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Comments
you can get a deal on popular toyota's, but that levels the playing field with other choices (it's all about the deal, not the product).
what if they turn out to be more expensive to insure than other comparable vehicles?
how are current owners going to feel at trade in time and will they buy another toyota?
what about all those young future buyers who are witnessing this meltdown?
will they consider one? perception is a big deal on several levels.
A lot of you called these drivers morons.
In another word, more Toyota drivers are morons....
Honestly, I think this Toyota SUA stuff is getting kind of like kids on the playground arguing. Either Toyota totally sucks or it is the best vehicle out there. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground in these arguments. Its becoming like the Democrats and Republicans in Washington!
I'm done with Sikes -- stick a fork in him.
I'm done answering wisecracks from the resident retirees on this forum -- I still have a day job.
I'm done with discussing "stray" EMF or other electromagnetic/electronic/software/firmware/hardware "issues" -- The End (unless someone comes up with Edmunds' $1 million prize money).
Edmunds is supposed to be fun. This forum is like a boxing match that never ends. I'll check back in a week or so. Let the hits keep on coming... :sick:
Prediction in about 5 years: Toyota recovers and GM goes bust (after Chrysler of course). Remember this on St. Paddy's Day 2015!
Toyota will be fine as usual. In fact, I'd rather have UA than a big 3 vehicle that needs a tow truck to accelerate at all.
Toyota is such a shameless deceptive liar.
The front brakes of the prius were worn down metal to metal. Toyota was unable to lie about it.
However, the rear brakes were not in much better shape. Thickness of a new brake pad is about 10 mm and should be replace at about 2 mm. The rear brake pad of Sikes' Prius was worn down to 0.5mm.
Toyota said the rear brakes were fine. That is a deceptive statement to make it sound like the braking the Prius subject to was not that intense after all.
Actually, the rear brakes were not fine. If someone brings in a Prius with 0.5 mm brake pads and ask the Toyota service staff if the brakes are fine, they will certainly say the bakes are no good because the pad pads are severely worn down and need to be replaced.
Toyota talk of the brakes as if the brake pads are not part of the brake assembly so it can lie deceptively about the rear brakes being fine. Since Toyota says the rear brake of the Prius were fine, does it mean they did not have to service the rear brakes? Of course not. They had to replace the severely worn out brake pads, so the rear brakes were not fine.
I have no doubt that the 250 times figure of pumping the gas and brake was also disclosed in a deceptive manner for Toyota's smear campaign.
Within what time frame were the 250 times recorded?
Was the data recorder designed to record signal directly from the gas pedal when it is pressed before entering the computer or was it designed to record the signal from the computer to the throttle after being modulated by the computer? If the later is the case and a computer glitch has cause the throttle to open wide even though the gas pedal is not pressed, then Toyota interpreting the data as showing the driver having pressed hard on the gas pedal or having pumped the gas pedal would be completely wrong and does not serve the driver justice.
Without critical think, people would be easily deceived by Toyota.
Now Prius owners who got into an accident due to sudden unintended acceleration can no longer be framed by Toyota for hitting the gas pedal by mistake provided that the Event Data Recorder records signals from the gas pedal instead of the signal from the computer to the throttle after being modulated by the computer.
http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Blotter/ht_chp_toyota_100317.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/hed-runaway-toyota-prius-driver-thought-die-dek/st- ory?id=10114198&page=3
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/17/chp-report-backs-driver-of-runawa- y-prius/
MEDICAL STATUS
Once stopped CHP officer Neibert asked if he had any known medical conditions.
