Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave

nvbanker

But certainly not a reason for not buying one and the public seems to agree.

Well, I guess the public that doesn't own a phone with bluetooth sees no reason, but it IS EXACTLY why I have a Lexus rather than a Cadillac at this time. I'm glad the transmission is a 6 speed and coil on plug has finally found its way into the GM engineering world. I do like them, I repeat.

smelltest

Hi,

Does anyone have any pictures of the OEM trailer hitch package for the outlook they can share?

I want to be able to connect one of those bike racks that inserts into the hitch assembly.

Anyone know if the assembly included with the outlook or is that part of the trailering package? For my part, really don't plan using the hitch for anything else.

62vetteefp

The trailer receiver only comes with the trailer package. Nice feature is that there is a built in removable cover if you are not using the hitch taht is part of the fascia and there is no view of the hitch.

bike rack works great but you need to take it off to open the hatch unless you use an extension on the rack. but then it sticks out quite aways.

albook

If you're saying the Buick can't compete with higher class, that's totally off. There is a forum full of people who traded in X5s and RX's for one, or picked one over Range Rovers and LX570s. Many who had never driven a GM vehicle before yet were used to drving Europe's best. These triplets are worthy of praise- GM did do a good job.

I think the only aspect of technology GM's behind in is bluetooth. And GM will crack and offer that soon.If that was the only reaon you bought your Lexus over a Cadillac, you must have had a strict criteria. What Lexus and which Caddy, by the way?

beach15

They're NOT underpowered and not lacking in technology...basically just Bluetooth.

For 2009, Bluetooth will be there (optional/standard depending on Lambda model trim lelvel), as well as XM live traffic, cooled seats in addition to heat (again, optional), and also an interior design change to incorporate the new "integrated" center stacks. Basically, compared to now with one pod and separate radio & HVAC units, the center stack will be all one flowing piece that's not broken up. This is a design change going across GM, and will be changed in several vehicles for '09.

The other very notable change is ALL 2009 Lambda vehicles will have the Direct Injection 3.6L that started life this year as the upgrade CTS and STS engine. It makes more power but also puts out less emissions and can be more efficient, so in it comes. Should be an interesting change, and we'll know facts & figures on it in the Lambdas when the new Chevrolet Traverse (the vehicle were all the 2009 details known have come from...because GM already put it on the DealerWorld system), is shown shortly.

62vetteefp

Basically, compared to now with one pod and separate radio & HVAC units, the center stack will be all one flowing piece that's not broken up. This is a design change going across GM, and will be changed in several vehicles for '09.

How is this in relation to the black tie?

No '09's in dealerworld. Must have taken it out?

natalulu

I'm eliminating Toyota Highlander purchase inquiry after driving the Enclave but remain concerned about the mileage. My '05 Honda Pilot gussles gas to the tune of 14mpg in town. Pilot is only rated for 15 (and truthfully it is consistent @ 14.5 for 3 years running) so if 18 is reasonable, I could live with that. I'm reading reviews on the Enclave of 16-18mpg around city driving (90% of my driving) to a guy in Pittsburgh saying around 10 (hilly) which is quite a big difference.
I do have a steep grade for about 1/2 mile 2-3times a day to get out of the valley I'm in - and am concerned that combined with traffic/lights I'm going to be buying another gas hog. Don't know that the downhill drive back compensates for the effort of the uphill on the mpg :-) Feedback from owners (in hilly areas) ?

zman3

I live in relatively flat Minneapolis, but it is cold, and I think that affects mileage. We only average 13-14 MPG in the winter in typical suburban driving with an AWD Enclave. I think 16-18 would be fortunate for an AWD Enclave, based on my experience. FWD I have no idea.

62vetteefp

If the Pilot is rated for 15 (where did you get this?) and you get 14.5 that to me means that you will most likely get at least what the '08 Enclave is rated for. And that is 16.

I seenow that the '05 was rated for 17, you get 14.5. Therefore that hill is killing your mileage but that kinda split is not unusual for the old epa ratings.

Current Pilot gets 16 epa city so you are still behind on that one. So my guess would be you get 15 or so city with the Enclave. I know we are doing about 16 city or so but that is flat land. This is a FWD.

chuckhoy

I think the effect of the hill will be pretty negligible over the long haul. I have a rather large and steep hill on my way to work too. But, because here are no stoplights or stop signs anywhere near it the mileage evens out. My Outlook has a nifty transmission feature that saves gas. When I am in a prolonged down slope of a hill and I am gaining speed the transmission shifts into a semi-neutral setting. The RPMs go down to slightly below 1000 and stay there until I either hit the gas or the brakes. It also seems to pick up a lot of speed this way too. It allows me to coast a lot.

