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I assume that this is in reference to me...it's not fair to use my views to rebut something that lemko has posted, just because the two of us are friends and live in the same state. If he believes that 90 mph constitutes "hurtling" down the highway, he's entitled to hold that view.
I can certainly defend my views on this site, but I don't recall lemko having an opinion as to what constitutes a safe speed on limited access highways.
Please don't attribute my views to him, or insinuate that because I've posted something, he automatically agrees with it.
That's not fair to lemko.
176kph is a very low speed, eh?
Makes no difference, BLAME TOYOTA!
Captains of industry can get away with saying "Never complain. Never explain."
The rest of us - not so much.
oh so that is when Ford Motor Companies troubles began!
I came to Edmunds to read about cars and people's experience with them because I love cars and work on my own cars.
I like most of the editorial comment here at Edmunds. But, I'm also not naive enough to not understand the effect bad publicity would affect their advertising revenues with any given company, either.
By the way, I agree with you about Motor Trend. It's been decades since they've been relevant. However, they do have that whole marketing bonanza "Car of the Year" thing they've been riding for decades too.
Regarding CR, I'll give them credit. They've removed the affected Toyota/Lexus models from their "recommended list".
Safety advocates starting with Ralph Nader have argued that dealer service bulletins can become a way for automakers to conduct "silent recalls" or to keep problems from the public view even as they work to correct them."
Toyota used ‘secret recalls’ for floor mat issues (MSNBC)
Forums like these do help - we share information and if someone with a similar brand has the same model you can get insider information. Example: 98 Subaru Foresters had a TSB for manual transmissions popping out of first gear. It was so rare that I didn't even think about it until it happened after I read about the TSB. Dealer fixed it at no charge when I showed him the bulletin.
Without the TSB I blamed myself for a mis-shift. I may never have fixed it.
That knowledge should not be limited to just insiders.
I am quite suspicious of secretive companies, especially when it comes to safety matters like black boxes. Nissan have their share of problems of course (who doesn't), but at least I don't hear them behaving like gangsters. I am talking about the new Nissan under new management, not the old Nissan which in 1999 almost went bust.
And don't judge Nissan's reliability by jd power's ranking. By now I don't take those rankings seriously. More than 8 million toyotas are recalled and its now known that they have many issues way back years ago, and they have the most cases of SUA among all carmekers, just that its covered up all these while.
And yet jd power and consumer reports gave them top marks ? Don't you find that strange ? Hmm.
Hyundai maybe good (then again its jd power who said so, I don't know how true is that), but on the other hand, at times their CEO from time to time got into trouble with Korean law authorities for bribery, political scandals and so on. So right now, it appears to me that Nissan, even though some people agree with jd power that they are not the best quality, at least their corporate behaviour is pretty OK all these years !
And think about this : They are now the no.1 Japanese brand in the big China car market, and their sales volumes are similar to honda in Japan. They CAN't be THAT bad as jd power and consumer reports made them out to be, right ?
My only guess is all these while Nissan does not contribute much to jd power and consumer report's pocket, so they got only average ranking all these while.
And MUCH quicker to depreciate than the Camry they will be trading, even post-Toyota-SUA. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They also mentioned that the potential costs of the other class action suits pending against Toyota are in the range of $10-25 billion. I think Toyota could probably weather a $25 billion payout, but not the damage to their image if they end up losing all those suits.
It's funny, I check in on this thread from time to time and have done for quite a while. Most of the time making a post in here was like dropping a rock in a well - it sank to the bottom never to be heard from again, certainly never to be responded to. Then Sikes hysteria started and now its 1000 posts a week! Feast or famine, those are the only choices I guess...
:-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
UA has not been replicated on demand.
I'm not sure I'd point to them as the most likely to address any defects no matter the cost.
All automakers are about profit, just ask any shareholder if that's not true.
As I showed, it was all those Toyota Haters jumping to conclusions.
I think the Brooklyn Bridge called and asked for its missing "rivet" back. :P
I am surprised too. If you ask me, those lawyers bringing this lawsuit should be thrown in jail for 10 years for frivolous fraudulent law suits.
There is no reason to sue the car maker for resale value. They don't control it, the public does. If they should sue anyone, it should be the hysterical American people for driving down resale values.
It's complete non-sense. But if it works, then I should be able to EASILY sue the banks, wall street, and the gov't for my depreciated home value here in San Diego County. Afterall, if it wasn't for their reckless lending practices......
Suing for lost resale value is dumb. There is no loss unless they actually sell the car. From the little I remember from my Business Law/Tort class, you can't sue for potential future losses. AFterall, the value could go up next month and the lawsuits would really be meaningless, not that they aren't already. I think this excuse is stretched and twisted to help insurance companies get out of paying for diminished value.
toyota-lexus is being so proper, asking that they "prefer" a single lawsuit to their advantage...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"The analysis showed 11.7% of the vehicle components named in driver complaints to NHTSA about Toyota-made vehicles in that period were in the safety agency's "vehicle speed control" category. That is the NHTSA complaint category that covers most incidents of unintended acceleration, the problem underlying Toyota's huge recalls in recent months."
