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Comments
Ah that's old news, I posted it last week: Could outer space be endangering Toyota's drivers?
I can't believe we're still discussing Sikes. One incident, true or false, does virtually nothing either way to the overall situation.
Looks like ECUs are causing potential stalling issues for 1.2 million Corolla and Matrix models: Toyota computer flaws
Toyota seems to think that unexpected stalling (SUS maybe? :shades: ), doesn't pose an unacceptable risk to safety... perhaps because it hasn't yet caused an accident? Somehow, I think it's only a matter of time.
I'm afraid this quote from the end of the article doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy with Toyota's high level policy decisions about the way to run their business either:
"In addition to the stalling cases and Toyota's handling of sudden acceleration complaints, NHTSA has three other defect probes under way into Toyota's vehicles.
Those include steering issues on 2009-10 Corolla and Matrix models, braking complaints on 2010 Prius hybrids that Toyota has issued a recall for, and stability-control problems on 2003 Sequoia SUVs."
Precisely. So they go after the deepest pockets instead of the guy who is really at fault.
LOL at the South Central idea. :shades:
I agree. Same applies to boats and houses too.
I can understand many reasons that might cause someone to inadvertently default on a loan, but none for increasing that debt out of spite.
Some people are just plain dumb and nasty, a truly unpleasant combination.
"What country is this car from?"
"...it no longer exists...but take 'er for a test drive and you'll agree, zagra vievnen slotek diev!"
(Pushing car) "PUT IT IN H!!!"
Toyota can "WANT" all they want for the police to investigate Mr. Sikes' hoax and fraud, but wanting it however badly, won't change the CHP's lazy position of not wanting to investigate it further since no injuries or damage was done. So Toyota can want it all they want, the CHP doesn't have to listen to Toyota (and won't).
So now that Vibe is the single handed reason GM failed? Give me a break. That was probably their best car under 20K :sick:
This Loan for GM will be paid back but the losses because the company was bashed with a big hammer.
There was no loan, it was a bailout by taxpayers. If it was a loan it would have come from a bank!!! The taxpayers are not in the business of providing loans for PRIVATE corporations (conflict of interest; don't you think?)
The big hammer you talk about was self induced and self inflicted due to poor workmanship, shoddy construction, shoddy build quality and assembly, and terribly engineered and designed products.
However, I do believe the more competition, the better, but not at my tax paying expense!
Do you really think he would not have "increased respirations" while perpetrating this hoax?
that person is reacting to highly stressful situation
Yeah, like lying in order to commit fraud.
just can not be medically dismissed as being fake
Agreed, but the reason he gave for being stressed was fake.
This entire post is one of the more thoughtful, analytical posts I've read in Edmunds in a long, LONG time. I agree 100%.
I've read the brake override only works at say, 1/2 pressure or more on the brake pedal. Therefore, since Sike's continually pressed the brakes on and off lightly, and had the accelerator pressed the whole time, I see no inconsistencies with an entire hoax and fraud.
You have just described Toyota to a "T", at least over the last decade. They had some chances to turn it around, but Watanabe wanted numbers more than quality. He got it and Toyoda is paying for it.
I wouldn't say EVERYONE is wrong except Toyota-Lexus. Afterall, it's only a small minority of the driver's that own such vehicles that cause accidents due to driver error and attempt to blame it on UA. What about the millions who never cause accidents or never experience UA? They are RIGHT too.
So are you a ketchup man? :P
Funny, that's exactly what Chrysler/Dodge did to me. SInce it was broken down so often and in need of repair or warranty service (or out of warranty service when that time came), I often just had the oil changes and services done regularly at the dealer while it was there for something else more serious.
They let not only the battery corrode until it was nonfunctional, but replaced the battery under warranty and got me back on the road. Unfortunately they didn't replace the cables and starter wires and then a year later after warranty expired I had to pay to replace all of those too at great cost; including new terminals.
Sikes has two feet, I don't get your point? Later will you argue his left foot is disabled so he couldn't of possibly pushed on both pedals?
