We know from past NHTSA testing that Toyota ECUs were susceptible to EMF.
We do? When did NHTSA say that? And I thought you didn't trust the "so-called experts" at the agency. You can't have it both ways.
About those power lines, how do you explain that the EMF interference, if even a valid argument, lasted for 30 miles? Do the lines run parallel to the freeway or simply cross it at various locations? The only EMF interference from power lines I've ever noticed is static in AM radio signals only when you're directly under the lines.
or the CHP officer to witness the brake lights on the speeding Prius and smelled burning brakes at the same time while the Prius was not decelerating, the only conclusion is that the brake override system failed during the incident.
That conclusion would have required something like this "I saw the brake lights remain steadily on for over 30 seconds, and the vehicle did not deccelerate during those 30 seconds. Unfortunately for you, the CHP officer said no such thing.
He said he saw brake lights (could have been as short as 1 nanosecond) He said he smelled brakes burning (could have been carried over from overheated brakes previously abused 2 minutes before the officer opened his nose).
Next!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Amazing. Now toyota/lexus is able to read their data records in their cars. Their data recorders only recorded for 5 seconds or something. Earlier they claimed they don't provide much data and there was only 1 reader on the whole country (our country, at least).
Now their recorders can store data for 30 minutes of inputs? Amazing.
Ah, someone else who didn't read the whole story. Two different animals -- it's NOT the EDR in the Prius!
A traditional car shifts into neutral with one easy step. All you do is push the shift lever to the "N" position. But in the Prius Emmett found out, you must first push the shift lever to "N," then hold it in that position and finally wait a second or two before the transmission shifts into neutral.
The Prius sounds like one easy step too, a one-step procedure with a delay of a couple seconds.
Unless of course the shift lever is spring loaded to go back into drive unless you HOLD it in neutral for a couple seconds. Is that the case? In either event, if you own the vehicle, you should know how to operate it; that should be a motor vehicle law.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
The shifter is spring-loaded to go back to its "rest" position, but the transmission will remain in drive if you don't hold the shifter in neutral for a second or so. Makes perfect sense, as you don't want to select neutral while driving with an inadvertent nudge.
In any case, the lighted display in the instrument panel will clearly show which gear you are in.
The Park position has its own dedicated pushbutton directly above the shifter.
(All comments refer to the 2004-09 models. I believe the '10 model has the same setup.)
Mr. Sikes did not refuse to put the car to neutral. It appeared that he was overwhelmed by the uncontrollable acceleration and his mind did not register what the 911 operator asked him to do.
Then why call 911 in the first place if you already know you don't have the capability of doing more than 1 thing at a time? If you can't register and listen to the 911 operator, what was the point and purpose of the phone call? Companionship?
The 911 operator asked if there was a way he could take the car out of gear.
I disagree. I believe I heard a portion of the 911 tape where the operator very clearly said "have you tried putting it in neutral; put it in neutral."
It is apparent that Mr. Sikes was unable to handle the phone call and control the speeding Prius on the winding stretch of interstate 8 simultaneously,
Using the adjective "winding stretch" to describe that portion of Interstate 8 is a BIG, BIG stretch. It is relatively straight, with mostly an uphill light gradual incline, and the curves are very low in degree and magnitude. There are no curves where the 65 or 70 MPH Speed limit is required to be lowered due to the sharpness of a turn, since there are no sharp turns.
Why didn't she turn the car onto the road rather than go straight into the wall? Sounds fishy to me. Another incompetent driver. Oh wait, let me guess, the SUA episodes cause the engine, accelerator, transmission, steering wheel, power steering, braking and ignition systems to all fail simultaneously. All these different and separate systems must all fail simultaneously for SUA to be real and true; unless of course, it's all driver error.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Makes perfect sense, as you don't want to select neutral while driving with an inadvertent nudge.
I disagree with you there, I think this Prius spring loading tranny stick feature is COUNTER-intuitive. If you accidentally select neutral, you'll know it when your engine revs up and all you have to do is put it back in D. No reason to have a spring loaded timer.
However, I put 100% of the liability on the driver of the vehicle to read their owner's manual and know how to operate their vehicle that they own. This includes "how to shift to neutral."
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Thanks for describing the interstate there, and I'm not surprised. It's usually in mountainous areas only where interstates have marked curves with lower speed limit advisory signs. Even in those cases, I find I can sail right through at the normal posted limit in any modern passenger car on dry pavement.
Therefore, in the case of Mr. Sikes, he made the correct decision under his limited ability. If he had continued to multi-task by trying to get instruction from the phone that was becoming more and more inaudible, he might have ended up hitting other vehicles or veered off the road due to the Mobile Phone Drunken Equivalent Effect.
So then we both agree he made the WRONG decision in calling 911 in the first place?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
The shifter is only LIGHTLY spring loaded. You can easily move it with one finger and the dash display indicates which gear you've selected. With the car stopped, it goes into the desired gear instantly. Only when moving do you have to hold it in the neutral position to disconnect the drive wheels from the engine and motor.
Looks like Teacher found another pupil who didn't finish his reading assignment. See my above post.
I read it. Don't think you have a clue of what you are talking about. There are hundreds of UA with the Prius since Gen2 launched. This is the first time I have heard that any thing but a computer reset was done, and the customer shoved out the door. If they recreated the Sikes Prius, they should be able to create all cases and tell if the person had their foot on the brake or the gas. The only hoax is what Toyota is trying to pull on the weak minded American public.
PS There are 100s of cases of Prius towed to the dealer. So that excuse is not valid.
I thought you didn't trust the "so-called experts" at the agency. You can't have it both ways.
I don't. And that is one of the reasons. They dropped the investigation when their buddies that now work for Toyota convinced them it was not a valid test. You can read about it here if you are interested in the truth about Toyota UA.
The lines cross the freeway just where Sikes testified he stepped on the gas to pass someone. At that point the car kept accelerating. I truly believe I am more interested in what really happened than the Toyota FAITHFUL. :confuse:
So the onboard self-diagnostic system revealed that the brakes and the accelerator on his Prius had been alternately "pumped" 250 times during the incident. So what? First of all, with a stuck gas pedal, every time the driver repeatedly step hard on the brake, the self-diagnostic system may register changing acceleration as pumping of the gas pedal and the go and stop in that trip before the SUD happened may have been included as well. Second, it is also not uncommon for the driver on the freeway in a vehicle with a stuck gas pedal to pump the gas pedal from time to time to see if it can be unstuck. In fact Complaint Number:10303507 VIN : JTDKB20U277... shows that a driver in a Prius with SUD on the freeway did exactly that to free the stuck gas pedal or jar the malfunction throttle back to normal. In the drivers own word: "I KEPT HITTING THE BRAKES AGAIN, AND ALSO PUMPED THE ACCELERATOR TO MAKE SURE IT WASN'T STUCK AND THEN THE CAR STOPPED ACCELERATING."
