Toyota on the mend?

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited April 2010
    link title

    Government Motors - 188,011

    Toyota - 186,863

    Ford - 183,425

    It’s important to note that March 2010 sales are to be compared to those from March of 2009 - about six months after the industry took a general nosedive as consumer spending dropped sharply. Naturally, many automakers have posted massively improved numbers on paper thanks to a particularly bad year last year.

    So far, it’s a mixed bag, with the usual suspects checking in with both strong and weak showings; Ford and Toyota have mostly recuperated to 2008 levels. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Chrysler was down 8%, though. Wow they are really hurting.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Ya, Jeep appears to be the only bright spot although Chysler sales did eak up something like 1 or 2%. There has got to be a leveling off point here somewhere...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Actually 35% for March over 2009. Ford and GM both are up 43%.

    Toyota is up for the quarter over last year by 8.7%, while Ford is up the first 3 months by 36.4% over last year. It looks like Ford has put Toyota well back into 3rd place in the US market for the YTD.

    Anyone really believe that Toyota's UA is not hurting their sales?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Ford F-Series: 42,514
    Toyota Camry: 36,623
    Toyota Corolla: 29,623
    Honda Accord: 29,120 (2,587 Crosstours)
    Toyota RAV4: 25,781
    Nissan Altima: 24,649
    Ford Fusion: 22,773
    Chevrolet Silverado: 19,822
    Ford Focus: 19,500
    Ford Escape: 19,182
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What does not make sense to me is Yaris and Scion. Every model is in the toilet for March. Down 23-30% in sales from year ago March. Yet none were on the recall list. Are they all be phased out or just no incentives? All Yaris and Scion combined only sold 8200 vehicles.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Actually, I believe NASA is investigating UA and potential electronic issues on various vehicles. Part of it is probably politics and part is because there have been more UA incidents in general over the past few years. Sometimes I've got to wonder if part of the issue is how smooth and quick most cars are today? You screw up on the pedal and it gets ugly very fast. Seems to me I read about a car smacking into a building or a pond of water every few weeks anymore and they aren't all Toyota's. However, I do think today's Camry is yesterday's 88, Le Sabre or Grand Marquis.
  • grayhair1grayhair1 Member Posts: 4
    Wow, 3 out of the top 5 are Toyota's. What happened to all the doom and gloomers. Looks like buyers are realizing that the UA has been overhyped by the media and those trying to cash in with fake claims.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    Chrysler was down 8%, though. Wow they are really hurting.

    Revenge is a dish best served cold.

    Cold dishes for Chrysler make me happy :);)
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • junkyardogjunkyardog Member Posts: 44
    Toyota up 24% Canada, 40% States and 50% Japan, doesn't sound like they will hurt long.

    Toyota Japan sales booming despite recalls amid recovery in overall market
    April 1st 2010, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    Toyota Motor Corp. sales in Japan totalled 204,514 vehicles, up from 135,700 the same month last year, for the eighth straight month of on-year rise, the Japan Automobile Dealers Association said Thursday.

    Japan's auto sales have been recovering, with sales jumping 10 per cent in the year ending in March from the same period a year earlier to 3.2 million vehicles, according to the group. It said that was the first year-on-year increase in seven years.

    Sales have gotten a lift from government tax breaks and incentives for fuel-efficient vehicles, helping a recovery from a sharp slowdown the past year.

    Overnight, Toyota Group Vice-President Bob Carter told The Associated Press that Toyota's U.S. sales surged 40 per cent in March, as the automaker offered its biggest incentives ever, including zero-per cent financing on models that previously were subject to recalls, low-priced
  • robretrobret Member Posts: 1
    My daughter was in a low mileage collision a year ago with this car. Said the car would not stop after slamming on the brakes. Not much time to react. The other car suffered only a shift in their bumper and minor scratches. The Corolla suffered $6,000 in body damage. No deployment of the air bags. My insurance paid for the whole thing. Now toyota wants to cancel my car warranty due to the accident. A timing chain broke. By the way this is a Year later. They said they will complete the safety recall tasks on it. One Accelerator and one brake recall. Anyone know of a good Attorney. I only want them to make the car safe and repair the timing chain. Someone needs to hold Toyota accountable on this. Perhaps they are trying to recoup some of the costs the recalls are costing. Bad idea! Can you believe this.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited April 2010
    Chrysler is dead to me!

