Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    I am glad to see I am not the only one that expects the dealer to take care of such items when we pay them way more than Jiffy Lube for service.

    Yes, you are right to expect better service from the dealer and to take care of such items as pending corrosion on the battery and terminals.

    However, based on that life experience, it is adviseable to double-check upon your mechanics work. I do check my oil level now everytime I get an oil change to make sure they didn't put in 3 quarts instead of 5. I don't trust any mechanics now really.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    The brake pads were worn down to bare metal. It would take more than 20 miles of light pressure to take that much off the pads.

    Assuming they were brand new to begin with.

    However, with over 50,000 miles and no ANTI TOYOTA posters or Sikes himself producing any receipts of having had a brake job done in 2010, I'll side with my assumption as being way more reasonable than yours.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    would not have gotten Sikes the FAME, the MEDIA notoriety, and publicity blitz he's gotten for faking a UA incident.

    For someone you claim wants media attention, he has sure played hard to get. Maybe looking for a big pay day from MSNBC or GMA. According to the CHP he did not even want to talk to the media at all. Seems strange for someone trying to pull a hoax for media attention.

    I stand by my prediction. Toyota will pay to keep him quiet. They got no evidence of fraud or it would be plastered on every network evening news. They are taking it out on the lady in NYC that obviously did not know how to drive her bosses Prius.
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    Then I understand you to say you do not have any medical professional license. As a California/national licensed medical professional, years of experience triaging medical emergencies I felt qualified to give a probable medical opinion. Per California EMS laws ambulance dispatch indicated and appropriate given patients documented symptoms, finding by California CHP officer who is also a professional and follows California EMS Laws. American Medical Response Ambulance would have patient documentation as well, but not released with CHP report, and also falls under California EMS Laws.

    As I said still don't know if incident really happened, as no final decision reached. Positives and negatives exist. I will evaluate when NHTSA final decision reached.

    The big picture is more important than this incident or NY accident. Both may end up be positives for Toyota. NY is. Sikes still pending.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2010
    However, with over 50,000 miles and no ANTI TOYOTA posters or Sikes himself producing any receipts of having had a brake job done in 2010, I'll side with my assumption as being way more reasonable than yours.

    With only 50k miles the brakes should be like new. At least according to many Prius owners. Here is the first example that came up with a quick search.

    I have NEVER had to take it to the dealer for any repairs or defects. Still on 2nd set of tires. Have replaced wiper blades once, and air filter a few times. Oil changes every 5K miles rounds it out. I thought I would have to replace the front brake disc pads after 100K miles, as my wife hits the brakes pretty heavily, but they were hardly worn.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f120221/199#MSG199
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,784
    edited March 2010
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    The problem is you are reaching conclusions based on your faulty premises and biases.

    Couldn't of Sike's medical stats and conditions have been caused by perpetrating this hoax at 90 MPH on the SD County freeways. Couldn't he of become nervous when lying to a police officer and 911 dispatcher and been thinking of the consequences of being caught or found out, which would certainly induce stress in me.

    I know everytime I'm pulled over by the Police or the CHP my blood pressure rises and I get a bit nervous. I'm sure my pulse/heart beat rise as well when I see those lights go on behind me.

    Everytime I'm in court to fight a bogus ticket, even when I have a super strong case and am totally in the right, I get very nervous in the intimidating court room atmosphere at the time of trial. The presence of the officer and "judge" who you know are against you is intimidating. Sikes knows he's not a friend of the CHP in this situation. However, the CHP might have been overly friendly towards him, in light of recent events, and that clouded their judgement. I'd imagine pulling off this hoax and lying to the police made Sikes very nervous too.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    Maybe Sikes TRACKED his Prius at the local race tracks with his fellow Corvette Club owners ? ;)

    That would wear out the pads faster than most Prius drivers.

    I'm sure you could get almost any brake pad to last 100K miles if you drive for that goal. However, if you are like normal people, 50,000 is a lot of mileage for a brake pad.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • chuck1919chuck1919 Member Posts: 176
    edited March 2010
    I am reading all these posts with amusement. There are those posting by those who sell competitive makes, there are those posting with underlying motives. Here are my thoughts. I drive 125 to 150 miles a day throughout Southern California. There are a massive amount of vehicles that are Camrys, Corollas, and Prius cars on the roads. As a matter of fact, the Prius can go in to carpool lanes if you were lucky enough to get a sticker.

    So the most popular cars that are on the road are those "affected" by this situation.