It is different to have a driver press the gas pedal from time to time to see if it can be unstuck and 250 presses. I'd say thats "time to time to the tenth power!"
Besides, Sikes said the accelerator wasn't stuck and that he pulled up on it to make sure.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"In your case it's a very simple solution. Just buy the Malibu and don't worry about it."
Too bad I had already bought a 2007 Camry 4 cylinder to replace my 1998 Corolla and found that it had acceleration hesitation problem while the 6 cylinder one has unintended acceleration problem. I traded it in just after about a month when I found out on the internet that Toyota refused to admit there was a problem and the dealers told complaining customers that the Camry has a computer that learns the driving habit of the driver and that the Camry performed as designed. It turns out that 2007 Camry has the most complaint related to speed control on the NHTSA website among all model years of Camry - mostly about sudden unintended acceleration.
Good suggestion for buy the 2010 Malibu instead of the 2010 Camry. Don't want to become a scapegoat for Toyota which does not want to admit SUA problem other than floor mat entrapment and sticky pedal.
Toyota said that Sikes’ Prius is "perfectly normal" even though it was obvious that the override system which prevents the engine of the Prius from having power for acceleration when the gas pedal and the brake pedal are pressed simultaneously or when the gas pedal get stuck while the brake pedal is pressed did not work as witnessed by the CHP officer who saw brake lights on the speeding (not decelerating) Prius and smelled the smoke from the burning brakes.
The data from the diagnostics test indicated that the accelerator and the brake had been rapidly pressed, alternately back and forth, 250 times," said Mike Michels, vice president of corporate communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA.
It is possible that a electronic glitch on the computer caused the throttle on the Prius to become wide open even though the gas pedal was not really stuck. In such situation, Mr. Sikes would think the pedal was stuck and tried to unstuck it to no avail.
The fact that the data from the diagnostics test indicated that the accelerator and the brake had been rapidly pressed, alternately back and forth, 250 times during the incident but no one on the freeway nor the CHP officer reported seeing the Prius accelerating and decelerating in rapid succession only points to the likely scenario that the throttle was open so wide and the force of acceleration so powerful that pressing the overheated brakes repeatedly would cause no significant sign of deceleration.
If the unintended acceleration had happened only within a short distance when Mr. Sikes had to avoid hitting a slow vehicle ahead, of course he would have pressed hard and steadily on the brake pedal instead of pumping it. However, that was not the case. The unintended acceleration happened over a long distance on the freeway. So it was likely that Mr. Sikes pumped the brake repeatedly in a desperate attempt to stop the vehicle.
It’s basics human psychology. If pressing hard steadily on the brake pedal doesn’t stop a runaway vehicle with long open road ahead while the driver does not know or is afraid to shift the gear to neutral at high speed, it is normal for the driver to pump the brake pedal repeatedly to see if it would somehow make the brakes work again.
A complaint on the NHTSA website ( Complaint Number:10303507 VIN : JTDKB20U277...) by a driver who experienced sudden unintended acceleration on a 2007 Prius with long open road ahead also mentioned pumping the brake pedal and even the gas pedal in a desperate attempt to slow down or stop the vehicle. The driver stopped pumping after a couple of times only because it worked. The car stopped accelerating. Had the unintended acceleration continued after pumping the pedals a couple of times, I see no reason why the driver would have stopped pumping.
So did Mr. Sikes pump the brake pedal only or did he pump both the brake and gas pedal? If he had pumped the brake pedal only or mostly, there is still a possibility the computer may have recorded the data as alternate pumping of the gas and brake pedal because when the brake pedal is pressed, the computer may record an override or canceling out of the accelerating signal while the throttle continued to be wide open due to the computer glitch.
People in a runaway vehicle on the freeway react differently. Some would keep calm, control the brake and shift gear to neutral. Some are so frantic that they just concentrate on steering the vehicle to avoid hitting the other slow vehicles and keep the vehicle from veering off the road and pump the brake and gas pedals to see if it would stop the acceleration while not knowing or forgetting or too scared to shift the gear to neutral even when asked by a 911 operator “Is there a way for you to take the car out of gear?” ( The 911 operator should have said “ Shift the gear to neutral” instead of asking a question without mentioning the words “gear” and “neutral”. The 911 operator did not use a precise and commanding way to prompt the driver into shifting gear to neutral. She only put a question mark into a frantic mind that needed answer, not question.) Unfortunately, that was the kind of nervous driver Mr. Sikes was. That’s why he succeeded to stop the car only when prompted by a CHP officer who TOLD him to use the emergence brake as well as the foot brake to stop the car. When the Prius slowed down with both brakes on , Mr. Sikes then felt safe enough to turn off the engine.
It is absurd and foolish for the Toyota lackeys to insinuate that Mr. Sikes could somehow wear out the front brake pads completely and the rear brake pads to 0.02 inch thin just by pumping the gas and the brake pedals alternately 250 times on that stretch of freeway while showing no sign of acceleration and deceleration in rapid succession.
Unless Toyota is able to duplicate the same wear out conditions using brake pads of normal thickness and by pumping the gas and brake pedals alternately about 250 times on the same stretch of freeway without showing sign of acceleration and deceleration in rapid succession , the Toyota lackeys have nothing to support their conspiracy theory at all.
"Logically if someone is so scared to drive because of the supposed Toyota problem, that person shouldn't be driving at all (or taking the bus, or even walking in the vicinity of vehicles)! Just stay home and don't fall down the stairs! "
I'm not scared to drive because of other Toyotas on the road. However, I would be very scared to drive a Toyota with numerous complaints of unintended acceleration and not being able to stop by pressing hard on the brake. There are numerous complains on the NHTSA website that Toyota unintended acceleration often happens while the brake fails to stop the vehicle.
I don't want to end up like the scapegoat who got 8 years in jail because Toyota wants to cover up the fact that the Toyota model year in the accident, a 1996 Camry, has numerous complaints of unintended acceleration (probably due to faulty cruise control) on the NHTSA website.
As someone who had been a professional driver, I don't think the man would have stepped on the gas pedal instead of the brake on the freeway OFF RAMP because while a driver is on the freeway, his foot is on the gas. When he reaches the off ramp, shifting the foot to the brake would come naturally. Mistaking the gas for the brake in such situation is extremely unlikely.
Also the short distance on the off ramp ended up with a red light would make it very difficult to shift gear to neutral in time to overcome the unintended acceleration and to avoid crashing into vehicles stopping at the red light.
Stepping hard on the brake with the engine having unintended acceleration in such a short distance on the off ramp may not be intense enough to produce burning brakes as proof that the driver did not mistake the gas for the brake. So the prosecution may insist that there is no proof you have used the brake.
Off ramp is surely one of the worst locations to have sudden unintended acceleration. Driving a Toyota model having numerous complaints of unintended acceleration may destroy your whole life even when it is not your fault. Toyota doesn't care.
1. The concept that putting the car in neutral works even if the computer system is out of control giving unintended acceleration isn't right. If the shifting is controlled by some electronic system that requires a continual pressing of the shifter toward the neutral demand position, the electronic control (computer) may not be accepting inputs.
