Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited March 2010
    Do blogs really have plants on sites???

    Only if you believe the conspiracists/haters. I go to bat for Toyota only because I've owned 3 (2 currently) that have been impeccable. You can count a 4th if you include the '75 Corolla my wife brought into our marriage.
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    Did NHTSA make a final decision yet about Sikes incident??? I have not seen anything yet.
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    Bankruptcy was filed June 2008. We are almost two years later.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dealer franchises are independently owned, and I doubt they would do repo work for Toyota Financial Services.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Like Sharon (I think) said, he'd need a car to get to work.

    This guy runs an adult content web site, probably out of his basement.

    He needs a pair of Nikes, not a Prius, to get to work. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thank you for the detailed explanation, sharon. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pardon my multiple replies, a lot's been written and I'm taking the time to thoughtfully respond to each post.

    I got that sheet from Jalopnik, but I'm not sure about the dates. They fuzzed out some lines, so the only date I see is December 2007.

    20,494 original value
    19,098 balance

    I don't have the details of when the bankruptcy was filed, but that's not a lot of payments given the 1500 difference between those 2 numbers. If the claim was filed recently, he must have been behind on payments.

    If the claim was filed long ago, which seems likely given those amounts, then the "smear campaign" conspiracy theory doesn't hold much water. This was not something Toyota Financial did recently to smear his name.

    Perhaps sharon can help us shed some light, but I doubt Toyota Financial could have entered this claim between the day the event occurred and March 11 when Jalopnik shared it.

    I never said the lease was a hoax, not sure how you got that idea. Sorry if I was misunderstood.

    Seems Sikes cell phone was hand held & CHP report indicated he said he put down on seat, dropped etc.and then would pick up again

    Nope, read the transcript I shared. The 911 operator told him to put it in Neutral 3 times, he responded each time. When asked if he could do so, he said he could not.

    Sikes heard the question more than once, and responded in a manner that proves he understood the question.

    These findings indicate Sikes felt incident was real

    Not really, these findings indicate Sikes was under stress, just as anyone perpetrating a hoax would be. It's stressful to lie to a cop.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Take a look at the bankruptcy. Is there any mention of the heart bypass surgery bills. If he is like many self employed people I know they do not have HC insurance. He may have had to file for bankruptcy on account of medical bills.

    I am not sure what you mean by plants on blogs. Anyone can start a Web Blog and say about anything they want. That does not make it true. In fact much of the time it is half true or outright lies. Most of the time people with a blog have some agenda they want to push. They hate the IRS or are Liberal/conservative looking to make the other side look bad. I would say most posters here try to be honest. That does not mean they do not have a bias. As far as Toyota I would say this thread is just about divided 50/50 for letting them off the hook and punishing them for their perceived sins.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In case people missed it. In the first 3.5 minutes, the 911 operator asks, quote:

    911: "Is there a way you can put the car in neutral, sir?"

    Sikes: "No."

    911: "No? Have you tried to put it in neutral?"

    Sikes: "I'm trying to control the car."

    911: "Okay. Have you tried to put the car in neutral?"

    Sikes: "No."

    ***

    Listen to the audio. Sikes heard the command to put , it's very clear.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jalopnik is legit, they've been around for a long time, and are well known in the industry.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    image

    So the operator tells you 3 times to use Neutral, it's right there on an easily accessible shift knob, and you say "No"?

    Later you're interviewed, and you tell reporters that you thought it would flip the car? :confuse:

    His story just doesn't add up.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704734304575120001542947616.html

    The brakes were discolored and showed wear, but the pattern of friction suggested the driver had intermittently applied moderate pressure on the brakes

    I've been saying this, he floored the throttle with his right foot, and used left foot braking to feather the brake pedal.

    This is not some fancy computer code that only Toyota can crack, this is a physical brake pad that was analyzed and can be analyzed again. This is what NHTSA found and they know this case is under the microscope.

    To think NHTSA was lying is quite a stretch, a HUGE stretch.

    the investigation didn't find indicators of the heavy pressure described by Mr. Sikes

    Remember, Sikes claimed he was "STANDING" on the brakes, a direct quote.

    Sikes lawyer immediately goes on the defensive:

    Regardless of the outcome of the investigation, it's clear that there is a problem with these cars. We're going to wait till the inspection is complete

    Think about it. He's playing to public sympathy. He knows his case will soon fall apart, and is already coming up with a Plan B (regardless of the outcome he knows will not favor his client).

