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So he stood on the gas and was on/off with the brakes. [Edit: left foot braking, as any Corvette club member would be familiar with from drag race starts]
The whole neutral would "flip the car" issue kills any credibility Sikes may have had.
I don't lose any credibility on his statement. Many people aren't as car savvy and car aware as you and I are. He may have been thinking of Neutral as equalling Park. I suspect many people never use Neutral in their driving and only go between Park, Drive, and Reverse. His sense may have been that accidentally putting it in Park would lock the front wheels causing the car to dig in up front and possibly flip in the forward mode.
Taking off my clinical psychologist hat.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not yet, I'm waiting for $5K under invoice and 0% financing for 8 years.....
Maybe Sikes read the manual. The 04-09 Prius Manual says Not to put the car in neutral while it is moving. It may damage the HSD system. It is not a straight slide into neutral either. You have to move to the N then push the shift lever in for 2 seconds. One of many goofy designs by Toyota.
Alas, shifting a Prius into neutral is not as simple as with most models, as my neighbor Emmett discovered. He's a technology lover, one of those guys who loves to figure out how things work and why.
He took his 2006 Prius through some neighborhood streets at low speeds and tried several times to shift into neutral. He failed the first four times before finally succeeding. Then he fired off a letter to Consumer Reports detailing his difficulties. Why was it so hard?
A traditional car shifts into neutral with one easy step. All you do is push the shift lever to the "N" position. But in the Prius Emmett found out, you must first push the shift lever to "N," then hold it in that position and finally wait a second or two before the transmission shifts into neutral.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
i need to buy a new car and i am debating between accord and camry. frankly, i like camry better than accord. if not for the recall thing, i wud hv gone with camry.. however, with the recalls going on, i am not sure if camry is a sensible choice.
Please can anyone here advice me on buying or not buying camry under these circumstances.
thank u
sandy
This guy is a member of the local Corvette club.
A representative from the club said they were "embarassed".
Sikes is a car guy, like us.
Gimme a break.
Do you admit that it's possible some people owning Corvettes aren't car savvy?
:shades:
They just bought the Vette because it's something they want and they are willing to spend to gain that image? :surprise:
It would parallel the people who buy a Prius because they think that is being "green" when in reality it's polluting the earth more than buying a Corolla. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A poseur would buy a Corvette.
An enthusiast would buy a Corvette and then join the local club to spend time with other like-minded enthusiasts.
Like I said, his peers were "embarassed".
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100321/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_investor_ire
TREAD when passed, was susposed to protect consumers more through public access to information regarding problems. This helps consumer to protect themselves. The lawyers have found a loophole and information is being with held from public knowledge. Auto manufacturers do not want to release information - want kept confidential. Consumer safety agencies want info to be made public - have sued. There is presently big fight going on at present for public access to almost all information.
All information coming from NHTSA is not ALL INFORMATION. Everyone blogging on this site should be quite concerned.
_______________________
49 CFR Part 512 Appendix C law reveals manufacturers can claim information be kept from public knowlede because it may damage their reputation, etc.
(a) The Chief Counsel has determined that the following information required to be submitted to the agency under 49 CFR 579, Subpart C, if released, is likely to cause substantial harm to the competitive position of the manufacturer submitting the information and is likely to impair the government's ability to obtain necessary information in the future:
(1) Reports and data relating to warranty claim information and warranty adjustment information for manufacturers of tires;
(2) Reports and data relating to field reports, including dealer reports, product evaluation reports, and hard copies of field reports; and
(3) Reports and data relating to consumer complaints.
