Toyota on the mend?

1152153155157158319

Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Did you read the ladies complaint? She got the brake recall. And that made it worse. Now when she hits a pothole it surges forward. You got to keep up here. This is a fast moving thread. :blush:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Oh, well I did miss that.

    But that makes her complaint on this forum even.....more a waste of time.

    If she took it in for the recall "fix" and it got worse, HMMM, what to do? HHMMM....

    OH YEAH, HOW ABOUT TAKING IT BACK AND INSISTING ON A CORRECT FIX !!!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That gets us back to the original complaint. The dealer basically saying the customer is full of you know what. At that point she needs to document each incident and contact the media. Toyota does not seem anymore interested in customer relations than before this whole fiasco.

    They may be selling enough cars. They are not taking care of the customers they have.
  • kenymkenym Member Posts: 405
    No desperation, GM does not have to make money. It is Government Motors. They just have to keep the UAW working until the next election.

    Now this is truly a sad post. I pray our society hasn't come down to this point of thinking... :sick:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sad indeed. :sick:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Which takes me back to the complainant:

    If it's a repeatable problem, take a tech on a test drive with you and SHOW THEM.

    I REALLY have no patience for people saying, "I have a repeatable problem and the dealer won't help me."

    JUST.
    SHOW.
    THEM.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You guys crack me up. :)

    I hope no one expected anything but more bloat and waste when the Government took over GM.

    GM has its faithful just like Toyota. They would follow them into the Toilet. Quite Frankly I don't see anything on the market worth wasting my cash on right now. The only reason I cheer for Ford is my own greed tied to my 401k stock.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    You got to keep up here. This is a fast moving thread.

    LMAO
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    These dealers represent Toyota which I will agree will never call anyone a liar to their face. Rather as the owner of the prius stated, "it would make sense for Toyota to solve the problem instead of treating their customers like they are making it all up. "

    So how should one interpret that statement?
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I would interpret that as one person's opinion, certainly not fact !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    After years of dealing with GM dealers, I always insist on a test drive with the tech that was assigned to work on my truck so that the problem was identified. Course at times it took a 20 mile test drive to identify the problem.

    The question remains what to do when the dealer agrees with the symptom but states that all of their cars exhibit the same and that they don't consider it a safety issue. I can see how Toyota would win over a huge portion of new customers with that attitude.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    edited April 2010
    Have you forgotten Toyota's response to the sludge issue. If I recall correctly a whole bunch of Toyota/Lexus owners were called liars. Owners who neglected their service intervals yet wanted Toyota to pickup the tab for a new motor or was it Toyota who specified oil change intervals that were too long for the poorly designed motors?

    What I state here doesn't really matter it's the results of the class action lawsuits that are pending from the Toyota owners who believe that they were called liars that really count. ;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, I have a three pronged approach. First, I attempt to diagnose and fix it and am usually successful. Second, if I am unable to fix or diagnose the problem, I have a trusted local mechanic who 99.9% of the time fixes it right. If the problem is for a feature peculiar to that make and/or a complex hi-tech kind of problem, I take it to the dealer.

    If the car has a problem and is still under warranty, I first go to the dealer and they're pretty good at resolving it. I also buy the shop manual when I purchase a new car. I can catch them in a lie and they can't pull a fast one on me. I still have the shop manual and TSBs for my 1989 Cadillac Brougham.
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2010
    She said she did, and got the same "car operating as intended" BS that she got the first time -- the time before Toy fessed up that there was an issue and ordered (or was ordered to order) a recall.

    No shouting required.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Toyota sales were up nearly 41% last month. So the doomsayers were wrong. Toyota is on a roll! They are steaming full speed ahead.

    These incompetent driver issues were merely a speed bump.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Well, I have a three pronged approach. First, I attempt to diagnose and fix it and am usually successful. Second, if I am unable to fix or diagnose the problem, I have a trusted local mechanic who 99.9% of the time fixes it right. If the problem is for a feature peculiar to that make and/or a complex hi-tech kind of problem, I take it to the dealer.

    If the car has a problem and is still under warranty, I first go to the dealer and they're pretty good at resolving it. I also buy the shop manual when I purchase a new car. I can catch them in a lie and they can't pull a fast one on me. I still have the shop manual and TSBs for my 1989 Cadillac Brougham.