I am glad to see I am not the only one that expects the dealer to take care of such items when we pay them way more than Jiffy Lube for service.
I woudln't blame the dealership for that. The driver still has the responsibility to make sure their vehicle is safe for driving before putting it on public roads. Even in a rental/loaner, the driver is responsible to make sure everything in plain sight is A-OK. The floor mats were in plain view, in plain sight, not hidden by anything (such as an engine cover or something). No excuses, driver error.
Oh that is just SOOOOOOOO wrong, Gary, you know better.
The WSJ article said the wear on the pads was consistent with light pressure.
You may not agree with the source, fine, but to call it supposition is just plain wrong. We named the source openly for you.
And when did WSJ become an automotive forensics specialist source? It was supposition by the writer from ideas tossed around by the Toyota specialist. When asked for hard cold facts the Toyota representative stated they did not know how hard the peddle was depressed. If you can make your brakes smoke with light pressure I would be extremely surprised. The brake pads were worn down to bare metal. It would take more than 20 miles of light pressure to take that much off the pads.
Anyway, on this quote:
"The brake pads were worn down to bare metal."
So were my rear brakes on my TCH last time I had a brake job done, and I did not know, and I did not have an emergency (fake one) braking incident.
So the fact that the brake pads were worn down to nothing PROVES NOTHING in relation to his "incident."
Toyota would be wise to give Sikes a new Lexus and get him to sign a non disclosure and fast. One of these days Sikes will open up to the press and the whole thing will be out on the national news and Toyota will not end up the winner.
C'mon Gary, it appears your anti-Toyota bias might be clouding your usually good judgment.
PS
When the Toyota people were first looking at Sikes Prius they said it was impossible for that scenario to happen with the override in the Prius.
(1)Lease a hoax - I somehow understood you statement to imply this. Sorry. Thanks for clarifying.
(2)RE: putting into Neutral - 911 tape - no Sikes would not put into neutral or shut auto off - CHP report indicates Sikes states he was scared to shut off or put in neutral. Felt he would lose control of auto. I had mentioned he may have dropped his hand held cell phone as report indicated Sikes reported this - seems you found he actually answered 911 operator. Etc. It may be due to the Human Factors that can come to be "reality" and NHTSA has ongoing research into this factor. As I said yesterday - I don't know 100% what truly happened during the incident as I wasn't there. And no one can really say 100% what truly happened as not there. We are all humans and in emergencies many people do not do what they would normally do. Some people perform well in emergency stressful situations. I had posted human factor info in a prior blog. Different categories do exist. And is always highly debatable. College majors exist in this field and research in this area. NHTSA is doing research regarding all of this.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/template.MAXIMIZE/menuitem.5928da45f99592- 381601031046108a0c/?javax.portlet.tpst=4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_ws_MX&ja- vax.portlet.prp_4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_viewID=detail_view&itemID=e18ef- 3cb2eec0210VgnVCM1000002fd17898RCRD&viewType=standard
Human factors are/must always be considered. It's not just autos ands how they are developed, etc.. These human factors are always considered police- officers + victim + criminals + public, fire department agencies -employees + public + victim, etc., protection/emergencies/evacuation, medical/hospital emergency situations - patient + employees + family + public, medical emergency ambulance/fire response- employees + patient + family + public, building codes for emergency evacuation, etc, etc, etc.. Is present all around us. Involves emloyees as well as those involved/around/etc..
(3)MEDICAL STATUS - per CHP report
Once stopped CHP officer Neibert went to vehicle and Sikes was visibly shaking & breathing deeply, eyes wide open and had the look of somebody who was really scared from situation . He appeared to be in shock. USBP agent that was present at scene immediately after incident took BP & pulse while Sikes still sitting in auto. Sikes stated he thought he was ok.
Neibert asked if he had any known medical condition.
Mr. Sikes related:
High Blood Pressue - daily rx
Hx Cardiac Bypass Surgery - 5 way - 5 yrs ago
C/O - some chest tightness
CHP Officer Neibert - dispatched for ambulance response to scene to evaluate patient condition - c/o chest tightness - medical conditions - high pressure & hx bypass surgery.