(b) The Chief Counsel has determined that the following information required to be submitted to the agency under 49 CFR 579, Subpart C, if released, is likely to cause substantial harm to the competitive position of the manufacturer submitting the information:
(1) Reports of production numbers for child restraint systems, tires, and vehicles other than light vehicles, as defined in 49 CFR 579.4(c); and
(2) Lists of common green tire identifiers.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=9f05cafe54564a4480f0207- 5696c996f&rgn=div9&view=text&node=49:6.1.2.3.5.5.1.5.4&idno=49
This involves confidential information
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title49/49c- fr512_main_02.tpl
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ewr/docs/EWRConfidentiality.pdf
The drivers/owners of these manufacturers autos are human beings. In emergencies people many times do things they would not normally do. People should not be criticized, as this is a common human reaction to emergencies. Some may do well in emergencies, many do not. The reasons why some people do not react well to emergency situations is multifaceted. Will not address here as long.
Here are the human factors/engineering aspects research in progress by NHTSA
http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/template.MAXIMIZE/menuite5928da45f9959238- 1601031046108a0c/?javax.portlet.tpst=4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_ws_MX&java- x.portlet.prp_4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_viewID=detail_view&itemID=e18ef3c- b2eec0210VgnVCM1000002fd17898RCRD&viewType=standard
Yes, people do need to read manuel and learn how to use car. But manufacturers and their engineers also must take responsibility for the design of their products that address all aspects involving consumer safety. These below research projects by NHTSA best reflect the human aspects when engineering their products.
The drivers/owners of these manufacturers autos are human beings. In emergencies people many times do things they would not normally do. People should not be criticized, as this is a common human reaction to emergencies. Some may do well in emergencies, many do not. The reasons why some people do not react well to emergency situations is multifaceted. Will not address here as long.
I completely agree with you. I was just trying to see if I could make a positive comment about Toyota right now and give them the benefit of the doubt. Didn't work.
They're guilty as hell. And if they did know about the Prius being tough to get in to neutral they should have their salespeople telling buyers that this is what you should do in an emergency like this. Not just keeping it to themselves.
Sure. We can and do keep lots of things to ourselves. It's human nature and it should be human nature. But withholding information that can save lives is just plain wrong.
You're completely correct, sharonkl!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Human factors are/must always be considered. It's not just autos ands how they are developed, etc.. These human factors are always considered police- officers + victim + criminals, fire -employees + public protection/emergencies/evacuation, medical/hospital emergency situations - patient + employees, medical emergency ambulance/fire response- employees + patient & family & public, building codes for emergency evacuation, etc, etc, etc.. Is present all around us. College majors and professional careers exist in this field. Many studies exist. I could post links to the actual human physiological systems responses to stressful situations.
Then we have to check to make sure the pilot cuff gets inflated so that the ET tube doesn't move either up or down. A chest x-ray determines proper placement of the ET tube. Then the cuff must be de-flated and the Respiratory Therapist either pulls the ET tube up or down as needed to get the right fit. But my point is all of these medical parts can't be built to confuse the medical worker. They have to have a certain "intuitiveness" to them or the worker won't have a clue where they go or how they fit.
And stress just makes things worse. Stress ruins safety and accurateness in the workplace.
And it is making these Toyota accidents all the more heartbreaking to read about. You're right, people shouldn't have to figure out how to take evasive action in their cars when there's an emergency. Conversely, we must be diligent to know how our car operates if we have to hit the brakes, move the gearknob, etc. It shouldn't be hard to figure out. Apparently the Toyota engineers couldn't figure out how to make the Prius gearknob intuitive in accordance with the parts they had to work with. Too bad, but that is how it was made and the affected Prius buyers are going to have to deal with it.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Same goes with operating a motor vehicle, you need to know how to operate the transmission shifter ans what Neutral does and what reverse does. I have tested shifting my Prius shifting to Neutral doing 45-50 Mph on an empty stretch of road without a problem.