Mr. Sikes related:
High Blood Pressue - daily rx
Hx Cardiac Bypass Surgery - 5 way - 5 yrs ago
C/O - chest tightness
CHP Officer Neibert - dispatched for ambulance reponse to scene to evaluate patient condition - c/o chest tightness - medical conditions - high pressure & hx bypass surgery
AMR - American Medical Response Ambulance w Paramedic/EMT- responded - arrived at scene
Neibert report -
Paramedic/EMT medical evaluation - BP & pulse "quite" elevated - continued monitoring BP & pulse & symtoms, verbal questions - vital signs(BP & pulse) gradually decreased acceptable level - patient stated felt ok & denied chest pressure - patient not transported
RN Medical observation from/per CHP report - chest pressure w known existing high blood pressure w rx therapy, increased respirations, elevated pulse, positive hx cardiac bypass surgery 5 way 5 yrs ago - higher risk possible heart attack, stroke, etc. Ambulance w paramedics/EMT dispatch to scene appropriate
Toyota has taken sleazy practices and deception to a new LOW. I am sure many of the Toyota Faithful would castigate their own mother or father if they had such an incident as Sikes. After reading the CHP report I would give a lot more credibility to his account than the lame explanation by Toyota after there so called examination of the Prius. We know that even the top guy in the USA cannot make any policy statements without permission from Japan. So we have to assume that Toyoda gave the OK to smear Sikes and create data from nothing in the runaway Prius. How much advertising did they have to offer the media to get them on board?
The above statement was based on the premise that the override system in Sikes Prius had never malfunctioned. That premise has never been categorically
proved or disproved.
Complaints of unintended acceleration from Toyota owners have been flooding the NHTSA website for many years, yet NHTSA did noting to protect the safety of the drivers. What NHTSA did (or failed to do), considering the extent of the unintended acceleration problem, was tantamount to a silent partner in a cover up. It was not until the dramatic death of a CHP officer and his family in a runaway Lexus that NHTSA began to act like it is doing something.
Is NHTSA still looking over the shoulder of Toyota investigators and take their words for it?
According to CHP interview/reports Toyota did not interview them/talk to them when asked by reported. CHP seemed to be reporting fairly, and just said they must report as occurred. Explained needed to obtain information before releasing report. Seemed reasonable explanation. It took me 5 days to get written report from police here when my deceased husband had ID theft occur.
Next - NHTSA decision.
"In the report, Neibert wrote that when he first caught up with the Prius near Kitchen Creek Road, he saw its hazard lights flashing and its brake lights turning on and off, possibly indicating that Sikes was pumping the brakes."
"Neibert also said Sikes wasn’t sure whether the accelerator was stuck, but that he tried pulling it up three times without success."
"The officer could see Sikes almost standing up from his seat, perhaps to exert his body weight on the brakes. “His back was arched and both hands were pulling on the steering wheel,” Neibert recalled. The driver looked over at me briefly and appeared to be in a panicked state.”
"Examination of the Prius showed a “large amount of brake dust and brake pad material in and around the wheels and on the ground near the front wheels,” Neibert said. “The brake pads located on the outer section of the brake caliper were worn down to what appeared to be nearly metal to metal.”"
"Toyota officials also have confirmed severe wear on the front brakes, but said it was most likely caused by Sikes repeatedly tapping the brake pedal lightly or moderately."
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/17/chp-report-backs-driver-of-runawa- - y-prius/
Tapping the brake pedal lightly or moderately on Mr. Sikes' speeding Prius caused large amount of brake dust and brake pad material in and around the wheels and on the ground near the front wheels and caused the front brakes to be worn down to what appeared to be nearly metal to metal?!
What? That is the opinion of Toyota officials?
Don't they have any shame lying in the their teeth?
I had driven a car for quite a long distance while forgetting to release the parking brake when I was a rookie driver. It was kind of like braking moderately all the way. There was no brake dust on the wheels let alone wearing the brakes metal to metal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/business/global/24anger.html?pagewanted=1
Toyota Sees Growing Anger From Suppliers in Japan
Published: February 23, 2010
KARIYA, Japan — As Toyota’s president Akio Toyoda faces American lawmakers on Wednesday, his company will be facing something else here in Japan’s auto manufacturing heartland: an unprecedented level of opprobrium.
Osamu Miura, laid off by Toyota, with leaflets and a sign asking to be allowed to work.