    If he knew Sikes was telling the truth, he'd say "the investigation WILL show the brake pad wear pattern is consistent with my client's story blah blah blah".

    Sikes own lawyer shows doubt.

    questions have mounted in recent days, in part because the Prius has a type of technology that pulls back on the accelerator when the brake is engaged.

    Indeed.

    There is more there, but I intentionally left out quotes by Mike Michels because he works for Toyota.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm trying to get a reliable source, but one comment in the WSJ article mentioned he not only called 911 but also had time to call his wife during the incident.

    I imagine it went something like this....

    Am I on TV yet, honey? Like the white Bronco with OJ Simpson? We're gonna be RICH! Quick, hire a lawyer.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    To think NHTSA was lying is quite a stretch, a HUGE stretch.

    The NHTSA has not jumped on the Toyota bandwagon. You keep referring to that OPINION piece filled with ignorance from the WSJ. They have lowered themselves to tabloid level. Here is what the NHTSA says about the incident.

    (CBS/ AP) The federal government said Monday it cannot explain a reported incident of sudden, high-speed acceleration in a Toyota Prius on a San Diego, Calif., freeway last week.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a statement that it continues to investigate but "we may never know exactly what happened with this car."

    The agency said its engineers are reviewing data from the Prius owned by James Sikes to try to understand what happened with his hybrid. But so far, NHTSA says it has not been able to find anything to explain the incident that Sikes reported.

    "They figured out very little," Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., ranking member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, told CBS' "The Early Show" Monday.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/15/business/main6299675.shtml
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2010
    From the same article:

    "In this case, knowing that we are able to push the car around the shop, it does not appear to be feasibly possible, both electronically and mechanically that his gas pedal was stuck to the floor and he was slamming on the brake at the same time," according to the memo.

    The congressional memo said both the front and rear brakes were worn and damaged by heat, consistent with Sikes saying that he stood on the brake pedal with both feet and was unable to stop the car. But if the fail-safe system worked properly, the brakes wouldn't have been damaged because power would have been cut to the wheels.

    Gomez said the best evidence that his client was frantically slamming the brakes is that a California Highway Patrol officer who was giving Sikes instructions over a loudspeaker smelled burning brakes and saw the lights on.


    I read that as Sikes could not have done what was done by holding down the gas and hitting the brakes at the same time. The NHTSA has not concluded anything at this point in time. Only the faithful and tabloids like WSJ.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited March 2010
    Toyota dealership to be green machine

    Among the building's environmentally friendly features are rainwater recyclable tiles, water-efficient landscaping and the extensive use of recycled materials.

    “What really sold me on it were the products used in the building: carpeting made out of corn; exterior wall tile that acts like a tree, with glaze that removes hydrocarbons from the atmosphere; porcelain tile made from recycled TV screens,”


    Must be a Subaru influence... :shades:
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    edited March 2010
    Seems like almost all of the last 60 or so posts have been about Sikes, his financial status, what he does for a living, etc., etc., etc. Toyota has won the PR battle, at least here.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Do blogs really have plants on sites???

    link title

    GM recruits has been on a forum blitz here at Edmunds for a couple of years now. So glaringly transparent it's eay to pick them out ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >GM recruits has been on a forum blitz here at Edmunds for a couple of years now. So glaringly transparent it's eay to pick them out

    Maybe you can share some of this information you have as to who these GM employees are?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    See this. Also mentions you-know-who.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >Also mentions you-know-who

    I thought you had left the discussion about you know whom a few days back.
    Welcome back.

    Sounds like money talked here in this article. Note that it says the accelerator was fully depressed. BUT that is what appears to happen in the runaway accelerations: the computer THINKS the accelerator is depressed.

    NOTE that the flakey computer seems to be misreading things in all these lexus-toyota runaway acclerations, and yet here because the computer THINKS the accelerator is depressed and records such on its computers, supposedly that part is working right, we are to accept that as scientific proof? :blush:

    No way. Wonder how they got the police chief to change his mind? ]

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    It is all starting to play out just as I thought it would. I still think Sikes will confess if it will keep charges from being filed against him, etc. Thanks for posting that article.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    You are making up such wild over the top stories that you are helping Toyota's cause. Thank you and please keep it up !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited March 2010
    I took the weekend off from this topic and I'm not mentioning He Who Shall Remain Nameless. Houdini's right: you want to discount Toyota, NHTSA, AND the police chief? You were a scientist in a past life, yet you insist on the "ghost in the machine" without scientific evidence?