If the recalls and all the publicity had not come about, would you say that it would be easy shifting your Prius into neutral without ever trying it at high speed? Does your Prius manual mention shifting into Neutral while moving?
my guess is, the emphasis is to make it seem like any other car, but it gets better fuel mileage.
did anyone else notice that the camry and lexus issues are not getting what seems to be any defending effort from the manufacturer?
http://www.examiner.com/x-11235-Bowling-Green-Corvette-Examiner~y2010m3d11-Corve- tte-owner-James-Sikes-cant-handle-runaway-Prius
Excerpts:
The guy that was all over the news because he couldn't get his runaway Prius whoa'd up is a Corvette owner. Which means one of two things: he has never driven his Corvette at 90 mph (doubtful) or he just went brain dead when he lost control of the Prius speed
Once Corvette owners get wind of his lack of ability and panic at buzzing down the SoCal freeway at a measly 90 mph with no apparent braking ability, the razzing will be ruthless
The Corvette Owners Club might decide to issue a recall of their own - if not for James Sikes Corvette, at least for the jacket.
There's more but I'm sure you're familiar with Google.
Okay, so it appears you are right about the "take it out of gear comment by the 911 operator
nmt001 responded with:
Even though they mean the same thing, take the car out of gear is not the proper way to tell drivers in a frantic situation to "shift the gear to neutral" especially when it is in a question like " Is there a way for you to take the car out gear?"
Except nmt001 was not right about that.
The entire uncut 911 audio is now available.
In the first 3.5 minutes, the 911 operator asks, quote:
911: "Is there a way you can put the car in neutral, sir?"
Sikes: "No."
911: "No? Have you tried to put it in neutral?"
Sikes: "I'm trying to control the car."
911: "Okay. Have you tried to put the car in neutral?"
Sikes: "No."
So he wasn't only asked to take it out of gear, he was specifically asked to put it in neutral at least three times.
Just who are you referring to?
I've owned one Toyota.
You've owned three.
The first ownership experience didn't keep you from buying a 2nd. The second ownership experience didn't keep you from buying a 3rd.
Actions speak louder than words, Mr. Toyota Faithful III.
I'm not pro-Toyota, I'm anti-fraud. Sikes is a scam artist.
They may except they have not responded whether Sikes is even a member or ever was a member. All media hype and assumptions from a cheap jacket.
IF Sikes belongs to the Corvette Owners Club of San Diego (I'm waiting on a response to my request for confirmation by the club), he's in for some serious ribbing at the next meeting. Is Sikes a member?
Just who are you referring to?
I've owned one Toyota.
You've owned three.
I guess that makes you a faster learner about buying a Toyota. I am sure this is my last one. Three not being the charm.
I'm not pro-Toyota, I'm anti-fraud. Sikes is a scam artist.
I would hope to never get you on a jury. You have made up your mind without seeing all the evidence. And denying evidence you have seen. Sikes may be a scam artist. In the same vein as car salesmen and attorneys.
Funny, but no.
We chose the Forester because the RAV4's door opens the wrong way (blocking the curb side).
I chose a Miata and Toyota doesn't even have a competitor in that class. I test drove an MR2 a while ago but the SMG transmission was awful.
I am faithful to the needs of my family, and myself, my own selfish wants, not any car corporation.
You have made up your mind without seeing all the evidence
Not at all.
I began this discussion in other threads, so you didn't see my early opinions, but in the Toyota UA thread and in the Odyssey vs. Sienna threads search and you'll find that I was the one telling people not to rush to judgement when the Sikes report first came out.
There was me and one other guy (victor23) telling everyone else to wait for more evidence. Toyota haters were the ones who jumped to conclusions before any evidence was out. They are the ones you would not want on your jury.
Hang on - it's worth a search to show you...
March 11, I wrote:
That information will come up gradually over the next couple of days.
At one point the driver says the pedal was "stuck", but we'll see.
http://townhall.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f105086/177#MSG177
Gradually, we'll see, ... no jumping to conclusions. The Toyota haters, OTOH, had indeed jumped to conclusions.
I underestimated you.
You were also with me on this, not jumping to conclusions.
The same day, March 11, in this thread, you wrote:
we will have to train the cops on how to talk people through UA situations. No word yet on the cause of this UA. Hard to pin it on the driver.
Except for that last sentence, perhaps.
Neither of us jumped to conclusions, though many others did.
