Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2010
    Maybe they heard the number on TV. Why assume they made it up?

    And do you honestly believe it's a pure coincidence that the numbers match exactly?

    250, yeah, that's the first number I'd pull out of my head if I were making things up.

    Give him a break.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    IT.
    Was.
    Not.
    Made.
    Up.

    See posts 7185 and 7258.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks, I knew a source would come up sooner or later.

    it is possible to push on the brake lightly and not engage the brake override system

    Riding the brakes, like we said. Now there's a source to go with it.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Isn't it possible that poster was simply the first to hear the news reports regarding the finding of over 250 pushes of the throttle and brake alternately?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2010
    Are you two for real. Have you looked at post 7090 which was a day before the Edmund's report or any other report. Sheesh you guys are slow. :sick:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Post an earlier report or link.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But if it were wrong they would issue a correction.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe he heard it on the news.

    Again, do you think he made up the 250 number and then official sources came up with the same number by coincidence?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2010
    Toyota did the supposed data dump. Show me where they claimed 250 alternate brake accelerator depressions. It is not in their news room. Until you guys come up with something earlier than post 7090. It is a phony number posted by someone speculating what may have happened.

    PS
    I don't think it was coincidence at all. It was lazy reporting. And a number that sounded good.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    edited March 2010
    Still trying to squirm off the hook rather than admit you were wrong I see. Read the report. The 250 number was a direct quote from a Toyota Exec.

    Does it sound even halfway rational, even to you, that the poster made up the fact that the brakes were pumped 250 times before the news report came out that verified that number? Obviously he had read the report.

    Squirm all you want, everyone can see that you have been BUSTED !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    I'm going to assume he saw it on TV. The news can be reported much faster on TV than it takes some web programmer to put it onto the web and post it online.

    It's possible he googled it the minute it came out, or it is more likely he saw it on TV or heard it on the radio. It's not like he stated the number a week before it came out in the online news sources; less than 24 hours is your problem?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Nice try on both counts. But No cigar. You are stating opinion. Not linking an exec making that statement. If it is on the news it will have a link to a video. That video must be dated prior to March 15th 2010 at 12:52 PM to be valid. Go for it. You post it and I will admit being wrong. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Post 7090 said it was 250 and that's accurate.

    What exactly are you questioning?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Best part is when his wife says "Our careers are ruined!"

    What career? On AdultSwingLife.com? :D
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    Ha, ha, that's cute! Bright little guy. :D

    As Mark Twain said, "There are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics."

    Concerning Toyota's problems - I wonder if Honda and other Japanese car companies have been cutting corners to cut costs, too? The Japanese economy is in terrible shape.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The M in GMA stands for MORNING, for those skeptics.

    DQ's post was March 15 at 12:52pm.

    I'm pretty sure GMA is finished by that time.

    So he did watch in on TV.

    Thank you, YouTube. :shades:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary, like the previous poster said:

    Not reasonable or possible that a random poster "invented" the 250 number, then EDMUND'S used it in a story later as a quote from Toyota !!!

    Get REAL my main man !!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    As mentioned earlier, NHTSA sent a memo to congress that said "it would not be feasibly possible that Sikes' gas pedal was stuck and that he was slamming on the brakes".

    They felt confident enough to put that in writing.

    On that same GMA broadcast, Sikes is heard repeating this quote not once but twice:

    I was STANDING on the pedal

    So now you have to believe NHTSA is flat out lying to side with Sikes.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It was on Good Morning America that morning, March 15. The post came after noon.

    There's your source.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    Right. If you do a little "google search" you will find out about this guy's credibility. Before you blame Toyota on ANYTHING you should read about Mr. Sykes!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Busted Gary, let's have that mea culpa !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2010
    We're looking for a story on or before 3/15? I must be missing something - there are at least a dozen news articles on 3/15 talking about 250 pumps. The stories on 3/14 don't mention 250 pumps but say that Toyota couldn't reproduce the conditions that Sikes reported.

    Boston.com (dated 3/16, but refers to Toyota's report "yesterday").

    Another from CNET stamped 3/15. Ditto, BBC.

    So, why are we off on this tangent? You guys lost me a dozen posts ago.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    They are attempting to prove a point as to the source of the 250 pumps.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    edited March 2010
    This new readout done on the Prius. Is this something new or something stashed by Toyota? Seems to me they have been holding out again.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The comment was initially made by Toyota Motor Sales spokesman Mike Michels, according to news reports.