Come what may, Toyota used to be able to count on a reflexive loyalty in this small city, where the rows of smoke stacks and metal-roofed factories rise like something out of Dickens. But after years of feeling the sting of Toyota’s cost-cutting, some of the workers and suppliers that used to be the company’s biggest cheerleaders are instead experiencing a sense of grim pleasure over the company’s woes.
The change is rooted in the changing behavior of Japanese corporations. Communities like Kariya that once enjoyed a near familial relationship with Toyota, have been feeling forsaken for years as this country’s social contract has changed.
While employment is still for life for Toyota’s full-time workers, some complain that the company is now miserly with wage increases. Over time it has steadily reduced the ranks of its short-term contractors and pressured its suppliers to decrease prices.
For decades, thousands of tiny auto parts companies like Sankyo Seiko were Toyota’s loyal legions, and toiled in relative obscurity to supply the behemoth. But the auto giant’s demands in recent years for ever lower prices have driven many of these companies out of business.
After successive price cuts, Toyota now pays them about 30 percent less for the same part than it did a decade ago, despite the higher cost of raw materials like steel, many companies say.
“Toyota just squeezes us, like it’s trying to wring water from a dry towel,” said Masayuki Nishioka, 49, whose factory in Kariya makes the rubber seals for Toyota’s car windows.
Last month something snapped for Sankyo’s owner, Teruo Moewaki. He appeared on local television to do the unthinkable: criticize Toyota, announcing that he would no longer accept orders from the automaker or its affiliates.
“I said on TV what they all want to say, but are afraid to,” said Mr. Moewaki, 60, standing in the dark one-room workshop where he and his three employees operate gritty machines. “Toyota said we were all one big family. But now they are betraying us.”
The outburst turned Mr. Moewaki into an instant local celebrity. But he is not the only one speaking out.
To hear many here tell it, in good times Toyota failed to increase wages for employees and forced painful price cuts on parts suppliers even as it earned record profits. Since the global downturn, these critics say, Toyota has released thousands of contract workers and squeezed parts makers even further.
While this may seem like normal, even prudent, management, many in Japan see it as an act of betrayal. In fact, Toyota has become a symbol here of how corporate Japan has begun to violate the nation’s unspoken postwar social contract, in which big paternalistic companies share the wealth with employees and business partners in good times and help them weather the bad.
“Toyota is attacked so much because it has become the face of corporate Japan,” said Hisao Inoue, the author of two books on Toyota. “All Japan’s social problems, economic problems, political problems all seem to pile up on Toyota.”
Mr. Inoue said the criticism can be unfair, and is part of a broader reaction here against globalization and the embrace of American-style competition under former Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi. Still, some dozen books have been published in the last five years, with titles like “The Dark Side of Toyota” and “The Toyota You Don’t Know.”
Even through the early 1990s economic collapse, as big companies squeezed costs or shifted production overseas to compete with lower-price rivals from South Korea and China, this manufacturing belt around the central city of Nagoya, an area known as the Detroit of Japan, seemed immune. Toyota continued to grow even as Japan stumbled in other industries, like consumer electronics.
Now there is a palpable sense of alarm in the air. Cities like Kariya appear to be turning into a new rust belt of abandoned industrial neighborhoods, with economists estimating the number of small manufacturers in this part of Japan has dropped by half in the last two decades to about 180,000. Unemployment has also taken off in Aichi prefecture, where Nagoya is located, doubling to 4.5 percent last year from the year before.
One of the newly jobless is Osamu Miura, who worked for two years monitoring quality control at a sprawling plant making Prius hybrids in nearby Toyota City, where the automaker is based. Two months ago, the company said it would not renew his contract, making him one of thousands in that category after the global financial crisis began.
But unlike most of the others, Mr. Miura has refused to go quietly. Every day, he has donned his immaculate company uniform and Toyota cap to report for work at the factory gate, where he is invariably turned away. On a recent rainy afternoon, a half-dozen current and former Toyota employees, members of a small labor union, joined him in front of the gate to hand out fliers to passing workers.
“Toyota is going in the wrong direction, and so is Japan,” said Mr. Miura, 40, who taped a blue placard to his chest that said, “Let me work!”