    Wow, I thought all your GM cars were flawless like my parents and families' Toyota's??

    How would you know any kind of approach to fix a GM car? I don't think my Parents ever saw the inside of a Toyota service bay for over a decade.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    You must be running out of material !

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    So Toyota ordered multiple recalls to address "incompetent driver issues"?
  • avucarguyavucarguy Member Posts: 56
    I understand there is a recall on the 2010 Prius for braking issues. The recall should rectify the problem. Some people are never happy with anything. The braking "feel" on the Prius is different than a regular car, this does not make it "unsafe". It took me a few weeks to get use to the braking "feel" om my 07 Prius after I bought it.
    As for bashing Toyota, I believe a few people on this site does have things to gain by bashing Toyota(ex UAW or current UAW workers).Some people just like complaining in general.
    I am sure I probably have GM/Ford/Toyota/Honda? stocks in my 403B plan(for hospital workers) also. I support car companies that I am happy with their products that I owned in the past or currently. Toyota is definitely one of the auto companies I like and support for the good/reliable products they produce. I would definitely buy another Toyota product today if I was in the market for another vehicle.
    As for dealer attitudes, I have to admit, American car dealerships are generally more friendly and try to work with you more. Honda makes good reliable cars, but their dealerships/salespeople are not so good :mad: . The Honda dealerships near me think they are doing you a favor by selling you a Honda at or near MSRP
    .
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    So Toyota ordered multiple recalls to address "incompetent driver issues"?

    Exactly. You got it exactly right. You hit the bullseye. You hit the nail on the head. :P

    Just like Audi had to widen the distance between the gas pedal and brake pedal to deal with incompetent drivers, Toyota needed to tell driver's what they should have already known (don't let foreign objects get in the way of the driver's footwell). Maintain your vehicle and if the gas pedal is sticking have it fixed immediately.

    Common sense and decency has been lost.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If I recall correctly a whole bunch of Toyota/Lexus owners were called liars

    How convenient!

    Make something up and put IIRC in front of it.

    IIRC, you owe me 20 bucks! LOL! :D

    Source please?
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2010
    That's not actually what Toyota has told drivers. In its FAQs regarding the sticking gas pedal issue that you describe in your post, Toyota states as follows: "Due to the materials used, wear and environmental conditions, these surfaces may, over time, begin to stick and release instead of operating smoothly." I'm just a little unclear how driver incompetence factors into Toyota's choice of "materials used," which I assume is encompassed in what Toyoda described in his apology as "pursu[ing] growth over the speed at which we were able to develop our people and our organization."

    Incidentally, Toyota states on its website that "If Toyota determines that a defect exists and decides that the defect is 'related to motor vehicle safety,' per the Safety Act, the company will conduct a safety recall." [March 26 Statement Regarding Safety Recalls and Technical Service Bulletins] The same Statement also indicates that issues that are not safety-related issues (not defects) are addressed through Special Service Campaigns and TSBs. So the fact that Toyota is conducting multiple recalls rather than a SSC or TSB suggests to me that Toyota itself has admitted that its cars have multiple defects that can cause UA.

    One final point: even before all of these issues came to light (and, in particular, before the Sikes incident on which you and others have seized), Toyota acknowledged in internal documents the existence of UA issues on which it was lobbying NHTSA in order to try to save $100 million. No discussion in any of those internal documents -- at least any that I've seen -- to suggest that Toyota at the time believed those issues to be the result of driver incompetence.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I haven't seen those documents, is there a source for those?

    A lot of these little tidbits were leaks to the media that went unverified.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Wow, you mean your parents never changed the oil or the brake pads, the coolants or other fluids? Did they break a lot of taillights and headlights because they failed to follow the instructions on how to change a bulb? Did belts just snap on your parents cars because they became frayed a dry rotted? Talk about extreme abuse. It's only a matter of time before they have trouble with a capital "T!"