    ABC News

    Don't ask me if Michels is on loan from Exponent.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    edited March 2010
    You got me too. Just another one of Gary's conditions that we had to prove to get him to fess up. Stay tuned for his next excuse !!

    "Oh what a twisted web we weave......" :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,142
    edited March 2010
    So, let me get this straight about Sikes.

    -He says he suffered UA in his Prius
    -Toyota says "impossible"
    -Then, someone did some sort of investigation on Sikes, painting him as unreliable because of financial woes (who undertook that investigation and then leaked it to the press?).
    -Toyota says Sikes only pushed "lightly" on the brakes
    -Police officer says he believes Sikes was on the brakes hard. Physical evidence of the brakes themselves confirms it
    -Toyota says the recorder showed at least 250 presses of the brake/accelerator during this ordeal (if so, why didn't any of those activate the brake over ride Toyota states is installed?)
    -NTSA says hard to reproduce any of the UA incidents, and is still investigating (using what data? Toyota's?. Toyota still contends they remedied them already
    -Sikes' lawyer says he has no intention of suing Toyota, which removes the alleged fraud some say he was trying to perpetrate
    -State Farm says they've had an awful lot of Toyota accidents, much more than usual, because of the issue with Toyotas

    That about sums it up, I think. Hmmmmmm.....who has more to lose here? Toyota, just maybe?
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Steve wrote:

    So, why are we off on this tangent? You guys lost me a dozen posts ago.

    The answer is because Gary did not believe DQ, so Gary wrote:

    Post an earlier report or link.

    Now that he has FOUR sources maybe he'll let it go.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    -Toyota says "impossible"

    No, they never said that, they said they would investigate.

    NHTSA said he could not have been on the brakes hard in writing in a report to Congress. It was not Toyota.

    -Toyota says Sikes only pushed "lightly" on the brakes

    Again, no. They have not said anything about what Sikes did, in fact they have shown remarkable restraint. You're quoting so now it's your turn to name a source, please?

    Police officer says he believes Sikes was on the brakes hard

    Where did you read that? Source? He said he saw brake lights, nothing about hard, how would he even know?

    Physical evidence of the brakes themselves confirms it

    Absolutely not true! Light braking wore the material down gradually.

    didn't any of those activate the brake over ride Toyota states is installed?

    Because LIGHT application of the brake does not activate the override. Sikes was braking lightly, else he would have slowed to a stop, like he did at the end when the CHP said he slowed dramatically.

    NTSA says hard to reproduce any of the UA incidents, and is still investigating

    Wrong again. NHTSA already sent a letter to Congress saying it was not feasible for Sikes to have been on the brakes hard.

    Sikes' lawyer says he has no intention of suing Toyota

    Then why does he need a lawyer?
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Member Posts: 177
    Since you don't have access to Google apparently, here... read it again and again until it sinks in. You're welcome. John

    From ABC News...

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-runaway-prius-driver-foot-gas/story?id=1010- 5404

    "According to Toyota, while Sikes' front brakes were worn away, his rear brakes were "fine," and a reading of electronic data from Sikes' car showed that he had applied the brakes and the accelerator alternately at least 250 times."
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Front brakes do wear out a lot faster than rear ones. Considering city driving, I'll replace front brakes on my cars versus rear ones 3:1.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    OK, If the Toyota guy said it prior to DQ posting I will admit to being wrong. It just looked to me like another fantasy post by a wishful Toyota loyalist.

    So it is back to NY and the 76 year old lady. I am sure she is a porn star or has been late on a CC payment at least once.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There are still two Sikes loyalists that can't let go.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't ask me if Michels is on loan from Exponent.

    He is a seasoned veteran of the Toyota liars club.

    Mike Michels
    Vice President, External Communications
    Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

    Mike Michels is vice president, external communications for Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc.

    Michels is responsible for Toyota, Lexus and Scion product and marketing news, corporate business information, media relations, regional public relations activities and online media communications efforts. Prior to assuming his current duties, he was corporate manager of external communications for TMS.

