Maybe his story has changed since, but in this article he states he didn't try shifting to neutral:
"When the accelerator stuck, he said he weighed all his options. He feared turning the car off in the middle of traffic, expecting the steering wheel to lock. If he shifted into neutral, he worried that it would slip into reverse. The floor mat, he said, wasn't interfering with the gas pedal."
What is with these flaky Toyota and Lexus dealers? El Cajon Toyota is right across the street from the Lexus dealer that put in a wrong floor mat that killed the CHP officer and his family.
Sikes on Tuesday said he received a recall notice, but when he brought his Prius in for service about three weeks ago, the dealer in El Cajon said his car wasn't part of the recall. Sikes, who said he didn't read the letter from Toyota, couldn't specify what problem the recall was addressing.
The dealer, Toyota of El Cajon, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
I got a call from Poway Toyota to bring my 2007 Sequoia in for a recall. When I called them they realized mine was not on any recall list.
Sikes said he had never had a problem with Toyota vehicles. But when his friend showed up this morning to take him to the dealer in a Prius, he hesitated. "It just felt funny," he said. "I love Toyotas. I will not drive a Prius again."
Another one bites the dust. Toyota can claim they lose customers one SUA at a time.
When the accelerator stuck, he said he weighed all his options. He feared turning the car off in the middle of traffic, expecting the steering wheel to lock. If he shifted into neutral, he worried that it would slip into reverse.
That is something to think about. Your car has 53k miles and not under warranty. You shift into reverse and mess up a Toyota HSD system and it is about $10k to replace.
You can always shift into neutral by pushing/pulling the stick up but you can't do that to get into reverse. You have to depress the button on the stick to move it into reverse "accidentally." It's idiot and fail-proof, at least in every car I've driven!!!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
This UA brouhaha is made to order for scammers and tort laywers.
The most recent allegation of UA involving a Prius defies belief. A CHP officer pulls alongside a speeding Prius and shouts instructions while both are going about 90mph. The driver later says he was afraid to put his shifter into N because he feared it might accidentally go into reverse! How is he able to back out of his driveway in the morning? Then reportedly he is told to apply the emergency brake and the foot brake. Does this lock up the rear wheels?
Then the Officer pulls in front of the Prius but reportedly they do not touch until both have come to a safe stop on the shoulder of the road.
I'm waiting for further developments but I smell a pantload.
Alice and the rabbit would feel right at home in the middle of this affair.
do at least some basic research about the topic. find some pictures of the shift pattern, so you will have a bit of a clue. my sister has an '05, which has the same pattern. that is as nice as i can be, not my first choice.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
When the accelerator stuck, he said he weighed all his options. He feared turning the car off in the middle of traffic, expecting the steering wheel to lock. If he shifted into neutral, he worried that it would slip into reverse.
On tonight's network news, the Prius driver stated he was afraid to put the car in neutral as he was afraid it would flip.
Flip? Flip what? Pancakes?
My God, the guy is 61 years old and actually doesn't know how his car works! This went on for over 30 miles!!
Does anyone read their owner's manuals any more?
Maybe Toyota needs to print up a few million booklets on what to do if/when your Toyota starts accellerating all by itself. Apparently they haven't done enough to prepare the owners for the inevitable.
The talking head for the IHIS (or whatever) said that an intermittent computer failure was difficult to find. DUH!
My God, the guy is 61 years old and actually doesn't know how his car works! This went on for over 30 miles!!
He obviously does not like cars. He bought a Prius. Prius owners are geeks that are more into video games. He believed he owned a fail safe vehicle that would never screw up on him. This whole Toyota fiasco is a wake up call to the ignorant buyers that believe all the safety hype they hear and see on TV for Toyota and other makes. The more complex the car the more that can screw up. The Prius is one of the most complex cars sold. 30% more parts and pieces than a non hybrid mid sized car. Lots to go wrong and lots to fix when it does go wrong.
I can tell you right now if he had not called 911 and got the cops in on his high speed ride, he would be facing a big bill at the Toyota dealers. As it is he will get a free loaner and the royal Toyota treatment. So who was the dummy?
Probably a Wannabe Corvette owner. How many people do you see with Harley clothes that have never straddled a Hog?
Something else. That stretch of road should be familiar to him If he lives in Jacumba it is another good distance over the mountains to home. That must be how he put 53k miles on his car in two years. He lives 75 miles from downtown San Diego.
Anyone with a FIRST GRADE level education should be able to figure out directional arrows and that shift pattern, and that N means Neutral and R means reverse!
If you can't pass the Prius Auto Shifting course, then you can't live on your own.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
You have a lot of seat time in a Prius? Ever shift it in to neutral at highway Speeds? Prius owners are saying it does not go into neutral. What do you do then? When the brakes are not up to stopping the car? Your statements assume all cars work the same. Not even close. Maybe when you are older you will understand.
Why is someone that claims to like speed and handling defending Toyota? They have nothing of any value for your driving desires. Go German, the Japanese are not into fine handling cars. They sell cars to geeks and old dudes.
Looks like the corruption in Japan makes ours seem downright child like.
Critics say many companies benefit from Japan’s weak consumer protections. (The country has only one full-time automobile recall investigator, supported by 15 others on limited contracts.)
In a case in the food industry, a meat processor called Meat Hope collapsed in 2008 after revelations that it had mixed pork, mutton and chicken bits into products falsely labeled as pure ground beef, all under the noses of food inspectors.