2. It's absolutely amazing that toyota-lexus now says they have lots of data stored in the recording devices but those deviced didn't know a thing on the high-priced vehicle that Officer Saylor and family were killed by. Indeed, the record only lasted 1 second or so, much shorter than GM's data storage from what I read. Absolutely amazing.
3. Is not it possible, and even likely, that a computer system that has gone haywire, could write a record to the now capable lexus-toyota recording device that shows alternating application of full throttle and then brake. Let's face it, a computer system that has reacted to some kind of extraneous effect and loses its mind, as evidenced by years of NHSTA records, is not likely to be operating correctly in its outputs.
The ball is in toyota-lexus' court along with that of Exponent, their PR firm, which seems to have been working harder than an NBC operative in Alaska looking for dirt on Palin the day after she was named a candidate!
"The concept that putting the car in neutral works even if the computer system is out of control giving unintended acceleration isn't right. If the shifting is controlled by some electronic system that requires a continual pressing of the shifter toward the neutral demand position, the electronic control (computer) may not be accepting inputs."
You got a good point. I think that's the reason why the driver of a 2007 Prius complained about not being able to turn off the engine and shift to neutral at certain speed:
Complaint Number:10304345 VIN : JTDKB20U977... ON OCTOBER 19, 2009 I WAS DRIVING SOUTH BOUND ON THE I-5 WHEN THE GAS PEDAL ON MY 2007 TOYOTA PRIUS GOT STUCK AND IT WASN'T THE FLOOR MAT. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A FLOOR MAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE MAJOR PROBLEM IS ON THE PRIUS THE PUSH START BUTTON FAILED SO YOU COULDN'T TURN OF THE VEHICLE AND WHEN YOU TRIED TO PUT IT IN NEUTRAL IT WOULD FAIL (NOT SURE WHY), I AM ASSUMING DO THE SPEED YOU ARE GOING THE COMPUTER DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO PUT IT NEUTRAL OR TURN IT OFF. *TR
Without a capable independent agent to take part in the investigation, Toyota pretty much can cover up whatever they want involving computer problems in their vehicles.
I never said that the brake lights of the Prius were constantly on. In fact I believe he did pump the brake along the way. My point is if while the CHP officer saw the brake lights on and smelled the burning brakes, he did not mention seeing the Prius decelerate at the same time. That means the engine power was on even though the brakes were pressed hard. That means the override system on the Prius that prevents the engine from having power for acceleration while the brake pedal is pressed hard failed during the incident. So it was a malfunctioned Prius. The unintended acceleration was real. What hoax are you babbling about?
"If the brake pads were .03 inch the day before the incident, and .02 after the incident, would your whole belief system be shattered?"
So you think Mr. Sikes has intentionally worn down the brake pads of his Prius to almost nothing the day before the incident in order to play a hoax. Wow, you have very far out imagination. If Mr. Sikes had bought huge sum of life insurance with his wife as benificiary and he died in the runaway Toyota that crashed, then I think you may be on the right track. Now Mr. Sike is alive and he just want you Toyota lackeys to leave him and his wife alone. Your imagination has become paranoiac.
I have never said the vehicle had its brakes and accelerator pumped 250 times.
No, you did not say that and no one said you did. What you said was that some poster simply made up the fact that the brakes were pumped 250 times.
When faced with the fact that you were wrong you are trying to change and deflect from your original statement. Are you used to getting away with this stuff?
Unless Toyota is able to duplicate the same wear out conditions using brake pads of normal thickness and by pumping the gas and brake pedals alternately about 250 times on the same stretch of freeway without showing sign of acceleration and deceleration in rapid succession , the Toyota lackeys have nothing to support their conspiracy theory at all.
Your arguments are far too logical for many here to comprehend. I am waiting for the computer readout on the 76 year old ladies Prius back East that ran into a block wall. That should tell the tale of what happened. I think the whole business of brake on, brake off is a smoke screen by Toyota. They know it cannot be traced after they drove the car with further tests. Just a damage control story concocted by one of their PR firms. They don't even keep their stories straight. One time it is the brake was hit 250 times. Then it was the brake, throttle alternately. C'mon Toyota you are not convincing anyone but the few faithfuls. Toyota has a long culture of lying and deceiving.
"Then why call 911 in the first place if you already know you don't have the capability of doing more than 1 thing at a time? If you can't register and listen to the 911 operator, what was the point and purpose of the phone call? Companionship?"
Mr. Sikes did not think he could not do multi-tasks on a runaway car before calling 911. It was the poor reply of the 911 operator, the worsening reception of the phone call and the arriving of the CHP officer that made him decide not to listen to the 911 operator anymore but concentrate on controlling the vehicle while waiting for the help of the CHP officer.
"I disagree. I believe I heard a portion of the 911 tape where the operator very clearly said "have you tried putting it in neutral; put it in neutral." You disagree with the facts. Perhaps that why you like to agree with Toyota. The 911 operator did ask "is there a way for you to get the car out of gear." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOMcmPNbpZY&feature=related I have given you the proof . Now you show me the proof that the 911 operator did say " put it in neutral". Your believe in things without proof. That's your problem.
"Using the adjective "winding stretch" to describe that portion of Interstate 8 is a BIG, BIG stretch. It is relatively straight, with mostly an uphill light gradual incline, and the curves are very low in degree and magnitude. There are no curves where the 65 or 70 MPH Speed limit is required to be lowered due to the sharpness of a turn, since there are no sharp turns."
Winding is a relative term. When that stretch has more curves than other strech of the same freeway, then it is winding relative to the straighter portion of the same freeway. Also when speed limit is 65 to 70 MPH but the runaway Prius was doing over 90 MPH, the curved road would appear to be more winding to a speeding car than a car in normal speed.
"Why didn't she turn the car onto the road rather than go straight into the wall? Sounds fishy to me. Another incompetent driver. Oh wait, let me guess, the SUA episodes cause the engine, accelerator, transmission, steering wheel, power steering, braking and ignition systems to all fail simultaneously. All these different and separate systems must all fail simultaneously for SUA to be real and true; unless of course, it's all driver error."
I think any claim that a Toyota has unintended acceleration would sound fishy to you. Any lie that Toyota says to cover up unintended acceleration of their vehicles would be music to your ears.
When faced with the fact that you were wrong you are trying to change and deflect from your original statement. Are you used to getting away with this stuff?
Days before Toyota grabbed the idea of alternate brake and throttle sequence, which I do not believe is true. A FanBoy here posted that very number of 250 times hitting the brakes and throttle. Odd coincidence wouldn't you say. It was his fantasy of a hoax perpetrated by Sikes. I am looking for the truth on SUA which is happening at an alarming rate with Toyota vehicles. I don't believe you are that interested in the Truth. Do you even own a Toyota that is under recall? I am not convinced that my Toyota is that safe even though it is not under that recall umbrella. I have to keep my foot firmly on the brake at stop lights to compensate for the surges that are NORMAL with Toyota vehicles.