If I was a hard core Toyota hater, I would not have bought the Sequoia. I felt it was the best vehicle for the money at the time. $10,000 off of MSRP was the deciding factor. I would never ever pay MSRP for that vehicle or any other vehicle for that matter. My first choice was the Escalade or Denali. Wife did not like the Caddy and the GMC dealer thought he could screw me on the deal. I stopped looking for 6 months till I sold the GMC Hybrid PU and the cash was burning a hole in my pocket.
In spite of the little things I don't like about the Sequoia, not much else turns me on right now. I am always hopeful.
toyota has been PROVEN to be cunning, callous, disregard for lives and put money first, and lied again and again. All the way to the top brass in tokyo. " it will become factual once posted again and again as you said " ? What are you talking about ? These toyota bad deeds are FACTUAL ! Proven already in their memos and actions ! These are not rumours for God's sake !
I can only think of a few reasons why people still defend toyota today and all are silly reasons :
1. they are toyota people. My advise : Resign and join another honorable corporations before yr kids start kidding you abt working for crooks.
2. they still own toyotas and does'nt want more bad press that could dent resale values further. My advise : You can't stop these bad press here in this forum only. A smarter solution is instead of defending them, you should sell them before their resale values plunge even more and become harder to sell. Then after you have sold them and bought a Ford, Hyundai or Nissan, join us and spread the message to help more people avoid mishaps due to this toyota crook. Do the right thing.
Save the environment and lives ! Forget abt the prius hybrid. But the Nissan LEAF instead. No emissions. No fuel used.
3. they are just plain toyota fanatics. No more. For these people, I can't help them because I think even if their kid or mother is to be killed tomorrow in their toyota as it suffers from SUA, they will STILL love toyota. They will think that its their kid or mother who pressed the gas pedal wrongly.
And that its " too bad for my kid or mother ". Not toyotas fault.
Anyone care to add ?
The Chinese in China are not fanatical to any brand, as none of the big brands have dominant shares there. It explains why German brands, Japanese brands, American brands all have big sales there.
But the interesting thing is toyota is continuing to slip there, and Nissan have passed them to become the no.1 Japanese brand there. Hows that for hating the Japanese ?
And if you look at China, many Japanese electronics also do well, like Matsushita, Sony etc. I tell you, its because the Chinese are aware that the quality of American cars, German cars are similar to Japanese cars. And they don't worship toyota because of the prius or what have you toyota save the world b.s.
Its because slowly they realize toyota is not only boring, but their quality is way exaggerated by the overseas press, especially American. Like me, they realize that Nissan is better than toyota.
And with the recent revelation that toyota is not only a poor quality car maker but a crook as well, the Chinese lose no time in turning to other more trustworthy brands. I guess they don't want to die for toyota like some people here in this forum.
Same thing in Germany, heard toyota sales there plunged very badly. Again I think its not because of the huge no of recalls, its that people get turned off by toyota's gangster like behaviour.
Want to save the planet : somethins better than the prius : The Nissan LEAF.
If the Chinese really hate the Japanese so much, honda and Nissan will not be able to achieve the kind of sales volumes they have there.
Toyota used to impress Chinese customers with its good quality. But now this is changing in the wake of the company's spate of vehicle recalls. As a result, Toyota dealers in China are seeing their sales plummet.
Let's take a closer look with reporter Liu Min.
Reporter:
In early January, those who purchased a new Toyota RAV4 compact SUV from dealers in China and wanted to drive their vehicles home the same day had to fork over a pickup fee of as much as 8 to 10 thousand yuan.
But at the end of the month, the price of the vehicle dropped abruptly following the carmaker's recall announcement and there is no need to pay for the pick-up fee.
A Toyota dealer says:
"We have plenty of stock now that customers no longer need to wait. Plus, we are offering a discount of 8 to 10 thousand yuan."
The odd thing now is that customers can find other brand models like Buick and Skoda under some dealers' Toyota signs at auto marketplaces.
One dealer says:
"That's because our Toyota's sales dropped too much, so we have changed our marketing strategy."