A 2006 police inquiry into gas water heaters made by the manufacturer Paloma found that a defect had resulted in the deaths of 21 people over 10 years from carbon monoxide poisoning.
I guess we are lucky to have the NHTSA to protect consumers against gangster corporations like Toyota/Lexus. The Japanese people are being screwed over by Toyota.
Have you guys read this ? Not only does the toyota top brass in tokyo screwing consumers around the world, but they are also screwing their OWN workers ! Take a look at this :
.....According to an investigative report by the LA Times carried out in Toyota’s hometown of Toyota, Japan, six workers came together in 2006 in an attempt to warn the now ailing automaker of impending safety and quality concerns.
The six men – all union workers in Japan – had come together and agreed that the automaker [Toyota] had turned to extensive use of unpaid overtime and cuts in workforce while simultaneously increasing output in order to keep up with increased demand in the U.S. market. One statistic the workers listed in their memo was Toyota’s 5 million recalled vehicles between 2000 and 2005 – totaling 36% of everything sold during that same period – a rate higher than other automakers.
The men explained to the LA Times that the two-page memo warned Toyota that a failure to act could eventually “become a great problem that involves the company’s survival. We are concerned about the processes which are essential for producing safe cars, but that ultimately may be ignored, with production continued in the name of competition.”
Despite their best efforts, the men say Toyota never even acknowledged receipt of the memo, “They completely ignored us. That’s the Toyota way,” said Tadao Wakatsuki, veteran assembly line worker, age 62.
....If senior Toyota officials ignored important safety concerns raised by their own employees, it calls into question Toyota’s corporate priorities and its commitment to safety,” wrote Towns (D-N.Y.), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform committee, in a letter to Toyota North America president Yoshimi Inaba....
in addition to knowledge of harsh work conditions that were believed to have led workers to commit suicide, suffer work related illness and even death.
“Our responsibility as a labor union was to point out these problems that Toyota should have known about. People were overworked; some were committing suicide,” Wakatsuki said. “Of course, Toyota did nothing, but looking back we see how important this was. We just told them what we saw.”
“We used to test every one of our cars for safety and quality,” said Wakatsuki. “Now we do maybe 60 percent. The old 100 percent is a thing of the past.”
Wakatsuki formed a labor union in 2006 that not only recognized full-time workers, but also part-time and imported workers. A chief concern was the allegedly regular corporate policy that called on extensive unpaid overtime hours by many workers.
In one case, a Japanese court ruled that a man died from karoshi, which means he worked himself to death. The man, Kenichi Uchino, was 30 years old and reportedly worked 14 hours a day leading up to his final month in which he worked 144 hours of unpaid overtime, according to his widowed wife. Uchino died of heart failure while working at his desk.
Uchino’s widow managed to sneak into a Toyota stockholder’s meeting where she questioned then-president Katsuaki Watanabe about unpaid overtime – Watanabe gave no answer and said they would “look into it.”
In 1970, a man by the name of Fumio Matsuda formed the Japan Automobile Consumer Union, an organization which acted as a consumer advocacy group. Matsuda is often referred to as the “Ralph Nader of Japan” for his actions. Matsuda is a former Nissan quality control engineer and says he has spent decades watching Japanese automakers – including Toyota.
Matsuda claimed that Toyota often sponsored “secret recalls” in which Toyota would ask customers to visit dealers for checkups and then they would replace known defective parts and then charge customers for the repairs. “Everything Toyota does is hidden, ” said Matsuda....
My God, after reading all these, if anyone still wants to buy toyotas, I think their brains grew not on top of their head but grew on their bottoms.....
I mean even their workers are spilling the beans. But still many people buy toyotas recently due to the big incentives. Thats absolutely nuts ! Its like buying from another Madoff who says I'll give you a big discount so long as you buy my mutual fund.
Can it get any crazier than this ? Pls spread this memo to all your loved ones. Guys, if toyota even does not care about their own japanese customers and employees, what makes you think they will care about American customers ?
For God's sake ! Tell the toyota dealers to change to another brand franchise and abandon toyota. They can still make a living selling other honorable brands. Why must they defend toyota to guard their livelihood ? They can still earn money switching brands right ?
This is a very serious matter. I think the US government must step in and close down toyota once and for all. Such a dishonorable corporation does not deserve to exist. They are even worse than Madoff / Lehman Brothers because their lies kill.
Oh yes, toyotas UAs also happen in Japan, but due to superb cover-up, there are no recalls at all there. The Japanese domestic market has it worse....
ben....I was that article. Last numbers I saw were down substantially for both Toyota and Lexus. So, Toyota doesn't listen to their customers, they don't listen to their employees, they don't listen to our own Congress.
Bottom line, it's no wonder that their in the predicament they're in.
I've never known a SUCCESSFUL company who stayed successful by not listening to their customers, nor their employees.
gagrice....I remember a time when Toyota was one of the pioneers in vehicle ergonomics. Seeing those gated shifters in the Lexus, and now this one in the Prius, looks like they don't take ergonomics very seriously much these days.
Wait, those gated shifters in the Lexus? :confuse: Have you ever looked inside a Mercedes, Subaru, Mazda, or other makes who also use gated systems? Why single out Toyota?
