You can check posts 12535,12536 and 12541 where I posted the link about the total cost. The actual head light price is around $130 for a HID -- the labor for installing it raises the price upto $500. You were not specific in stating the cost was $500. $500 for what exactly?? And it was in post 12541 when I posted the actual investigation and recall. :shades:
That was all in response to what I originally posted about the headlight issue. It is not the first time someone has tired to rewrite history. It's just tougher when there is an audit trail. :P
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Yes, it was in response to your post about the head lights. So ?? :confuse:
Thats why I did look up more info on it . And you did not specify that the cost is for a HID headlight, not a regular one. Regards re -writing history - Fact is the Det 3 are indeed trying to do that !! :P
Outgoing President Lula took no crap from anyone. He smoked Cuban cigars with Castro (middle finger to the USA?) and drank "caipirinhas" when he hosted heads of state in Brazil (they're made with moonshine, basically).
So don't expect a warm welcome for US auto brands in Brazil. It's Mercosul vs. NAFTA.
There were a few years when they opened up the doors - when Collor was President, I believe the tax dropped to closer to 40%, and imports flooded the roads. But that didn't last, Collor was impeached (for real, as in he had to leave office), and taxes went back up again.
They don't care much - they produce enough oil and ethanol to buy all the cars they want and more.
Lula is leaving office but his right hand woman (Dilma) will take over, so expect more of the same dismissive attitude towards trade with the USA.
Anyone who cares to go back through the headlight posts will be able to figure the real sequence. I was just some fun about having any influence on some Toyota corporate policy decision.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
His plan to give families who keep their children in school (earning them subsidies) has worked like a charm, though. The economy has been in high gear.
They'll soon be hosting the whole world for the Olympics and the World Cup, two huge opportunities, perhaps a chance for many folks to visit Brazil for the first time. Security is being beefed up, big time.
Back to automobiles, IMHO the biggest growth will still come from A- and B- segment cars. That means Toyota would have a shot if they decide to build the next Yaris there, or maybe the iQ 2-seater, or xA.
Right now the Corolla is their volume car, and in that market it's considered a mid-size, or C-segment car. That and price really limit sales.
Ford can do well with the Ka, Fiesta, and EcoSport (a smaller-than-Escape crossover).
GM? They peddle euro Corsas and Celtas, and some old Blazers. My dad has a diesel Blazer with a manual transmission. Old school.
Fiat sells a ton of small cars, Unos and Palios.
VW also does well with the Gol/Voyage/Parati. That's basically the VW Fox we got here for a little while, imported from Brazil.
Toyota is perceived as a step above those makes, mostly because they don't compete in the "popular" segments.
At 4:20 a.m. on Saturday morning, February 9, 2002—13 hours into his typical 14-hour night shift at the Toyota Prius plant, 30-year-old Kenichi Uchino suddenly collapsed. He was taken to the hospital where, twenty minutes later, he was pronounced dead.
First off the guy must have had a bad heart or something. Working 14 hours a day is not that uncommon. During the building of the Alaska pipeline the standard shift for all workers was 16 hours per day 9 weeks on one week off. That equals 63 days without a day off then you flew home for a week and back for 9 more weeks. This went on for about 6 years while the pipeline was being built across Alaska. Many skipped the week off and would work as much as two years without a break. And these were not wimpy factory jobs. These men and women worked outside in winter temps that would be -40 degrees for months on end.
The man in the article had health issues. If you cannot work 14 hours a day 6 days a week you are not in good shape. I know I have done it many times for as long as 5 weeks without a day off. As far as the union not helping, it would have been the same here. In fact most of the workers on the pipeline were part of the Union's pension plan. Most of the pipeline workers did not get any pension as the job took less than 10 years. Hopefully she found a new healthy husband. During most of the 1970s there were over 75,000 workers doing these tough jobs. The strong survive the weak die. That is nature.