Within two months, local dealers in Beijing reduced the price of a RAV4 by 20 thousand yuan. This month, they are also giving a 20 to 25 thousand yuan discount on Toyota's newly launched Crown to win over Chinese customers. And those who purchase a new Camry can receive an 18 thousand yuan discount. But still, Chinese customers remain very cautious about buying Toyota vehicles.
"I'm still concerned. It's not so easy to purchase a car for us. I need to choose one with good quality. Now I'm thinking about Volkswagen."
Toyota sold 709 thousand cars in China last year, with an average of 58 thousand vehicles per month. But this year, its sales in February totaled only 45 thousand.
Guo Yong is Market Information Department Manager at the Beijing Asian Games Auto Trade Center, the largest auto market in Beijing. A survey by his company indicates that fewer car buyers these days are considering Toyota's products.
"There has been a downside impact on car buyers after the recall issue. Our data shows that 20 percent of the customers who wanted to buy Toyota now are looking at other brands."
Toyota's pain could be other automakers' gain. Honda has been the first to take action. Honda Fit and Accord are considered the main competitors of Toyota Vio and Camry. The average prices of the Honda models have jumped by 400 yuan to 5 thousand yuan.
Guo Yong says the best beneficiary in this round of competition is not Japanese cars.
"Toyota's recalls are not only hurting the company itself, but also hurting all Japanese car brands. By contrast, Volkswagen is making more profit out of the chaos."
Volkswagen seems to be quickly capitalizing on Toyota's woes. Shanghai-based Volkswagen sold about 59 thousand cars in February this year, an increase of 38 percent than the same time last year.
Volkswagen is also beating Toyota in the secondhand vehicle market.
Wang Meng is Trade Director of the Beijing Old Vehicle Trade Center.
"Nearly all the car models are seeing a slight rise in price since demand now exceeds supply in the market with only Toyota reducing their prices, an average drop of 3 to 4 percent. Brands like Shanghai and Changchun-based Volkswagen and Shanghai-based GM have all seen an obvious increase in price."
One secondhand car dealer says more people are coming to sell their Toyota cars, although dealers are having second thoughts.
"We used to love buying Toyota cars, but now we are not that impulsive to do so."
While Toyota faces cold reactions in both the new and secondhand auto markets in China, auto industry analysts predict it could take much longer for it to regain its reputation for quality among Chinese customers.
I think many Americans take jd power and consumer reports too seriously. I mean, its b.s. that they still give toyota rank number 7 despite their massive problems recently. Maybe toyota also bought them off ?
Sounds like the extra charges for the priviledge of buying a toyota-lexus is not unique to the US store near us. It's worldwide.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Nissan
Hyundai
BMW
Ford
Mercedes
GM
VW
Honda
It is not the recalls that have started the firestorm on Toyota. It is their lies and deception about problems they don't seem to be able to fix. It is their dependence on attorneys & PR folks to get them out of SUA trouble, rather than good engineering.
Two men were killed last night when their car ran into the rear of a tow truck on Roosevelt Boulevard at Haldeman Avenue in Bustleton.
Two horrified witnesses, who were driving north in the outer lane, said they saw the car, a Toyota Camry, roar past them and smash into the tow truck, which was pulling out from a traffic light. The Toyota was wedged under the truck and pushed it several feet.
Matt Schmitt, 22, of Bensalem, and Stacee Gagliana, 21, of Northeast Philly, pulled over after the crash and Schmitt checked out the smashed car. He said he saw the driver but didn't realize there was a passenger until he saw a flash of blue jean.
Police set the time of the crash at 8:48 p.m. The two men, who had not been identified last night, were pronounced dead at the scene at 9.
Gagliana said she saw no brake lights go on. "All we heard was a bang and then there was smoke," she said.
"You always see people driving like idiots on the boulevard," Schmitt said. "But this was the first time we saw one hit something."
in researching the related technical info. I make this reply short for common folks to follow, then I will provide more detailed & more technical answers if requested.