“Standing up against Toyota is still a taboo,” said Hiroshi Oba, 56, a Toyota employee at the Prius plant who said he was putting his chances for promotion at risk by standing with Mr. Miura, “but these job cuts are a social problem that we cannot ignore.”
Paul Nolasco, a spokesman for Toyota, said the company was aware of such criticisms, but called them one-sided. He said that while the number of contract workers had fallen to 2,300 early this year, from 10,000 before the Lehman Brothers crisis in September 2008, some 900 contract workers have been given full-time jobs since 2008.
It is also hard to gauge the full extent of anger at Toyota. Japan’s establishment media have been restrained in their criticism even during the recalls for fear of angering the company, the nation’s largest advertiser. Toyota critics here say the community still frowns on criticism of the region’s largest employer, making many afraid to speak out.
But that is changing, too. Saichi Kurematsu, chairman of the Airoren, a federation of labor unions in Aichi prefecture, said that complaints once limited to th
I mean, alarm bells should be ringing when the folks back home at Japan itself are mad at toyota's greed and arrogance. I mean, this toyota does not even spare their own countrymen ! What about non-Japanese ? Think about that !
And I suggest all of us should stop typing the name toyota with a capital T. This greedy, bad car maker should be addressed with a small " t ", toyota. Not Toyota. The capital should be reserved for corporations with honour !
To all toyota salesmen or dealers I say this : May I suggest you start to think about resigning and join another brand. Either go back to the hometeam (Ford for example), or join Hyundai, or Nissan. Sticking with this upcoming loser is not going to do you anygood in the long run.
Unlike the last decade, with the internet, twitter,, facebook, e-mails etc, trust me, a lot of people will avoid toyota in the future. I don't see a bright future working with this company.
The best time to abandon ship is when you see compartments starting to fill, not when the ship has started to heel 15 degress to port.
Anyway, are you happy and proud to work for a company that lies, squeezes everybody for money, and have many other criminal like behaviours ?
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3796/the_dark_side_of_the_toyota_prius/
The Dark Side of the Toyota Prius
By Paul Abowd
A new report alleges that Toyota, the world's largest auto company, is violating workers' rights at Prius hybrid plants in Japan.
In its 65-page report released in June, NLC includes first-hand testimony of factory conditions in “Toyota City,” outside of Nagoya, Japan — less than 200 miles southwest of Tokyo — where the largest auto company in the world employs some 70,000 people.
The report alleges that Toyota exploits guest workers, mostly shipped in from China and Vietnam. According to the NLC, these workers are “stripped of their passports and often forced to work — including at subcontract plants supplying Toyota — 16 hours a day, seven days a week, while being paid less than half the legal minimum wage.” Workers are forced to live in company dormitories and deported for complaining about poor treatment, the report finds.
Low-wage temporary workers make up one-third of Toyota’s Prius assembly-line workers, mostly in the auto-parts supply chain. They are signed to contracts for periods as short as four months, and are paid only 60 percent of a full-time employee’s wage.
Parts plants run by subcontractors advertise standard, nine-hour, five-day-a-week jobs. But according to the NLC, “the typical shift was 15 to 16.5 hours a day, from 8:30 a.m. to 11:30 p.m. or 1:00 a.m.”
In 2002, Kenichi Uchino, 30, died while working at the “green” Tsutsumi plant that assembles the Prius. During the 13th hour of a routine 14-hour day, Uchino collapsed on the shop floor of the internationally lauded “sustainable” factory, which uses sulfur-oxide-eating paint and boasts 5 percent emissions reductions. A Japanese court ruled that Uchino’s death was caused by exhaustion from overwork.
His wife, Hiroko Uchino, described a grueling lifestyle that included an 85-hour workweek prior to his death. The NLC published his time cards, which reveal that he was “putting in 106.5 to 155 hours of overtime in the 30 days leading up to his death.”
Much of this overtime went unpaid. (Toyota explained Kenichi’s extra hours as “voluntary quality control activities,” says the report.) But in court, his survivors were able to win pension payments.