While Castro and Chavez are ruthless dictators, it is hard to knock Brazil's leader when you look at the way Obama slobbered all over Hu this week. Probably a much more refined, still a ruthless dictator.
What I find interesting is both Brazil and China are doing very well in this lousy world economy. We see a lot more about China and their labor issues than Brazil. Is the poverty as bad as it once was in Brazil? I was told by friends that traveled to Rio that the petty crime was such you did not leave the hotel without a local to look out for your welfare. back to Toyota.
Toyota missed the initial surge in both Brazil and China. That leaves them with a small segment of what could be two of the largest markets in the World.
If you do you'll end up taking public transportation.
Are buses and trains all built 100% without slave labor? I think the only two ways you can avoid something built with questionable labor is to walk with no iPod or iPhone. Or find some company that builds 100% handcrafted bikes. I think even bicycles have many parts made in countries with questionable labor practices. That includes right here in the USA. You don't have to look any further than many local restaurants. I have witnessed some pretty serious labor infractions.
Most of the construction workers had a bit more leeway with the drug thing. If you worked directly for an oil company like Exxon or ARCO, the drug testing was stringent and zero tolerance.
By the way I chatted with Rocky the other evening and he said to give you his best. He is working hard long hours doing QC for a office furniture mfg company there in Grand Rapids.
Ben66, reading further into the story tells me a lot about this guy. He was obviously a ladder climber. Going out to dinner and drinks was not just for work. There is also pleasure involved and the work was status seeking. I am not buying the overwork thing. He was a casualty of his own greed and aspirations.
There were also frequent meetings with colleagues outside the factory, often over food and drink. Toyota claims that such meetings—where work is discussed—are freely participated in by the workers, none of whom are under any compulsion. But in reality, young workers hoping to advance through promotions feel they are under pressure and are expected to attend such informal work meetings.
Probably lots of Karaoke singing and dancing went along with those business dinners. While his pretty wife stayed at home with the kids. At least she did not have to work to house and feed them as in the USA.
PS This contradicts the going out for FOOD AND DRINK statement:
Mr. Uchino was just 30 years old when he died from overwork. He had no illnesses and he did not drink or gamble.
I think Toyota supplied the rubber soles of those shoes, built with slave labor of course, by a man who doesn't drink but meets with people over food and drink. Must be Toyota's fault! LOL
If you cannot work 14 hours a day 6 days a week you are not in good shape. I know I have done it many times for as long as 5 weeks without a day off.
Now imagine working 14 hours a day 6 days a week for 2 or 3 years without a day off. Course I don't know how you would work 6 days without a day off of a 7 day work week.
I'm sure you have your limits as well as everyone else or you would've found work on one of those famous crab boats in Alaska!!
No surprise regarding Toyota, but GM was not that far behind with 4 million recalls. Honda with 2.4M, Nissan with 2.1M, and Chrysler with 1.6M were next.
That may not be the discrepancy some thought, when you account for Toyota's volume of sales compared to the smaller brands.
Now imagine working 14 hours a day 6 days a week for 2 or 3 years without a day off. Course I don't know how you would work 6 days without a day off of a 7 day work week.
Yeah, my days as a Playboy photographer were brutal....
A local news earlier this week; a Mercedes was travelling on the wrong direction on the 91 freeway and collided with a Toyota head on. Both driver and passenger in the Toyota were killed while the Mercedes driver was arrested.
It's a sad story. Time and again it always seems that the bad guy survives. But Toyota did not protect the innocent people well enough.
Any mention of the cars? Could've been a Mercedes S-class collided with a Yaris for all we know... Heck, Mercedes smallest car is the C-class which is the size of a Camry. Toyota has a Corolla, Matrix, Yaris... Shoot, could've been a 2010 Merc and a 1996 Toyota...
But Toyota did not protect the innocent people well enough.
Course I don't know how you would work 6 days without a day off of a 7 day work week.