    Since joining Toyota in 1986, Michels has held a variety of positions, including Toyota Division product news manager, media relations manager, product planning manager, corporate publications editor and national public relations manager for Lexus Division. At Lexus, Michels was responsible for news media relations, product and technical press information and community relations activities for the newly established luxury vehicle brand.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2010
    Since people are getting so many parts of this wrong, here's a good summary:

    http://jalopnik.com/5493693/america-you-brought-the-toyota-hoax-on-yourself?skyl- - ine=true&s=i

    Every time the technician placed the gas pedal to the floor and the brake pedal to the floor the engine shut off and the car immediately started to slow down. NHTSA and Toyota field representatives reported the same results with the 2008 Prius owned by Mr. Sikes

    story yesterday from The Wall Street Journal citing three people familiar with the investigation claiming they discovered a pattern of brake wear on the car inconsistent with the account from Mr. Sikes. That's a much more telling data point than even that found in this memo

    it does not appear to be feasibly possible, both electronically and mechanically that his gas pedal was stuck to the floor and he was slamming on the brake at the same time

    seemingly competent Jim Sikes wasn't willing to obey simple commands like "put the car into neutral" out of unstated-at-the-time fears the "car would flip" (highly improbable), or that this was a hoax perpetrated by a financially strapped Mr. Sikes (probable).


    NHTSA needs to stop wasting money investigating this obviously bogus case and focus instead on other cases, especially ones involving injuries.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    OK, If the Toyota guy said it prior to DQ posting I will admit to being wrong.

    I am proud of you brother !! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Aw, Gary, I was hoping for the "DQ must be psychic" defense !!!

    No, really, way to take it like an hombre. Kudos. :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    NHTSA needs to stop wasting money investigating this obviously bogus case and focus instead on other cases, especially ones involving injuries.

    Have they actually investigated any of them. Or do they just look over the shoulder of a Toyota engineer/Technician?

    Something else with the Michel's report on ABC. I did not hear him say the time frame of those 250 alternating gas, brake depressions. Only that 250 is the maximum number stored. Was that over 20 minutes or 20 hours or 20 days? If it is as Toyota claims, a non volatile scratch pad memory. Then it could have been over several days. It obviously does not reset when you shut off the car. Is there a time stamp for each depression? I think Toyota still has questions to answer. I think they are hoping Sikes past along with this bit of new data revelation will quiet the outcry. Now the public should demand a printout of each Hybrid that has been wrecked to have this data for scrutiny by a non Toyota person. And the NHTSA should hire someone competent enough to not be fooled by a quick tech's slight of data move.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Thankfully I don't have a TV, so how was I to know Michels was on TV spewing propaganda? :shades:

    No other excuse to offer. I am still skeptical of anything Toyota says.
  • maple2maple2 Member Posts: 177
    "According to Toyota, while Sikes' front brakes were worn away, his rear brakes were "fine," and a reading of electronic data from Sikes' car showed that he had applied the brakes and the accelerator alternately at least 250 times."

    il ask again since nobody had an answer the first time...this magical box that only toyota has the reader for...the same box that has been completley useless so far(at least according to toyota...unfortunatley they have the only reader so we will have to take their word for it)...here comes the best part...originaly it was"as many as 250 times"...now it is "at least 250 times" why cant they attach an exact number to it? They have the data right? I suspect that the part they left out was could have been as many as 250 times, but could have been as few as 1 time... :confuse: the truth lies somewhere between
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    Would anyone like to know what is maximum unsigned number that can be stored using 8 bits?
    255 awfully close to 250 being reported by Toyota.

    The number is nice but time period would be also interesting.

