the Enclave and the Outlook should be all they need. Give the Outlook to Chevy if necessary, it's not selling as a Saturn anyway.

Somebody should blow all the planets up. Mercury, Saturn........

chuckhoy

There are, simply, not enough Saturn dealers to justify getting rid of the Acadia. If anything Saturn should dump all SUVs and crossovers or anything that is not a car. The original Saturn mission was to sell small to mid-sized cars that were unique to Saturn. I also miss the plastic exteriors. It was darn near impossible to dent them.

founder

The one thing that always bothered me about GM is that all the same cars but with a different name was at each of their divisions. Today it doesn't make since considering the very crowded market. I feel that GM just should've done 3 versions from the start. Chevy, GMC, and Caddy should've been the choices. GM got it right with the GMC, but Saturn and Buick?? Both of those divisions doesn't hold the public interest to justify giving them these great crossovers. Saturn was supposed to be an economy/small car division for GM, and Buick should've been phased out. I do not know what GM was thinking for not making a Caddy version. They could've redesigned the SRX or Just made the Enclave the Caddy version. The Enclave is nice no doubt that Buick badge I think will hinder sales, but that's my opinion. The Enclave would be seeling much more if it was a Caddy.

founder

The jury is still out on GM badging the Enclave as a Buick, think it should been a Caddy to get more interest. At any rate considering this is the heaviest of the 3 crossovers and to compete better and be a real class leader i think a V8 in the Buick at least should've been an option. I drove the Encalve and while I like(still having a hard time getting past the Buick name) it the V6 is just mediocre to me. The V6 gas miliage is below average to point where i would shell out the extra bucks for a V8 and get more power. I remember reading before the Enclave came out that a V8 was going to be an option. What happened? I would to buy this SUV, but the mediocre power and gas milage is my biggest stopping point. I can't wait 2 or 3 years down the line if the rumored V8 is supposed to come along. GM lost a sale, at least for 5 years from me. I'm looking to get a SUV now.

kcorey

I just don't understand all the hoopla about the Enclave being a V8 and you wanting more "power". I've had my Enclave with 7 adults and luggage in the rear, and have never felt that the car was under-powered. If I wanted a car for get-up-and-go, I would have bought a Corvette or maybe the big Caddy SUV. After all, the Navigator is a V8, and it's just a big tub...lousy from the word go! Just my opinion.

nvbanker

Yes - let's remember the age and experience of Buick drivers, does not lend to aggressive driving or sudden acceleration! Most Buick drivers would be more than satisfied with the 6. However, a nice little turbo or super on that 6 would give you plenty of performance for those who don't KNOW they're in a Buick, without the weight of the V-8. And the economy would be better. If the GW folks get their way, we'll be grateful to have anything as powerful as that Buick pretty quickly. :surprise:

allmet33

Would have been hard to market two CUV's under the Caddy name. They already have the SRX.

jnt

The GM trio CUVs are quite big and therefore heavy vehicles. They are tipping the scale about 5,000 lbs on average. Gasoline powered vehicles with the same weight are lucky to get 22 MPG on highway. Note that the new Hyundai Santa Fe with a "mere" 4200 lbs could not muster more than 23MPG on hwy in real life. My old 4000 lb GM minivan could only get 23 MPG on hwy, BTW. Even if one compares the Outlook with the older generation Tahoe (5,000 lbs), the Outlook is at least 2-3 MPG better either modes (city or hwy).

GM could get 1-2 MPG better on the Outlook if they reduce about 500 lbs of vehicle mass. Or they could get closer to 30 MPG on hwy if they have small turbo diesel option for this vehicle. Diesel, on the average could give 30% better fuel efficiency.

jt

nvbanker

Seems to me the Triplets (Outcadiaclave) though very nicely designed, are a little behind the curve on technology. Reports here are they are underpowered, yet have lousy mileage too...... Some improvements, though that's not usually GM's strength, are called for.

62vetteefp

Wonder what technology they are missing? All the actual owners in this forum seem to love them.

Do not know what the expected mpg is but we are very happy getting almost 20 with about 50% city driving. Also the engine has more than enough power for driving normally. Never towed anything so cannot attest to that.

kcorey

As a satisfied owner of an Enclave, I must take issue with your statement. I get about 18 MPG in local New York City driving, and about 26 - 27 MPG on the highway. True, I don't drive at 70 to 75 on the highway (I try to keep it under 65, 55 on city highways), but then again, I don't drive along yapping on a cell phone either. And in the city, I don't take off at every light like I'm at the Indianapolis 500 either. Just drive sensibly...it really helps the MPG.

nvbanker

Hey, I'm just going by what I read here. Personally, I like them very much, though the Enclave the least of the three. I think they are the best of the class out there, possibly challenged by the CX-9, but the Triplets are larger. Tech missing is Bluetooth (and OnStar isn't the same, sorry). How many speeds does the gearbox have? Does the motor have coil - on- plug or wires? GM makes old technology work very well, and if you don't know, you will never guess that, so it's not a big deal for me.

zman3

I didn't quite follow if these were rhetorical questions or not but it is a 6 speed tranny and the engine has coil on plug and not wires.

62vetteefp

Hey, I'm just going by what I read here.

As a real owner of both the Enclave and Acadia they are wonderful replacements for my Envoy. Better in every way I care about. Bluetooth? Guess I have not seen a need for it yet. Most likely because my phone does not have it!!! I just plug in the little ear piece thingy and drive away. Problem with the Enclave it is so nice I hate to carry the stuff in it that I carry in my Envoy.

If I really used my vehicle for work the bluetooth would come in very handy. Hopefully GM will change their strategy and put them in their vehicles. But certainly not a reason for not buying one and the public seems to agree.