    I'll pop in from time to time with factual information, like yesterday about two cars' different pushbutton start/stop buttons. Next week, I'll be in NYC to check out my son's 2006 Prius pushbutton and shifter and will report back about how "difficult" it is to shift into Neutral or turn off the engine.

    Now, back to work for me.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    carpeting made out of corn;

    The rats will love that.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2010
    TTAC is a rag with little to offer in the way of TRUTH. Makes Kane and his group seem like angels.

    Here is a False statement to think about.

    In the much more dubious James Sikes case, the California Highway Patrol is leaving the question open, despite findings of the NHTSA and Toyota to the contrary.

    The NHTSA has not agreed with Toyota on the Sikes runaway case.

    Feel free to post drivel from TTAC and WSJ. I will feel free to post rebuttal. It is obvious both have gotten some kind of financial support from Toyota. Probably via Exponent.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    PUFFERY- Trying to pass off wildly inaccurate statements of opinion as if they were facts. Nice try though.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2010
    Not at all. It looks like the WSJ is back peddling on their earlier statements that the NHTSA was going along with the crap from Toyota.

    NHTSA said Monday its investigators haven't found an explanation for the incident and the vehicle's braking system functioned properly upon testing. The agency noted that the front brake pads were completely gone.

    "It is rare to recreate these unintended acceleration incidents except in floor mat entrapment cases," the agency said in a statement. "We may never know exactly what happened with this car."


    PS
    My guess is, if Sikes takes it to court, Toyota will settle to avoid losing the case. They have NO evidence of a Hoax.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703909804575123380572242938.html
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks for the link.

    Read this again:

    NHTSA says it has not been able to find anything to explain the incident that Sikes reported.

    What does that really mean? Read between the lines.

    They cannot explain Sikes' story because it doesn't mesh with their findings.
  • cuti932cuti932 Member Posts: 5
    At Least 60 New Complains after Recall Repairs:

    Aurora resident Debra Christensen tells 7News that her 2010 Toyota Corolla sped out of control while she was on Interstate 70 eastbound at Havana Street Thursday afternoon......I didn't have any problems with my accelerator before they fixed it."

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is looking into at least 60 complaints from drivers who have reported sudden acceleration even after taking their Toyota in for recall repair.

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/22748911/detail.html

    Here is the nature of the SUA/UA: the Toyota ECM controller was forced to the maximum acceleration state and everything does not work as usual, including braking & brake recording, if you let the acceleration advances fast enough. How can the maid made an error for pressing the gas pedal hard all the way like racing the car until she hits the stones. Was there any emergency or panic factor to make her do that?

    Now authorities believe the Toyota car computer more than human being, with no motive to make false claim, as you read about the complains above.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Again, let's read that carefully.

    it does not appear to be feasibly possible, both electronically and mechanically that his gas pedal was stuck to the floor

    It wasn't stuck to the floor. Sikes was using his foot, it was not stuck.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    OK... That's great and all but my links were to clear up the findings of the Prius in New York. Also mentioned in the media this morning that the runaway in Cali will also be ruled a hoax.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks for sharing that link.

    There's no possibility of any distortion of this data

    Remind me never to let my housekeeper drive.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    No info to share really, you've been around here long enough remember 62vette? Daily pro-GM propoganda machine even as the ship was capsizing. But one example...

    But I'll digress, this is a Toyota thread not another Government Motors debate. I merely answered the OP's question. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2010
    Thanks delray.

    Excerpt:

    Ever since the two cases went down in flames, and after police in Japan recommended that criminal charges are brought against a driver who claimed a brake failure had caused his Toyota Prius to crash into another car, reports of runaway Toyotas dropped precipitously.

    This is good.

    Let the HONEST cases be investigated. Especially those with injuries.

    Get the SCAM ARTISTS out of the way so NHTSA doesn't waste time with them.

    Skepticism is healthy.

    I can understand why people are skeptical of Toyota.

    I cannot understand why people are NOT skeptical of Sikes.

    It is totally possible that Sikes is a scam artist, yet the UA problem in Toyota is still real. Just not in Sikes' case.

    Or the housekeeper's.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Read this again:
    NHTSA says it has not been able to find anything to explain the incident that Sikes reported.
    What does that really mean? Read between the lines.