Other than that I agree, the system in the Prius takes a bit of getting used to but it goes with the theme of HSD, laden with advanced techno-gadgetry. Stuff that makes the car more futuristic.
gm....I've seen the shifters in the Benz's/Subies/Mazdas (and the worst offender, older Jags). Issue here is, none of those other manufacturers are dealing with the UA issues toyota/lexus is, however.
OK, I agree with that but again, why call out Toyota for being ergonomically flawed when there are others who are offering the same exact interface is all I am saying.
gm...you and I are in disagreement for most of this topic. But, just like houdini, I respect your opinions. I do agree that ergonomics have been given short shrift by many manufacturers. However, I've seen great improvement in that regard with most, if not all manufacturers.
This just flies in the face of what Toyota used to do regarding ergonomics and useablility, however.
In the long run I think all of the irrational bashing of Toyota will probably work to their advantage. They will simply make better and better cars.
In many circles there has been a slow, burning resentment of Toyota ever since the Lexus brand unseated the Germans as the top luxury brand. That, plus the fact that much of their success here has been achieved because of their strong stand against unions in general and the UAW in particular.
Some of the most strident posts we are beginning to see here have nothing to do with alleged UA, they are simply rants against Toyota. It is amusing that some of the posts are becoming so outlandish that there are the beginnings of a backlash, which I expect will grow more and more as real facts begin to emerge from some of the ongoing investigations.
I pity the poor Japanese autoworkers. Tired stressed-out people can't produce the best products. People were not put on this earth to be worked to death for the profit of others. Wantanabe literally ran Toyota into the ground. He is the Japanese Roger Smith.
" the Lexus brand unseated the Germans as the top luxury brand."
That might be a little generous...Lexus did force the Germans to eventually be more reliable, and to slow down price inflation...but the "top brand" is debatable.
If Toyota hadn't worked so hard to make cars that take the driving out of driving, all of this wouldn't be happening. Maybe they will learn the lesson.
Even though Akio Toyoda has kept the Toyota secrecy and litigious nature alive. Watanabe ran the company into the ground. I had read articles posted on the UAW thread about Toyota workers in Japan being forced to work long hours with no overtime pay. That does not happen in major US factories, union or non union.
Unlike some here, I think Toyota's problems are just beginning to surface. Look how long it took GM to crumble. The fast track designing and getting cars to market is now killing Toyota. Will it take $billions of Japanese aid to keep them going as it has GM and C?
If Toyota hadn't worked so hard to make cars that take the driving out of driving, all of this wouldn't be happening. Maybe they will learn the lesson.
I think that is precisely what we are seeing. So many different systems that have to work together for braking, throttle, stability, skid control, steering that it is just too much. Toyota found the problem with the braking on the Prius was two competing computers tied in with ABS and some other control system. Who knows what is going on in all those systems. It is obvious no one at Toyota does. Or they would have fixed their problems years ago.
Why is someone that claims to like speed and handling defending Toyota? They have nothing of any value for your driving desires. Go German, the Japanese are not into fine handling cars. They sell cars to geeks and old dudes.
I am defending Toyota because a lot of the stories I've heard and read blaming them for problems sounds like a lot of HOOEY, NONSENSE, and EXCUSES for poor driving and human errors. If it looks like it, if it sounds like it, then it probably is IT. And "it" in this case is people trying to take advantage of our civil legal system and make money off of a company with deep pockets (Toyota).
I am defending Toyota because though they sell nothing I'd want (I don't own any Toyota's right now), my family and brother seem to like them plenty, own them currently, and have owned them throughout my childhood as well. Toyota's have been supremely and UNTOUCHABLY reliable, dependable, durable, and safe.
In fact, I've been rear-ended twice, and my wife has been hit from behind 2 times as well while living in San Diego County for almost 8 years now (bad uninsured drivers both times for her, I was lucky they had insurance both times for me). None of those 4 vehicles hitting us were Toyotas (Jetta, Mustang, Harley Davidson Bike (thank you La Mesa PD), and an old Ford Taurus).
I'll give you that my father has scraped the side mirror up on a post entering a parking garage, and my brother rear-ended someone in the 4runner, but he made the grave human error of trying to pick up a spilled slurpee or something off the passenger footwell while driving alone, and hence hit someone while not looking (or at least not looking during the time he could of had to slow down in time).
The Prius driver in San Diego said from the articles I read "I was afraid to put it in neutral for fear of going into reverse." He did not say putting it into neutral at speed was ineffective. Obviously, the 2nd choice after neutral not working is to shut the vehicle off via the ignition key/button whatever that may be.
I read someone else had the bright idea of shifting into 1 or 2 low gears so that you can't go into lethal speed territory. Now that's thinking!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
andres....I gotta say, so far you've insulted senior citizens, allegedly "stupid people" (according to you), and have disregarded the obvious. Those reasons alone makes it extremely difficult to lend any credence to your posts.
Regarding your statement about Toyota's being UNTOUCHABLY reliable, dependable, durable and safe....well....thousands of people who had sludge issues with their Toyota engines, thousands who complained about UA issues, who knows how many whose Tacoma suffered from poor driveshaft engineering (and subsequent failures) would disagree with you. There are others who would too, except they died because of Toyota/Lexus failings.
Just as one (of many) examples I can state, you shared that it was a "bright idea" to move to a lower gear. Obviously, you don't know enough about the vehicle in question to understand it doesn't have the traditional "1st, 2nd, 3rd........etc" gear selectors. A prius has a CVT transmission.....no 1st ,2nd, etc.