    Guess what? These cars would be piling in to each other by the dozens every day (based on shear numbers) if ALL of these cases of "Sudden Unintended Acceleration" were true. Toyota is the number one selling make in California.

    IS there a problem? Probably. But it's a very, very, small number that it is actually happeneing to.

    Please note-As a matter of full disclosure, my wife drives a '05 4Runner that doesn't have this issue. That does not affect my statements. My statements are based on nothing more than observations.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Good find. This really blows the speculation of lightly touching the brakes into the weeds. Anyone that is thinking straight will know this cannot be a hoax.

    If anybody wonders if the hybrid power-regeneration process actually works, here’s some proof.

    When you hit the brakes, my Prius turns the electric motor into a generator, and returns the generated power to the battery. As you increase the pedal pressure, it simply increases the field voltage in the now-generator, thus generating more electricity and concomitantly creating more drag. Only if you absolutely jam the brakes on, or reach a relatively low speed (say, about 10 MPH), will it actually engage the hydraulic brakes to stop the car.

    Therefore, it should be that your normal braking system is relatively lightly used, especially if you are a relatively careful driver, and the wear on your brake pads should be low.

    Having now almost 110,000 miles on my original pads, I went in a week ago to have a brake shop check them out, since I last looked at them about 40,000 miles ago, I figured that they must be almost shot by now. Well, to my surprise, and very much so to that of the brake shop, they found I had by wear-depth almost 50% of my pad life left. So, somewhere around 220,000 miles, I should start thinking about replacing my brakes — for the first time.


    So Sikes was not even starting to wear his brakes out before His car experienced UA. And unless the regenerative braking was not working the brakes would not be engaging the rotors while there was power to the wheels. The faithful need to see the light on Toyota. They are being played like a cheap fiddle.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,784
    if there was no warning sticker on the sun visor,some other obvious place, how would anyone know it was a potentially fatal situation?
    suv's have a sticker on the driver's side sun visor with a warning it does not handle like a car.
    if the lexus did not have any warning that an extra floor mat could kill you and all your passengers, how can you blame the non owner driver?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    For the same reason I think having warning stickers all over my vehicle is stupid. I hate all the warnings and DANGER signs and stickers on a vehicle these days. They all say the same tired things that are all just plain common sense.

    You can find it all in the Owner's manual. Frankly, I think they should require drivers to read (or at least skim through) the owner's manual before driving a vehicle.

    Shouldn't people know inherently SUV's don't handle like a car? Afterall, they aren't a car. Shouldn't you know Air bags could be dangerous? Shouldn't you know that having loose objects like floor mats in the driver's footwell compartment could be dangerous?

    I think America is way too DUMBED down and it's because of corrupt lawyers and juries that lawsuits have gone way too far.

    I love the one where a woman sues McDonald's for spilling coffee on herself. I don't want to have to pay for everyone's incompetence and stupidity.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    Now authorities believe the Toyota car computer more than human being, with no motive to make false claim, as you read about the complains above.

    Isn't it obvious the motive is to blame an accident and damages on someone other than yourself? A natural human tendency to not accept responsibility and blame.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,784
    my explorer (SUV, just to be clear) is a great handling vehicle.
    hit a pot hole or a big bump, it doesn't care, stays right were you were going, no drama.
    do i want to take it to a race track?, not really.
    it has stickers on the visor regarding how the handling is different from a car.
    i have had the opportunity to drive 'sports cars' costing over 100k as fast as i felt comfortable, due to the benevolence of a friend.
    for normal driving, i wouldn't pick the sports car.
    i have never rented a car that had the owner's manual in it.
    they cost a lot of money and can disappear pretty easily.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,784
    that age old question; are people basically good or bad?
    i think good, although some others are on the other side of the fence.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • avucarguyavucarguy Member Posts: 56
    Blaming others is the American way, even if you are at fault. Right now, Toyota is the one to blame. Gagrice with a car with over 100K miles with the brake pads not even half worn out, these pads must be made of Krytonite. If Toyota was superman, you can kill Toyota with your Kryptonite brake pads. ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I find it incredible that poor, stupid, incompetent drivers tend to buy Toyota vehicles. While I think that 100,000 miles on a set of brake pads is hard to believe, dozens of Prius owners here on Edmund's make that claim. So now we have to assume Toyota owners on average are poor drivers and lie about their brakes.