    Chrysler = The Lost Cause

    I wouldn't get a Chrysler product if it was the only car maker left on this whole planet. I'd rather be a bum and walk everywhere!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I still like the Jeep Wrangler. I never think of Jeep as being a Chrysler. Toyota could buy Jeep and get rid of that worthless FJ Cruiser.
  • avucarguyavucarguy Member Posts: 56
    $6000 worth of repair does not seem like light damage. With a front end collision, there maybe unseen damage to the engine or weaken certain engine parts enough that they may fail prematurely. A timing chain is meant to last the life of the car.
    My 98 Altima was hit from behind at a red light by an old 70's American car in 03. The guy's bumper was only slightly dented while my car suffered a cracked bumper cover, cracked absorbing element(a large plastic honey comb piece behind the bumper cover), a broken tail light and dented trunk cover and a bunch of small parts they mentioned on the estimate. My point is it depends on what kind/size vehicle your daughter hit. A smaller car like a corolla would definitely suffer more damage if it hit a larger car, truck, or SUV. With all this damage to my 98 Altima, the highest estimate to repair the car was $1850(the lowest was $1500). So $6000 seems like quite a bit of damage to a vehicle.
    You may be able to find another Toyota dealership that may honor the repair of the busted timing chain. I would think this would be a cheaper alternative than hiring a lawyer.
    Toyota would definitely be wrong not to cover the repair if the car was not involved in an accident. However, a front end collision like the one your daughter was in might change the whole equation.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited April 2010
    Sales By Manufacturer for March 2010

    1) GM: 188,546
    2) Toyota: 186,863
    3) Ford: 183,783
    4) Honda: 108,262
    5) Nissan: 95,468
    6) Chrysler: 92,623

    Mid-Size Sedans for March 2010

    1) Toyota Camry: 36,251
    2) Honda Accord: 29,120
    3) Nissan Altima: 24,649
    4) Ford Fusion: 22,773
    5) Hyundai Sonata: 18,935
    6) Chevrolet Malibu: 17,750

    Entry-Level Luxury Sedans for March 2010

    1) BMW 3-Series: 9,413
    2) Mercedes C-Class: 6,006
    3) Infiniti G Sedan: 4,021
    4) Acura TL: 3,917
    5) Lexus ES350: 3,860
    6) Audi A4: 3,058
    7) Cadillac CTS: 2,870
    8) Lincoln MKZ: 2,456

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I think with these numbers, Toyota IS on the mend for 2010!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They bounced back pretty quickly, too.

    The industry was up 24% but Toyota was up 41% for the month, so they outpaced the industry by a wide margin.

    And remember, the other big players had huge incentives, too - Automotive News says "industry averaged $2,910 per vehicle" per JD Powers numbers, or $2,742 per Edmunds (they don't include cash that automakers give dealers for meeting sales volume objectives).

    No matter which source you trust, that number is huge.

    Source:

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100401/RETAIL01/100409982/1- 401
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So they did even better than Toyota did.

    AN headline reads:

    DAILY: Lexus surges in March, passes Mercedes in '10 U.S. luxury race
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Lexus surges

    Interesting word choice. :)
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    Sorry, couldn't resist repeating that mantra of marketing genius.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,818
    to me it says the playing field is pretty level.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    What does not make sense to me is Yaris and Scion. Every model is in the toilet for March. Down 23-30% in sales from year ago March. Yet none were on the recall list. Are they all be phased out or just no incentives? All Yaris and Scion combined only sold 8200 vehicles

    Yaris and Scion are built in Japan = much lower profit for Toyota = less discounting AND less imported for sale in the U.S. vs the virtually unlimited supply of Corollas and Camrys.

    They DID offer the same 0% financing on Yaris as on the larger cars though.