I don't have any issues with anyone stating their opinion. However, to be insulting and "unknowing" (I was going to use a different word) about the topic at hand......well, it just can't seem to be taken seriously.
thousands of people who had sludge issues with their Toyota engines, thousands who complained about UA issues, who knows how many whose Tacoma suffered from poor driveshaft engineering (and subsequent failures) would disagree with you.
For every thousand people you can find that don't like Toyota's quality and durability, I could find a MILLION that would disagree. The sales figures agree with me on this, not you. People vote with their wallets.
My "bright idea" still holds water on every Toyota without a CVT transmission, so while not fully applicable to a Prius, it works for pretty much every other Toyota model out there. Also, I haven't driven a Prius, but I have driven a CVT Nissan, and it had "fake" gear selection and "auto-manual" control to at least help simulate gear selection and slow down the vehicle with engine braking. I can see why Toyota wouldn't include this "manual control" option as they aren't sport oriented (and for that matter, it's a joke in any car with CVT).
When you argue that Toyota has not been at the tops of the charts in quality for decades, and every source and measure of data disagrees with you, then it lends your comments no weight.
It is widely known Toyota is #1 in quality and durability, how do you think they got to #1 in sales? It wasn't their 0-60 times.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Not any more. Toyota is No. 3 now in the US, out of top 10 in both China and Europe. They were only No. 1 in the world for one year, 2008.
Anyone can make a short burst towards the front; the question is would it last. Soviet Union did it in the 1970s; Japan in 1980s; now China. Toyota did it by increasing the productivity like crazy and brainwashing the consumers.
You can fool some people all the time; or all the people some time; but you can not fool all the people all the time.
Why is Toyota #1 or 2 depending on who you ask in the world in sales? It's not that their cars manuever or handle the best. It's not that they are the fastest or quickest. It certainly isn't because they have the best interior quality (at least lately). They've never been a pioneer in safety advancements really.
So why is it they are basically #1 in the world in sales if their quality is so poor as you would like to lead people to believe?
By the way, I'm not a Toyota sales person, just someone with rational coherent thought here.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Toyota didn't BURST into #1 in the world for a short period of time.
Toyota's been around for decades upon decades, and they have steadily climbed in the sales charts due to onen major thing, the selling of quality durable vehicles that are reliable and cheap to maintain.
Sure, there are other reasons, but the biggest reason is that no matter where you go, whether it's CR or JD Powers, Toyota/Lexus always is at or near the top.
Has their interior quality and assembly gone downhill, yes, maybe thats true, especially from having factories in the US. However, even if they have gone downhill, their mountain was at a much higher elevation than everyone else (except maybe Honda), so they have much further to fall before reaching the rest of the competition.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
By your logic, GM had been world's No. 1 for over 70 years, Toyota only 1 year; GM must be 70 times better than Toyota, right?
People's perception trails the reality by 5 to 10 years. GM made bad products in the 1990s and it finally caught it up in recent years. Toyota's poor quality now will be reflected in their sales in the next 5 to 10 years.
You act like Toyota went from #100 to Number 1 in 2008 overnight.
Toyota has been around a lot longer than one night. Some people think their heyday was in the 80's, some say (even Lemko) that it was the early to mid 90's.
That's a lot of years to suddenly BURST into the top of the charts.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
GM is different than Toyota (and I don't think you have to be #1 to be good, just maybe "near" the top of the charts).
GM started around when the automobile started selling. They became big because they were the only one's around. They were sort of in the era of the invention of people buying their own personal automobile.
As such, they built a huge customer base due to being "first," and not having hardly any competition (Ford, Chrysler). In the US it was pretty much all Big 3 at first. It was a virtual monopoly, or oligopoly.
Toyota wasn't first, and built their empire with heavy competition from start to finish.
It's a totally different route to #1.
Also, GM's sold on price (being cheap). Toyota has never really been the cheapest (except in the long run true cost of ownership).
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
whether it's CR or JD Powers, Toyota/Lexus always is at or near the top.
I don't trust CR because they gather data from their own readers. People who do not have the same pro [non-permissible content removed] bias won't renew their subscription thus won't be included in the surveys. It's like a Republican magazine survey their own readers about which party is better, you know how the result goes.
JD Power is more neutral. I collect their data every year. Toyota has been as low as No. 8 in the JD Power dependability list in the 2000s, behind Buick, Lincoln, Mercury, Cadillac, from time to time.
Did you read the reviews from the real Toyota owners about their cars in the links I provided a few post before?
So they are far from untouchable! They are just a normal car company, no more , no less.
I never intended to insult senior citizens. I've just noticed they tend to drive Toyota's and Buicks :P
Also, when you can see someone in front of traffic impeding traffic, it is often a senior citizen. We just need to teach left lane courtesy (it's the law) better to the entire driving public (young and old alike).
I believe if we made the speed limits 100 MPH on the freeway and highways, that would be FAR more effective at reducing driver distractions such as texting and cell phone usage than any other law would.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
GM started around when the automobile started selling. They became big because they were the only one's around
GM was not the 1st car company. They started in 1908, at the time with a hundred car companies around. They emerged as a winner quickly and held on the No. 1 title for over 70 years.