    It takes a real stretch to be one of the Toyota Faithful. The evidence against them is overwhelming. State Farm claims they have too many accidents and AAA does not recommend any Toyota as a commuter vehicle. Some folks just have blinders on.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-auto-guide24-2010mar24,0,3776930.story
  • avucarguyavucarguy Member Posts: 56
    Dude, I am not a blind fool. I would defend Honda/Nissan/Subaru if there is someone like you constantly bad mouthing them. I have owned vehicles made by these companies and have found them to be very reliable. Unlike you, I do not bad mouth a company because I do not like the price their dealer charged for an upgrade DVD for the navigation system. I do not like cocky Honda sales people, but that does not change my opinion about the good Honda cars I have owned in the past.I would not go onto the Honda site and bad mouth Honda vehicles.
    As fro the Prius brakes, it has a regenerative system and regular hydraulic system. If a person is not hard on the brake peddle, the regular braking system is not used as often. So the brake pads on a Prius or any hybrid would last longer than a regular car.
    Unlike you and some others, I do all the maintenance on my cars(brakes,oil,transmission fluids,tire rotation,belts,ect), except for major engine or transmission work. I do know disc brake pads DO NOT last 200K miles on a regular car.
    Maybe the LA times do not recommend Toyota vehicles because they do not want to get all the hate mails from Toyota haters like you. :shades:
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    I was giving my professional medical opinion of his probable medical status and the ambulance dispatch. This is not a faulty premise. Since you are not a medical professional and have no training I realize this may/can be difficult to understand. On job experience and professional training - was able to evalute the pertinent information documented CHP report.

    I'm sorry - your arguments saying he would have same symtoms even if he was playing hoax -.no. The physiological responses would be less than what occurred, and other symptoms that were documented in report supported my opinion. Have seen lots of patients that were playing the hoax. CHP is trained for attempting to recognize a hoax too, but lacks medical terminology that medical professionals would use. Still was quite thorough. Dispatch of ambulance quite appropriate per law. The Paramedic/EMT report would have helped clarify further. Medically Sikes was high risk for a possible heart attack, or stroke w presented symptoms.

    I try to give opinions. As you will note I gave Toyota positives and negatives. I don't like Exponent because I already knew of them before this started from medicine. Was quite disappointed Toyota hired them. My peers, MD's, and I discussed Exponent at length in one of our meetings, and I had also done research on them in past. Still have the bookmarked info. Not good.

    I already said I don't know if Sikes incident is real or not. None of us do at present. We just have no final decision. But when it comes to these medical issues and probable medical opinion can only give objective opinion as a licensed professional.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It was not the LA Times it was AAA insurance company. It is obvious that Toyota has something wrong in their DBW electronics. You can join the deniers or open your eyes to the truth about Toyota. They have built their auto empire on deception. They crush anyone that gets in their way. I hope you are not one of their victims.
  • mnfmnf Member Posts: 405
    Well said spoken from Toyota victim yourself i have to give you credit you call it straight ;)
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    I don't put any stock in the Triple AAA Insurance company or automobile club.

    They have stood behind red light camera's as an enforcment technique for revenue generation reasons (excuse for AAA insurance to raise your rates when you get an unconstitutional ticket from a camera), even though objective studies have shown that Red Light Camera's INCREASE the accident rates at intersections where they are installed. It has also been shown that simply lengthening the yellow light by 1 second is far more effective to reduce violations then the camara's themselves.

    Yet despite all this evidence, the AAA Automobile club betrayed it's own member drivers and supported the use of red light cameras.

    This can only be explained as caving into the greedy atrocities that all insurance companies are guilty of.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ben66ben66 Member Posts: 243
    Once again pal, I am anti-toyota NOT because of the recalls, I say it again, everyones got recalls. What I hate abt toyota is their gangster like behaviour. Lied again and again, put money ahead of lives, cover-ups, uses semi slave labor, arrogant, greedy etc.

    That is what separates toyota from the other automakers.

    Do you understand ? Its about honour vs gangsterism.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    But when it comes to these medical issues and probable medical opinion can only give objective opinion as a licensed professional.

    The fact you think a hoax wouldn't cause the same physiological responses is definitely opinion, and a seemingly unreasonable one.

    Also, don't you think there are drugs out there that could induce the same physiological responses that Sikes may have taken to enhance the hoax?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    That is what separates toyota from the other automakers.

    Do you understand ? Its about honour vs gangsterism.


    What is honorable about accepting and taking tax payer money in the form of bailouts? I find that highly dishonorable and dispicable. I think the [non-permissible content removed]'s were more honorable and morally straight than the workers at GM and Chrysler.