    Wait a minute! You said your parents' cars never seen the inside of a TOYOTA service bay. I guess that means they already knew Toyota technicians are incompetent, corrupt, or both. Their 'Yotas probably spent frequent times at independent mechanics. Maybe they kept that a secret from you?
  • cgollihercgolliher Member Posts: 16
    I have attempted to contact Toyota USA without any success. I have attempted to contact the GM at the dealership where I purchased the care without success. I had the recall completed after my car was in the auto body shop to the tune of $6,000.00 due to brake failure. No one seems to care or want to do anything to assist me. My insurance company is going after Toyota, the actually have many claims for the same issue. State Farm actually has a Toyota Claims Dept started. Hmmmmm, does that tell anyone anything. I will never purchase another Toyota, is my first and last. It runs/brakes fine on normal surfaces but is still hit and miss on rural uneven surfaces. good luck to all you Pruis owners. Anyone want a beautiful new, 1800 miles 2010 prius with ALL options avail? Let me know. Make me an offer I can't refuse.
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    I'm thinking primarily of the PowerPoint deck that is widely available on the internet. It is the one in which a Toyota exec. boasts of saving the co. $100MM by foot-dragging and stone-walling with NHTSA. There is an article that goes into some detail on this in the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/18/AR2010031805376.- html. There is also a follow-up Washington Post article describing Toyota TSBs -- dating as far back as 2007 -- explaining how improper installation of floor mats -- not driver incompetence -- could cause UA. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032501342.- html.

    These are neither leaks nor unverified.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Just announced on Fox, U.S. has fined Toyota $16 Million for not reporting defects sooner. No other details.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Should have been at least the $100 million they saved by paying off someone at the NHTSA. Toyota got away with murder again.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks for the source, the Post is local to me yet I hadn't seen that article.

    They definitely stalled, probably themselves trying to figure out what was going on. The sad part is when NHTSA laughed at the Toyota guy who came to discuss the issue, so it seems like even NHTSA wasn't taking it seriously.

    I think this is more incompetence than neglect. Especially to brag about it later. :sick:

    FWIW the article also doesn't mention the floor mat in the Lexus ES was from the wrong model car, an important omission.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    (unfounded conspiracy theory alert)
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    If you look at the PowerPoint deck itself, http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_documents/toyota_presentation.pdf,
    it does not come across as incompetence; it comes across as a deliberate decision to work on NHTSA to avoid having to call a recall. See p. 10 of 10 (p. 16 of the slide deck). Also see the previous page, acknowledging the existence of "sudden acceleration" as a "key safety issue" for "ES/Camry, Tacoma, LS, etc."
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2010
    $16 million is the maximum penalty the NHTSA can seek under current law. (Washington Post).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited April 2010
    Although the proposed civil penalty is the largest permitted, it is small relative to the size of the automaker's business in the United States. Some safety advocates have called for legislation that would raise the financial penalties and criminal sanctions.

    You have to wonder how they came up with that number $16,375,000? It should make it easier for those suing Toyota to get sizable court awards. I would expect State Farm, AAA and the other insurance companies to sue for the millions they have paid out on defective & unsafe Toyota's and Lexus vehicles. Any vehicle in an accident that came under the recall would be suspect having those defects.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,695
    edited April 2010
    Wow. 16,000,000 reasons for toyota-lexus to be concerned. Guess that's a lot of incompetent drivers.

    And that's just for the "sticky pedals" not being reported in a timely manner. They don't even point out the coverup for years of the reported problems that were being reported to toyota-lexus and weren't being documented. They don't point out the twisting of descriptions so that it doesn't wave flags when it did get to NHTSA.

    I can't wait to see what they get fined over the coverup for the 'real' computer problems when it finally gets to the light of day.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,805
    when you a re selling a lot of pickup trucks, there is a lot more room to provide an incentive than a corolla.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    The proposed fine -- Toy. can still try to contest it -- is a drop in the bucket compared to the Transportation Dep't's findings and their potential impact in civil litigation. According to the Washington Post article regarding the proposed fine, "'We now have proof that Toyota failed to live up to its legal obligations,' Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said in a statement. 'Worse yet, they knowingly hid a dangerous defect for months from U.S. officials and did not take action to protect millions of drivers and their families.'"

    "Knowingly hid a dangerous defect for months" and "did not take action to protect millions of drivers and their families." Pretty powerful stuff, and a clear distinction from the Audi situation that someone cited earlier. Regardless whether one thinks the government did not do enough before, one would hope this would put the lie to those who claim that Toy. is being unfairly criticized and that the fault rests entirely with incompetent drivers.
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    The National Labor Committee in Support of Human and Worker Rights, commonly known as the National Labor Committee or the NLC, is a non-profit non-governmental organization. NLC has investigated Toyota, and Toyota has been found to be quite abusive of labor laws and workers health and human rights. Toyota has links to human trafficking in Japan.

    http://www.nlcnet.org/reports?id=0007#Toyota Linked to Human Trafficking
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Legalized slavery is all it is. Got to get those Prius & Lexus built and sold to the suckers in the USA.