Toyota started in 1937; they co-existed with GM for 73 years. That's a long time. In this 73 years, Toyota was only able to beat GM twice.
I don't trust CR because they gather data from their own reader. People who do not have the same pro [non-permissible content removed] bias won't renew their subscription thus won't be included in the survey. It's like a Republican magazine survey their own readers about which party is better, you know how the result goes.
How do you explain how CR got only a "pro [non-permissible content removed]" reader subscriber base? I don't have a Pro [non-permissible content removed] bias and I still like CR. They rated my first car very poorly and I didn't excommunicate CR out of my life (turns out they were every bit right about it being poor). Why won't non-biased readers renew their subscription? That doesn't make any sense. A Republican magazine is republican in the first place, but CR was always intended to be neutral, straight-forward, and without bias.
JD Power is more neutral. I collect their data every year. Toyota has been as low as No. 8 in the JD Power dependability list behind Buick, Lincoln, Mercury, Cadillac, from time to time.
JD Power is really nothing more than a bought and paid for advertisement that can be had by the highest bidder. That having been said, Toyota may have been as low as #8 but out of how many? #8 out of? Please do tell. You act as if #8 is horrible, when you know it's good. There are more automakers below #8 than their are above. Normal, I think not. By the way, you fail to mention where Lexus was on JD Power's chart for the last 10 years.
I read the reviews. LIke I said, for every review you find that's negative, I can find 1,000 that will give a positive review.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Comments
The guy with the runaway Prius - it said he tried to put the car into neutral and couldn't. Has anyone heard yet why?
I base it on personal observation that most Toyota driver's are not paying enough attention to driving.
The Scion brand does make Toyota have a younger crowd.
"When the accelerator stuck, he said he weighed all his options. He feared turning the car off in the middle of traffic, expecting the steering wheel to lock. If he shifted into neutral, he worried that it would slip into reverse. The floor mat, he said, wasn't interfering with the gas pedal."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-prius10-2010mar10,0,7196393.story
Sikes on Tuesday said he received a recall notice, but when he brought his Prius in for service about three weeks ago, the dealer in El Cajon said his car wasn't part of the recall. Sikes, who said he didn't read the letter from Toyota, couldn't specify what problem the recall was addressing.
The dealer, Toyota of El Cajon, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
I got a call from Poway Toyota to bring my 2007 Sequoia in for a recall. When I called them they realized mine was not on any recall list.
Sikes said he had never had a problem with Toyota vehicles. But when his friend showed up this morning to take him to the dealer in a Prius, he hesitated. "It just felt funny," he said. "I love Toyotas. I will not drive a Prius again."
Another one bites the dust. Toyota can claim they lose customers one SUA at a time.
When the accelerator stuck, he said he weighed all his options. He feared turning the car off in the middle of traffic, expecting the steering wheel to lock. If he shifted into neutral, he worried that it would slip into reverse.
That is something to think about. Your car has 53k miles and not under warranty. You shift into reverse and mess up a Toyota HSD system and it is about $10k to replace.
LOL, is this guy a stand up comic in deperate need of attention?
I've put a vehicle into reverse before at speed going forward and all it does is kill/stall the engine immediately ('95 Geo Prism/Corolla).
How come everyone that experiences supposed UA is a whacko, incompetent imposter?
This UA brouhaha is made to order for scammers and tort laywers.
The most recent allegation of UA involving a Prius defies belief. A CHP officer pulls alongside a speeding Prius and shouts instructions while both are going about 90mph. The driver later says he was afraid to put his shifter into N because he feared it might accidentally go into reverse! How is he able to back out of his driveway in the morning? Then reportedly he is told to apply the emergency brake and the foot brake. Does this lock up the rear wheels?
Then the Officer pulls in front of the Prius but reportedly they do not touch until both have come to a safe stop on the shoulder of the road.
I'm waiting for further developments but I smell a pantload.
Alice and the rabbit would feel right at home in the middle of this affair.
Regards, DQ
find some pictures of the shift pattern, so you will have a bit of a clue.
my sister has an '05, which has the same pattern.
that is as nice as i can be, not my first choice.
On tonight's network news, the Prius driver stated he was afraid to put the car in neutral as he was afraid it would flip.
Flip? Flip what? Pancakes?
My God, the guy is 61 years old and actually doesn't know how his car works! This went on for over 30 miles!!
Does anyone read their owner's manuals any more?
Maybe Toyota needs to print up a few million booklets on what to do if/when your Toyota starts accellerating all by itself. Apparently they haven't done enough to prepare the owners for the inevitable.
The talking head for the IHIS (or whatever) said that an intermittent computer failure was difficult to find. DUH!
He obviously does not like cars. He bought a Prius. Prius owners are geeks that are more into video games. He believed he owned a fail safe vehicle that would never screw up on him. This whole Toyota fiasco is a wake up call to the ignorant buyers that believe all the safety hype they hear and see on TV for Toyota and other makes. The more complex the car the more that can screw up. The Prius is one of the most complex cars sold. 30% more parts and pieces than a non hybrid mid sized car. Lots to go wrong and lots to fix when it does go wrong.
I can tell you right now if he had not called 911 and got the cops in on his high speed ride, he would be facing a big bill at the Toyota dealers. As it is he will get a free loaner and the royal Toyota treatment. So who was the dummy?
Corvette Owners Club San Diego
http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/community/toyota-prius-recall/
Watch the video, at 1:50 pause and zoom in.