    If they were honorable, they'd of done the Japanese thing, and put a sword or a knife through their own guts rather than accept bailouts in order to continue their failed business models.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    It was not the LA Times it was AAA insurance company. It is obvious that Toyota has something wrong in their DBW electronics. You can join the deniers or open your eyes to the truth about Toyota. They have built their auto empire on deception. They crush anyone that gets in their way. I hope you are not one of their victims.

    Don't you think you should dump your Toyotas?
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited March 2010
    In my former '97 Camry, the car went to 109K miles before I had to have the front brake pads changed for the first time. The car was sold at 111K miles, and the rear drums still had plenty of lining left.

    I'm at 72K miles on my '04 Camry, and the front pads are still pretty thick.

    So it doesn't surprise me that Prius owners can go far more, at least with conservative driving.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't you think you should dump your Toyotas?

    Our Toyota and Lexus are both the older tried and tested technology. Not the bug riddled DBW technology Toyota currently uses. Our 21 year old LS400 still runs good and I put a new set of Michelin Primacy tires on last year. Until I find a diesel SUV I like better than the Sequoia it stays in the garage also. I would not buy a new technology Toyota for many reasons. I think it has been said before. Denso electronics are inferior and that seems to be what Toyota likes to use. I know my made in India by slave labor NAV is poor quality. Rated at the very bottom of the OEM NAV units. The only real complaint I have with the Lexus is our dealer. The same dealer that installed the wrong floor mat and killed the CHP and his family last year.
  • kenymkenym Member Posts: 405
    That is what separates toyota from the other automakers.

    Do you understand ? Its about honour vs gangsterism.


    You must have lived in another country for the last several decades.. :sick:. . Because that has been standard practice for GM Ford and Chrysler for a very long time.. :P
  • grayhair1grayhair1 Member Posts: 4
    Better be careful with those Toyotas, there are postings here about someone going to prison after killing three people driving his 1996 Toyota Camry. This occurred in a vehicle long before DBW technology. Although some people do like to blame Toyota for everything.

    For a person with your anti Toyota passion it must be difficult going to your garage every day and seeing all those Toyotas emblems.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    What year is your Sequoia? In the 2000s, right?

    What makes it "older tried and tested technology?"

    The 2005 Sequoia used a DBW throttle. Is yours older than that?

    2005 had DBW
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Mine is a 2007, last of Gen 1 Sequoias. Yes almost all vehicles have had DBW throttles for at least 10 years. It is the DBW transmission and braking that is coming under fire. Check the NHTSA ODI on the 2007 Sequoia. It has a pretty clean slate compared to all the Toyota models currently under recall. My transmission is a mechanical linkage. Slips in and out of neutral with no problem.

    This statement in your link says what I do like about our Sequoia.

    All things considered, I wouldn’t change a thing in favour of improved handling performance if it were to compromise the Sequoia’s splendid ride quality. Perhaps it’s an age thing, but I want my rack of bones jarred less and less these days, and judging by the Sequoia’s intended market, I may not be alone.

    If it had a decent CD/NAV and a diesel engine getting 30 MPG on the highway I would consider it as close to perfection as a vehicle gets.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "It is the DBW transmission and braking that is coming under fire."

    How can the throttle not be the culprit in SUA/UA ?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The throttle causes the UA, it is the poor braking or goofy transmission control that seems to be the problem in bringing the cars under control. You tell me, you are defending Toyota in this fiasco.
  • grayhair1grayhair1 Member Posts: 4
    You posted,

    "I find it incredible that poor, stupid, incompetent drivers tend to buy Toyota vehicles."

    Do you include yourself in that group since you drive Toyotas?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Well my point is, how can the transmission have anything to do with UA?

    Or the brakes, really?

    Is not UA just a "runaway throttle?"

    So why can't any Toyota with an electronic throttle have the issue, if any of them do?
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    andres3, I am so sorry you are having such a difficult time accepting Sikes medical status. My opinion is actually a medically based decision based upon the facts presented in CHP report. I gave as a licensed medical professional, w years of experience in emergency medicine.

    Yes, drugs could cause the symptoms Sikes experienced. This theory would be eliminated, because vital signs that were very high eventually returned to acceptable level in the ambulance. Not applicable Mr Sikes per CHP report. Therapuetic blood pressure dosage ineffective controlling blood pressure for the high stress experienced. Physicians monitor and establish an appropriate level for each patient. These dosages can control most daily stress experienced by patients. The high factor is always addressed in attempts to prevent significant high blood pressure detrimental effects upon other major systems and/or causing new medical condition.