    Krzys
  • PMOPMO Member Posts: 278
    I would think you are rite but when you count 20,000,000 in the USA on Drugs and 10% 34,000,000 out of work it takes lots of drivers off the road 3 to 4 million homes vacated for non payment. The drive in a Toyota is not scary? Then think of the people that lie about the problems with their car as a Toyota owner. This is bad when such a person of stature would lower him/herself to a mortal This would give new meaning to infidel. This is an enigma but one Toyota has to answer.
  • PMOPMO Member Posts: 278
    Then you stop and think NHTSA what? This indicates that the money spent on the government office is in fact bogus, when it asks people in the UK because, it lacks people with the expertise that is there? I would venture a guess the money spent there is enough to build GM in 16 states and throw in a Chrysler plant free. Then I read Automotive in the NHTSA is less than .10% of the Job in the NHTSA. Would someone out their please enlighten me?
  • PMOPMO Member Posts: 278
    I do not know ,but ABS would kick in at a faster rate than 250 times if you pound on the brakes and the rear lites would not go on and off. This would cause brakes to burn as the CHP was witness to. Toyota has ABS or like ?
  • 2012aveo2012aveo Member Posts: 43
    There are reports of the 2005 through 2007 model year Corolla and Matrix models stalling due to physical faults in the production of the vehicles’ engine control units according to Toyota.
    I always thought the last generation of Corolla's were one of the most reliable models they built. No complaints from 2 co-workers who own a 2007 and 2008 model. Another disappointment, I guess.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    edited March 2010
    I do not know ,but ABS would kick in at a faster rate than 250 times if you pound on the brakes and the rear lites would not go on and off. This would cause brakes to burn as the CHP was witness to. Toyota has ABS or like ?

    But if the ABS kicked in during Sikes' driving of the Prius; it would have come to an immediate halt even with the accelerator fully depressed. EVEN with the brake override "allegedly malfuntioning" (which it wasn't) the Prius would come to a halt relatively quickly as the brakes far outpower the 110 HP Prius.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    edited March 2010
    -Then, someone did some sort of investigation on Sikes, painting him as unreliable because of financial woes (who undertook that investigation and then leaked it to the press?).

    Are you sure the media didn't do their own homework here? It wasn't too hard for people to find Sike's history of corruption out after all, what did it take; about 12 hours?

    Police officer says he believes Sikes was on the brakes hard. Physical evidence of the brakes themselves confirms it

    Pure speculation based on incomplete observational powers and related smells. It doesn't confirm anything other than he smelled hot brakes and saw a brake light. Nothing about "hard" there.

    -Sikes' lawyer says he has no intention of suing Toyota, which removes the alleged fraud some say he was trying to perpetrate

    That doesn't mean he didn't intend to sue Toyota or get a new leased vehicle from them for free. He may have changed his own mind about suing Toyota after he realized what a sham his hoax was.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • nmt001nmt001 Member Posts: 124
    "Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar to airline “black boxes” that could explain crashes blamed on sudden unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts.

    The AP investigation found that Toyota has been inconsistent - and sometimes even contradictory - in revealing exactly what the devices record and don’t record, including critical data about whether the brake or accelerator pedals were depressed at the time of a crash.

    By contrast, most other automakers routinely allow much more open access to information from their event data recorders, commonly known as EDRs.

    AP also found that Toyota:

    - Has frequently refused to provide key information sought by crash victims and survivors.

    - Uses proprietary software in its EDRs. Until this week, there was only a single laptop in the U.S. containing the software needed to read the data following a crash.

    - In some lawsuits, when pressed to provide recorder information Toyota either settled or provided printouts with the key columns blank."
    Source:
    http://www2.newsadvance.com/lna/business/local/article/ap_toyota_keeps_secret_da- ta_that_could_explain_crashes/24738/

    So when data in the Event Data Recorders indicate that Toyota has a faulty product that has taken the lives of its customers, Toyota covers them up, lies about not having the data, refuses to provide them to the suing customers or selectively revealing the data to government investigators.

    Toyota thinks that it is smart to reveal the accelerator and brake data in Mr. Sikes' Prius in its smear campaign against Mr. Sikes.
    Toyota is going to pay for it's wise-guy decision.
    Now Prius owners who got into an accident due to sudden unintended acceleration can no longer be framed by Toyota for hitting the gas pedal by mistake.
  • newdavidqnewdavidq Member Posts: 146
    I confess that I happened to catch what I think was Michels' first interview about the initial investigation by Toyota and the NHSA. I saw it on (gulp!) Fox News Channel.

    I should have sourced the info but I figured it would become common knowlege very quickly.

    If I had made up such a number I probably would have chosen 234, 247, or some number which might have seemed more believable! I think an early measurement of the height of Mt. Everest came out as exactly 29,000 feet but the scientists thought that might seem made up so they added 3 feet; 29,003 seemed more legitimate. I think the most recent and accurate figure is 29,029 but please don't quote me on that.

    Just proves that preconceived opinions are hard to dislodge. And using pejorative phrases like "spewing propaganda" is not likely to get much support.

    Regards, DQ
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