I'm not trying to imply it was a stunt, just someone who is part of a car club should know the basics. Guess not :surprise:
Something else. That stretch of road should be familiar to him If he lives in Jacumba it is another good distance over the mountains to home. That must be how he put 53k miles on his car in two years. He lives 75 miles from downtown San Diego.
previous basically a 'T' tilted over 90 degrees to the left.
If you can't pass the Prius Auto Shifting course, then you can't live on your own.
http://www.theledger.com/article/20100306/ZNYT01/3063016?Title=Millions-of-Toyot- as-Recalled-None-in-Japan
Why is someone that claims to like speed and handling defending Toyota? They have nothing of any value for your driving desires. Go German, the Japanese are not into fine handling cars. They sell cars to geeks and old dudes.
Critics say many companies benefit from Japan’s weak consumer protections. (The country has only one full-time automobile recall investigator, supported by 15 others on limited contracts.)
In a case in the food industry, a meat processor called Meat Hope collapsed in 2008 after revelations that it had mixed pork, mutton and chicken bits into products falsely labeled as pure ground beef, all under the noses of food inspectors.
A 2006 police inquiry into gas water heaters made by the manufacturer Paloma found that a defect had resulted in the deaths of 21 people over 10 years from carbon monoxide poisoning.
I guess we are lucky to have the NHTSA to protect consumers against gangster corporations like Toyota/Lexus. The Japanese people are being screwed over by Toyota.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-workers-outlined-safety-concerns-in-ignored-2- 006-memo.html
.....According to an investigative report by the LA Times carried out in Toyota’s hometown of Toyota, Japan, six workers came together in 2006 in an attempt to warn the now ailing automaker of impending safety and quality concerns.
The six men – all union workers in Japan – had come together and agreed that the automaker [Toyota] had turned to extensive use of unpaid overtime and cuts in workforce while simultaneously increasing output in order to keep up with increased demand in the U.S. market. One statistic the workers listed in their memo was Toyota’s 5 million recalled vehicles between 2000 and 2005 – totaling 36% of everything sold during that same period – a rate higher than other automakers.
The men explained to the LA Times that the two-page memo warned Toyota that a failure to act could eventually “become a great problem that involves the company’s survival. We are concerned about the processes which are essential for producing safe cars, but that ultimately may be ignored, with production continued in the name of competition.”
Despite their best efforts, the men say Toyota never even acknowledged receipt of the memo, “They completely ignored us. That’s the Toyota way,” said Tadao Wakatsuki, veteran assembly line worker, age 62.
....If senior Toyota officials ignored important safety concerns raised by their own employees, it calls into question Toyota’s corporate priorities and its commitment to safety,” wrote Towns (D-N.Y.), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform committee, in a letter to Toyota North America president Yoshimi Inaba....
in addition to knowledge of harsh work conditions that were believed to have led workers to commit suicide, suffer work related illness and even death.
“Our responsibility as a labor union was to point out these problems that Toyota should have known about. People were overworked; some were committing suicide,” Wakatsuki said. “Of course, Toyota did nothing, but looking back we see how important this was. We just told them what we saw.”
“We used to test every one of our cars for safety and quality,” said Wakatsuki. “Now we do maybe 60 percent. The old 100 percent is a thing of the past.”
Wakatsuki formed a labor union in 2006 that not only recognized full-time workers, but also part-time and imported workers. A chief concern was the allegedly regular corporate policy that called on extensive unpaid overtime hours by many workers.
In one case, a Japanese court ruled that a man died from karoshi, which means he worked himself to death. The man, Kenichi Uchino, was 30 years old and reportedly worked 14 hours a day leading up to his final month in which he worked 144 hours of unpaid overtime, according to his widowed wife. Uchino died of heart failure while working at his desk.
Uchino’s widow managed to sneak into a Toyota stockholder’s meeting where she questioned then-president Katsuaki Watanabe about unpaid overtime – Watanabe gave no answer and said they would “look into it.”
In 1970, a man by the name of Fumio Matsuda formed the Japan Automobile Consumer Union, an organization which acted as a consumer advocacy group. Matsuda is often referred to as the “Ralph Nader of Japan” for his actions. Matsuda is a former Nissan quality control engineer and says he has spent decades watching Japanese automakers – including Toyota.
Matsuda claimed that Toyota often sponsored “secret recalls” in which Toyota would ask customers to visit dealers for checkups and then they would replace known defective parts and then charge customers for the repairs. “Everything Toyota does is hidden, ” said Matsuda....
My God, after reading all these, if anyone still wants to buy toyotas, I think their brains grew not on top of their head but grew on their bottoms.....
I mean even their workers are spilling the beans. But still many people buy toyotas recently due to the big incentives. Thats absolutely nuts ! Its like buying from another Madoff who says I'll give you a big discount so long as you buy my mutual fund.
Can it get any crazier than this ? Pls spread this memo to all your loved ones. Guys, if toyota even does not care about their own japanese customers and employees, what makes you think they will care about American customers ?
For God's sake ! Tell the toyota dealers to change to another brand franchise and abandon toyota. They can still make a living selling other honorable brands. Why must they defend toyota to guard their livelihood ? They can still earn money switching brands right ?
This is a very serious matter. I think the US government must step in and close down toyota once and for all. Such a dishonorable corporation does not deserve to exist. They are even worse than Madoff / Lehman Brothers because their lies kill.