    On a side note, the last Corolla rolled off the line at NUMMI yesterday. It was red, and will be shipped to the Toyota museum in Japan. NUMMI is now closed for business, and 4700 people are wondering tonight where their next job will be....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Those UAW workers knew this day was coming soon. The smart ones started saving the big bucks and taking courses to make a career change. Building automobiles in the USA is not ever going to be a great paying job again. They better head to Med school. We are going to have a big shortage of doctors in the next 10 years.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Don't worry, NUMMI will soon be razed to make way for a Mega Wal~Mart where all those former autoworkers can make 1/4 the pay selling crappy Chinese goods. Ain't globalization grand?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't worry, NUMMI will soon be razed to make way for a Mega Wal~Mart

    It is getting a bit long in the tooth. GM opened the factory in 1962. Closed it in 1982 and re-opened with Toyota in 1984. I would say it is time to tear it down and build a foot ball stadium or some such nonsense. :sick:

    Fremont could take it over and make it the World's largest indoor Flea Market. The options are endless. Similar to closing a military base. Happens all the time. I do not blame Toyota for closing down. Toyota has a glut of manufacturing facilities in the USA.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    Here's the sales volume and % change of the US light vehicles:

    Rank Company YTD 2010 % change Market share
    1 General Motors 475,861 16% 18.7%
    2 Ford Motor Co. 441,708 37% 17.4%
    3 Toyota 385,686 7% 15.1%
    4 Honda (American) 256,412 11% 10.1%
    5 Chrysler Group LLC 234,215 -5% 9.2%
    6 Nissan 228,229 31% 9.0%
    7 Hyundai Group 188,205 14% 7.4%
    8 VW 79,909 37% 3.1%
    9 Subaru 57,494 38% 2.3%
    10 Mazda 55,941 4% 2.2%
    11 BMW Group 55,129 7% 2.2%
    12 Daimler AG 51,996 15% 2.0%
    13 Mitsubishi 13,623 -2% 0.5%
    14 Jaguar Land Rover 9,091 6% 0.4%
    15 Suzuki 5,661 -63% 0.2%
    16 Porsche 5,222 6% 0.2%
    17 Other (estimate) 882 -4% 0.0%
    18 Maserati 394 44% 0.0%
    19 Saab Spyker 133 0.0%
    20 Isuzu -100% 0.0%

    TOTAL 2,545,791 15%

    Note that the GM and Ford's YTD growth are both higher than the market average (15%); while Toyota and Honda are both lower than market average.

    In Mar, even with desperate incentives, Toyota' growth (40%) is still behind GM and Ford's 43% each (core brands). Let's see how long Toyota's incentives can last and what happens after that.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It looks like Nissan cashed in on the Toyota recalls. While Honda was drug down by them. Ford being the big winner in the Toyota UA recalls.

    The Big question? Can Toyota regain the market share they have lost in 2010? The don't have much new to offer. And are still being scrutinized closely by the US Consumers.

    With 20% unemployed or under employed the bargain hunters will be the major consumers.
  • margiepriusmargieprius Member Posts: 7
    My situation is this, I bought my Prius in May of 2009, the first 2010 Prius sold by the dealer. Within one month I had brought the car in to report a pause in braking while slowing down over a rough road surface. The car went in three times, each time I was told the car is functioning properly, as it was designed. On one visit, after I threatened to hold them liable when I hit something or someone rears ends me due to having to slam on the brakes to bypass the braking pause, a "hybrid" expert explained to me the entire system and that drivers learn how to work around the problem. Me and My Prius appeared nationally on CBS during the media crisis, and I was notified of a recall to "fix" the braking system. My Prius was "fixed" and now the car handles worse than ever- any pothole while slowing down the car shakes and feels like it accelerates over the pot hole, bump or rough surface. I have brought it back to the dealer and filed a complaint with the NHTS. The dealers "expert" was back and informed me this is normal, and if I attempt to return the car under my lemon law, he can bring in 10 cars that all function just like mine. My husband, and my daughters have all experienced the poor handling slowing over a bump. Just last week waiting to pick up my daughters at school we started chatting with another 2010 Prius owner, he has the same problem. Something is wrong in the braking, abs or some system within the car, it would make sense for Toyota to solve the problem instead of treating their customers like they are making it all up. I have a yaris, a prius, and two scions- I wonder if Honda or actually even Ford might appreciate a brand loyal customer. To be told this is what you get from the car is just crazy, and that toyota refuses to acknowledge the problem is just rude and putting all drivers at risk. Shame on you Toyota-
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    I didn't mention Ford and GM's Feb. incentives because the story was about how many sales Toy. was going to make in March. Toy's discounts in March are relevant; Ford's and GM's discounts a month earlier are not.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    You don't sound like a loyal Toyota customer. Everything you've described would be easily noticeable during a routine test drive before purchasing the vehicle; yet you purchased it anyway, only to complain about it afterward.