The NLC also alleges that Toyota — through its subsidiary Toyota Tsusho — has joint business ventures with Burma’s military regime. The charges arise from an agreement between Tsusho, Suzuki and the junta to set up parts and material plants in Burma, and produce vehicles for the military government. These ties remain despite a 2001 declaration from the company that it ended contracts with the Burmese government.
In the wake of the report, the company wrote a letter to stockholders: “Toyota has carefully considered the current environment in Burma, has conveyed to Toyota Tsusho Corporation its concerns about that environment, and has asked Toyota Tsusho to reconsider its business activities in the country.” As the largest owner of Tsusho’s stock (more than a third), Toyota itself has a role to play in cutting these ties.
The NLC report also connects the company’s overseas misdeeds to the American economy. Millions of dollars in car parts shipped by Toyota Tsusho are received by Tsusho America, which distributes them to Toyota assembly plants in the American South. This influx of foreign auto infrastructure uses an overwhelming ratio of non-union labor, fueling the diminution of union density in the auto sector.
What’s more, a memo leaked from Toyota’s Georgetown, Ky., plant to the New York Times in late 2007, exposed “management’s plans to cut $300 million in labor costs across Toyota’s North American operations over the next three years.” To do this, Toyota plans to introduce tiered wage scales and reduced health benefits for U.S. Toyota workers, which should come as little surprise to an American auto workforce that has suffered similar attacks from Detroit’s Big Three manufacturers for the past three decades.
As NLC Director Charles Kernaghan says, if Hollywood celebrities — such as actors Leonardo DiCaprio and Cameron Diaz — can popularize green driving, they can also help end Toyota’s sweatshop labor regime and its ties to Burma’s dictatorship.
Says Kernaghan: “We hope that these same celebrities will now also challenge Toyota to improve its respect for human and worker rights.”
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-canaries8-2010mar08,0,3352893,full.- story
Even the Chinese quickly reacted when they realized toyota's so called quality is a sham. They feel that safety is far more important than brand loyalty. And they are willing to pay more for another safer brand. They are embracing American brands, Hyundai, Nissan in large numbers. FYI, Nissan has passed toyota to be the no.1 Japanese brand in China.
Can someone tell me why some Americans can't think the same rational way ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b97CvqFJMls&feature=related
So that's 16 x 2 x 5 = 160 times a week hitting the brake not accounting for slowing down in traffic. But, I just don't drive my car to work. I go to the store, I go to the bank, I go out for lunch, I run a whole lot of other errands. One can quickly run up hitting the brake 250 times. I also have a very short commute to and from work. Maybe Mr. Sikes lived a lot further from his job than do I?
I have given Toyota 3 chances over the last 45 years. I am driving the last Toyota I will purchase. The Faithful and Loyal can line up behind them and cheer for their making a big return. I see no good reason to do that. Other than the handful of working men and women in this country that depend on them for their livelihood. I would have let GM and Chrysler self destruct as well. I don't think the horrible management at GM compares with the lies and deceit being exposed at the core of Toyota Corporation.
I have to wonder how many dogooder Prius owners would feel warm and fuzzy, knowing their cars were built with slave labor? Maybe the ends justify the means to those people. The pollution and human rights violations are NIMBY, so it is OK.
I stopped doing that many weeks ago.
Also the LEXUS needs to added to the toyota name. They are working hard to try to keep this only associated with one name rather than with their clones in the lexus lineup.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
There used to be a toyota salesman in the discussion. He disappeared here months ago after somewhat rudely arguing that only the floor mats were the problem and nothing more electronic beyond that. Then the toyota excuse trying to blame CTS for the sticking pedals and saying that caused the runaway accelerations...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/17/youll-never-guess-which-midsize-sedan-wins-mt- s-latest-comparo/
Toyota is leaving a $131-million pension shortfall to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. as it closes the New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. plant in Fremont, Calif., April 1, said Sergio Santos, president of UAW Local 2244.