62vetteefp

I think the effect of the hill will be pretty negligible over the long haul

and most likely what goes up must go down the hill on the way home!!

natalulu

Help me here ! Is there any consensus on what the Enclave actually gets for mileage?

It's a pretty expensive car to pay $3+ /gallon @ 14mpg. May as well keep the gas sucking noisy Honda until the Abandon Vehicle light comes on. My husband sure would be happy about saving that money over the style and panache of the Enclave.

tidester

Have a look at the numbers posted in Buick Enclave Real World MPG.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

62vetteefp

How can there be a concensus??? Everybody drives differently on different roads in different ambient conditions. And the vehicles themselves are different. Some are brand new and not broken in and some have 50k and are really getting good mileage and some have 200k and are blowing smoke.

That is why the EPA came up with standardized testing. The only way to get a good handle on what can be expected from a car is to compare what you get on your current vehicle relative to the epa numbers and then take the delta from your car/experience and apply it to the epa of the car you are interested in. However be sure to use either the pre 08 epa numbers or the '08 numbers.

That is the only way. Other than to borrow the car and drive it yourself for aweek.

natalulu

So cars get better mileage once they are 'broken in'. That's good info. I like the borrow the car - might actually rent one for a week and see ! Thanks !

62vetteefp

Parts like pistons/rings/bearings/cylinder walls are made to tight tolerances and therefore tight fits. So parts have a hard time moving relative to each other. Over time parts get "broken in" and move easier/slippier and therefore the engine has less friction and runs easier and gets better mileage.

allison5

I can not decided what SUV to get!!!!! i usually just make my decision up and go. I thought I was turning in my 04 Yukon in for an Acadia UNTIL I stumbled and sat in the Enclave. This vehicle is fantastic!!! I am just wondering what people think of Acadia vs Enclave as far as everything. I know Enclave is bigger, roomier and drives quieter but is it THT much better than the Acadia. I also was looking at MDX but I think too small - i have 3 kids 13 and under and 1 90 lb dog that goes with us to beach and mountains - probably a dozen times a year.

golfer16

Currently have an Enclave. LOVE IT. I compared the Acadia to the Enclave. NO COMPARISON. Much more luxury, smoother ride and much quieter. I am a little concerned with mileage as on now but only have 3000 miles. Getting about 19 in town and 21.5 on road. Hope this helps you.

mchappell

Bigger and roomier? Are you sure you were in an Acadia? Other than some minor size difference in the cargo area, the interior and exterior dimensions are darn near close to identical.

62vetteefp

Enclave andAcadia are the same size or very close to it.

Enclave is noticably quieter than the Acadia. We drove the Acadia for 3 months and then drove the Enclave. Quieter.

Get the Enclave over MDX. Seems like much more room in the Enclave. Will the 3 kids sit in the 2nd row together? I guess the dog can sit in the 3rd row with the 13 year old!

62vetteefp

Getting about 19 in town

That is wonderful MPG for this big of a vehicle!!! wow. Rendezvous, which is much smaller is getting 16.3 in true city driving and it is so much smaller.

zman3

That's what I was going to say. I would be ecstatic with 19 MPG around town in my AWD Enclave. We get 15 MPG, maybe 16 MPG in town. I think it's only rated for 16 MPG or 17 MPG in the city IIRC.

allmet33

Maybe your perception of bigger and roomier was jaded by the luxury feel of the Enclave. Both vehicles are almost identicle with the Enclave actually losing a few inches in interior space due to the extra "padding" the luxury version gets to make it feel softer and ride quieter than it's other two siblings.

If you're looking to tote 3 kids and a 90 lb. dog...don't expect much luggage room. I have an Outlook with 3 kids (13, 11 and 6 mos). With the car seat taking up one captain's chair, a child in the other and one in the back seat...you might be able to get a few suitcases in the back with one side of the 3rd row folded down, but that's about it. You will definitely need to use the roof rack or maybe some sort of cargo carrier that attaches to the tow hitch (if not a small trailer).

allison5

Thanks for the posts. I am going to be making a decision probably this weekend on which car to get. At this point I am looking closer to an Acadia. Isn't the Enclave a fair amount more money than the Acadia? I am comparing the SLT1 Acadia vs Enclave CXL no nav but other things such as entertainment center.

dbuelke

My wife and I test drove both 2008 models today. I agree the Enclave is a little quieter, but we didn't think it was that much more. It has a luxurious feel and ambiance alright, but neither of us liked the "woody" appointments on the dash and interior door trim. Apparently that is standard in all models. Maybe if we were "Woody" aficionados it would be appealing, but it seemed overdone or misplaced in this car. AND we hated the front end of the car. It appears glitzy with too much chrome and decor, especially trying to squeeze the signature Buick ports onto the short fenders of an SUV, and the grill has a remarkable similarity to a 52 Nash sedan! http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/fifty/ncca52.html

Guess everybody has their own tastes, that's why they make so many different cars!!

zman3

I have stated this before but I hate how GM has to have the same vehicle rebadged three or four times for the various product lines. But on the Lambda's I think they have done an outstanding job of differentiating the vehicles. People have very strong opinions on the various models and I think that is a good thing.

draber

The IIHS completed its rating of 2008 model vehicles. The Outlook, Acadia, and Enclave all were left off of the list of safest SUVs. The Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander made the list. Why would anyone buy a family car that was not on the safest car list? The head restraints on the Outlook, Arcadia, and Enclave are sub par. You can measure it for yourself using IIHS safety standard. The head restraints in the back seats are not adjustable.