    If you can feel the problem during the test drive, there's no reason to complain about it later.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Yeah, that will teach her to never, ever buy a Toyota again. :P
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,700
    edited April 2010
    Since most people don't take a new car on a test drive and go out looking for a rough road on which to apply the brakes adequately to check for a brake hesitation, I wouldn't place credence in a criticism that it's your fault you bought a toyota-lexus.

    I'd keep complaining and in fact I'd contact the local media, such as the TV group that loves to take innocent-looking consumer faces in front of a camera and tell their story. It's even more effective if children or pets can be worked into the story to make it appeal to even more viewers on the evening news. Offer to let their consumer expert (usually a talking head) take the car onto a rough road and apply the brakes with the cameraman in the car along with the TV driver. Be sure to have the young folk involved. I am dead serious about contacting the local stations.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    To be told this is what you get from the car is just crazy, and that toyota refuses to acknowledge the problem is just rude and putting all drivers at risk. Shame on you Toyota-

    Don't let the fanboys rattle you. You are not alone with the 2010 Prius issues. Get a hold of the people at CBS that did the first story. Have them do a follow up after the so called fix. Don't let the NHTSA off the hook either. I would get my Congressman involved as well. Toyota has a few people buffaloed with their cover ups and trying to discredit anyone that has a problem. I would turn that dealer into the BBB as well. In many states you are eligible for the Lemon Law after that many times. Document every visit, time and date. Make the dealer give you paperwork showing your visit. That kind of dealer attitude is worthy of a lawsuit.

    Keep us posted.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    During the 80's and 90's GM dealerships were famous for "Could not duplicate" as far as identifying warranty work requested by owners. These Toyota dealers are far more sophisticated than their GM equivalents. They actually call their customers liars. Funny thing is they seem to be getting away with it.
  • tsu670tsu670 Member Posts: 293
    edited April 2010
    It may be possible that Andres3's remark was really meant to be facitious, along the lines of how a Toyota dealer would have responded to the complaint.
  • ingvaringvar Member Posts: 205
    Typical Toyota arrogance - if you wasn't able to detect a problem during 15 minutes of test drive, than shut up and drive in AS IS conditions.
    I had a Lexus as a daily driver, but changed it to Subaru and never been more happy than now.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    even with desperate incentives

    Oh, how melodramatic. Nice spin, but explorerx4 got it right the first time when he said "to me it says the playing field is pretty level."

    If you don't agree, please provide hard numbers on how much Toyota is spending to justify the silly "desperate" comment.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    These Toyota dealers are far more sophisticated than their GM equivalents. They actually call their customers liars.

    Really?

    Source? Show us, please.

    I seriously doubt that. They were careful even in the Sikes case not to attack.

    Embellishing a bit, perhaps?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, instead of just fabricating numbers, let's use facts, shall we?

    From Automotive News:

    GM incentives ranked fourth-highest, Docherty said, behind Ford Motor Co., Chrysler Group and "an import competitor." That import automaker was Nissan North America, said two sources who have seen the incentives numbers. J.D. Power's incentive measure is proprietary and not shared with the public.

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100401/RETAIL01/100409982/1- 401#ixzz0kEY0wOts

    The industry average was $2910 per vehicle.

    The top 3 highest incentives came from Ford, Chrysler, and Nissan. Those are the desperate ones.

    GM was 4th.

    So Toyota wasn't even in the top 4 in terms of incentives per vehicle. Before anyone jumps and says they were 5th, use a SOURCE please.

    Who was desperate? Nissan, Chrysler, and Ford.

    You guys have to stop making this stuff up. It's just dishonest.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Every time I test drive a new car, I take it on several types of road: high speed interstate, secondary roads, city streets, and unimproved roads to see what it is like under each condition.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Calm down.

    They already have a recall for this issue. Just let them address it when they get the software fixed.

    Until then, as long as you are not tailgating someone when you are trying to stop on top of a pothole, you are fine.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd rather be told "we couldn't duplicate the problem" than be called a flat-out liar!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2010
    Toyota didn't call anyone a liar (even Sikes).

    It's silly to think otherwise. They'd have nothing to gain from that.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    edited April 2010
    When someone posts real information here it is usually ignored. One poster already said that he owned a lot of Ford stock so, IMO, he was bashing Toyota in hopes it would help Ford's stock price. Incidentally, he actually drives a Toyota.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    houdini1 says, "When someone posts real information here it is usually ignored."