Days before Toyota grabbed the idea of alternate brake and throttle sequence, which I do not believe is true. A FanBoy here posted that very number of 250 times hitting the brakes and throttle.
Really? Well how about directing me to that post if you don't mind. It should not be that hard for you to find it.
When that stretch has more curves than other strech of the same freeway, then it is winding relative to the straighter portion of the same freeway. Also when speed limit is 65 to 70 MPH but the runaway Prius was doing over 90 MPH, the curved road would appear to be more winding to a speeding car than a car in normal speed.
I drive much of the route in this incident every time I go shopping. It is gentle curves and steep uphill and downhill stretches. I would be surprised if a Prius could get to 90 MPH on the uphill parts. It is all posted 70 MPH. The downhill sections you could get a bicycle up to high speeds. The worst part is the traffic on the first 10 miles of Sike's ordeal. You almost always get stuck behind trucks trying to pass other trucks that are creeping along at 30 MPH on the long uphill grade. The first long uphill is the worst as it is only 2 lane. I would imagine he did not try to call 911 until he hit the 3 lane section which is much easier traveling. And uphill, which would have slowed him down by the fact that a Prius is gutless even at WOT. The problem is Cell service is not great out there. That explains his not having good reception. Once a CHP was dispatched there was no need to continue talking to someone in Sacramento.
Given Sikes background I could believe he is capable of running a scam. However we are also lead to believe that the Prius has according to Toyota a fail safe brake over ride. According to Toyota, the first thing that happens when you touch the brake pedal is regen is started to charge the battery and power to the wheels is removed. For Sikes to even get the brake pads to come into play he had to push hard on the brakes.
According to the CHP account he did not slow down until he was going up hill with both the regular brakes and the emergency brakes pushed. When he slowed to 55 he pushed the ignition off and rolled to a stop.
I think from all indications, the Toyota FAITHFUL are giving this guy way more credit than he deserves.
I have to keep my foot firmly on the brake at stop lights to compensate for the surges that are NORMAL with Toyota vehicles.
Well, sadly, there comes a time when we all become to old to drive....It takes a special person to admit they are having problems coping with necessary everyday driving skills.
In Toyotas account no mention is made of 250. From the Toyota press release:
• There were no diagnostic trouble codes found in the power management computer, nor was the dashboard malfunction indicator light activated. The hybrid self-diagnostic system did show evidence of numerous, rapidly repeated on-and- off applications of both the accelerator and the brake pedals.
So did WSJ and others grab DQs 250 number and run with it?
"* three quarters of a million dollars in debt (motive) * owes on a Prius and see an opening to get a free car * "a history of items in his possession being stolen and him filing for insurance claims" * owned and operated a web site called AdultSwingLife.com (nice ethics) * neighbors say he's in porn as well * Corvette Owners Club of San Diego member claims neutral would "flip the car"? * talks to 911 forever, yet cannot hear the command to take it out of gear * 250 brake-throttle cycles in one trip * NHTSA says with brake pedal down his car slowed in tests * WSJ says "Prius also did not show wear consistent with having been applied at full force at high speeds for a long period" * WSJ also said "brakes may have been applied intermittently"
Toyota owners watch out! The Toyota Secret Police is going to dig out every little dirty secret you have in your personal life and tell the whole world about it and use their technical test results in deceptive presentations to make the Toyota lackeys think you are a big liar if you dare to complain about Sudden Unintended Acceleration of any Toyota vehicles.
So if your Prius or any Toyota vehicle accelerates out of control but nobody get hurt or killed, you may have to lie about stepping on the gas pedal by mistake, so that you don't end up like Mr.Sikes on the Toyota most wanted list.
Well, sadly, there comes a time when we all become to old to drive.
That may be. However my other two vehicles are not so prone to erratic behavior. Does your Toyota surge or do you own one? Easy for you to deflect from the reality of Toyota's faults isn't it. What can I say. You should have bought Ford stock instead of TM.
PS Our 90+ WW2 vet friend still drives his old Caddy around town. Rarely hits the Freeways. Thankfully Caddy does not have UA issues like Toyota.
>The Toyota Secret Police is going to dig out every little dirty secret you have in your personal life and tell the whole world about it and use their technical test results in deceptive presentations to make the Toyota lackeys think
I keep waiting for lexus-toyota to spoon out dirt on the California State Highway patrolman. Surely they or Exponent have found something they can present as negative... Odd they focus on a guy who is already in debt and can't retaliate. After all, the highway patrolman's accident is the real incendiary event in getting this ball rolling after 9 years of complaints.
Oh oh! I was thinking about buying an Avalon, but Toyota accused me of theft. Apparently they dug up some dirt about me dating back to 1971. I guess they found out about that fig newton I snatched from the cookie jar when I was six.
Do you have an earlier time than post 7089 on this thread for the use of the number 250 in speculating how a Prius could be fooled into going fast with the brakes applied? Or are you just giving your opinion in big fat letters?
why cant it spit out a number? why, the brakes were pumped "as many as 250 times" it seems a little strange to me that this super computer (which up till now has not been able to tell them a single thing), now that they have a less than ideal witness all of a sudden the computer starts spitting out data, well at least half data "as many as 250 times" that number is completley useless without a "minimum number of times" estimate to go with it :lemon: :confuse:
The burden of proof belongs to the porn exec/wife swapping scam artist.
The Associated Press reports that NHTSA sent a memo to congress that said "it would not be feasibly possible that Sikes' gas pedal was stuck and that he was slamming on the brakes".
That means the engine power was on even though the brakes were pressed hard. That means the override system on the Prius that prevents the engine from having power for acceleration while the brake pedal is pressed hard failed during the incident.
You are making assumptions that simply aren't true or proveable to make your points.
Earlier you assumed the brake pads were "normal" thickness before this event began for Sikes. I propose the brake pads were worn out before this whole thing started. Afterall, he's had the car for years! Unless you can show me a receipt where he got new brake pads installed in February or March of 2010, I think the chances of you being right are less than my winning the Lotto tomorrow.
I agree that someone might try to pump the brakes if pressing on them steadily doesn't work. I agree they might try it several times, but not 250, that is absolutely outrageous. Why would you stop pumping the brakes? For the same reason you stopped pressing them fully and steadily; it wasn't working. You wouldn't try something that isn't working 250 times, you just wouldn't, or human instinct would be to floor the brakes and just leave it in that position while you try other things.
Also, you can get the brake lights to go on with a super light tap to the brakes, there is no proof the brakes were ever pressed hard. However, investigators for the WSJ have pointed out the evidence shows the brakes were pressed lightly, proving my point about him hitting the brakes lightly so as to not cause noticeable decceleration, and then hitting the gas hard to more than recover any lost speed. The Prius is an anemic engine and drivetrain, and is NOT a powerful car as you would like to believe.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
You disagree with the facts. Perhaps that why you like to agree with Toyota. The 911 operator did ask "is there a way for you to get the car out of gear."