Yes, they are nice looking cars, but I could not deal with the aftermath of a rear end crash on my family knowing that I had the chance to buy a safer car for the same amount of money.

natalulu

So I guess you take no stock in NHSTA ratings of 5 star? What did the enclave rate with IIHS ? 4 star? . It almost sounds as though don't want other people to buy the car, not like you wish to share helpful information. By the way, in an accident - no car is safe.

jay_24

Can you post a link to the tests? I saw the list of top picks didn't include the Outlook, Arcadia, and Enclave, but I also didn't see that they were even tested.

zman3

I searched the iihs webpage and I did not see any of the Lambda's available in the drop-down menus, telling me that they have not been tested yet. That's my guess at least.

62vetteefp

If you're looking to tote 3 kids and a 90 lb. dog...don't expect much luggage room. I have an Outlook with 3 kids (13, 11 and 6 mos). With the car seat taking up one captain's chair, a child in the other and one in the back seat...you might be able to get a few suitcases in the back with one side of the 3rd row folded down, but that's about it.

Very true but there are few other vehicles out there that can do better for carrying capacity. Perhaps the Suburban, and the minivans. The Lamdas are as big as it gets.

kcorey

They're not on the approved list because they haven't been tested yet. See www.iihs.org and scroll to "results".

62vetteefp

How right you are, however...not everyone is wild about a vehicle as large as the Suburban.

With the Lambdas,

Of course not. That is why there is a huge selection of vehicles available from everyone. The Lamda is the perfect vehicle for us. It replaces my mid size SUV Envoy and it can meet most of the needs of rplacing the Suburban.

If you want something smaller you can get a Vue or Equinox.

allmet33

How right you are, however...not everyone is wild about a vehicle as large as the Suburban.

With the Lambdas, the best option is to utilize the roof rack and get one of those cargo crates, and maybe even get one of those tow hitch platforms that can accomodate a cargo crate as well. If not...a small trailer would come in handy.

allmet33

You're right...the Lambda has proven to be the perfect vehicle for my family as well. I was really just saying that if you have a family of 5 (2 adults and 3 kids), then you may have to look at cargo options for the exterior of the vehicle as the interior won't accomodate luggage for all too comfortably.

albook

With the Lambdas, the best option is to utilize the roof rack and get one of those cargo crates, and maybe even get one of those tow hitch platforms that can accomodate a cargo crate as well. If not...a small trailer would come in handy.

Exterior storage is not the best way to go when traveling with a lambdas, as it would cut down tremendously on the good gas mileage. That's the great thing about these lambdas. They have more room inside than anything else in the class. A family of five should haave plenty of room for a long trip with luggage INSIDE.

62vetteefp

A family of five should haave plenty of room for a long trip with luggage INSIDE.

Not if the back seat is used. There is not enough room behind the rear seat for luggage for 5. So you need to have at least one seat in the rear folded to have room for everything. So if you have 3 kids and a big dog you are tight! Of course that is true for pretty much any vehicle except a minivan.

dmathews3

Thats why they make so many vehicles. Hopefully most people buy the type of vehicle that is compatible with their family. If they have 3 kids and a big dog or 4 kids and no dog then they need a van or better yet, leave the kids at home and enjoy a little piece and quiet. :shades: ( just kidding.)

drwilsc

I read on Wikipedia, of all places, that GM may be offering the Direct Injection version of the 3.6 L engine in the Lambdas in 2009. Has anyone else heard of this?

zman3

It is a rumor at this point but the upcoming 2009 Chevrolet Traverse will have the DI engine and I find it hard to believe that the other brands would not, given Chevy's image of being "lower" end than say GMC and Buick.

drwilsc

Actually, someone had posted on this forum a few weeks ago that all 2009 Lambdas will have the DI engine, although I would like to know his/her source. Also would like to know if the DI engine will be standard or optional.