    Sikes Cardiac bypass 5 way surgery indicates he had critical level cardiac damage prior to surgery. Disease progression is not elimnated miraculously following surgery. Lifestyle changes, medication, monitoring help, but do not entirely eliminate. His age 61, and his positive known medical conditions placed him - higher risk category.

    Are you also contradicting my son who is licensed California medical physician???
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    I think we should all be alarmed NHTSA is not publicly releasing detrimental information about auto manufacturers. And yes, this does include SUA/UA incidents, accidents, etc. TREAD Act is not protecting our right to know as law was in tended, Manufacturers have found legal loophole and have pressured NHTSA.

    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=e95ad39604fdaa2ded701ee- 490df42e7&rgn=div9&view=text&node=49:6.1.2.3.5.5.1.5.4&idno=49

    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title49/49c- fr512_main_02.tpl

    Isn't anyone interested how/why we may not be getting the truth about what is happening at present?
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    Auto manufacturer Toyota warned dealerships in 2002 that Camry owners were complaining about throttles surging and recommended adjustments in an electronic control unit to fix the problem, according to a document obtained by CNN.

    Attorneys released Toyota documents to CNN.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/22/toyota.throttle.warning/index.html?hpt=C1
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    That one is a "slight surge between 38 and 42 mph" not related to UA/SUA.
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    Just passing info along. Attorneys feel it is. Know they would not release all their info. Only time will reveal if case proceeds ahead or not.

    Actually legal strategy/pressure is working regarding the media news now.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So why can't any Toyota with an electronic throttle have the issue, if any of them do?
    That is a good question. The flood of UA complaints did not come until the current generation DBW systems were being used. I don't think Toyota does as much testing as in the past. They cut corners with suppliers like Denso and you get what you pay for. Add to that all the required stability, traction, and braking controls mandated and it is a recipe for problems. The more you expect from on board computers the more chances of software glitches.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That one is a "slight surge between 38 and 42 mph" not related to UA/SUA.

    There is also the surge when you are sitting at a stop light that I have experienced with my Sequoia. It could be dangerous if you do not press down on the brakes while at a stop light. I have learned to cope and accept it. Still just part of Toyota's sloppy code in their control modules. A little surge here and a little surge there, before long you got a serious surge problem. :sick:

    As is usual the Faithful will defend Toyota to the end. Or deflect to some other brand and the problems they may have.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I don't think the "current generation of DBW vehicles" covers it. There are some 2004 and 2005 models, so my guess is they had to be using an older generation than the "current" one.

    * 2005-2010 Avalon
    * 2007-2010 Camry
    * 2009-2010 Corolla
    * 2008-2010 Highlander
    * 2009-2010 Matrix
    * 2004-2009 Prius
    * 2010 Prius
    * 2009-2010 RAV4
    * 2008-2010 Sequoia
    * 2005-2010 Tacoma
    * 2007-2010 Tundra
    * 2009-2010 VENZA
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "There is also the surge when you are sitting at a stop light that I have experienced with my Sequoia."

    That situation is not related to full-speed uncontrolled acceleration.

    Wait, either yours has it or doesn't have it. Which is it?

    And remember: I had a surge once in my Honda Civic Hybrid too, which since it was a manual tranny I just shifted to neutral to "neutralize" the issue.

    'Yota is not the only carmaker with UA/SUA issues.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you notice on that list the 4Runner is missing. I think it is old generation technology as well. It is also one of the few vehicles that gained sales in Feb over last year. So people are looking at the list. So those that want a good solid SUV look at the 4Runner.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary, please. You give people too much credit. LOL LOL ROFLMBO !!

    No one looks at any recall list and decides, "That vehicle has had a recall, I can't buy it !!!"

    If that were the case, if only cars which have never had a single recall were purchased, there would be about 0 cars for sale in the USA.
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    We have 3 dealerships in my area and Toyota isn't makiny dealsin light of it's problems.She has a 2009 Camray SE,but misses her leather seats that were heated.
    We called 2 dealers and they had an SE that she wanted,but her trade in a 2009 wasn't worth much on a $2700.00 SE.She was surprised and upset.
    How much does a car like hers depreciate in 6 months? I thought the 2011 Toytas came out in September so she could trade up.
    Well, she's waiting for a while.Then she's off to buy an Audi.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    edited March 2010
    I can understand that you are well versed in gangsterism but something tells me that you don't know anything about honor ! Like I said, get over it, pal.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I would not trust anyone's medical opinion if it was based on reading a police report. Any competent medical professional would not be throwing opinions around about someone that they had never met, much less examined. The fact that you are willing to do so automatically disqualifies you.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

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