Oh yes, toyotas UAs also happen in Japan, but due to superb cover-up, there are no recalls at all there. The Japanese domestic market has it worse....
Bottom line, it's no wonder that their in the predicament they're in.
I've never known a SUCCESSFUL company who stayed successful by not listening to their customers, nor their employees.
Other than that I agree, the system in the Prius takes a bit of getting used to but it goes with the theme of HSD, laden with advanced techno-gadgetry. Stuff that makes the car more futuristic.
This just flies in the face of what Toyota used to do regarding ergonomics and useablility, however.
In many circles there has been a slow, burning resentment of Toyota ever since the Lexus brand unseated the Germans as the top luxury brand. That, plus the fact that much of their success here has been achieved because of their strong stand against unions in general and the UAW in particular.
Some of the most strident posts we are beginning to see here have nothing to do with alleged UA, they are simply rants against Toyota. It is amusing that some of the posts are becoming so outlandish that there are the beginnings of a backlash, which I expect will grow more and more as real facts begin to emerge from some of the ongoing investigations.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
That might be a little generous...Lexus did force the Germans to eventually be more reliable, and to slow down price inflation...but the "top brand" is debatable.
If Toyota hadn't worked so hard to make cars that take the driving out of driving, all of this wouldn't be happening. Maybe they will learn the lesson.
Are you accusing me of exaggeration? Here on these forums? I'm outraged !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Unlike some here, I think Toyota's problems are just beginning to surface. Look how long it took GM to crumble. The fast track designing and getting cars to market is now killing Toyota. Will it take $billions of Japanese aid to keep them going as it has GM and C?
I think that is precisely what we are seeing. So many different systems that have to work together for braking, throttle, stability, skid control, steering that it is just too much. Toyota found the problem with the braking on the Prius was two competing computers tied in with ABS and some other control system. Who knows what is going on in all those systems. It is obvious no one at Toyota does. Or they would have fixed their problems years ago.
I am defending Toyota because a lot of the stories I've heard and read blaming them for problems sounds like a lot of HOOEY, NONSENSE, and EXCUSES for poor driving and human errors. If it looks like it, if it sounds like it, then it probably is IT. And "it" in this case is people trying to take advantage of our civil legal system and make money off of a company with deep pockets (Toyota).
I am defending Toyota because though they sell nothing I'd want (I don't own any Toyota's right now), my family and brother seem to like them plenty, own them currently, and have owned them throughout my childhood as well. Toyota's have been supremely and UNTOUCHABLY reliable, dependable, durable, and safe.
In fact, I've been rear-ended twice, and my wife has been hit from behind 2 times as well while living in San Diego County for almost 8 years now (bad uninsured drivers both times for her, I was lucky they had insurance both times for me). None of those 4 vehicles hitting us were Toyotas (Jetta, Mustang, Harley Davidson Bike (thank you La Mesa PD), and an old Ford Taurus).
I'll give you that my father has scraped the side mirror up on a post entering a parking garage, and my brother rear-ended someone in the 4runner, but he made the grave human error of trying to pick up a spilled slurpee or something off the passenger footwell while driving alone, and hence hit someone while not looking (or at least not looking during the time he could of had to slow down in time).
The Prius driver in San Diego said from the articles I read "I was afraid to put it in neutral for fear of going into reverse." He did not say putting it into neutral at speed was ineffective. Obviously, the 2nd choice after neutral not working is to shut the vehicle off via the ignition key/button whatever that may be.
I read someone else had the bright idea of shifting into 1 or 2 low gears so that you can't go into lethal speed territory. Now that's thinking!
Regarding your statement about Toyota's being UNTOUCHABLY reliable, dependable, durable and safe....well....thousands of people who had sludge issues with their Toyota engines, thousands who complained about UA issues, who knows how many whose Tacoma suffered from poor driveshaft engineering (and subsequent failures) would disagree with you. There are others who would too, except they died because of Toyota/Lexus failings.
Just as one (of many) examples I can state, you shared that it was a "bright idea" to move to a lower gear. Obviously, you don't know enough about the vehicle in question to understand it doesn't have the traditional "1st, 2nd, 3rd........etc" gear selectors. A prius has a CVT transmission.....no 1st ,2nd, etc.
I don't have any issues with anyone stating their opinion. However, to be insulting and "unknowing" (I was going to use a different word) about the topic at hand......well, it just can't seem to be taken seriously.
Oh yeah? Read these Toyota owner's reviews of their cars:
Camry
Corolla
For every thousand people you can find that don't like Toyota's quality and durability, I could find a MILLION that would disagree. The sales figures agree with me on this, not you. People vote with their wallets.
My "bright idea" still holds water on every Toyota without a CVT transmission, so while not fully applicable to a Prius, it works for pretty much every other Toyota model out there. Also, I haven't driven a Prius, but I have driven a CVT Nissan, and it had "fake" gear selection and "auto-manual" control to at least help simulate gear selection and slow down the vehicle with engine braking. I can see why Toyota wouldn't include this "manual control" option as they aren't sport oriented (and for that matter, it's a joke in any car with CVT).
When you argue that Toyota has not been at the tops of the charts in quality for decades, and every source and measure of data disagrees with you, then it lends your comments no weight.
It is widely known Toyota is #1 in quality and durability, how do you think they got to #1 in sales? It wasn't their 0-60 times.