Okay, so it appears you are right about the "take it out of gear comment by the 911 operator, however, I disagree with your interpretation of that statement. I find "take it out of gear," and "put it in neutral" to mean entirely the exact same thing to any average human and especially to one experiencing UA.
Obviously, even a bozo would know take it out of gear means to do something with the tranny. It doesn't take much IQ to put 1 and 1 together and figure neutral is the best gear to choose when having UA. Any gear is preferable to D during UA.
Also, I live in SD county so I am familiar with that stretch of I8, and let me tell you, it is not WINDING in any way, shape, or form. Relatively or unrelatively, it is not winding. Yes, a Prius going 90 is pushing it, but even a mediocre driver could run the course at 90 to 95 without ever squealing the tires (dry sunny day, as it was when Sikes did this hoax).
If you want an example of a winding road take the highway up to Palomar mountain.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I keep waiting for lexus-toyota to spoon out dirt on the California State Highway patrolman. Surely they or Exponent have found something they can present as negative... Odd they focus on a guy who is already in debt and can't retaliate. After all, the highway patrolman's accident is the real incendiary event in getting this ball rolling after 9 years of complaints.
As I've said before, you can't smear someone unless they've lived a life that is smearable. The CHP officer that died probably was not a "bad cop" and probably lived a good honest life, unlike Sikes.
Also, I don't think Saylor is in much of a position to fight back, he's dead. I think Sikes can fight back much more than the dead CHP officer can.
Maybe it's the ghost of Saylor causing the SUA in the Prius of Sikes?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
You've been asked and conveniently ignored that. Source please, since you guys keep attacking the 250 number even though sources were named.
I am saying the source was right here on this thread. Pulled out of a posters imagination. See post 7090. Then find an earlier link to that phony number and I will be satisfied that DQ did not make it up. It is not in the Toyota Newsroom report. That says multiple times. My guess is someone picked up on our posters number and it became fact. When it is anything but fact.
“Toyota revealed that the brakes had been applied some 250 times during the episode. At the speed and distance reported, that’s an average of once every four seconds,” noted Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing at Edmunds.com Inc. “Generally speaking, it is possible to push on the brake lightly and not engage the brake override system. But that type of braking is inconsistent with someone wanting to stop in an emergency situation.”
Comments
We do? When did NHTSA say that? And I thought you didn't trust the "so-called experts" at the agency. You can't have it both ways.
About those power lines, how do you explain that the EMF interference, if even a valid argument, lasted for 30 miles? Do the lines run parallel to the freeway or simply cross it at various locations? The only EMF interference from power lines I've ever noticed is static in AM radio signals only when you're directly under the lines.
Talk about grasping for straws! :surprise:
That conclusion would have required something like this "I saw the brake lights remain steadily on for over 30 seconds, and the vehicle did not deccelerate during those 30 seconds. Unfortunately for you, the CHP officer said no such thing.
He said he saw brake lights (could have been as short as 1 nanosecond)
He said he smelled brakes burning (could have been carried over from overheated brakes previously abused 2 minutes before the officer opened his nose).
Next!
Now their recorders can store data for 30 minutes of inputs? Amazing.
Ah, someone else who didn't read the whole story. Two different animals -- it's NOT the EDR in the Prius!
The Prius sounds like one easy step too, a one-step procedure with a delay of a couple seconds.
Unless of course the shift lever is spring loaded to go back into drive unless you HOLD it in neutral for a couple seconds. Is that the case? In either event, if you own the vehicle, you should know how to operate it; that should be a motor vehicle law.
In any case, the lighted display in the instrument panel will clearly show which gear you are in.
The Park position has its own dedicated pushbutton directly above the shifter.
(All comments refer to the 2004-09 models. I believe the '10 model has the same setup.)
Then why call 911 in the first place if you already know you don't have the capability of doing more than 1 thing at a time? If you can't register and listen to the 911 operator, what was the point and purpose of the phone call? Companionship?
The 911 operator asked if there was a way he could take the car out of gear.
I disagree. I believe I heard a portion of the 911 tape where the operator very clearly said "have you tried putting it in neutral; put it in neutral."
It is apparent that Mr. Sikes was unable to handle the phone call and control the speeding Prius on the winding stretch of interstate 8 simultaneously,
Using the adjective "winding stretch" to describe that portion of Interstate 8 is a BIG, BIG stretch. It is relatively straight, with mostly an uphill light gradual incline, and the curves are very low in degree and magnitude. There are no curves where the 65 or 70 MPH Speed limit is required to be lowered due to the sharpness of a turn, since there are no sharp turns.
Why didn't she turn the car onto the road rather than go straight into the wall? Sounds fishy to me. Another incompetent driver. Oh wait, let me guess, the SUA episodes cause the engine, accelerator, transmission, steering wheel, power steering, braking and ignition systems to all fail simultaneously. All these different and separate systems must all fail simultaneously for SUA to be real and true; unless of course, it's all driver error.
I disagree with you there, I think this Prius spring loading tranny stick feature is COUNTER-intuitive. If you accidentally select neutral, you'll know it when your engine revs up and all you have to do is put it back in D. No reason to have a spring loaded timer.
However, I put 100% of the liability on the driver of the vehicle to read their owner's manual and know how to operate their vehicle that they own. This includes "how to shift to neutral."
So then we both agree he made the WRONG decision in calling 911 in the first place?
I read it. Don't think you have a clue of what you are talking about. There are hundreds of UA with the Prius since Gen2 launched. This is the first time I have heard that any thing but a computer reset was done, and the customer shoved out the door. If they recreated the Sikes Prius, they should be able to create all cases and tell if the person had their foot on the brake or the gas. The only hoax is what Toyota is trying to pull on the weak minded American public.
PS
There are 100s of cases of Prius towed to the dealer. So that excuse is not valid.
I don't. And that is one of the reasons. They dropped the investigation when their buddies that now work for Toyota convinced them it was not a valid test. You can read about it here if you are interested in the truth about Toyota UA.
http://www.nutwooduk.co.uk/downloads/Toyota.doc
The lines cross the freeway just where Sikes testified he stepped on the gas to pass someone. At that point the car kept accelerating. I truly believe I am more interested in what really happened than the Toyota FAITHFUL. :confuse:
First of all, with a stuck gas pedal, every time the driver repeatedly step hard on the brake, the self-diagnostic system may register changing acceleration as pumping of the gas pedal and the go and stop in that trip before the SUD happened may have been included as well. Second, it is also not uncommon for the driver on the freeway in a vehicle with a stuck gas pedal to pump the gas pedal from time to time to see if it can be unstuck. In fact Complaint Number:10303507 VIN : JTDKB20U277... shows that a driver in a Prius with SUD on the freeway did exactly that to free the stuck gas pedal or jar the malfunction throttle back to normal. In the drivers own word: "I KEPT HITTING THE BRAKES AGAIN, AND ALSO PUMPED THE ACCELERATOR TO MAKE SURE IT WASN'T STUCK AND THEN THE CAR STOPPED ACCELERATING."