AMR - American Medical Response Ambulance w Paramedic/EMT- responded - arrived at scene
Neibert report -
Paramedic/EMT medical evaluation - BP & pulse & respirations "quite" elevated - w frequent monitor BP & pulse & respirations & patent symtoms, verbal questions, etc. - vital signs(BP & pulse & respirations) gradually decreased acceptable level - patient stated felt ok & denied chest pressure - patient not transported. EMT/Paramedic report would be available & documented but was not released with CHP report.
RN Medical observation from/per CHP report - chest pressure w known existing high blood pressure w rx therapy & positive hx cardiac bypass surgery 5 way 5 yrs ago , increased respirations, very high pulse rate, very high blood pressure, + initial apparent symptoms noticed/evaluated by Neibert(mentioned above), age factor - was higher risk possible heart attack, stroke, etc. Ambulance w paramedics/EMT dispatch to scene appropriate & indicated. All symptoms & the CHP presented events evaluated together medically indicate probable cause is result of very stressful event/experience.
(4)How this incident will be finally decided - Toyota made preliminary statements at press conference - indicating their findings don't show how it could have happened & was inconsistant w Sikes story.- used/pushed on brake 254 times, etc. Acelerator was wide open & did not show if foot on accelerator. Etc. NHTSA indicated in their preliminary statement said they may never know. Vehicle operated normally when tested. Etc. NHTSA final report still pending as far as I am aware. Toyota and NHTSA states brakes were worn. Front brakes gone- metal. Back brakes worn down, but appeared to still be functionable, but not sure to what degree. One report had each, but can't verify reports. Saw AP news report from that prior weekend back worn down alot too, but still not actually a verified report. That report revealed memo said pads were burned. Saw two others as well. Have bookmarked.
(5)Sikes - 2008 Bankruptcy - think we discussed this already - bankruptcy should have already been resolved - court, as now 2 years later. Toyota Financial Services should have had their claim resolved and Sikes would have had to follow court order/decisions how he planned/agreed to keep auto. Sent options blogs yesterday. Auto would have been seized by Toyota if not resolved. Since Sikes still has vehicle assume court order/decision followed. Auto payments not made vehicle would be seized.
(6)CHP investigation & report appears to closed for now. If findings reveal was hoax then case would be reopened. Possible charges could be filed against Sikes. Guess any reopening case pending final decision.
(6)Sikes incident is only a small piece of the bigger picture. I feel I probably would not like him as a person if claims are true. But I can see where it may have happened. Positives and negatives do exist per report. Sikes incident and the NY accident have been good for Toyota. NY accident has gone in Toyota's favor. Driver was to blame. Final decision will come regarding Sikes. Hope NHTSA can give an honest forthright opinion/decision legally. Some legal issues do exist per their legal counsel and statutes.
(7) I am more interested in the bigger issues. All the events that have occurred and the detrimental findings that have been brought forward. Toyota - has negatives and positives. Yes, and SUA/UA exists with other manufacturers too. Hope these manufcturers are treading lightly- dealing with any problems they have. I am concerned for all of our rights as consumers and our right to know about the problems. NHTSA doesn't publicly release all information given by auto manufacturers. Auto manufacturers claim confidential information and is allowed per NHTSA legal counsel opinion. NHTSA the government agency not revealing detrimental information makes all much more difficult for public to evaluate. Manufacturers legally protect themselves- sometimes not fai
Nonsense!!!
The manual says nothing that would lead one to conclude shifting into neutral would "flip the car."
According to Jalopnik, the service agent who went to get his car used the remote starter, which would be fine, normally. But the car was in gear - with the parking brake off. The car shot through the parking space, through a chain-link fence and straight into a holding pond, where it sank. The car is apprently totalled.
Because the parking brake was off and there was no safety switch for the system, the dealership claims they have no responsibility for the damages incurred. Both sides are awaiting word form their insurance firms.