Good point. Ours was a 7 day per week including all holidays. We worked normally 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off. Our standard shift was only 10 hours per day. Most of the overtime up to 16 hours per day was in the Summer months. The company did not like paying triple time after 16 hours in a day. That was part of our contract. The point is, man over the millennia have had to work more than 14 hours per day. While it may be hard on the body, It is far from what the body can withstand. Face it we are getting weaker by the generation. I did not work close to as hard as my father did.
Though I may agree trying to keep up with the defects in Toyota cars on the assembly line could be stressful. :shades:
PS No thanks on being an Alaska fisherman. One of the most dangerous jobs on the planet.
It's a 3170 lbs 1996 Mercedes C220 vs a 3026 lbs 2006 Scion XB. I'd say that they are pretty much in the same weight and size class.
One should always exercise caution when deriving conclusions from a single accident. There are so many factors at play and far, far too many variables to crucify a carmaker over a single incident.
I remember a local accident that happened about a year ago, between a small compact car and a F-series Ford pickup. The pickup driver was killed, and the compact driver walked away with only a few bruises.
Would you say that makes a compact car safer than a Ford full-size pickup?
far too many variables to crucify a carmaker over a single incident
Agreed. In this particular accident, it's much more straight forward. Both cars were traveling in the carpool lane, directly head on. In your example, if the small car hit the Ford pickup from the driver's side at 90 degree angle from where it was travelling, it could explain it.
You mentioned the IQ; got to sit in one yesterday. Seemed nice enough. The Scion rep was a nice guy named Jon who'd been with the company for 5+ years. I asked him why Scion wasn't selling better.
He mentioned the economy, fall in car sales in general but said it really boiled down to them selling well when Scions hit the market some 6 years ago, but they failed to get enough new product changes out the door, and let stuff get long in the tooth. He made a point of mentioning the "all new" tC.
Jon also was concerned about the IQ hitting the market next year for a target price of around $15k. His wife has put him on notice that she wants one, and he gets no discount on cars. :shades:
Oh, my wife liked the sedan better than the new Prius "minivan". Go figure. We both still like the xD a lot.
Try 2415 lbs (Consumer Guide, January 2006, p. 274).
How nice to be able to just make random stuff up!
Is anyone surprised that a luxury car with a substantial 31.3% weight advantage and a long hood acting as a bigger crumple zone fared better in a crash?
Let's see how that Benz would fare against a vehicle 31.3% heavier, that would be a whopping 4162 lbs! Good luck surviving that in the Benz.
I'll check one out if they bring one to the Philly Auto Show.
I test drove a Smart ForTwo but absolutely hated the transmission. That alone was a deal killer. I like the glass roof and tidy size, but it's dumb that a fuel miser required premium fuel. Sales have tanked.
I guess that's the closest competitor for the iQ. In the US the market is limited, but it'll outsell the Smart easily I predict.
If the toyotas are well built and engineered to a T, they should be up to that against the heavier car. That's the safety and quality that people are told they are getting.
Actually if I were going up against a car heavier by 30%, a Mercedes is the one car I'd choose in which to do that.
it's dumb that a fuel miser required premium fuel.
My wife noticed that too about the IQ. She also asked me if I knew that the MINIs too premium. The Smarts had better paint jobs than the IQ on display. Funny how graphics on a little bitty car work better than the airbrushed stuff on conversion vans.
My bad; I googled 2006 Scion XB curb weight, the 3026 lbs came out on top. After reading thru the hits, I found it's for the Scion XB 2008 to 2010. It did gain more than 600 lbs, just a couple of years later, maybe for safety reason...
C'mon Snow - you did not that ! It is supposed to be Toyota's fault if you drive through a rough neighborhood at 2 am and your car is vandalized ! The car sheet metal was weak and should have stopped that impact ! They should have made it solid like a tank . Toyota's fault totally ! :shades: :P
They should have made it solid like a tank . Toyota's fault totally !