    That's the nature of this format. It lends itself to doubt and disbelief.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2010
    I think in a few cases we can have a healthy and constructive debate.

    The funny thing is the Toyota side is often accused of bias and called names like "Toyota faithful", yet when pushed I showed that it was the "Toyota haters" who were jumping to conclusions.

    Now they're making stuff up about "desperate" incentives when in fact Ford, GM, and Chrysler are all using even more incentives.

    Maybe Toyota should offer bigger incentives to match the "desperate" domestics?

    Chrysler lost 8% of sales in March, and they're in the top 3. I'd say they are the truly desperate ones.

    Ford and GM put more cash on the hood per car than Toyota did, and grew slightly more in Q1, but how would they have done with the same or fewer incentives? :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100401/CARNEWS/100409965

    GM may have spent $3,519 spent per vehicle.

    Who's desperate again? ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    They already have a recall for this issue. Just let them address it when they get the software fixed.

    If that is true, why don't the dealers tell the customers the truth? Why do they continue to act like Toyota is perfect and the customers are just whiners?

    I have experienced that treatment with only one Chevy dealer over a 5 vehicle span. Ironically it was Bob Baker Chevrolet. Right next door to Bob Baker Lexus. The same Lexus dealer that is in hot water over the Saylor crash. I took my PU in because the AC was making a rattling noise I did not like. They gave me the old "that is the way the all are". I took it to Bob Stall Chevrolet and they replaced the AC compressor under warranty. So there are good and bad in all dealerships. Overall I give Toyota dealers I have been involved with a "D".
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, dealers are independently owned. Toyota doesn't control Bob Baker any more than GM does.

    They have franchise rules and agreements, but ultimately the business is owned by Mr. Baker, not the auto manufacturers.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    No desperation, GM does not have to make money. It is Government Motors. They just have to keep the UAW working until the next election.

    The real test is the profit or loss for the quarter. Has Toyota posted earnings yet?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "If that is true..."

    Which part did you doubt? The part about the brakes recall?

    2010 Prius Brake Recall

    FAQs About the 2010 Prius Voluntary Recalls

    1. What is the problem with the 2010 Prius?
    The anti-lock brake system (ABS) in the 2010 model-year Prius, in normal operation, engages and disengages rapidly (many times per second) as the control system senses and reacts to tire slippage. Some owners have reported experiencing inconsistent brake feel during slow and steady application of the brakes on rough or slick road surfaces when the anti-lock brake system (ABS) is activated in an effort to maintain tire traction.
    2. How is Toyota responding to this Prius issue?
    Toyota has responded to owner concerns with a running production change for the 2010 Prius that was introduced last month, improving the ABS system’s response time, as well as the system’s overall sensitivity to tire slippage.

    The recall will allow Toyota dealers to perform this software update in the anti-lock brake systems of 2010 Prius vehicles sold prior to this production change.
    3. Why does this only impact 2010 Prius models?
    First- and second-generation Prius vehicles use a different ABS system and are not involved in this campaign.
    4. How many vehicles are impacted?
    This recall involves approximately 133,000 2010 model year Prius vehicles.
    5. What should 2010 Prius customers do if they experience this braking issue?
    If a Prius owner were to experience this condition, pressing hard on the brake pedal will stop the vehicle safely.
    6. Are these vehicles safe to drive until they get their update?
    The vehicles are safe to drive because pressing hard on the brake pedal will stop the vehicle.
    7. When can I get my vehicle fixed?
    Toyota will begin sending letters to Prius owners included in this recall by mail next week to let them know when to bring their vehicles into a dealership. Owners will only receive a letter if their vehicle is involved in the recall.
    8. How long will it take for a dealer to repair my vehicle?
    The software update should only take approximately 30 minutes to install, depending on technician workflow.
    9. Is the repair covered by warranty? Will drivers have to pay any money out of pocket for this work?
    Toyota will cover all repair costs associated with this work.
    10. Is this recall related to the ongoing Toyota recalls associated with sudden unintended acceleration?
    No, this recall is unrelated to the ongoing recall of Toyota vehicles for sticking gas pedals and floor mat entrapment issues.


    As to your rhetorical question, " why don't the dealers tell the customers the truth?" I think we all know that answer.
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