    First, that seems to be the case with most of the UA. No evidence that it did or did not occur. Where did that statement from the NHTSA come from? Sadly we do not get any names attached to any statements from the NHTSA. Unless a name at the NHTSA is attached, it could be anonymous, and not of much value except to the conspiracy bunch, that believe Toyota is being secretly railroaded by Government Motors insiders.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's see when the report is published.

    NHTSA can't come out and say, in writing, that Sikes is a liar, but that statement basically says what Sikes reported cannot be explained.

    Think about it.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited March 2010
    You're welcome. Yes, we need skepticism -- that's the scientist's way. Testimony in and of itself is not science. Otherwise, we'd still be living in caves.

    I've been reading The Truth About Cars for about 4 years now. They don't pull any punches and are beholden to no one, Toyota included. Also check out Joe Sherlock's site -- I don't agree with his politics but his views on cars and the economy are generally right on the money. Scroll down for his opinions on Toyota sudden acceleration.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is totally possible that Sikes is a scam artist, yet the UA problem in Toyota is still real. Just not in Sikes' case.

    I agree that Sikes could be a scam artist. Just no good evidence of any value to back that up. It would be the CHP eyewitness account against a very dubious data dump by Toyota. A data dump that in my view substantiates Sikes story. You have set on Juries before. Bringing up irrelevant past issues is not admissible as evidence. Toyota knows they could not win this case. They pushed the smear campaign to put doubts in the mind of the public. Hoping to keep the faithful on their side.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >You are making up such wild over the top stories that you are helping Toyota's cause.

    If toyota-lexus had done the right thing they wouldn't have a "cause" to try to hide facts about from the public. They were confident that they could keep doing as they did from 2002 on til recently and their fanboys would argue for them.

    If we can even accept data that toyota-lexus interpreted from their wunder-komputers, then they have a problem with a pedal and brake location on a car that aren't different enough that a driver can tell they have their foot on the accelerator intead of the brake? Think about it. Poor ergonomica design if we blame all the incompetent drivers for the runaway accelerations. :blush:

    I'll bet they were blaming the drivers for the Prius' stalling running down the highway when their computers failed. Right? :P

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    >You are making up such wild over the top stories that you are helping Toyota's cause.

    If toyota-lexus had done the right thing they wouldn't have a "cause" to try to hide facts about from the public. They were confident that they could keep doing as they did from 2002 on til recently and their fanboys would argue for them.

    If we can even accept data that toyota-lexus interpreted from their wunder-komputers, then they have a problem with a pedal and brake location on a car that aren't different enough that a driver can tell they have their foot on the accelerator intead of the brake? Think about it. Poor ergonomica design if we blame all the incompetent drivers for the runaway accelerations. :blush:

    I'll bet they were blaming the drivers for the Prius' stalling running down the highway when their computers failed. Right? :P

    That sounds like a good business model to me: "The driver is always wrong."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bringing up irrelevant past issues is not admissible as evidence

    I respectfully disagree.

    Remember, NHTSA is saying Sikes' story doesn't mesh with their findings, they can't explain it.

    So it's his word, basically.

    His financials give him a motive.

    His background shows his character.

    These are 100% relevant.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Sherlock's site is Interesting. I do probably agree with him more than disagree. His bias for Toyota is showing though.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It wasn't stuck to the floor. Sikes was using his foot, it was not stuck.

    Now I look at that as neither Sikes was holding it down or was it down at all. The supposed data says the THROTTLE was wide open. It could have been electronically held wide open, which would be my guess.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,690
    Now the truth is coming out:

    It's cosmic rays!

    "An anonymous tipster whose complaint prompted regulators to look at the issue said the design of Toyota's microprocessors, memory chips and software could make them more vulnerable than those of other automakers."

    Of course it does mention toyota-lexus' designs are not hardened, but that's not really toyota-lexus' fault--it's the consumer's fault.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    There's a jump post under the hood.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    or the grease monkey who put a rubber mat from the wrong car in that Lexus.

    Yeah, right. He's probably some low-level employee who just graduated from the high school vo-tech program. You'll probably get an I-pod and $14 for a settlement.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Shoot, if he wanted to get rid of his Prius, he could've left it down in South Central with the keys in it and the engine running. But then again, gang-bangers probably have better taste than to steal a Prius.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    After the finance company repossesses the car, they will sell the car at the auto auction. Usually the finance company does not get enough money from the auction to pay off your loan. This shortfall is called a "deficiency" and you would still be legally obligated to pay the creditor the deficiency balance.

    And this is why guys who trash the vehicle to "get back at the finance company" are extreme idiots.
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