Let's talk about the Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) first so we can understand this issue better. I do not have the Toyota Technical Information System (TIS) at hand, so my description will be brief & approximate.
It uses 2 identical & separate sensors to decode the gas pedal travel. At rest the sensors has about 0.4 VDC, at maximum speed, pedal is at the floor, the voltage is about 4.55 VDC. The sensor circuits uses 5 VDC supply.
The common reason for 2 identical sensors is if one is broken the other one will be used (redundancy) and to verify the difference between their voltage. Both sensors sense the same pedal, so if the difference in their
voltage is greater than certain amount, then one of them is broken. That's how I see the redundancy is used in the Department of Defense (DOD) avionics. But what I see in the report is a different design philosophy
Basically the professor says: 1) The Toyota ETC does not recognize and record a fault code if there is a short (a connection) between 2 sensors. 2) The same as above if there is a short (a connection)
betwen the sensors' ouput to the +5 VDC supply. In this case the sensors' 5V output means a full/deep throttle hard acceleration. If you look at the sensor assembly, connector & wiring you would say the same as Toyota's answer: "unrealistic condition"
Here is my view/opinion:
1) A "short" happens when a small metal particle is lodged between 2 very close pins. This condition will stay
for a while, means the Sudden Unintended Acceleration (SUA)/UA will be repeatable until that particle is clear/removed. It did not happen this way.
2) A "short" also could happen when the humidity is so high that there is water lodged between 2 very close pins. Is there any (SUA)/UA happened in very heavy rain?
I will continue in my next post of my theory/brainstorm about realistic possible causes for this SUA/UA, if you want.
Someone asked why someone who has experienced sudden unintended acceleration doesn't posted on this forum. Besides the obvious that not everybody is one Edmunds reading this forum about their car and posting, maybe some of those who experience SUA aren't able to write about it afterwords. :sick:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Is the battery in a weird place on the Sequoia? The battery for my Cadillac DTS is under the back seat.
(Reuters) - Private insurer State Farm informed a government regulator of a worrying trend of vehicle-caused accidents involving Toyota Motor Corp as far back as late 2007, an official at the company said.
"When you start to see significant claims activity that indicates that there may be widespread problems with a product, that's when you go to the NHTSA," said company spokesman Kip Diggs. "There had to have been significant activity, a noticeable trend, for that to happen."
Bloomington, Illinois-based State Farm is America's largest auto insurer, with 42.4 million auto insurance policies. That gives it a U.S. market share of roughly 18 percent, according to industry trade association the Insurance Information Institute.
Diggs said the company contacted the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in "late 2007" and had been in touch with the regulator an unspecified number of times since then.
Toyota has been hit by an embarrassing recall of more than 8 million vehicles worldwide, which has raised questions about the quality standards and credibility of the Japanese automaker.
Diggs said that the models involved in the incidents State Farm had brought to the attention of the NHTSA were "consistent with the voluntary recall undertaken by Toyota."
I did get out the soda and an old toothbrush to clean the terminal. I had a can of battery terminal spray that I used. I will keep closer watch. It is just not something you see on quality batteries that are sealed. This is not a sealed battery. And the terminals are very cheap. Just one of the many places Toyota has cut costs on their vehicles over the last decade.
How is that any different than what GM has done for the last several decades :confuse:
I am not saying this is ok but the big three have been doing this for years :sick:
I am not saying this is ok but the big three have been doing this for years
You are right. And what did it get them? GM and C are bankrupt. And Ford through better management may make it. Toyota is morally bankrupt. If it takes them into financial bankruptcy they have no one to blame but their own corrupt policies. I don't think what any of them have done over the last 4 decades can be defended. Toyota just happens to be the last one caught.
Then as the gentleman walks into police station with the trooper says" I'm not driving the damn thing again".
Sounds like a good way to walk away from payments.Yes, this is all conjecture, but think about it.
I was wondering why he might fake it, and it WAS a fake job.
Maybe he just wanted out of the payment. HHHMMM......