It is different to have a driver press the gas pedal from time to time to see if it can be unstuck and 250 presses. I'd say thats "time to time to the tenth power!"
Besides, Sikes said the accelerator wasn't stuck and that he pulled up on it to make sure.
Too bad I had already bought a 2007 Camry 4 cylinder to replace my 1998 Corolla and found that it had acceleration hesitation problem while the 6 cylinder one has unintended acceleration problem. I traded it in just after about a month when I found out on the internet that Toyota refused to admit there was a problem and the dealers told complaining customers that the Camry has a computer that learns the driving habit of the driver and that the Camry performed as designed.
It turns out that 2007 Camry has the most complaint related to speed control on the NHTSA website among all model years of Camry - mostly about sudden unintended acceleration.
Good suggestion for buy the 2010 Malibu instead of the 2010 Camry.
Don't want to become a scapegoat for Toyota which does not want to admit SUA problem other than floor mat entrapment and sticky pedal.
The data from the diagnostics test indicated that the accelerator and the brake had been rapidly pressed, alternately back and forth, 250 times," said Mike Michels, vice president of corporate communications for Toyota Motor Sales USA.
It is possible that a electronic glitch on the computer caused the throttle on the Prius to become wide open even though the gas pedal was not really stuck. In such situation, Mr. Sikes would think the pedal was stuck and tried to unstuck it to no avail.
The fact that the data from the diagnostics test indicated that the accelerator and the brake had been rapidly pressed, alternately back and forth, 250 times during the incident but no one on the freeway nor the CHP officer reported seeing the Prius accelerating and decelerating in rapid succession only points to the likely scenario that the throttle was open so wide and the force of acceleration so powerful that pressing the overheated brakes repeatedly would cause no significant sign of deceleration.
If the unintended acceleration had happened only within a short distance when Mr. Sikes had to avoid hitting a slow vehicle ahead, of course he would have pressed hard and steadily on the brake pedal instead of pumping it. However, that was not the case. The unintended acceleration happened over a long distance on the freeway. So it was likely that Mr. Sikes pumped the brake repeatedly in a desperate attempt to stop the vehicle.
It’s basics human psychology. If pressing hard steadily on the brake pedal doesn’t stop a runaway vehicle with long open road ahead while the driver does not know or is afraid to shift the gear to neutral at high speed, it is normal for the driver to pump the brake pedal repeatedly to see if it would somehow make the brakes work again.
A complaint on the NHTSA website ( Complaint Number:10303507 VIN : JTDKB20U277...) by a driver who experienced sudden unintended acceleration on a 2007 Prius with long open road ahead also mentioned pumping the brake pedal and even the gas pedal in a desperate attempt to slow down or stop the vehicle. The driver stopped pumping after a couple of times only because it worked. The car stopped accelerating.
Had the unintended acceleration continued after pumping the pedals a couple of times, I see no reason why the driver would have stopped pumping.
So did Mr. Sikes pump the brake pedal only or did he pump both the brake and gas pedal? If he had pumped the brake pedal only or mostly, there is still a possibility the computer may have recorded the data as alternate pumping of the gas and brake pedal because when the brake pedal is pressed, the computer may record an override or canceling out of the accelerating signal while the throttle continued to be wide open due to the computer glitch.
People in a runaway vehicle on the freeway react differently. Some would keep calm, control the brake and shift gear to neutral. Some are so frantic that they just concentrate on steering the vehicle to avoid hitting the other slow vehicles and keep the vehicle from veering off the road and pump the brake and gas pedals to see if it would stop the acceleration while not knowing or forgetting or too scared to shift the gear to neutral even when asked by a 911 operator “Is there a way for you to take the car out of gear?” ( The 911 operator should have said “ Shift the gear to neutral” instead of asking a question without mentioning the words “gear” and “neutral”. The 911 operator did not use a precise and commanding way to prompt the driver into shifting gear to neutral. She only put a question mark into a frantic mind that needed answer, not question.) Unfortunately, that was the kind of nervous driver Mr. Sikes was. That’s why he succeeded to stop the car only when prompted by a CHP officer who TOLD him to use the emergence brake as well as the foot brake to stop the car. When the Prius slowed down with both brakes on , Mr. Sikes then felt safe enough to turn off the engine.
It is absurd and foolish for the Toyota lackeys to insinuate that Mr. Sikes could somehow wear out the front brake pads completely and the rear brake pads to 0.02 inch thin just by pumping the gas and the brake pedals alternately 250 times on that stretch of freeway while showing no sign of acceleration and deceleration in rapid succession.
Unless Toyota is able to duplicate the same wear out conditions using brake pads of normal thickness and by pumping the gas and brake pedals alternately about 250 times on the same stretch of freeway without showing sign of acceleration and deceleration in rapid succession , the Toyota lackeys have nothing to support their conspiracy theory at all.
I'm not scared to drive because of other Toyotas on the road. However, I would be very scared to drive a Toyota with numerous complaints of unintended acceleration and not being able to stop by pressing hard on the brake. There are numerous complains on the NHTSA website that Toyota unintended acceleration often happens while the brake fails to stop the vehicle.
I don't want to end up like the scapegoat who got 8 years in jail because Toyota wants to cover up the fact that the Toyota model year in the accident, a 1996 Camry, has numerous complaints of unintended acceleration (probably due to faulty cruise control) on the NHTSA website.
http://dailybail.com/headlines/toyota-defense-might-rescue-wrongly-jailed-minnes- ota-man-hea.html
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/
As someone who had been a professional driver, I don't think the man would have stepped on the gas pedal instead of the brake on the freeway OFF RAMP because while a driver is on the freeway, his foot is on the gas. When he reaches the off ramp, shifting the foot to the brake would come naturally. Mistaking the gas for the brake in such situation is extremely unlikely.
Also the short distance on the off ramp ended up with a red light would make it very difficult to shift gear to neutral in time to overcome the unintended acceleration and to avoid crashing into vehicles stopping at the red light.
Stepping hard on the brake with the engine having unintended acceleration in such a short distance on the off ramp may not be intense enough to produce burning brakes as proof that the driver did not mistake the gas for the brake. So the prosecution may insist that there is no proof you have used the brake.
Off ramp is surely one of the worst locations to have sudden unintended acceleration.
Driving a Toyota model having numerous complaints of unintended acceleration may destroy your whole life even when it is not your fault. Toyota doesn't care.
2. It's absolutely amazing that toyota-lexus now says they have lots of data stored in the recording devices but those deviced didn't know a thing on the high-priced vehicle that Officer Saylor and family were killed by. Indeed, the record only lasted 1 second or so, much shorter than GM's data storage from what I read. Absolutely amazing.