    Toyota Linked to Human Trafficking
    Anywhere from 70,519 to 93,000 foreign guest workers are trafficked to Japan each year. The guest workers, who come from China, Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand and Brazil, are stripped of their passports the minute they arrive in Japan. During their first year, guest worker “trainees” are not covered by Japan’s labor or minimum wage laws. As guest workers are allowed to stay for up to three years, this means that at any given time there are at least 212,000 to 279,000 foreign guest workers in Japan—not including those who may have illegally overstayed their visas. The Japanese government is now considering extending the guest worker visas to five years.
  • sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    I just happened to accidently find this human rights group today. And there was Toyota. Also saw Nissan and Honda have some ties as well, but not to the extent Toyota does.

    Worst part is these foreign guest workers have to stay where they are assigned as else they risk deportation. Rent for their tiny apartments is very high, high interest rate loans to pay off their charges.

    Toyota involvement in Burma and the Phillipines is equally shocking.

    Seems like the United States had pressured Japan to correct these violations a few years ago, but practices still persist today in Japan, according to article.

    Shocking, isn't it!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So much is made of our slavery 160 years ago, and it is common place all over the World today. With many of our so called allies and civilized societies.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Hard to believe that Toyota once based their philosophy on Theory Z while GM was based on Theory X. Much has transpired at Toyota where a former employee would no longer recognize the corporation as it is today.

    Back in 1960, Eiji Toyoda recognizing the Toyota's weakness embarked on a goal of total quality control (TQC). This culminated in Toyota being awarded the W. Edward Deming award for the most outstanding improvements in total quality control in 1965. It is unfortunate that the company today forgot what was the backbone of their success.
  • mnfmnf Member Posts: 405
    If you belive that dont forget you also supported them when you purchased your Toyota SHAME on you ;)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    some of the numbers from AP today:

    138 potential class-action lawsuits over falling vehicle values

    nearly 100 personal injury and wrongful death cases in federal courts nationwide

    The government has linked 52 deaths to crashes allegedly caused by accelerator problems in Toyotas.

    (Toyota) has two weeks to accept or contest the ($16.375 million) penalty.


    Do you suppose they will fight it? Could bring a lot of bad press if they do.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100406/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall

    Oh yeah...

    The sticking pedals involved 2.3 million vehicles.

    Dealers have fixed 1.7 million vehicles under recall so far

    Toyota Motor Corp. has recalled more than 6 million vehicles in the U.S., and more than 8 million worldwide, because of acceleration problems in multiple models and braking issues in the Prius hybrid.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Well, you are talking about the laws of a country, not Toyota. Very similar to U.S. illegal immigration where we wink and look the other way in order to get cheap labor from Mexico. The U.S., however gets these workers by the millions, not the thousands like Japan.

    You should be worrying about your own back yard. Now that is truly shocking !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,695
    >You should be worrying about your own back yard.
    >Very similar to U.S. illegal immigration where we wink and look the other way in order to get cheap labor from Mexico

    You need to contact your congressional "representatives" and your presidente about the illegals. I

    >Very similar to U.S. illegal

    I don't think it's similar: are the illegals in the US working assembling automobiles for export?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You know what? You're absolutely right.

    The fine isn't enough, whoever authored those slides should serve jail time.

    With NHTSA laughing when Toyota reps approach them, we can't really trust them, either. :sick:
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Member Posts: 177
    "Legalized slavery is all it is."

    Nonsense. It's not even close. Keep reading on the subject, but find a more reliable web site for your source.

    Slaves don't get to go home when they're ready to leave.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    when you a re selling a lot of pickup trucks, there is a lot more room to provide an incentive than a corolla

    Economies of scale are similar for both makes, since volume is similar.

    Remember, I listed the incentives per vehicle, and all GM vehicles count, even low volume ones.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2010
    You beat me to it, I was going to say "what about the suckers who bought Tundras?" :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think they should fight it. They have to acknowledge the mistake and make sweeping changes.

    The fine is tiny if you think about it.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.