But, it's clear to me that either you're a Toyota sales person (nothing wrong with that). Or, that you're just attempting to stir the pot.
In either case, I'll just scroll past your posts.
Not any more. Toyota is No. 3 now in the US, out of top 10 in both China and Europe. They were only No. 1 in the world for one year, 2008.
Anyone can make a short burst towards the front; the question is would it last. Soviet Union did it in the 1970s; Japan in 1980s; now China. Toyota did it by increasing the productivity like crazy and brainwashing the consumers.
You can fool some people all the time; or all the people some time; but you can not fool all the people all the time.
Why is Toyota #1 or 2 depending on who you ask in the world in sales? It's not that their cars manuever or handle the best. It's not that they are the fastest or quickest. It certainly isn't because they have the best interior quality (at least lately). They've never been a pioneer in safety advancements really.
So why is it they are basically #1 in the world in sales if their quality is so poor as you would like to lead people to believe?
By the way, I'm not a Toyota sales person, just someone with rational coherent thought here.
Toyota is #1 (or now #3 as he argues; still at the tops of the charts in sales either way) due to:
Fooling people
Fooling customers
Brainwashing everyone or a good portion of the world's population.
Yes, this sounds like rational coherent thought to me. People often make the 2nd biggest purchase decision of their lives based on brainwashing.
Toyota's been around for decades upon decades, and they have steadily climbed in the sales charts due to onen major thing, the selling of quality durable vehicles that are reliable and cheap to maintain.
Sure, there are other reasons, but the biggest reason is that no matter where you go, whether it's CR or JD Powers, Toyota/Lexus always is at or near the top.
Has their interior quality and assembly gone downhill, yes, maybe thats true, especially from having factories in the US. However, even if they have gone downhill, their mountain was at a much higher elevation than everyone else (except maybe Honda), so they have much further to fall before reaching the rest of the competition.
By your logic, GM had been world's No. 1 for over 70 years, Toyota only 1 year; GM must be 70 times better than Toyota, right?
People's perception trails the reality by 5 to 10 years. GM made bad products in the 1990s and it finally caught it up in recent years. Toyota's poor quality now will be reflected in their sales in the next 5 to 10 years.
Toyota has been around a lot longer than one night. Some people think their heyday was in the 80's, some say (even Lemko) that it was the early to mid 90's.
That's a lot of years to suddenly BURST into the top of the charts.
GM started around when the automobile started selling. They became big because they were the only one's around. They were sort of in the era of the invention of people buying their own personal automobile.
As such, they built a huge customer base due to being "first," and not having hardly any competition (Ford, Chrysler). In the US it was pretty much all Big 3 at first. It was a virtual monopoly, or oligopoly.
Toyota wasn't first, and built their empire with heavy competition from start to finish.
It's a totally different route to #1.
Also, GM's sold on price (being cheap). Toyota has never really been the cheapest (except in the long run true cost of ownership).
I don't trust CR because they gather data from their own readers. People who do not have the same pro [non-permissible content removed] bias won't renew their subscription thus won't be included in the surveys. It's like a Republican magazine survey their own readers about which party is better, you know how the result goes.
JD Power is more neutral. I collect their data every year. Toyota has been as low as No. 8 in the JD Power dependability list in the 2000s, behind Buick, Lincoln, Mercury, Cadillac, from time to time.
Did you read the reviews from the real Toyota owners about their cars in the links I provided a few post before?
So they are far from untouchable! They are just a normal car company, no more , no less.
I never intended to insult senior citizens. I've just noticed they tend to drive Toyota's and Buicks :P
Also, when you can see someone in front of traffic impeding traffic, it is often a senior citizen. We just need to teach left lane courtesy (it's the law) better to the entire driving public (young and old alike).
I believe if we made the speed limits 100 MPH on the freeway and highways, that would be FAR more effective at reducing driver distractions such as texting and cell phone usage than any other law would.
GM was not the 1st car company. They started in 1908, at the time with a hundred car companies around. They emerged as a winner quickly and held on the No. 1 title for over 70 years.
Toyota started in 1937; they co-existed with GM for 73 years. That's a long time. In this 73 years, Toyota was only able to beat GM twice.
How do you explain how CR got only a "pro [non-permissible content removed]" reader subscriber base? I don't have a Pro [non-permissible content removed] bias and I still like CR. They rated my first car very poorly and I didn't excommunicate CR out of my life (turns out they were every bit right about it being poor). Why won't non-biased readers renew their subscription? That doesn't make any sense. A Republican magazine is republican in the first place, but CR was always intended to be neutral, straight-forward, and without bias.
JD Power is more neutral. I collect their data every year. Toyota has been as low as No. 8 in the JD Power dependability list behind Buick, Lincoln, Mercury, Cadillac, from time to time.
JD Power is really nothing more than a bought and paid for advertisement that can be had by the highest bidder. That having been said, Toyota may have been as low as #8 but out of how many? #8 out of? Please do tell. You act as if #8 is horrible, when you know it's good. There are more automakers below #8 than their are above. Normal, I think not. By the way, you fail to mention where Lexus was on JD Power's chart for the last 10 years.
I read the reviews. LIke I said, for every review you find that's negative, I can find 1,000 that will give a positive review.
No wonder!!! Also, GM became huge early on, while Toyota remained small for many years.