3. Is not it possible, and even likely, that a computer system that has gone haywire, could write a record to the now capable lexus-toyota recording device that shows alternating application of full throttle and then brake. Let's face it, a computer system that has reacted to some kind of extraneous effect and loses its mind, as evidenced by years of NHSTA records, is not likely to be operating correctly in its outputs.
The ball is in toyota-lexus' court along with that of Exponent, their PR firm, which seems to have been working harder than an NBC operative in Alaska looking for dirt on Palin the day after she was named a candidate!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You got a good point. I think that's the reason why the driver of a 2007 Prius complained about not being able to turn off the engine and shift to neutral at certain speed:
Complaint Number:10304345 VIN : JTDKB20U977...
ON OCTOBER 19, 2009 I WAS DRIVING SOUTH BOUND ON THE I-5 WHEN THE GAS PEDAL ON MY 2007 TOYOTA PRIUS GOT STUCK AND IT WASN'T THE FLOOR MAT. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A FLOOR MAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE MAJOR PROBLEM IS ON THE PRIUS THE PUSH START BUTTON FAILED SO YOU COULDN'T TURN OF THE VEHICLE AND WHEN YOU TRIED TO PUT IT IN NEUTRAL IT WOULD FAIL (NOT SURE WHY), I AM ASSUMING DO THE SPEED YOU ARE GOING THE COMPUTER DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO PUT IT NEUTRAL OR TURN IT OFF. *TR
Now the bad news is that NHTSA has no software engineers to analyze Toyota computer data on runaway Toyotas.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1042836_nhtsa-has-no-software-enginee- rs-or-ees-to-analyze-toyotas
Without a capable independent agent to take part in the investigation, Toyota pretty much can cover up whatever they want involving computer problems in their vehicles.
My point is if while the CHP officer saw the brake lights on and smelled the burning brakes, he did not mention seeing the Prius decelerate at the same time. That means the engine power was on even though the brakes were pressed hard. That means the override system on the Prius that prevents the engine from having power for acceleration while the brake pedal is pressed hard failed during the incident. So it was a malfunctioned Prius. The unintended acceleration was real. What hoax are you babbling about?
So you think Mr. Sikes has intentionally worn down the brake pads of his Prius to almost nothing the day before the incident in order to play a hoax.
Wow, you have very far out imagination.
If Mr. Sikes had bought huge sum of life insurance with his wife as benificiary and he died in the runaway Toyota that crashed, then I think you may be on the right track.
Now Mr. Sike is alive and he just want you Toyota lackeys to leave him and his wife alone. Your imagination has become paranoiac.
No, you did not say that and no one said you did. What you said was that some poster simply made up the fact that the brakes were pumped 250 times.
When faced with the fact that you were wrong you are trying to change and deflect from your original statement. Are you used to getting away with this stuff?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Your arguments are far too logical for many here to comprehend. I am waiting for the computer readout on the 76 year old ladies Prius back East that ran into a block wall. That should tell the tale of what happened. I think the whole business of brake on, brake off is a smoke screen by Toyota. They know it cannot be traced after they drove the car with further tests. Just a damage control story concocted by one of their PR firms. They don't even keep their stories straight. One time it is the brake was hit 250 times. Then it was the brake, throttle alternately. C'mon Toyota you are not convincing anyone but the few faithfuls. Toyota has a long culture of lying and deceiving.
Mr. Sikes did not think he could not do multi-tasks on a runaway car before calling 911. It was the poor reply of the 911 operator, the worsening reception of the phone call and the arriving of the CHP officer that made him decide not to listen to the 911 operator anymore but concentrate on controlling the vehicle while waiting for the help of the CHP officer.
"I disagree. I believe I heard a portion of the 911 tape where the operator very clearly said "have you tried putting it in neutral; put it in neutral."
You disagree with the facts. Perhaps that why you like to agree with Toyota.
The 911 operator did ask "is there a way for you to get the car out of gear."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOMcmPNbpZY&feature=related
I have given you the proof . Now you show me the proof that the 911 operator did say " put it in neutral". Your believe in things without proof. That's your problem.
"Using the adjective "winding stretch" to describe that portion of Interstate 8 is a BIG, BIG stretch. It is relatively straight, with mostly an uphill light gradual incline, and the curves are very low in degree and magnitude. There are no curves where the 65 or 70 MPH Speed limit is required to be lowered due to the sharpness of a turn, since there are no sharp turns."
Winding is a relative term. When that stretch has more curves than other strech of the same freeway, then it is winding relative to the straighter portion of the same freeway. Also when speed limit is 65 to 70 MPH but the runaway Prius was doing over 90 MPH, the curved road would appear to be more winding to a speeding car than a car in normal speed.
"Why didn't she turn the car onto the road rather than go straight into the wall? Sounds fishy to me. Another incompetent driver. Oh wait, let me guess, the SUA episodes cause the engine, accelerator, transmission, steering wheel, power steering, braking and ignition systems to all fail simultaneously. All these different and separate systems must all fail simultaneously for SUA to be real and true; unless of course, it's all driver error."
I think any claim that a Toyota has unintended acceleration would sound fishy to you. Any lie that Toyota says to cover up unintended acceleration of their vehicles would be music to your ears.
Days before Toyota grabbed the idea of alternate brake and throttle sequence, which I do not believe is true. A FanBoy here posted that very number of 250 times hitting the brakes and throttle. Odd coincidence wouldn't you say. It was his fantasy of a hoax perpetrated by Sikes. I am looking for the truth on SUA which is happening at an alarming rate with Toyota vehicles. I don't believe you are that interested in the Truth. Do you even own a Toyota that is under recall? I am not convinced that my Toyota is that safe even though it is not under that recall umbrella. I have to keep my foot firmly on the brake at stop lights to compensate for the surges that are NORMAL with Toyota vehicles.
Really? Well how about directing me to that post if you don't mind. It should not be that hard for you to find it.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I drive much of the route in this incident every time I go shopping. It is gentle curves and steep uphill and downhill stretches. I would be surprised if a Prius could get to 90 MPH on the uphill parts. It is all posted 70 MPH. The downhill sections you could get a bicycle up to high speeds. The worst part is the traffic on the first 10 miles of Sike's ordeal. You almost always get stuck behind trucks trying to pass other trucks that are creeping along at 30 MPH on the long uphill grade. The first long uphill is the worst as it is only 2 lane. I would imagine he did not try to call 911 until he hit the 3 lane section which is much easier traveling. And uphill, which would have slowed him down by the fact that a Prius is gutless even at WOT. The problem is Cell service is not great out there. That explains his not having good reception. Once a CHP was dispatched there was no need to continue talking to someone in Sacramento.
Given Sikes background I could believe he is capable of running a scam. However we are also lead to believe that the Prius has according to Toyota a fail safe brake over ride. According to Toyota, the first thing that happens when you touch the brake pedal is regen is started to charge the battery and power to the wheels is removed. For Sikes to even get the brake pads to come into play he had to push hard on the brakes.
According to the CHP account he did not slow down until he was going up hill with both the regular brakes and the emergency brakes pushed. When he slowed to 55 he pushed the ignition off and rolled to a stop.