Absolutely, they can get in with just a box cutter. Slice out the doors and jerk you out of the car. Then when the realize what a horrible interior it has they feel sorry for ya, :shades: .
Toyota has taken a beating this last 2 years over quality/safety issues no doubt. Albeit, Toyota will survive just fine here in the U.S. market. However, I feel its market share will fall. After consumers visit other showrooms and see what other manufactures are offering many will jump the USS Toyota fleet. Toyota is advertising very heavy in my region trying to get consumers to remember its past reputation, offering maintenance programs, special financing ect.. The damage is done to Toyota. They no longer sit above the rest of the auto makers as they did in the past in the eyes of consumers. The playing field has changed. Toyota and Honda no longer have the quality card all to themselves.
Comments
It is not the first time someone has tired to rewrite history.
It's just tougher when there is an audit trail. :P
Thats why I did look up more info on it . And you did not specify that the cost is for a HID headlight, not a regular one. Regards re -writing history - Fact is the Det 3 are indeed trying to do that !! :P
Bone stock? If so, color me impressed.
Outgoing President Lula took no crap from anyone. He smoked Cuban cigars with Castro (middle finger to the USA?) and drank "caipirinhas" when he hosted heads of state in Brazil (they're made with moonshine, basically).
So don't expect a warm welcome for US auto brands in Brazil. It's Mercosul vs. NAFTA.
There were a few years when they opened up the doors - when Collor was President, I believe the tax dropped to closer to 40%, and imports flooded the roads. But that didn't last, Collor was impeached (for real, as in he had to leave office), and taxes went back up again.
They don't care much - they produce enough oil and ethanol to buy all the cars they want and more.
Lula is leaving office but his right hand woman (Dilma) will take over, so expect more of the same dismissive attitude towards trade with the USA.
I was just some fun about having any influence on some Toyota corporate policy decision.
http://images-2.drive.com.au/2009/10/07/774761/Toyota_FT86_1_600-600x400.jpg
And this
http://www.toyota.com/concept-vehicles/ftev.html
Maybe nice to visit (I haven't yet), dunno if I would want to live there.
Strong economy without casino capitalism...although the other issues might outweigh that.
http://www.nlcnet.org/reports?id=0503
FWIW, I didn't vote for him.
His plan to give families who keep their children in school (earning them subsidies) has worked like a charm, though. The economy has been in high gear.
They'll soon be hosting the whole world for the Olympics and the World Cup, two huge opportunities, perhaps a chance for many folks to visit Brazil for the first time. Security is being beefed up, big time.
Back to automobiles, IMHO the biggest growth will still come from A- and B- segment cars. That means Toyota would have a shot if they decide to build the next Yaris there, or maybe the iQ 2-seater, or xA.
Right now the Corolla is their volume car, and in that market it's considered a mid-size, or C-segment car. That and price really limit sales.
Ford can do well with the Ka, Fiesta, and EcoSport (a smaller-than-Escape crossover).
GM? They peddle euro Corsas and Celtas, and some old Blazers. My dad has a diesel Blazer with a manual transmission. Old school.
Fiat sells a ton of small cars, Unos and Palios.
VW also does well with the Gol/Voyage/Parati. That's basically the VW Fox we got here for a little while, imported from Brazil.
Toyota is perceived as a step above those makes, mostly because they don't compete in the "popular" segments.
First off the guy must have had a bad heart or something. Working 14 hours a day is not that uncommon. During the building of the Alaska pipeline the standard shift for all workers was 16 hours per day 9 weeks on one week off. That equals 63 days without a day off then you flew home for a week and back for 9 more weeks. This went on for about 6 years while the pipeline was being built across Alaska. Many skipped the week off and would work as much as two years without a break. And these were not wimpy factory jobs. These men and women worked outside in winter temps that would be -40 degrees for months on end.