In recent days, Toyota sweetened the severance offer from $253 million to $281 million for the about 4,500 NUMMI workers, Santos said. Each hourly worker will receive a base severance of $21,175, plus supplements that vary based on years of service, the union president said.
"For the world's most profitable automaker to walk away from a pension covering people who, in some cases, worked for more than a quarter of a century doesn't look good," Shaiken said. "Especially in the wake of Toyota's recent recalls."
another Toyota rip-off
$21K is not much of a severance package. I got about that much as a parting package when I chose to retire at age 63. Now the state will be stuck with $millions in unemployment benefits as they will not find a job paying that much in this economy.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Aside from the flaky electronic DBW systems, this would kill Camry for me.
"Okay, steering feel and handling prowess are not outstanding, but when you hustle this slice of milquetoast, it shrugs off road imperfections and carves through turns just fine. There's lots of chassis roll but no loss of control. Seemingly excels at nothing
Having MT give its sign of approval may not equate to more sales. A lot of MT winners, have turned out to be REAL LOSERS.
Actually Toyota is now in 3rd place behind GM and Ford in the US market. Probably 3rd in the World market behind VW and GM. Will they regain any market share in March? Don't hold your breath for them. They are in trouble all over the World.
Toyota sales in Europe slip 20 percent
Tue Mar 16, 7:33 am ET
BRUSSELS – Toyota's sales in Europe slipped 20 percent in February from a year ago after the company launched a massive recall to fix faulty gas pedals, according to EU car makers' sales figures released Tuesday.
The company sold 42,234 cars in the 27-nation bloc in February, down from 53,233 the same month a year ago.
It launched a worldwide recall in early February that now covers some 8 million cars and trucks worldwide to repair problems with gas pedals and floor mats that can cause the accelerator to become stuck in the depressed position.
Toyota's poor sales figures came in a good month for the overall European Union car market, with sales up 3 percent over the year.
A nearly 30 percent drop in sales in the region's biggest car buying market, Germany, was compensated by stronger results from other major markets such as France, Italy, Spain and Britain. French sales were up 18 percent, Italy 20 percent, Spain 47 percent and Britain 26 percent.
That pretty much describes 95% of the insurance industry, 85% of the car salesman industry, 90% of the real estate agent industry, 90% of the banking industry, and includes GM, Ford, and Chrysler too.
Are you asking all of them to resign as well?
They would not say the brakes are no good because they are fine as long as there is some pad left. They would however, say they are due for replacement. There is a big distinction there.
Within what time frame were the 250 times recorded?
Getting pretty desperate here and grasping for straws are we?
then Toyota interpreting the data as showing the driver having pressed hard on the gas pedal or having pumped the gas pedal would be completely wrong and does not serve the driver justice.
Since Sikes is claiming constant UA, intermittent UA wouldn't really be a problem since the Prius is so weak you could easily stop it with some braking or even putting your foot on the ground and dragging your feet
Sorry, but the Chinese are not acting rationally. You have an incorrect and fallible premise to your assumptions.
The Chinese hate the Japanese. The Chinese have hated the Japanese for hundreds of years. The history of contempt goes WAY WAY back, for many and multiple reasons, events, and misdeeds.
You need to take Asian history 101 sometime.
It doesn't surprise me that the Chinese would rather avoid Japanese cars.
Yes, I'd say the lies and deceits that GM, Ford, & Chrysler that were previously exposed were FAR WORSE than anything Toyota's ever done to this day. The blatant fraud of selling junk as vehicles is clearly false advertising, false ecomomy, false sale, and false warranty (needing gov't backed warranties is fraud!).
What the Big 3 have done for decades is not different than if I opened a shop and sold blocks of gold painted iron and claimed they were full solid real 18K Gold.
You can't defend the Sykes fiasco, with all the information coming to light about his financial troubles, and myriad of other things that tell about his "situation".
There is plenty of baggage all auto makers have. Ford/Firestone, Ford/Cruise Control Switches that catch fire and burn down garages, believe me Toyota is NOT ALONE.