62vetteefp

With the complaints about being underpowered (which I vehemently disagree with) and the need for better MPG it would make sense to add the DI 3.6 and drop the plans for a V8. At least it would greatly decrease the penetration of the V8 if they offered it.

allmet33

Albook...I hate to say it, but I have a family of five (2 adults, an 11 & 13 year old, as well as a 6 mos. old baby in a car seat). Trust me when I tell you...for all of us to travel somewhere...luggage for all of us would not fit INSIDE and allow the 3 in the back to be comfortable. I also have no intention of blocking my view out the rear window either. If it was a one day trip, sure...you could manage with no problem, but if you were going somewhere for say a week's vacation...good luck my friend.

It's obvious you don't have a family of five to understand. A good portion of the luggage can go inside, but using something on the exterior would ensure everyone's comfort on the inside. Using a rooftop cago crate would cut down on your gas mileage, however...using one the attaches to the tow hitch...you really won't notice a dip in fuel economy. Also, you made a statement about "...cutting down tremendously on the good gas mileage." I can only assume you made that statement tongue-in-cheek. The gas mileage on the Lambdas is hardly good...below average at best. Which is the only complaint I have about the Lambda at all.

jay_24

Our Tahoe fits out family of 5 (kids 5, 9 and 11) just fine for a week long trip to Grandma's. We sometimes just have 3 in the second row, or optionally just use one third row seat to give them more space. I believe the Tahoe has less cargo space when the third row is in use. Like you I avoid packing above the height of the seats. Now the Lambda's are slightly narrower which might make the second row less comfortable for 3 kids. The third row for the Lambds is 60/40 split compared to the Tahoe's 50-50 split. So you should have more room with only one third row seat up.

However it would still be better than the second row of any other Crossover SUV out there except maybe the CX-9 which I'm not real familiar with. Pilot is narrower and shorter. Highlander is even smaller. MPG is similar on all of them, with the Pilot being EPA rated 2mpg less than the Lambdas.

Adding any weight to any vehical will hurt mpg. On top will be significantly worse than the back.

allmet33

Well...in our Outlook...we opted for the captains chairs as the 2nd row. So, one child has to sit in the 3rd row. We can lower the side that's not being used and put luggage there, but like you said...behind the 3rd row seat...the space (while more than most regular SUV's) isn't conducive to packing for long trips. The 60/40 split, may offer a couple of inches more space as compared to the 50/50 split, but with the Outlook being slightly narrower than the Tahoe...it's really not much of an advantage.

The way I can pack the luggage would be cool...the baby's bag can go in front of the seat where her car seat is. Stuff for the other girls would most likely fit behind the 3rd row and luggage for mommy and daddy MIGHT fit on the folded down side of the 3rd row seat. The probelm comes in with the need for the stroller, walker/bouncer and other such items. We're also not even talking about the other stuff that might come along as well. So if it were just straight up luggage...it could most likely be done.

I can attest that the Tahoe/Yukon has similar problems. My next door neighbor has a Yukon with 3rd row seats. When the seat is up...there is next to NO room behind it at all...maybe for a few bags of groceries.

Adding weight will hurt the FE, certainly, but not as much as having something on the roof that would also create more wind resistance while travelling. In all honesty, the best solution may just be a small travel trailer. I think that's what I'll ultimately be doing myself.

mseningen

Well we've got a Ford Explorer now -- and have have a hard shell
roof carrier I take on extended trips. Costs maybe 1MPG.

We're leaning heavily towards the Acadia. Wonder if the
hard shell will fit?

m

allmet33

The space on top of the roof looks like it'll handle most cargo carriers. However...you may want to opt for the cross bars (dealer add-on option) so that the carrier will rest on those instead of on the actual roof itself.

I know the roof is sturdy though, I carried a 16 ft. fiberglass A-frame ladder (very heavy) and had no problem with the roof caving in or anything.

tencjedd

Our other family car is a VW Touareg (05 w/ V8). They went direct injection in 07 model year and there was a BIG BOOST in HP. Nearly 30HP jump in the V6, whereby the 07 V6's were putting out 295 compared to the 06 V8's getting 310. The V8's saw a 40HP jump. Would prefer to see this type of gain versus adding more displacement.

As for the powered/unpowered issue. My wife and I really felt the car was underpowered, and the vehicle was always searching for the right gear on hills...downshifting, upshifting back right away, then downshifting again. Took the car in for its first service and had a software flash for the transmission and transfer case. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The throttle response and apparent torque on acceleration feels SO MUCH crisper. Maybe its psychosomatic, but its like its a whole different drivetrain.

62vetteefp

Maybe its psychosomatic, but its like its a whole different drivetrain.

No you are feeling something completely different with the new cals. The vehicle has lots of power now. Hopefully the 3.6 will get the DI treatment and make 300 hp with little decrease in MPG.

drwilsc

Saturnfans website says the 3.6 DI in the 2009 Otulook XR (and presumably the other lambdas) should make 290 hp (rather than 275) AND get better fuel economy than the current 3.6. They are saying they will start making the 09's in June. Bottom line - if you are interested in these cars, it might be best to hold out for an 09.