The man in the article had health issues. If you cannot work 14 hours a day 6 days a week you are not in good shape. I know I have done it many times for as long as 5 weeks without a day off. As far as the union not helping, it would have been the same here. In fact most of the workers on the pipeline were part of the Union's pension plan. Most of the pipeline workers did not get any pension as the job took less than 10 years. Hopefully she found a new healthy husband. During most of the 1970s there were over 75,000 workers doing these tough jobs. The strong survive the weak die. That is nature.
Ford
GM
Chrysler
GE
HP
Whirlpool
Fashion Bug
WalMart
Hanes
Macy's
Sears
Alcoa
etc.
It's a global problem.
Slanted reporting?
Ford is also mentioned repeatedly. They share suppliers, we all know that.
Same for Honda.
Hyundai is also in a couple of those stories about Toyota, and a couple of their own as well.
I guess you're going to sell your Honda, Nissan, and Hyundai and start looking for an ethical company to buy cars from?
If you do you'll end up taking public transportation.
What I find interesting is both Brazil and China are doing very well in this lousy world economy. We see a lot more about China and their labor issues than Brazil. Is the poverty as bad as it once was in Brazil? I was told by friends that traveled to Rio that the petty crime was such you did not leave the hotel without a local to look out for your welfare. back to Toyota.
Toyota missed the initial surge in both Brazil and China. That leaves them with a small segment of what could be two of the largest markets in the World.
Are buses and trains all built 100% without slave labor? I think the only two ways you can avoid something built with questionable labor is to walk with no iPod or iPhone. Or find some company that builds 100% handcrafted bikes. I think even bicycles have many parts made in countries with questionable labor practices. That includes right here in the USA. You don't have to look any further than many local restaurants. I have witnessed some pretty serious labor infractions.
By the way I chatted with Rocky the other evening and he said to give you his best. He is working hard long hours doing QC for a office furniture mfg company there in Grand Rapids.
There were also frequent meetings with colleagues outside the factory, often over food and drink. Toyota claims that such meetings—where work is discussed—are freely participated in by the workers, none of whom are under any compulsion. But in reality, young workers hoping to advance through promotions feel they are under pressure and are expected to attend such informal work meetings.
Probably lots of Karaoke singing and dancing went along with those business dinners. While his pretty wife stayed at home with the kids. At least she did not have to work to house and feed them as in the USA.
PS
This contradicts the going out for FOOD AND DRINK statement:
Mr. Uchino was just 30 years old when he died from overwork. He had no illnesses and he did not drink or gamble.
That's why the best selling car has a sub-1000 cc engine, yet they also have the 2nd biggest Ferrari dealership in the world.
Also why Toyota has the gall to ask R$460,000 for an LS. $256 grand!
Toyota missed the initial surge in both Brazil
Yes, but they have a premium image, and are not in a bad position, if they launch the right models.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPW8xmI4w6U
Clearly a case of SUA.
She hit the brakes and NOTHING happened! OMG!
I think Toyota supplied the rubber soles of those shoes, built with slave labor of course, by a man who doesn't drink but meets with people over food and drink. Must be Toyota's fault! LOL
Now imagine working 14 hours a day 6 days a week for 2 or 3 years without a day off. Course I don't know how you would work 6 days without a day off of a 7 day work week.
I'm sure you have your limits as well as everyone else or you would've found work on one of those famous crab boats in Alaska!!
No surprise regarding Toyota, but GM was not that far behind with 4 million recalls. Honda with 2.4M, Nissan with 2.1M, and Chrysler with 1.6M were next.
That may not be the discrepancy some thought, when you account for Toyota's volume of sales compared to the smaller brands.
2004 was still the worst year for recalls, too.
Yeah, my days as a Playboy photographer were brutal....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1FuxGfiAzs
It's a sad story. Time and again it always seems that the bad guy survives. But Toyota did not protect the innocent people well enough.
Any mention of the cars? Could've been a Mercedes S-class collided with a Yaris for all we know... Heck, Mercedes smallest car is the C-class which is the size of a Camry. Toyota has a Corolla, Matrix, Yaris... Shoot, could've been a 2010 Merc and a 1996 Toyota...