They will bounce back fine after this, it may take a few years, but the truth of the matter is that they make some of the most reliable cars on the road. I am not a sales person. Just someone who has owned a 2001 Ford Explorer that was so bad I had to trade it in on a "05 4Runner which I still own. 1 problem in 5 years of ownership, compared to at least 7 on the Explorer.
In recent days, Toyota sweetened the severance offer from $253 million to $281 million for the about 4,500 NUMMI workers, Santos said. Each hourly worker will receive a base severance of $21,175, plus supplements that vary based on years of service, the union president said.
Any severeance is a good serverance if you ask me. Most private companies will offer ZERO serverence.
Also, how does the amount of Toyota's pension shortfall compare with the shortfall GM & Chrysler had with their pension accounts when going bankrupt?
I don't know about Chrysler. GM was fully funded when they went bankrupt. The only issue is retirees keeping their gold plated HC plan.
If you work for a corporation that does not give a severance package shame on you. That is right up their with not putting a Toyota in Neutral when it does its UA.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2010-Vehicle-Dependability-Study-Results
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-autos18-2010mar18,0,3941220.story?track=rs- s&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fmostviewe- d+%28L.A.+Times+-+Most+Viewed+Stories%29
Getting pretty desperate here and grasping for straws are we?
Well, I think it is very valid question.
In what timeframe these 250 brake application happened.
1 week? 1 day? 1 hour? 1 minute? 1 second?
If it is simple counter without time reference it may be lifetime of the car.
Krzys
Does anyone know how the gizmo in Sikes' Prius actually works? Does hitting the brake full up the buffer and then it recycles to zero? Or does it reset to zero when the ignition is turned off? (guess not, since I recall that Sikes turned his car off once it was stopped).
And does the buffer get 100 counts when the ABS self test goes off? [Ah, looks like Krzys has the same question that I do].
I remember my sister as a teenage driver keeping the beat to the music by pumping the accelerator when she first started driving - it wouldn't take too long to hit 250 beats.
(yeah, she was an awful driver - hit the same truck 3 times before the guy finally quit parking across from our driveway).
Result of this underfunding - many employees will/may not realize full retirement benefits despite their years of service. Depends upon ERISA type plan. But defaulting to PBGC does/may indicate workers will be affected. If plan fully funded, or in individual accounts - PBGC would not be required. Retirement benefit plan could have been terminated by Toyota when plant closed. GM and Toyota did not demonstrate good fiduciary responsibility, oversight/investment management of plan market investments. But ERISA Law does allow with certain conditions.
I have no knowledge of the facts/corporate positons to close plant, but with GM going bankrupt and courts decision to allow GM to dissolve partnership, closing of plant by Toyota has been known for awhile. I am not sure if GM had to make restitution to Toyota or not. Can't comment at all.
Fact is both GM and Toyota defaulted on this ERISA retirement plan. GM through bankruptcy. Toyota by turning over to the federal insurance agency - PBGC. Both walked away. Plan is not new. An employees retirement benefits accounts are not 100% protected, unless benefits kept in individual employee accounts - Ex. like a 401 K. If benefits in individual accounts this publicity plan underfunded may only be due to the down turn of the market. But it does appear this plan highly questionable & will have detrimental result to employees. .
Toyota has reached an agreement with the union of this Nummi plant. Leaked news reports reveal a possible severance package payout. Last I heard vote was still needed re: final agreement. Can't make any comment here either - as facts unknown. But Toyota alone is paying for agreements.
This particular situation does/seem to involve two auto manufacturers - GM & Toyota. I do feel for the workers- lots of monetary issues for them. Sad fact is - employment security is not guaranteed in US and never has been.
You only know half of the story. Almost every Chinese American buy Toyota. Without Chinese American here in the US, Toyota would be lucky to sell half of what they do now.