But toyota-lexus whines: "Toyota said that it disputes USA TODAY's analysis, because the NHTSA data are polluted by what Toyota says would be "a variety of non-UA (unintended-acceleration) events" listed in NHTSA's "vehicle speed control" category. The automaker said it "disagrees with both the methodology and implications suggested by USA TODAY's analyses," and said, "Toyota has substantially superior performance in terms of complaints to NHTSA.""
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I just bet they would like that. Hopefully the attorneys for the Plaintiffs do not fall for that nonsense. Each case needs to be weighed on its own merit. That would not happen in the Winner takes All Crap shoot Toyota prefers. They want a central location, why not Detroit? :P
I have an 07 Sienna and searched NHTSA's ODI for complaints, and found 66:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/index.cfm
Then I searched for my 2nd choice, the 2007 Honda Odyssey, and I found 216 complaints. Two for UA on the first page.
No vehicle is perfect, but I'd take the same odds again, and buy another Sienna.
I think you should take a look at the 2007 Camry if you want to see a lot of unhappy owners complaints. Hundreds for speed control alone. Brakes, Steering and suspension also causing problems. With claims now of over 100 deaths attributed to Toyota SUA, they better get busy and find their problems. Spending money on attorneys and PR will not fix the problems. The Faithful Few in the media and blogs will not be enough to turn the tide of distrust in Toyota vehicles. Will the problems translate into lost sales. I think the incentives will help there. It will not help in the courts of law and Toyota's bottom line.
I'm sure if you research any given model enough someone on the fence would not buy anything.
***
On that note - for the conspiracy theorists - maybe Toyota planted Sikes. It may have been a setup from the get-go. Get all your opponents behind Sikes, then slowly leak out info on him and swing the public against him, and bounce back. Think about it.
I said it before and I'll repeat it here - it is entirely possible that the whole Sikes thing was a scam, yet the UA problem still exists.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-03-14-lawyer-refutes-runaway-prius-doub- ts_N.htm
The only problem? I hit the accelerator instead. HARD.
Read the rest of it.
So Sikes' attorney, and who knows why he even has one given he swore up and down he would not sue, "dismissed a congressional memo".
So NHTSA and congress and Toyota are lying and ONLY the porn peddler is telling the truth!
They also say Sikes:
told reporters that he tried to pull on the gas pedal during his harrowing ride, but it didn't "move at all."
So it was physically stuck? If so, this case isn't even about the electronics.
at least two systems would have to fail simultaneously...The chance of them both going wrong, plus the fact that the signal is bad, it just seems very, very, very remote
3 verys, for anyone counting.
We know for a fact that Congressmen, NHTSA and Toyota have lied. Let's say Sikes has lied. That leaves the CHP who we do not know if he has lied. That makes it a pretty safe bet in court for Sikes. He does not even have to testify. Toyota will settle with him to keep his testimony out of court.
he tried to pull on the gas pedal during his harrowing ride, but it didn't "move at all."
Maybe it was not down at all. Making a better case for electronic failure. It is really irrelevant because Toyota will settle with him for pain and suffering. Remember who told you when it happens.
Maybe it was not down at all
Wrong, it did not "MOVE AT ALL", that means up or down. So he alleges it was physically stuck in one position and would not move at all, not just move up.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You are dreaming. If he was smart enough to pull off a hoax like you all claim. He is smart enough to fool a judge and jury. Though it will never go to court. Toyota does not want that wound opened up again. You will not hear anymore from Toyota on it.
$100k and let him out of his lease and you will not hear from Sikes again. Though we have not heard a word from him since the day it happened.
Toyota hired Sikes, this whole incident was staged. They agreed to pay him a fixed sum if he'd be the star witness for the UA supporters.
He goes down in flames, the pendulum of public opinion swings back in favor of Toyota, sales are up 80%.
Genius.
At least my conspiracy theory explains every part of the whole story. :P
Toyota lost control of the whole situation, so they are not making the rules anymore.
Now they have to live with a lot of random stuff, but it is their own fault.
They going to have to deal with a lot of old issues that are going to be reexamined, unhappy groups of current owners, regulatory agencies, insurance companies and probably more.
That's just the way it is.
I hope they dismiss all these frivolous cases, as more expensive Toyota's probably means the competition will raise their prices likewise to match.
Toyota's legal issues belong to them.
Taking it further, Chrysler made minivans (Caravan and Town & Country) did not have any complaints in the 2007 model year or later where vehicles would suddenly bolt into the blue on their own like Siennas do. In the newer 5th gen versions (2008 to 2010 current model year), there were a few issues with cruise control not shutting off by tapping the brake pedal, but owners got around it by turning off the CC switch.
You're taking odds with any car, I want the odds in my favor, no matter the type of problem.