PS. Gary, I would defend Toyota,Honda, Nissan,Subaru or any auto company that I have good experience with their car's good reliability from people falsely attacking their reputation. By the way, have you checked out Edmund's article on Toyota's SUA with the Camry. Apparently Edmunds had no trouble stopping the Camry with the WOT position.
Okay, so it appears you are right about the "take it out of gear comment by the 911 operator
nmt001 responded with:
Even though they mean the same thing, take the car out of gear is not the proper way to tell drivers in a frantic situation to "shift the gear to neutral" especially when it is in a question like " Is there a way for you to take the car out gear?"
Except nmt001 was not right about that.
The entire uncut 911 audio is now available.
In the first 3.5 minutes, the 911 operator asks, quote:
911: "Is there a way you can put the car in neutral, sir?"
Sikes: "No."
911: "No? Have you tried to put it in neutral?"
Sikes: "I'm trying to control the car."
911: "Okay. Have you tried to put the car in neutral?"
Sikes: "No."
So he wasn't only asked to take it out of gear, he was specifically asked to put it in neutral at least three times.
I had a strong feeling that everything NMT001 posted in these forums was dishonest, incorrect, and inaccurate; now you have proven me right. All he does is come up with excuses for why Toyota's are bad and these driver's are innocent and blameless when they cause wrecks that were entirely avoidable.
I prefer that statements be factual myself.
Nice deflection. No one said the manual would give any idea that the car would flip. It said it could damage the HSD system which is a very expensive to repair. I personally doubt he read the manual as that is only for people with some kind of weird quirk. I have never read a manual in a dozen new vehicles I have bought.. I look for information on setting the clock or oil change schedule. If the vehicle is not intuitive I don't like it to start with. I did not like the shifter on either the Mercedes or the BMW X5. Same screwy DBW crap Toyota is selling now. In fact I may never buy a new vehicle with the direction they are headed. I would not trust my life to this computer I am typing on. So why should I trust a flaky computer in a car to make all my driving decisions? It leads to situations that Toyota is facing now with all the UA incidents. Which I happen to believe are real.
Here is what we all need to be concerned about. We are not getting all information from NHTSA. This is about all auto manufacturers and any detrimental information about a manufacturer. Note - submitted consumer complaints filed with dealerships may be kept confidential. So yes, it would involve any detrimental information about Toyota too. Information is kept from public. NHTSA legal counsel has given his opinion. TREAD was susposed to protect all of us consumers, but legal loophole has been found. Will not be posted in data base and will not be released..
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title49/49c- fr512_main_02.tpl
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=61450daf5091537df855f53- 9f924774e&rgn=div9&view=text&node=49:6.1.2.3.5.5.1.5.4&idno=49
Hope all of you can realize the significance/impact of this NHTSA legal counsel interpretation of the law.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/03/15/how-do-you-stop-a-toyota-hybrid-myth-v-- fact/
JD Power is irrelevant but they are #7 in it because they were so far above everyone else for a good while (except maybe Honda). They could fall much farther still, and still be WAY above most automakers.
Toyota may have bought JD powers, but I'm sure the Big 3 have paid JD POwers more than Toyota over the years.
CR is never for sale, and always accurate.
If the witnesses saw no brake lights, that doesn't sound like UA to me. At least Sikes was witnessed to have feathered the brake a few times to make it look more like UA. No brake lights means you were having very much intended acceleration.
Are you really that naive? CR accepts donations from auto companies. Someone posted their annual report and most of the money came from corporate donations. Your subscription does not pay for the printing and postage.
Trust them if you like. You will get more from digging on Edmund's than CR.
Was he trying to get car wash to pay for vehicle damages?
But that type of insurance fraud would not have gotten Sikes the FAME, the MEDIA notoriety, and publicity blitz he's gotten for faking a UA incident.
Also, the penalties for insurance fraud are probably 100 times harsher than for faking a media hoax (balloon boy father only got 90 days in jail I think).