> Toyota is No. 6 behind Lincoln, Buick and Mercury among others
> "Seven of the 10 models with the lowest incidence of problems in the industry are from Ford and General Motors"
> In the volume leader category, the mid size cars, Buick LaCrosse is on top, followed by Mercury Milan and Honda Accord; no Toyota Camry
Here's the link: JD Power 2010 vehicle dependability study
Highlights:
Here’s (perhaps) the finale of David’s remarkable data diving: a full chart showing all makes and models sold from 1995 through 2008, with their rates of reported UA incidents to the NHTSA. To make the findings easier to interpret, David has adjusted all the results as a relationship to the same year average, rather than just the raw results. This really highlights those vehicles with higher than average rates of reported UA...
Some observations about Toyotas and other vehicles:
• Camrys are consistently worse than average for 2002-2005 model years. And the 2007 model has among the worst values for popular vehicles. But 2006 and 2008 Camrys are almost incident-free. The Lexus ES has the exact same pattern. So it appears that the recall (which covers 2007-2010 Camrys) does not target some of the most affected cars (2002-2005). Many of the cars which ARE recalled don’t have a significant UA problem (2008 and 2009 – and 2009 has so few problems that it doesn’t even show up on the chart!).
• Toyota has a problem across many of its vehicles, not just Camrys. It’s the only manufacturer where so many model lines have problems after 2002.
• General Motors and Honda are nearly immune to UA issues. GM’s success in preventing UA is surely meaningful, given that it’s a full-line manufacturer with models known to be preferred by older drivers.
• Fords were quite problematic until 2002. Cars from the 2003 or later model years are much less problematic.
• There are many other model/years with incident spikes (e.g,. Volvos and Jaguars), but these are generally much lower-volume vehicles. Since we don’t have much context about their UA history, it’s hard to say if the spikes are meaningful.
Paul:
What seems to stand out is numerous incidents of higher than average UA rates for vehicles just after a new generation is introduced, or the opposite: a dramatic reduction of a high UA car after it is replaced. Some examples of that are:
Ford Expedition: drops off after new ‘03 model. Chrysler minivans: spike in UA after new ‘96 model introduced. Ford Focus: spike after new model introduced in 2000. Suzuki Grand Vitara/Verona high UA rates drop after new model introduced in ‘06.
What is clear to both of us is that issues with pedal location, size and relationship to their surroundings may be a key factor in these changes. This warrants further inquiry.
What this says to me is that there may be no electronic issue at all in the Toyotas (and other vehicles), but rather the same problem as occurred in the 1980s Audi 5000 -- pedal placement and possible misapplication.
And even though my model year Camrys (2004 and '05) have higher than average rates of unintended acceleration, my wife and I have never experienced any kind of acclerative blip or surge ever in our cars over the 6 and 5 years, respectively, we've owned them.
> Toyota is No. 6 behind Lincoln, Buick and Mercury among others
> "Seven of the 10 models with the lowest incidence of problems in the industry are from Ford and General Motors"
Nothing like the whole truth, as reported by the NYT (first Google hit) about JD Power:
Porsche had 110 problems per 100 vehicles. Lincoln was second with 114 problems per 100 vehicles, followed by Buick and Lexus in a tie with 115 problems per 100 vehicles. After that came Mercury with 121, Toyota with 128, Honda with 132, Ford with 141, Mercedes-Benz with 142, Acura with 143, Hyundai with 148, Cadillac with 150, Infiniti with 150 and Subaru with 155, which is the industry average. All other brands were below that industry average.
So Lexus, a Toyota brand obviously, tied for 3rd with Buick. (And second place Lincoln is only a click better than Lexus and Buick, so it's essentially a 3-way tie for these brands.) There's more:
Toyota’s fortunes haven’t changed much from last year, despite the major recalls for unintended acceleration issues. Last year it had 127 problems per 100 vehicles; this year its score is 128. Last year it ranked fourth; this year it is sixth. Only 0.1 percent, or four, of the 4,000 Toyota owners in the survey reported having any kind of problem with the accelerator pedal.
The recalls were not a factor in Toyota’s ranking, Mr. Sargent said. The survey was taken between October and December of last year, which was just as Toyota’s problems were getting national attention. Also, the study measures problems people are actually experiencing [my emphasis], not people who have had their vehicle recalled, he said.
Entire article here.