But Toyota did not protect the innocent people well enough.
:confuse: How is an accident a fault of Toyotas?
My gosh this hatred is astounding...
Good point. Ours was a 7 day per week including all holidays. We worked normally 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off. Our standard shift was only 10 hours per day. Most of the overtime up to 16 hours per day was in the Summer months. The company did not like paying triple time after 16 hours in a day. That was part of our contract. The point is, man over the millennia have had to work more than 14 hours per day. While it may be hard on the body, It is far from what the body can withstand. Face it we are getting weaker by the generation. I did not work close to as hard as my father did.
Though I may agree trying to keep up with the defects in Toyota cars on the assembly line could be stressful. :shades:
PS
No thanks on being an Alaska fisherman. One of the most dangerous jobs on the planet.
The point is you guys were saying noone came close, and that's not true. Toyota has two and half times as many cars on the road as Nissan.
It's a 3170 lbs 1996 Mercedes C220 vs a 3026 lbs 2006 Scion XB. I'd say that they are pretty much in the same weight and size class.
One should always exercise caution when deriving conclusions from a single accident. There are so many factors at play and far, far too many variables to crucify a carmaker over a single incident.
I remember a local accident that happened about a year ago, between a small compact car and a F-series Ford pickup. The pickup driver was killed, and the compact driver walked away with only a few bruises.
Would you say that makes a compact car safer than a Ford full-size pickup?
Agreed. In this particular accident, it's much more straight forward. Both cars were traveling in the carpool lane, directly head on. In your example, if the small car hit the Ford pickup from the driver's side at 90 degree angle from where it was travelling, it could explain it.
He mentioned the economy, fall in car sales in general but said it really boiled down to them selling well when Scions hit the market some 6 years ago, but they failed to get enough new product changes out the door, and let stuff get long in the tooth. He made a point of mentioning the "all new" tC.
Jon also was concerned about the IQ hitting the market next year for a target price of around $15k. His wife has put him on notice that she wants one, and he gets no discount on cars. :shades:
Oh, my wife liked the sedan better than the new Prius "minivan". Go figure. We both still like the xD a lot.
HA HA HA HA HA
Are you kidding?
You're off by 600+ pounds, buddy!
Try 2415 lbs (Consumer Guide, January 2006, p. 274).
How nice to be able to just make random stuff up!
Is anyone surprised that a luxury car with a substantial 31.3% weight advantage and a long hood acting as a bigger crumple zone fared better in a crash?
Let's see how that Benz would fare against a vehicle 31.3% heavier, that would be a whopping 4162 lbs! Good luck surviving that in the Benz.
I test drove a Smart ForTwo but absolutely hated the transmission. That alone was a deal killer. I like the glass roof and tidy size, but it's dumb that a fuel miser required premium fuel. Sales have tanked.
I guess that's the closest competitor for the iQ. In the US the market is limited, but it'll outsell the Smart easily I predict.
Actually if I were going up against a car heavier by 30%, a Mercedes is the one car I'd choose in which to do that.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My wife noticed that too about the IQ. She also asked me if I knew that the MINIs too premium. The Smarts had better paint jobs than the IQ on display. Funny how graphics on a little bitty car work better than the airbrushed stuff on conversion vans.
Noone expects miracles. Even against a Benz I'd take the 4100+ lbs gorilla. You crash head on and the Benz is moving backwards.
Can't cheat the laws of physics.
My bad; I googled 2006 Scion XB curb weight, the 3026 lbs came out on top. After reading thru the hits, I found it's for the Scion XB 2008 to 2010. It did gain more than 600 lbs, just a couple of years later, maybe for safety reason...
Absolutely, they can get in with just a box cutter. Slice out the doors and jerk you out of the car. Then when the realize what a horrible interior it has they feel sorry for ya, :shades: .