I think from all indications, the Toyota FAITHFUL are giving this guy way more credit than he deserves.
Well, sadly, there comes a time when we all become to old to drive....It takes a special person to admit they are having problems coping with necessary everyday driving skills.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Here's what I think happened:
1.The ECM indicated that during the incident the brake and the accelerator had been alternately depressed 250 times.
2. Sikes is a disgruntled Toyota owner. (among other things)
3. He caused the brake failure on purpose and faked the whole thing.
Conclusion: Balloon boy redux.
Regards, DQ
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/7089#MSG7089
In Toyotas account no mention is made of 250. From the Toyota press release:
• There were no diagnostic trouble codes found in the power management computer, nor was the dashboard malfunction indicator light activated. The hybrid self-diagnostic system did show evidence of numerous, rapidly repeated on-and- off applications of both the accelerator and the brake pedals.
So did WSJ and others grab DQs 250 number and run with it?
What exactly is a Toyota lackey anyway :confuse:
* owes on a Prius and see an opening to get a free car
* "a history of items in his possession being stolen and him filing for insurance claims"
* owned and operated a web site called AdultSwingLife.com (nice ethics)
* neighbors say he's in porn as well
* Corvette Owners Club of San Diego member claims neutral would "flip the car"?
* talks to 911 forever, yet cannot hear the command to take it out of gear
* 250 brake-throttle cycles in one trip
* NHTSA says with brake pedal down his car slowed in tests
* WSJ says "Prius also did not show wear consistent with having been applied at full force at high speeds for a long period"
* WSJ also said "brakes may have been applied intermittently"
Toyota owners watch out!
The Toyota Secret Police is going to dig out every little dirty secret you have in your personal life and tell the whole world about it and use their technical test results in deceptive presentations to make the Toyota lackeys think you are a big liar if you dare to complain about Sudden Unintended Acceleration of any Toyota vehicles.
So if your Prius or any Toyota vehicle accelerates out of control but nobody get hurt or killed, you may have to lie about stepping on the gas pedal by mistake, so that you don't end up like Mr.Sikes on the Toyota most wanted list.
I pity the Toyota owners.
That may be. However my other two vehicles are not so prone to erratic behavior. Does your Toyota surge or do you own one? Easy for you to deflect from the reality of Toyota's faults isn't it. What can I say. You should have bought Ford stock instead of TM.
PS
Our 90+ WW2 vet friend still drives his old Caddy around town. Rarely hits the Freeways. Thankfully Caddy does not have UA issues like Toyota.
1. someone who does menial tasks or runs errands for another
2 : a servile follower :
Or to put it more contextually. Someone that follows blindly without questioning their leader.
I keep waiting for lexus-toyota to spoon out dirt on the California State Highway patrolman. Surely they or Exponent have found something they can present as negative... Odd they focus on a guy who is already in debt and can't retaliate. After all, the highway patrolman's accident is the real incendiary event in getting this ball rolling after 9 years of complaints.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Gary,
Please quit ignoring that this was reported by EDMUNDS, not a "FANBOY".
See post 7185, which you missed.
DQ posted his Wishful THINKING on the Sikes incident long before Edmunds posted that article.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/7089#MSG7089
The Associated Press reports that NHTSA sent a memo to congress that said "it would not be feasibly possible that Sikes' gas pedal was stuck and that he was slamming on the brakes".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxho_QPQoZ0&feature=related
Show me where he says the brake lights remained on.
You've been asked and conveniently ignored that. Source please, since you guys keep attacking the 250 number even though sources were named.
It's not like the CHP followed him and stayed behind to observe the brake lights, he pulled alongside and used his speaker to issue commands.
You are making assumptions that simply aren't true or proveable to make your points.
Earlier you assumed the brake pads were "normal" thickness before this event began for Sikes. I propose the brake pads were worn out before this whole thing started. Afterall, he's had the car for years! Unless you can show me a receipt where he got new brake pads installed in February or March of 2010, I think the chances of you being right are less than my winning the Lotto tomorrow.
I agree that someone might try to pump the brakes if pressing on them steadily doesn't work. I agree they might try it several times, but not 250, that is absolutely outrageous. Why would you stop pumping the brakes? For the same reason you stopped pressing them fully and steadily; it wasn't working. You wouldn't try something that isn't working 250 times, you just wouldn't, or human instinct would be to floor the brakes and just leave it in that position while you try other things.
Also, you can get the brake lights to go on with a super light tap to the brakes, there is no proof the brakes were ever pressed hard. However, investigators for the WSJ have pointed out the evidence shows the brakes were pressed lightly, proving my point about him hitting the brakes lightly so as to not cause noticeable decceleration, and then hitting the gas hard to more than recover any lost speed. The Prius is an anemic engine and drivetrain, and is NOT a powerful car as you would like to believe.
"I noticed his vehicle drastically slowing down to about 50-55"
Funny how when there's a cop with you the brakes suddenly work.
Exactly, it's easy to ride the brakes. A member of a Corvette club would know that, too.
The 911 operator did ask "is there a way for you to get the car out of gear."
Okay, so it appears you are right about the "take it out of gear comment by the 911 operator, however, I disagree with your interpretation of that statement. I find "take it out of gear," and "put it in neutral" to mean entirely the exact same thing to any average human and especially to one experiencing UA.
Obviously, even a bozo would know take it out of gear means to do something with the tranny. It doesn't take much IQ to put 1 and 1 together and figure neutral is the best gear to choose when having UA. Any gear is preferable to D during UA.
Also, I live in SD county so I am familiar with that stretch of I8, and let me tell you, it is not WINDING in any way, shape, or form. Relatively or unrelatively, it is not winding. Yes, a Prius going 90 is pushing it, but even a mediocre driver could run the course at 90 to 95 without ever squealing the tires (dry sunny day, as it was when Sikes did this hoax).
If you want an example of a winding road take the highway up to Palomar mountain.
As I've said before, you can't smear someone unless they've lived a life that is smearable. The CHP officer that died probably was not a "bad cop" and probably lived a good honest life, unlike Sikes.
Also, I don't think Saylor is in much of a position to fight back, he's dead. I think Sikes can fight back much more than the dead CHP officer can.
Maybe it's the ghost of Saylor causing the SUA in the Prius of Sikes?
I am saying the source was right here on this thread. Pulled out of a posters imagination. See post 7090. Then find an earlier link to that phony number and I will be satisfied that DQ did not make it up. It is not in the Toyota Newsroom report. That says multiple times. My guess is someone picked up on our posters number and it became fact. When it is anything but fact.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/7089#MSG7089
READ THIS
“Toyota revealed that the brakes had been applied some 250 times during the episode. At the speed and distance reported, that’s an average of once every four seconds,” noted Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing at Edmunds.com Inc. “Generally speaking, it is possible to push on the brake lightly and not engage the brake override system. But that type of braking is inconsistent with someone wanting to stop in an emergency situation.”